Wintrading at an all time high

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

9 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Wow! Wish I had that kind of money to throw around on meaningless things.

For real. Wintraders are the type to buy and wear designer-brand clothes.

4 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Aw man...so there's an actual price on these things lmao! Interesting...!

A few years ago now though. As with all things; i'm sure those prices have depreciated in value by now, with less people trying.

Tbh because of this boosting and wintrading aren't as common anymore. Even Team USA; from who those transactions were ripped from, most of them have returned to just playing the game normally. Out of boredom; which is worrying, but still that's good in some sense.

All the 'pros' metagame and abuse the matchmaker to get their match manipulation fix these days. You can tell if they're doing this by their winrate because if its anything above 70% on NA then the chances are very high that they're queuing 'inorganically.'

https://www.twitch.tv/notoriousnaru/clip/AverageEphemeralPeanutDeIlluminati-B3l0zsSaqvb_IDAZ

[Bast.7253]

11 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

For real. Wintraders are the type to buy and wear designer-brand clothes.

A few years ago now though. As with all things; i'm sure those prices have depreciated in value by now, with less people trying.

Tbh because of this boosting and wintrading aren't as common anymore. Even Team USA; from who those transactions were ripped from, most of them have returned to just playing the game normally. Out of boredom; which is worrying, but still that's good in some sense.

All the 'pros' metagame and abuse the matchmaker to get their match manipulation fix these days. You can tell if they're doing this by their winrate because if its anything above 70% on NA then the chances are very high that they're queuing 'inorganically.'

https://www.twitch.tv/notoriousnaru/clip/AverageEphemeralPeanutDeIlluminati-B3l0zsSaqvb_IDAZ

Gold 2, barely, and just fought Naru on one of his alt accounts. Duo queued with some specter. Meanwhile the holo on my team seems to be communicating with him and know how he's queuing. 

Funny I go home and suddenly Naru and the specter, are there. Two people on my team switch - contribute nothing most of the match, and it winds up a 600-90 blow out. 

Gotta level dem alts so we can throw later and make dat money! 

The holo said he wasn't duo queued but the specter was with him every second. He may have been solo queued but he timed his queue with a duo - thus why I got a duo on my team. 

It's so ridiculous. Like I just want to reset my rank down to bronze at this point. Maybe I can skip the wintraders and title sellers. Maybe if I just auto attack on a naked staff ele for a few hundred matches. Matchmaking would probably put me on a team full of Team USA for a match or two just to keep me in gold hell.

HA. Just checked the leaderboard and the specter is at 1678 rating. 

Along with Naru's alt. 

You might as well trash that rating algorithm cus it don't do sheet.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Bast.7253

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

26 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

Along with Naru's alt. 

Oh, they's all alts. Homie got caught up. 🚓🚨

 

They'll probably all keep DuoQing so long as its there, but to actually see and compete against that DuoQ already sets it apart from most. Then there's the slightly above average winrate, which I can't point fingers at personally because that's normal.

More concerned with the DuoQs you never see, yet manage to win upwards of 80, 90% of their games played.

DuoQ is the constant though 🧑‍🤝‍🧑👉🚪 Out with that hogwash

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Team USA; from who those transactions were ripped from, most of them have returned to just playing the game normally.

You've said this twice now but I'm not buying it.

Regardless of what they say on their streams, I think you should be much more careful before praising any of these players. These guys are in their mid 20s by now and have probably wised up in realizing they needed to a launch a campaign for image shifting after so many years of obvious cheating & exploitation of the community.

Few things to mention here:

1. Those guys are still reaching & holding the same ratings/rankings they've always obtained through win trading. That doesn't make sense because:
2. There are people out there who are win trading, entire new crews, and no matter how good you truly are, you cannot surpass the players doing this unless you also do it, or possibly:
3. People are still wary of them and queue dodge them. <- This is a very real possibility considering that everyone learned how to win trade from these players. So if they were organically queueing, they are getting easier matches than everyone else due to this. They also know a great deal further into exactly who is it doing it and what alts they use, so their precision in queue dodging bad games is also much higher than yours or mine would be.
4. Even if they are organically queueing, with a bit of queue dodging involved, they are still benefitting massive advantages in their queues because everyone avoids them so they don't get throw games. Also consider the amount of friends & associates they have who are the people who go on massive alt throwing phases to knock people down the leaderboard. I'm sure those people are nice to them, try to avoid them, don't throw games when they are on their teams with those alts, but have absolutely no mercy for you or I. This whole meta game scene is a fine social construct they've built over the years that from the bottom up, functions off desire of avoidance. They've established their dominance in being able to cheat harder than you can cheat, so everyone avoids them and wants to be on their good side instead of their bad side. This is as good as or better of a method of manipulation than direct win trading. I mean seriously, at this point they've exploited this community so much that they could organically queue all day and probably never have to worry about anything competitive ever landing in their games. That's like a transcendent level of match manipulation where you become so notorious for dirty play that everyone avoids you except for the ignorant, and in that case you can play fairly and act like you've cleaned up. I call true bull**** on that right there. That is neither fair nor competitive when their games are full of only the ignorant and my games are full of try hard sweaty veterans and throw mobs.

So yeah, what I've said here is probably fairly accurate and is something they themselves have also realized. It would be easy at this point to "stream clean" so to say, but never forget why they are being allowed to do that. Nothing fair or competitive about it.

I mean if you looked at any of the P2 legit community or even high P1s, if those players suddenly had everything competitive in the community queue dodging them, including win trade crews & throw mobs, those players would also easily rise into the top 10 every single season. It's very true. All you have to do is cheat real hard for about 10 years straight so everyone avoids you.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Grimjack.8130]

idk about you but i definitely am wintrading for a title that i already have and dont use on 99% of my characters this season!

[Kozumi.5816]

3 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

Gold 2, barely, and just fought Naru on one of his alt accounts.

I've personally seen a new player create an account, queue up, and get put against Naru on their first game.

In Warcraft 3, Grubby, the best player in the world, who won every single tournament he participated in, has a lower win rate in 1v1 games on Ladder than people do on our ladder with 5vs5 randoms. That is not how 5vs5 games work, sorry.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You've said this twice now but I'm not buying it.

Regardless of what they say on their streams, I think you should be much more careful before praising any of these players. These guys are in their mid 20s by now and have probably wised up in realizing they needed to a launch a campaign for image shifting after so many years of obvious cheating & exploitation of the community.

Nah you right and I get where you're coming from. I don't want to make it seem like i'm brown-nosing the cartel, moreso just giving praise where its do.

A banned wintrader is good, but a reformed wintrader is sublime and has inside information.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

So yeah, what I've said here is probably fairly accurate and is something they themselves have also realized. It would be easy at this point to "stream clean" so to say, but never forget why they are being allowed to do that. Nothing fair or competitive about it.

Streaming clean is good and all, but yes I agree. When the cartel does it, its about the equivalent of McGruff the crime dog giving a speech to children while taking a long drag between every cue card.

"Don't do wintrading, kids." 🤧

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I mean if you looked at any of the P2 legit community or even high P1s, if those players suddenly had everything competitive in the community queue dodging them, including win trade crews & throw mobs, those players would also easily rise into the top 10 every single season. It's very true. All you have to do is cheat real hard for about 10 years straight so everyone avoids you.

I think you have this the other way around though.

Its not that everyone is afraid to queue with the cheaters, its that they're afraid to queue with everyone else. The P1-P2 legit community you're describing is the peak of Gw2 talent and the cheaters are the bottom of the barrel, dogwater, 0 pr. That's why they have to cheat to win, its because they're all painfully average at this game they try so hard to look good at. 

And by avoiding the actual good players, they do indeed appear to be very good at this game. Its nothing but ego inflation though.

19 minutes ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

idk about you but i definitely am wintrading for a title that i already have and dont use on 99% of my characters this season!

Case in point

[Yerlock.4678]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:34 PM, Bast.7253 said:

Match after match after match of people auto attacking, standing by and observing fights instead of participating, and people just wandering around the map ignoring objectives. 

How do these people have so much money to just sit around, not work, and buy up alt accounts with expansions? I don't get it. Don't you want more out of life? Usually duo queued too. So glad they've been gifted this option to abuse the system. 

Time to farm another 20 gold from one-sided matches while watching the 1001 not-so-subtle tactics employed by the cartel.

Some srs fax being stated here. The late night abuse, wintrading, and ofc paid MAT wins all are a massive stain on this mode. This needs to somehow be addressed otherwise the mode will continue to suffer as cartels push out any competition.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

idk about you but i definitely am wintrading for a title that i already have and dont use on 99% of my characters this season!

It isn't about just having the title.

It's about blocking others from having the title, and larping for relevance on stream.

It's not a mystery and it isn't fooling anyone in 2022.

The win traders can do what they want. I don't even blame them anymore because I understand they are caught in what I've honestly sat back and identified as an unhealthy psychological syndrome, where they become obsessed with petty bull**** and are entirely missing the point of the GG "the good game". More so I blame Arenanet for allowing it to happen.

But regardless, the least the win traders can do if we all have to accept the very literal "****show" they place on all of us, is have the courtesy to keep their mouths shut and not act like it isn't happening. It's condescending & ridiculous in all its debacle.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Its not that everyone is afraid to queue with the cheaters, its that they're afraid to queue with everyone else. The P1-P2 legit community you're describing is the peak of Gw2 talent and the cheaters are the bottom of the barrel,

They certainly aren't bottom of the barrel. They are all good players but realistically they are no better than the legitimate players who organically climb to around 1580 - 1600ish margins. They transcend these margins through many methods of manipulation, which we've already discussed. I don't just mean win trading or direct manipulations like smurfing or queue dodging, I'm also talking general meta gaming, social games, all this stuff that equates to having easier matches. Some of it wouldn't even be considered against any current or previous form of TOS actually, but it still is equating to easier queues and when you get down to it, it is a form of gaming the queue system.

The worst part about all of this, is that when players KNOW they are getting to be as good as "The Gods Of PvP" and start figuring out why they can't break that 1600 threshold and continuously get dropped down into g3 and have to climb back to P2, it never fails, they want to get into those cliques, get recognized, and get those titles. It's like nearly 90% of the players I've seen who get to where they are on a performance level with "The Gods Of PvP" they give in and join the cartel. It's always the same pattern. Some guy who plays around 1550-1600 who starts getting identified as good, one day he breaks off from the rest of the community, stops talking to anyone who isn't a part of isolated win trade cliques, and then he shoots up the leaderboard in 24 hours into the top 10 and remains there. Never again has to worry about the organic nature of the algorithm.

This effects the world of 5man AT queues as well. Because good players are so tempted by all of this, and because 90% of them will drift into cheating to obtain that clout & recognition, the cartel absorbs 90% of the good players who show up in this game. These players will stop queueing with other good players who are not willing to pull dirty tactics to win. It leaves only a small population of legit players left to work with in AT formations who are actually good. And these teams formed around these notorious cheaters will never play with the ones that they know wouldn't keep their mouths shut. This is what happens.

It isn't just win trading. Even in ATs, when these players are actually losing games, on come the hacks. Again, it become obvious after playing against these same players for nearly a decade, that they are generally no better than the legitimate player who is able to obtain 1600 organically. But they will MAKE SURE to make it look like they are. This is truly obnoxious because even though people know they are doing these kinds of things, there is a certain confusion it all bolsters, paired with their streaming presence that causes players to focus on them and/or make deals with them, cross streaming promotion types of things. Then you have these cheaters who appear in highly viewed tournament streams being called the top players/best players, but they only got there by janking all the legit players out of the scene first. Then of course while on highly viewed tournament streams, they play normally.

For those of you who don't play ATs, you probably don't quite identify with what I'm mentioning here. But for those P2 who do, who have noticed this foul "on come the hacks" every time they struggle, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

It's truly disgusting actually. If there were a way to block out all manipulations and all hacks and even all social games, you'd be surprised who the best players in the game actually were.

 

[vilesoldier.9826]

Getting top rank "organically/clean" in a community + matchmaker that's afraid to have competitive matches is not the flex top players think it is.

They put in all that work mastering the gamemode and their classes just to reach a level where they're effectively Gold again (with how much they're matched with actual Gold players)

 

6 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

idk about you but i definitely am wintrading for a title that i already have and dont use on 99% of my characters this season!

 

So I must say, this gotta be the highest ranked Gold player I ever did see, gratz brother 🤠

Edited September 6, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[Grimjack.8130]

very surprising that for years that no team of 1600 rated players have decided to simply not wintrade a monthly at to win the monthly at vs all the other 1600 rated players boosting the wintrade crew(since thats the only reason they can win)! or that certain 1600 rated players get 500-0d in any competitive teapot tournament, i guess teapot must be paying people to get 500-0d on stream since it looks so good and clearly pvp looking dead benefits him

very odd how no one can seem to escape these wintraders, they simply have no limits! even half of them didnt get any bans or dishonor when anet investigated 100 individual players! have they infiltrated anet too?!?!?!

[Tescao.3042]

This is all fine, but we may end up concluding that the environment with self-deception is being destroyed anyway. If death can take everything, how can we say that we can. Birth and death is just another intrigue of the moment.

[Ragnar.4257]

This thread reads like its on a flat-earther forum.

[Tescao.3042]

1 minute ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

This thread reads like its on a flat-earther forum.

But we have the choice to leap beyond birth and death

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

very surprising that for years that no team of 1600 rated players have decided to simply not wintrade a monthly at to win the monthly at vs all the other 1600 rated players boosting the wintrade crew(since thats the only reason they can win)! or that certain 1600 rated players get 500-0d in any competitive teapot tournament, i guess teapot must be paying people to get 500-0d on stream since it looks so good and clearly pvp looking dead benefits him

very odd how no one can seem to escape these wintraders, they simply have no limits! even half of them didnt get any bans or dishonor when anet investigated 100 individual players! have they infiltrated anet too?!?!?!

I already just went over this. But first I want to point out that more people than you may realize, do notice when these players sometimes attempt to actually organically queue. Whether it be on a main or alt, those times when they actually try to organically queue, the max out point is just around 1600 rating. I'm talking when you don't tell anyone you're doing it, you aren't metagaming queues, ect ect. You can sit here and act like this isn't a fact, but I know you must have tried this yourself over the years and we both know it's true.

About this:

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The worst part about all of this, is that when players KNOW they are getting to be as good as "The Gods Of PvP" and start figuring out why they can't break that 1600 threshold and continuously get dropped down into g3 and have to climb back to P2, it never fails, they want to get into those cliques, get recognized, and get those titles. It's like nearly 90% of the players I've seen who get to where they are on a performance level with "The Gods Of PvP" they give in and join the cartel. It's always the same pattern. Some guy who plays around 1550-1600 who starts getting identified as good, one day he breaks off from the rest of the community, stops talking to anyone who isn't a part of isolated win trade cliques, and then he shoots up the leaderboard in 24 hours into the top 10 and remains there. Never again has to worry about the organic nature of the algorithm.

This effects the world of 5man AT queues as well. Because good players are so tempted by all of this, and because 90% of them will drift into cheating to obtain that clout & recognition, the cartel absorbs 90% of the good players who show up in this game. These players will stop queueing with other good players who are not willing to pull dirty tactics to win. It leaves only a small population of legit players left to work with in AT formations who are actually good. And these teams formed around these notorious cheaters will never play with the ones that they know wouldn't keep their mouths shut. This is what happens.

It isn't just win trading. Even in ATs, when these players are actually losing games, on come the hacks. Again, it become obvious after playing against these same players for nearly a decade, that they are generally no better than the legitimate player who is able to obtain 1600 organically. But they will MAKE SURE to make it look like they are. This is truly obnoxious because even though people know they are doing these kinds of things, there is a certain confusion it all bolsters, paired with their streaming presence that causes players to focus on them and/or make deals with them, cross streaming promotion types of things. Then you have these cheaters who appear in highly viewed tournament streams being called the top players/best players, but they only got there by janking all the legit players out of the scene first.

You know it's true. My small stream alone has caught MANY an interesting moments where "on come the hacks" when these teams are indeed losing matches to legitimate 1600 players. I've actually never once seen these players have the maturity to accept a loss actually. And no Grimjack, people aren't stupid after 10 years of playing this game. The use of speed/tele hack is quite obvious to some of us.

And it's true. 90% of players just want to win, no matter how it happens, and they are willing to either cheat to do it or play with the people who will cheat to do it. And as I've pointed out, they rally around the cheat extravaganza crew and wait in line to play with these players instead of queueing with other legitimate 1600 players. This not only leaves an incredibly small population of actual good players to work with in formation against these teams that cheat, but the players that are left are actually not cheating at all. And you and I both know how much it matters in a match of equal skill vs equal skill, to have a boost in mobility for + power. It decides who wins the match. This isn't even to mention the times I've been in matches and almost gotten wins against these players and then the magic DC on my team happens, every time.

Also, those legitimate 1600 players wouldn't cheat because they are representing something more important than winning an MAT. But of course I wouldn't except to you to understand what that is. It's likely you'll never really understand the true grail that comes with competitive gaming.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

This thread reads like its on a flat-earther forum.

This is ridiculous to say considering the nothing but vast exposure to the truth behind what these players have been caught doing for the past 10 years.

The only fLaTeARtHeR bologna being spewed in this thread are the people in here STILL trying to act like this stuff isn't happening.

How much raw recorded video evidence and sheer documentation do you need? How many times do you need to hear the actual voices of these players pleading guilty and explaining how it's done? These people openly talk about this stuff on their streams at this point.

Defending these players in 2022 is just the wrong the side to take, Ragnar.

[Ragnar.4257]

29 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is ridiculous to say considering the nothing but vast exposure to the truth behind what these players have been caught doing for the past 10 years.

The only fLaTeARtHeR bologna being spewed in this thread are the people in here STILL trying to act like this stuff isn't happening.

How much raw recorded video evidence and sheer documentation do you need? How many times do you need to hear the actual voices of these players pleading guilty and explaining how it's done? These people openly talk about this stuff on their streams at this point.

Defending these players in 2022 is just the wrong the side to take, Ragnar.

To be honest, I'm still laughing from this thread on the same subject, where you managed to infer that I'm an alt of Sindrener, on the basis that we both posted in the same thread on the same day. Some people just see conspiracies everywhere. I wonder how many other people in your "confirmed alts" list are as "confirmed" as I am:

On 6/17/2019 at 1:23 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Also, don't you think that this @Ragnar.4257 guy who keeps responding within very short intervals of time of your posts, is interesting? Check out it's total discussions & responses posted. I wonder who this guy is?

Some people aren't so blind, Sindrender. And some people should learn when it is better not to say anything at all.

I'm not saying win-trading never happens. I'm just saying that the assertion that the entire top-100 are all alts in some grand conspiracy, is full tinfoil hat crazy. Anyone who thinks that the reason they're stuck in gold-2 is because of wintrading, and that they could totally win MAT with any random assortment of P1 players, is straight delusional.

14 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The P1-P2 legit community you're describing is the peak of Gw2 talent

😂

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

37 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

To be honest, I'm still laughing from this thread on the same subject, were you managed to infer that I'm an alt of Sindrener, on the basis that we both posted in the same thread on the same day. Some people just see conspiracies everywhere:

Ah yes the obvious cheating cartel must be a conspiracy theory because Boyer may have been wrong calling out a Sind alt, even in light of the profound ridiculously large amount of evidence provided that explains everything, it would make sense that Ragnar throws a comment like this.

I think you are misunderstanding the definition of the word "conspiracy" and the term "conspiracy theory". Let's clear this up:

1. con·spir·a·cy

   [kənˈspirəsē]

   NOUN

   a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful

2. con·spir·a·cy the·o·ry

   [kənˈspirəsē ˈTHiərē, ˈTHirē]

   NOUN

   a belief that some secret but influential organization is responsible for an event or phenomenon

So before any further discussion, understand that what they do is no longer a secret, so it is no longer a conspiracy. It is nothing more than baby **** cheating that everyone sees & identifies, that for whatever reason Arenanet allows to happen.

Also understand that for something to be a "conspiracy theory" it has to be a wild idea that isn't proven or can't be proven. This is certainly not the case here. This is all extremely common knowledge in 2022, what goes in GW2 pvp. It has been exposed, documented, and admitted to by the players themselves. Naru even sits and talks about it on his stream. There are no conspiracy theories in this discussion, just the overview of facts we already know.

37 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I'm not saying win-trading never happens.

Then why are you calling people discussing it flat-earthers?

37 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I'm just saying that the assertion that the entire top-100 are all alts in some grand conspiracy, is full tinfoil hat crazy

No, no one is crazy, you are just either somehow very ignorant on this topic or are purposely throwing propaganda in attempts to distract from the fact. There are some of us who are deep in this community who actually talk to people, who know the players and most of their alts, who can actually straight verify who these alts are. It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players. Trying to argue otherwise is asinine, considering the ridiculous large amount of players who could also verify to you that this is indeed true.

37 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Anyone who thinks that the reason they're stuck in gold-2 is because of wintrading, and that they could totally win MAT with any random assortment of P1 players, is straight delusional.

Nobody said anything about gold 2. Now you're just falling back on embellished insults. I'm not sure if you're trying to poke at me or whoever it was, but if it was me, I had already specifically pointed out that I was playing between rank 30 and 50 this entire season, hovering around 1580 as a solo queue only, doing only organic queues. To note further on that subject, I remember noticing that Phantaram, a world class Elementalist player, was also tapping out at around the same exact rating I was this entire season while he was organic queueing.

Please create further argument around this fact. I would love to hear more logical fallacies to avoid the point made, or possibly if you're up to, some kind of actual argument as to how all of the players in the top 10 are so much mysteriously stronger on a consistent basis than even Phantaram in a meta where elementalist is a top meta.

And no, I didn't say a random assortment of P1 players, I said a random assortment of P2'ish players. I can't tell you how many times I've been in P2 AT teams that almost beat P3/Legend teams, but it never happens because "on come the hacks" every single time. Whether it's obvious use of speed/tele hack or often one of our players DCs out of no where. You can sit here and yada yada speak out about it being a conspiracy ect ect, but NA at least, is full of legitimate P2 players with the same exact story to tell. I'm just the one person who takes the time to well literate it in the forum.

37 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ragnar.4257]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nobody said anything about gold 2. Now you're just falling back on embellished insults. I'm not sure if you're trying to poke at me or whoever it was, but if it was me, I had already specifically pointed out that I was playing between rank 30 and 50 this entire season, hovering around 1580 as a solo queue only, doing only organic queues.

Did they not?

18 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

Gold 2, barely, and just fought Naru on one of his alt accounts. Duo queued with some specter. Meanwhile the holo on my team seems to be communicating with him and know how he's queuing. 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

24 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Then why are you calling people discussing it flat-earthers?

Because the people talking about it, aren't merely noting that it sometimes happens. They are asserting that the majority (see quote below) of players are involved, and that it is apparently affecting nearly every match at ever tier.

24 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players.

There's a big difference between "the government sometimes lies to us", and "moon landings fake, 911 inside job, earth is flat, lizard-people, gay frogs". Like there's a difference between saying "some players win-trade" and "wintrading at an all time high".

Also, Captain Dictionary:

24 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm just the one person who takes the time to well literate it in the forum.

😂

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

20 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Because the people talking about it, aren't merely noting that it sometimes happens. They are asserting that the majority (see quote below) of players are involved, and that it is apparently affecting nearly every match at ever tier.

There's a big difference between "the government sometimes lies to us", and "moon landings fake, 911 inside job, flat earth". Like there's a difference between saying "some players win-trade" and "wintrading at an all time high".

Oh no no no no no, we aren't doing this. Now you're just misrepresenting what I've said. So first, what you mainly are committing in all of your statements here is confirmation bias. What this is, is when you ignore massively identified truths in favor of creating an argument around your own bias. The second thing you did right here in this previous response, was a strawman. You took something I said and misrepresented it on purpose to create an argument around it. All of this is logical fallacy, and it wouldn't be allowed in any legal debate for obvious reasons.

So let's clear this up:

1. I never said anything about it effecting every match at every tier. Do not cross other people's statements with my statements. The only thing I said, is that it was "bad" this season. I did however state that as a P2 player watching my contacts and looking for a clean time to queue in 120 games final week, I could not find any time to guarantee a clean queue, due to the frequency that known win traders are signed online queueing.
2. You then used my quote of "It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players." as some kind of example to your first point that "people are claiming that win trading effects all matches of all tiers", which has absolutely nothing to do with the statements from others about win trading effecting matches in all tiers. When I made that statement, I was clearly only referencing the amounts of alts that are in this community, whether they are win trading or queueing organically, it is a fact. But I find it quite curious that you would look at that statement and mentally associate the presence of so many alt accounts with win trading. This is a very strong freudian slip that provides almost an admittance or secret identified acceptance to the win trading problem at hand, in contrast to your argument that it is all a conspiracy theory. Most people wouldn't notice these kinds of things that people say, but I do. There is no other reason why you would so quickly connect those two things unless you knew what was going on and how it worked.
3. Comparing the moon landing conspiracy to cheaters in a video game, which happens in literally every video game ever, is ridiculous. Completely ridiculous to even provide an argument as if it weren't clearly obviously happening in GW2, happened in every game before it, and will happen in every game after.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ragnar.4257]

10 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Oh no no no no no, we aren't doing this. Now you're just misrepresenting what I've said. So first, what you mainly are committing in all of your statements here is confirmation bias. What this is, is when you ignore massively identifies truths in favor of creating an argument around your own bias. The second thing you did right here in this previous response, was a strawman. You took something I said and misrepresented it on purpose to create an argument around it. All of this is logical fallacy, and it wouldn't be allowed in any legal debate for obvious reasons.

So let's clear this up:

1. I never said anything about it effecting every match at every tier. Do not cross other people's statements with my statements. The only thing I said, is that it was "bad" this season. I did however state that as a P2 player watching my contacts and looking for a clean time to queue in 120 games final week, I could not find any time to guarantee a clean queue, due to the frequency that known win traders are signed online queueing.
2. You then used my quote of "It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players." as some kind of example to your first point that "people are claiming that win trading effects all matches of all tiers", which has absolutely nothing to do with the statements from others about win trading effecting matches in all tiers. When I made that statement, I was clearly only referencing the amounts of alts that are in this community, whether they are win trading or queueing organically, it is a fact. But I find it quite curious that you would look at that statement and mentally associate the presence of so many alt accounts with win trading. This is a very strong freudian slip that provides almost an admittance or secret identified acceptance to the win trading problem at hand, in contrast to your argument that it is all a conspiracy theory. Most people wouldn't notice these kinds of things that people say, but I do.

I know this is going to be hard to process, but my first post in this thread wasn't directed exclusively at you.

When I say "people here are exaggerating about xyz" and then you say "but I never said xyz"...... do you see where the problem may be?

And..... wait, let me get this straight. You use the (alleged) number of alts in the top 100 as evidence of wintrading, and then when I quote you on it, that's somehow "proof" that I'm in on the conspiracy, and switcheroo your argument of "I never said alts were related to wintrading"? Dude, you're way way too far down the rabbit-hole. Why did you bring alts up, in a thread about wintrading, if it apparently requires a "mental association" to associate alts and wintrading?

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Ragnar.4257]

41 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. You then used my quote of "It is a very real thing that the top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players." as some kind of example to your first point that "people are claiming that win trading effects all matches of all tiers"

No, I didn't. You're mis-reading it.

59 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Because the people talking about it, aren't merely noting that it sometimes happens. They are asserting that the majority (see quote below) of players are involved, and that it is apparently affecting nearly every match at ever tier.

I specifically inserted the "see quote below" after the word majority in order to link the quote to the claim of "majority", and not to the rest of the sentence. I quoted you in reference to "majority", given that the claim of " top 100 in at least NA, is probably about only 30 to 40 individual players" is explicitly a claim that majority of top 100 are alts.

Other people in this thread have made claims of win-trading across all tiers. My comment was addressed at their claims, not yours, since this is a thread with multiple posters, not a private conversation.

Since you like quoting the dictionary, I'll leave this:

Definition of narcissistic
: of, relating to, or characterized by narcissism: such as
a: extremely self-centered with an exaggerated sense of self-importance : marked by or characteristic of excessive admiration of or infatuation with oneself

------

To re-iterate. Does wintrading happen? Yes. But not to the extent that various people, including persons other than TrevorBoyer, are claiming.

If you're stuck in gold (and, apparently I have to specify that this isn't directed at Trevor), it's not because win-trading is holding you down.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Tescao.3042]

we like to believe in heaven and hell (a man of faith is a man of expectations), but we cannot understand that even heaven and hell are subject to emptiness and bliss, and emptiness and bliss are two sides of the same coin.

Only bliss can fill the emptiness.