What is needed for a decent WvW Brawler Spec

[Mell.4873]

The only thing I can find in an Immobilization build, why does Ranger not have any brawler builds for group play in WvW, (On a side note Rangers are liable to be kicked from groups because of this).

Most other classes that do have Zerg focus WvW build normally have multiple roles they can fill, like healing, ranged DPS and engagement Melee DPS. Ranger just has Immobilization and that is about it, even the druid doesn't see much play since all it can do is heal people, the Alacrity isn't very useful for a moving Zerg.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Soilder.3607]

They tried with Soulbeast to give us a brawler. Allowing us to merge with the pet eliminates the pet problem in zergs and soulbeast also has a form of hard stability with Dolyak Stance. But it just ended up not being enough to make it better than niche status. Ranger has no viable ranged weapons for use in zergs which is a big problem. All meta damage dealers in zergs have viable forms of ranged damage. Rangers have projectiles, which are unviable in zergs because zergs have near permanent reflects/projectile denial. Immob Soulbeast is most effective in fights that are around 15v15. Once you start reaching 20v20 and above there is just too much cleanse going around for immobs to stick.

 

Druid is statistically one of the best healers and cleansers in WvW, but healing and cleansing alone isn't what makes a healing spec meta. It has to offer other utilities like defensive boons, resurrections, projectile denial, stealth, superspeed, auras etc. Scrapper can heal and cleanse as well as a druid but it gives boons through condi conversion (not as much as it used to due to nerfs), mobile reflects, mobile smoke field, mobile pulsing stealth, mobile pulsing super speed. Druid can't really do any of that. Yea we can grant stealth/superspeed but we do it in a bad way, by leaving CA mode, which means it isn't on demand and leaves you locked out of your healing skills for 10 seconds and have to rebuild astral force. Yea we have a smoke field but it's from a pet so it's unviable. We've got 2 projectile denial fields but one is small and not a bubble (sublime conversion) and the other is from a pet (unviable because pet). Aside from regeneration, Druid gives virtually no defensive boons to allies. No aegis, stab, resistance, vigor is a pet swap trait which means its bad in zergs, and the only group protection we can give is from Glyph of the Stars. The new turtle gives group prot but again it's a pet and dies. Druid can give 25 stacks of might but it comes at the cost of healing reduction and less uptime on CA mode due to the loss of Lingering Light. Glyph of the Stars is a good res in CA mode though I can concede that. Never should've been nerfed to 5 targets in WvW but it is what it is.

 

They gave Druid alacrity (yay!) But they gave it to spirits which are unviable in zergs (boo!). So once again we lose out on our abilities because they are placed on things that can die.

[Abyssisis.3971]

I personally feel that spirits need to be renamed to something else to begin with.

Then our next espec with can be a sort of spirit summoner, focusing on summoning spirit beasts with damage immunity while having its break bar unbroken, pulsing aoe damage to help them inflict damage to moving targets and welding a condi scepter with burns, aoe boon steal and blocks that flip skill into pulsing aoe burns and self barrier.

Utilities should be consecrations with an emphasis on aoe stab, barriers, ground target aoe pulsing burns that removes boons, aoe water field that converts condi into healing and heal skill for aoe pulsing healing and barrier.

We cannot have another melee weapon, the last 2 specs have come out with melee. It’s time for a single handed ranged condi weapon.

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/15/2022 at 1:48 AM, Mell.4873 said:

The only thing I can find in an Immobilization build, why does Ranger not have any brawler builds for group play in WvW, (On a side note Rangers are liable to be kicked from groups because of this).

Most other classes that do have Zerg focus WvW build normally have multiple roles they can fill, like healing, ranged DPS and engagement Melee DPS. Ranger just has Immobilization and that is about it, even the druid doesn't see much play since all it can do is heal people, the Alacrity isn't very useful for a moving Zerg.

for a wvw perspective there are 3 things, each for a diferwnt elite.

Druid needs stab, wich already got on pve so hope it ends up in wvw too, and a way to have spirits work like giros or herald facets, so it can move around, with that druid could find a spot.

Soulbeast is good for a roamer, its like a thief in its burst so not much to upgrade at all.

For untamed, first and foremost PETS pets that share ranger boons without taking them from group, and pets that can stealth at the same time you stealth so you dont get spotted, once both those things are done then you can change more, id make unleash skills permanent, sb auto is an area hit that spreads condis, maybe giving it charges so it can be used 3 times or so would be good, hammer is fine but maybe making all unleash skills create spores, so you can use a condi dmg build with sb on ranged and hammer at melee, filling everything with areas of poison and stuff, untamed has awesome stab and sustain, a shadowstep, cleanse, inmortality, etc, it just lacks a good ranged weapon for area hits and a better condi hammer version, paired with better pets so they dont die in p. 5 secs and are usefull, maybe locking pet in wvw and giving it a cc bar and an unleased effect similar to the untamed one, pet unleased = pet hits harder, pj unleashed= pet resist more dmg.

with that i think a dps untamed could be viable, and if you got spirits to be able to work like giros with a trait you could go ritualist untamed or smth and have fun.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:48 PM, Mell.4873 said:

The only thing I can find in an Immobilization build, why does Ranger not have any brawler builds for group play in WvW, (On a side note Rangers are liable to be kicked from groups because of this).

Most other classes that do have Zerg focus WvW build normally have multiple roles they can fill, like healing, ranged DPS and engagement Melee DPS. Ranger just has Immobilization and that is about it, even the druid doesn't see much play since all it can do is heal people, the Alacrity isn't very useful for a moving Zerg.

Click my signature, click on all videos, watch the Druid guide that says "Barbie" on the thumbnail.

First half explains an spvp build, second half shows/explains a Celestial Druid wvw build.

Celestial Druid is the one in all does everything build you are looking for. It can 1v1, it can 1vX, it can havoc/skirmish, it can zerg, it can command. It's good at everything.

[Mell.4873]

28 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Click my signature, click on all videos, watch the Druid guide that says "Barbie" on the thumbnail.

First half explains an spvp build, second half shows/explains a Celestial Druid wvw build.

Celestial Druid is the one in all does everything build you are looking for. It can 1v1, it can 1vX, it can havoc/skirmish, it can zerg, it can command. It's good at everything.

Thanks for the advice. I'm more looking into Untamed Hammer Brawler but I would like something to swap to like druid when i need it.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

34 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Thanks for the advice. I'm more looking into Untamed Hammer Brawler but I would like something to swap to like druid when i need it.

Untamed is straight bad in WvW, roaming, zerging, it's just bad man.

If you're looking for a good roam or zerg or w/e, Untamed is not the way to go.

100% guarantee you'll find your best results in Soulbeast or Druid for WvW, no matter what it is you want to do.

[Mell.4873]

25 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Untamed is straight bad in WvW, roaming, zerging, it's just bad man.

If you're looking for a good roam or zerg or w/e, Untamed is not the way to go.

100% guarantee you'll find your best results in Soulbeast or Druid for WvW, no matter what it is you want to do.

I saw some good clips with Hammer Zerg pushes using Untamed. Not to mention I'm currently Plat in sPvP using Untamed so I'm sure I can make it work.

Right now for WvW Im a longbow Roamer but I think I could rework is with defensive gear to be a really good Hammer Brawler. I need legendary armor first which I'm very close to getting.

[Zyreva.1078]

Immob soulbeast isn't just there for immobilising, it also has good (melee) burst dmg, hard cc and even a little bit of support. Seems like the closest to what you are looking for.

In WvW Untamed is worse than soulbeast in pretty much every regard. That being said, everything can work in WvW as long you lower your expectations and aren't pushing limits.

[Helly.2597]

For roaming untamed is the best option over druid, core, or soul beast. A lot of takes here saying it's not good or viable, but from my experience running it solo and in 5 mans it brings explosiveness the other specs don't. 

 

Has a better burst combo than soul beast once you know how to land it. And offers projectile reflect, aoe stealth (that's castable while you're cc'ed if you need to), and boon strip. While it certainly takes more micro and gamesense than soul beast, it more than makes up for this with the tools it brings. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Going to agree with Soulbeast as best brawler.  Even running literal brawler (Dagger/Axe + GS)--most people aren't super aware so can go practically glass and get out with just Dolyak and the GS.  I've had some success chasing zergs around with this as easy to take out multiple people off tag at a time.

For general purpose, I think condi/immob Druid is the best bet.  Can't beat staff kiting and celestial shadow + full cleanse trait on every avatar entry/exit is potent.

Untamed is different but no real way to take advantage of Fervent Force without losing a lot of damage.  You need to take storm spirit and can get alac off that too, but the damage won't match soulbeast at all.  Utility is ok with the boon rip and projectile denial, but I find survivability lacking as no easy stealth access without smokescale and nothing to match Dolyak for emergency.

Finally, core is for hipsters only at this point.  I see no reason to take it over Untamed as that extra traitline isn't worth losing all the things that Untamed brings (including full pet control).  

[Zyreva.1078]

11 hours ago, Helly.2597 said:

For roaming untamed is the best option over druid, core, or soul beast. A lot of takes here saying it's not good or viable, but from my experience running it solo and in 5 mans it brings explosiveness the other specs don't. 

 

Has a better burst combo than soul beast once you know how to land it. And offers projectile reflect, aoe stealth (that's castable while you're cc'ed if you need to), and boon strip. While it certainly takes more micro and gamesense than soul beast, it more than makes up for this with the tools it brings. 

Nothing beats a good Prelude Lash into axe 5 combo in terms of setup and aoe burst. And unless you are always running with a bunch of guardians for perma aoe stab, sharing dolyak stance is also big value that untamed can't provide. And when it comes to boon rip, other classes do it better. But the main problem of untamed is that it is reliant on pets - and those can die easily and if they aren't dead yet, they can still get cced, stuck on terrain or be out of position when you need them. Pets simply aren't reliable and no amount of micromanaging is going to change that.

This doesn't mean untamed is unplayable - it is not. Went back to playing it myself recently, and often it works pretty well. Especially solo. But it does have it's limitations, that soulbeast doesn't have to deal with.

Edited August 18, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Mell.4873 @Helly.2597 

Let me explain why Untamed is bad in WvW:

1. Pets die too fast in wvw. Untamed cannot instant revive its pet by going into a merge form in the same way Soulbeast can do.  Druid can afford to use ranged pets like Bristleback in wvw, which stay BACK and avoid 90% of damage which allows Celestial or straight Condi Druid setups to be viable. Untamed on the other hand, needs to run Marksmanship mods and a physical based melee pet to capitalize on those mods to even begin to challenge the usefulness of a Soulbeast or Druid in wvw. These physical based melee pets like this die way too fast in wvw, leaving the Untamed's gimmick disabled each time this happens.
2. Untamed when its pet dies, is nothing more than a Core Ranger with bad condi cleanse. Even normal Core Ranger is bad in wvw. This is mainly due to limitations in mobility.
3. Soulbeasts have a great deal of mobility through GS3 leap and other merged mobility skills like Gazelle F2. Druids also get a great deal of mobility through Staff 3 & CA Kit 10s ICD procing frequent super speed/stealth disengage, and that isn't even counting Druid's blasting Staff 3 & CA Kit 3 onto smoke fields to stack with Celestial Shadow stealth. Core Ranger and Untamed simply do not have enough mobility options for wvw to be able to kite & disengage the kinds of bad outmanned situations that happen often in wvw. Core Rangers & Untamed are the ones who lag behind, get caught, and get rolled over.
4. Untamed's entire big DPS marks mod gimmick is just BAD for wvw. You teleport in for a one-tap but once you get there, you have no way to solidly disengage in the same way a Soulbeast or Druid could, and good luck landing your DPS marks combo before 5 players immediately notice your position and instantly pop you. You're choosing here between 1500 to 1700 ranged AoE Barrage Rapid Fire Sic Em One Wolf Pack high powered one-shot burst that can also do change target many times during RF cast at a completely safe distance on top of Soulbeast level mobility with merge skills for kiting, or aggressive teleportation into the enemy with a single strike one-shot combo that leaves you prone once you land while running a class that has probably less than 75% the mobility disengage of a Soulbeast.
5. And no, before it's brought up, There is no statistical reason even an alternative reason, to run any Power Untamed build that is not using Tele/Maul/TailSwipe combo. <- That combo is the ONLY thing that makes Untamed even viable when set next to Soulbeast or Druid. Without the use of that combo, Untamed is just a Core Ranger with worse stats than a Core Ranger, who happens to have 1x anti projectile bubble. Untamed spec line is not designed for condi either, so just INB4 inquiries about Untamed condi, it's bad compared to other ranger variant condis.
6. Even with zerg builds, the Untamed's spec line & utilities are bringing absolutely nothing to the table for a squad, other than 1x anti-projectile bubble, it isn't worth it. Soulbeast & Druid provide far better options for zerg play or even small skirmish due to the nature of their spec designs.

I highly suggest saving yourself some time and just build a good Druid or Soulbeast if you want some kind of a viable Ranger zerg build. Here are a couple things to consider:

1. Use Stance Share on a Soulbeast while running Anti-Toxin Runes. Use Bear Stance, Dolyak Stance, Protect Me, One Wolf Pack or Entangle for roll-in immob assist, and run Juvenile Siege Turtle. This build will provide a very large amount of additional party condi cleanse that actually heals teammates for the condis it cleanses, as well as yourself. Dolyak Stance will greatly reduce damage taken from both power & condi and it stacks with protection, resolution, and your trait in Soulbeast that reduces condi damage by 33%, as well as any foods you have that reduce condi/power damage. Soulbeast actually has by far the absolute largest amount of damage mitigation out of any Ranger spec, which is ideal for rolling into zergs. Dolyak proves you self Stability, a stun break, and pary stability actually, with leader of pack trait. Protect Me provides a barrier buff, more Protection, and another full party stun break. Having 2x full party stun breaks is very strong when you get used to using this. OWP will grant your party or sub-squad 3 seconds of a large damage buff when rolling in. Don't underestimate this damage buff. OWP can turn a bunch of Minstrel build symbol/well spam into an instant one-burst pit. Then of course Entangle is just classic roll-in assist for catching the stragglers. The Juvenile Siege Turtle has the anti-projectile field that pulses Protection and he can actually survive zerg rolls because he has 57,000 health and massive toughness value. It also has a big AoE CC he uses when he rolls into a zerg, which is nice. When merged, the Turtle grants you a ranged AoE attack that is similar to throwing grenades into the enemy zerg as an Engi. But most importantly, the merged Turtle skills give you a large party heal to use, that is on par with a Druid blasting Staff3 or CA Kit3 onto a water field. Fill in the missing utility for yourself, fill in what stats you want for yourself, fill in the rest of the build for yourself, get creative, but I'm telling you the base build archetype that I pointed out here is going to be far better for a zerg build than anything you could run on Untamed.
2. Celestial Druid is your better bet, for hybrid zerg/roam/skirmish/1v1/commander, which I've already explained. That guide is still there in my sig link if you want and introduction to Celestial Druid. Plenty of other builds you could concoct but Celestial Druid variants are generally the way to go.

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Let me explain why Untamed is bad in WvW:

It's not THAT bad. At least when compared to something like druid, with both specs sharing fairly similar problems actually. But at least untamed can kill stuff without having to hope the enemy can't deal with roots.

Overall your post contains quite some nonsense and even (f)actual misinformation, like siege turtle having 57k hp (it has ~ 30k) or dolyak stance being an aoe stun break (it isn't).

Quote

1. Celestial Druid is your better bet, for hybrid zerg/roam/skirmish/1v1/commander, which I've already explained. That guide is still there in my sig link if you want and introduction to Celestial Druid. Plenty of other builds you could concoct but Celestial Druid variants are generally the way to go.

Just no ...

Edited August 18, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

It's not THAT bad. At least when compared to something like druid, with both specs sharing fairly similar problems actually.

No.

Druid has far greater kiting ability much less aggressive push surprise capability. Druid is good for condi. Druid is god tier vs. condis but can have problems vs physical. Druid is nearly all projectile based and has trouble dealing with Eles and some Mesmers due to very high anti-projectile uptime.

Untamed is great aggressive push surprise, but really bad at disengage. Untamed is great for hard power damage, less so at range but very strong melee. Untamed is garbage tier condi cleanse but is strong when playing into power builds. Untamed is good at killing things with a lot of anti-projectile, that's what its primarily used for in competitive modes, that's its thing. But its ranged capability is 1/3rd or less of a Sic Em Soulbeast.

The two specs are entirely different attribute skews & purposes.

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Overall your post contains quite some nonsense and even (f)actual misinformation, like siege turtle having 57k hp (it has ~ 30k) or dolyak stance being an aoe stun break (it isn't).

No.

screen shot of juvenile siege turtle's 57k health while standing in wvw - https://imgur.com/cXWnRQ2

Read what leader of the pack does - Leader of the Pack - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) - This skill also share full boons and condition removed effect to allies under Leader of the Pack. Dolyak gives Stability to to 5 party members.

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Just no about Cele Druid ...

Everyone says this, but about 12 months worth of my stream footage would show otherwise. Anyone who's sat and watched it would agree, or even just anyone who attempts to 1v1 this build.

The problem with people and Druid, is that they just don't understand it. I've gone over this so many times in my stream it's a meme at this point. Everyone "imagines" Druid is a support and they underestimate it and build/play it ALL wrong.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

screen shot of juvenile siege turtle's 57k health while standing in wvw - https://imgur.com/cXWnRQ2

Read what leader of the pack does - Leader of the Pack - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) - This skill also share full boons and condition removed effect to allies under Leader of the Pack. Dolyak gives Stability to to 5 party members.

How about you start basing your claims on actual gameplay experience instead of tooltips and the wiki?

A look at the turtles actual health bar shows clearly 31k hp and the stunbreak portion of dolyak stance is not shared. Facts.

Also you can stop trying to promote your stream in every single post, everyone knows by know you are streaming (and based on your non existent viewer count - decided it's not worth watching).

Edited August 18, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@UmbraNoctis.1907

You're right, it is actually nerfed in wvw. I didn't realize it was skill split like this. It does have just about 55k health in pve still though.

Why you gotta be nasty man, so hurtful.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Druid has far greater kiting ability much less aggressive push surprise capability. Druid is good for condi. Druid is god tier vs. condis but can have problems vs physical. Druid is nearly all projectile based and has trouble dealing with Eles and some Mesmers due to very high anti-projectile uptime.

Untamed is great aggressive push surprise, but really bad at disengage. Untamed is great for hard power damage, less so at range but very strong melee. Untamed is garbage tier condi cleanse but is strong when playing into power builds. Untamed is good at killing things with a lot of anti-projectile, that's what its primarily used for in competitive modes, that's its thing. But its ranged capability is 1/3rd or less of a Sic Em Soulbeast.

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

It's not THAT bad. At least when compared to something like druid, with both specs sharing fairly similar problems actually. But at least untamed can kill stuff without having to hope the enemy can't deal with roots.

Regardless of the arguing this is very good information.

I do really want to make a highly aggressive Untamed a bit like Hammer Scrapper.
I think with Cantrips + Boon Cleansing + Projectile denial it could work. I guess the main downside is the cooldowns which are very long if blow your skills at the wrong time.

On a side note i have had a lot of success with Longbow + Longbow Untamed (vs Soulbeast). I normally get in a position that i am vulnerable but use the Cantrips to escape especially with super speed applications.
The advantage is the Flat 25% strike damage means my damage was more consistent rather than relying on Sic Em or One Wolf Pack.
The disadvantage was the damage was sometimes not enough to be really effective in a Zerg and I was very slow to react due Barrage cast time. Hence a Hammer + Longbow Untamed (or Axe /Warhorn)

Edited August 18, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Zyreva.1078]

47 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I do really want to make a highly aggressive Untamed a bit like Hammer Scrapper.

For roaming/1vs1 you can try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlZwCZssVmLOeXrR7S+RaA-zVZYBB5HGVs5gCOjelBdrE04AA-w

Fairly tanky and great burst. Downside is that the attacks are slow and telegraphed, so they can be hard to land against good players. As pure melee build without spammable gap closer is is also prone to being kited and it is reliant on landing cc, so high stability uptime on your enemy can be a problem.

I have played something like that for quite a bit at EOD release and it is probably as good as it gets for a hammer build. Gearwise you can mix and match zerk, crusader and dragon stats depending on how tanky you want to be. Avoid marauder, you want to focus on power and ferocity and don't need that much of precision with this type of build. I also had good results with speed rune instead of dura, helps a bit with landing stuff. Zephyrs Speed can be replaced with Beastly Warden, especially when using speed rune (you can trigger your pets's f2 then immediately unleash it mid cast and port it on top of the target to land the taunt pretty consistently).

For zerg play i'd try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlVwaZssVmLO2K3R/SOXaA-zRIYRUxfCacAA-e

Higher and more consistent (aoe) dmg, but squishier (numbers/support should make up for that). You can replace zerk gear with a mix of mara/dragon for more HP. Sigils depend mostly on how much support you get - energy, cleansing, absorbtion, hydromancy are good options.

(on a side note - jacaranda's call lightning ignores LOS and can be used to clear siege on/behind walls as well as finish off that cheeky downed ele that thought mistforming into a tower would save him 😉 )

Edited August 18, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Helly.2597]

33 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

For roaming/1vs1 you can try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlZwCZssVmLOeXrR7S+RaA-zVZYBB5HGVs5gCOjelBdrE04AA-w

Fairly tanky and great burst. Downside is that the attacks are slow and telegraphed, so they can be hard to land against good players. As pure melee build without spammable gap closer is is also prone to being kited and it is reliant on landing cc, so high stability uptime on your enemy can be a problem.

I have played something like that for quite a bit at EOD release and it is probably as good as it gets for a hammer build. Gearwise you can mix and match zerk, crusader and dragon stats depending on how tanky you want to be. Avoid marauder, you want to focus on power and ferocity and don't need that much of precision with this type of build. I also had good results with speed rune instead of dura, helps a bit with landing stuff. Zephyrs Speed can be replaced with Beastly Warden, especially when using speed rune (you can trigger your pets's f2 then immediately unleash it mid cast and port it on top of the target to land the taunt pretty consistently).

For zerg play i'd try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlVwaZssVmLO2K3R/SOXaA-zRIYRUxfCacAA-e

Higher and more consistent (aoe) dmg, but squishier (numbers/support should make up for that). You can replace zerk gear with a mix of mara/dragon for more HP. Sigils depend mostly on how much support you get - energy, cleansing, absorbtion, hydromancy are good options.

(on a side note - jacaranda's call lightning ignores LOS and can be used to clear siege on/behind walls as well as finish off that cheeky downed ele that thought mistforming into a tower would save him 😉 )

 

The roaming build I'm confused by the choice of crusader's. I get you want the ferocity but I'd rather just use zerk or marauders over it tbh. Any particular reason you like crusaders? I'd also consider firework runes, vigor and more might (and boon duration) are always nice to have. 

 

Sigils I'm not a fan of double cleansing but I also take the condi cleanse in untamed trait. I also kinda like severance on GS, but it's a bit of a meme (does result in more mauls over 10k). 

[Mell.4873]

49 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

For roaming/1vs1 you can try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlZwCZssVmLOeXrR7S+RaA-zVZYBB5HGVs5gCOjelBdrE04AA-w

Fairly tanky and great burst. Downside is that the attacks are slow and telegraphed, so they can be hard to land against good players. As pure melee build without spammable gap closer is is also prone to being kited and it is reliant on landing cc, so high stability uptime on your enemy can be a problem.

I have played something like that for quite a bit at EOD release and it is probably as good as it gets for a hammer build. Gearwise you can mix and match zerk, crusader and dragon stats depending on how tanky you want to be. Avoid marauder, you want to focus on power and ferocity and don't need that much of precision with this type of build. I also had good results with speed rune instead of dura, helps a bit with landing stuff. Zephyrs Speed can be replaced with Beastly Warden, especially when using speed rune (you can trigger your pets's f2 then immediately unleash it mid cast and port it on top of the target to land the taunt pretty consistently).

For zerg play i'd try something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAEJlVwaZssVmLO2K3R/SOXaA-zRIYRUxfCacAA-e

Higher and more consistent (aoe) dmg, but squishier (numbers/support should make up for that). You can replace zerk gear with a mix of mara/dragon for more HP. Sigils depend mostly on how much support you get - energy, cleansing, absorbtion, hydromancy are good options.

(on a side note - jacaranda's call lightning ignores LOS and can be used to clear siege on/behind walls as well as finish off that cheeky downed ele that thought mistforming into a tower would save him 😉 )

This new build does coincide with me finally getting legendary armor so I should be fine. I will play around and see what works, I have most of the build template slots unlocked so we shall see what I can come up with. 

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907

You're right, it is actually nerfed in wvw. I didn't realize it was skill split like this. It does have just about 55k health in pve still though.

Every single pet has significantly lower hp in WvW (and PvP) than in PvE since forever. Basic knowledge.

1 hour ago, Helly.2597 said:

 

The roaming build I'm confused by the choice of crusader's. I get you want the ferocity but I'd rather just use zerk or marauders over it tbh. Any particular reason you like crusaders? I'd also consider firework runes, vigor and more might (and boon duration) are always nice to have. 

Full Zerk is viable. But you don't need that much crit chance with a melee remorseless build, because a lot of your burst is guaranteed to crit anyway. So you can trade precision for more tankyness with minimal dmg loss, which allows you to play more agressive and trade hits better. This is also why i would avoid marauder for this particular build - the precision is kinda wasted and toughness + healingpower provide better survivability than hp only (especially when running something like dura rune, which puts you at a decent hp pool already). If you want more hp, i'd rather use dragon stats (for most other builds mara is better than dragon tho, unless critcapped).

Fireworks is ok, but the movement speed is kinda wasted. Pack, air or surging are also solid offensive options.

Quote

Sigils I'm not a fan of double cleansing but I also take the condi cleanse in untamed trait. I also kinda like severance on GS, but it's a bit of a meme (does result in more mauls over 10k). 

With how slow both hammer and gs are, i really like the quickness trait. Which makes cleansing sigil pretty much a must have (+ that sigil is op, almost never a bad choice). Absorbtion sigil is optional ofc, but it really helps against protection in particular (and targets without prot tend to take enough dmg anyway). Nothing more satisfying than stealing like 30 s of prot and 25 stacks of might from some boonbeast, that thought it can facetank you, just to blow it up. It's probably my favourite sigil, i use it on many builds.

Edited August 18, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Arheundel.6451]

Some people like Untamed ..and some don't, but fact is that Untamed is not nearly as bad as some people make it sound, actually most of what they say it's factually untrue, grossly exageration that hold no traction in real discussion and something devs will certainly don't pay attention to. Untamed is not perfect and neither what was wished for EoD but it's still good to use and competitive in the right hands

 

[Project exa.3204]

Soulbeast or druid for WvW. Sic Em Soulbeast is still one of the best for roaming, and druids are better for zergs. I really really wanted untamed to be good in zergs but it just doesn't hold up in a big fight.
-Eros of Ascalon

[Bunny.9834]

Untamed was suppose to be the brawler spec but its so lackluster in the defense department that it melts in zerg fights. 

The devs seems to think Nature Magic is enough for survival but it actually isnt. 

They need to do something about the traits that would significantly increase you and your pet’s survivability in exchange for less damage.