ARC DPS (and all damage meters) are ruining the game

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Can you imagine the requirements without Arc DPS?

Normal Exp Fractal Group:
-Ping Omnipotion or separate infinite pots.
-Ping build.
-Ping food.
-Minimum 15k AP.

CM Groups:
-Ping Ominipotion.
-Ping Build.
-Have x Title.
-Ping Ad Infinitium.
-Have at least Fractal Savant (some groups would probably request God as minimum).
-Minimum 20k AP.

Nope, in no way removing Arc DPS would make things better, it would be 10x times worse for everyone lol.
And that's only for Fractals, imagine Raids and Strikes.
 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Brandon Uzumaki.1524

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

While this degree of specificity is useful for invalidating counter arguments and winning the internet, it also makes your point rather pointless.

 

That 'degree of specificity'  you put it  was quite deliberate as it represents 95% of the content in GW2, should have avoided ad-hominem, but toxic will twist it they want to see it.   

I don't actually know what you are arguing against, that context is not relevant?  Would you demand optimised performance in an open world champion? no ofc not, one of the old dungeons, doubt it.  A raid - ofc yes.   Content type and tuning matters.

Edited September 10, 2022 by vesica tempestas.1563

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

I was very specifically NOT talking about raids or any progressive content for that matter. Again, meters and skill level required depends on context. To bring it into perspective

- Killing a single nps - trivial

- Doing Open works events - trivial

- 5 man Dungeons - trivial

- Fractals normal - easy

- Easy Strikes - easy.

 - All other progressive content, for e.g raids, hard modes etc - requires various skill and experience. 

When someone bangs on about someone 'not being up to snuff' in any of the first 5 then they are being toxic, The vast majority of GW2 is designed very specifically for casual gameplay where tuning is relaxed.  To clarify,  i have no problem with meters in any context, its only where players abuse others under the pretence of 'helping them' in inappropriate contexts that is problematic.

 

 

 

But the person you quoted did talk about Raids, so did OP.

People discuss whether Arc is or isn't ruining Raids/Fractals/Strikes, not open world.

[Bladestrom.6425]

41 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

But the person you quoted did talk about Raids, so did OP.

People discuss whether Arc is or isn't ruining Raids/Fractals/Strikes, not open world.

  This thread is about arcdps in the full game, not just the niche 5% of the game.  My post was relevant to both, but just for you, CONTEXT includes raids.

Edited September 10, 2022 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

  This thread is about arcdps in the full game, not just the niche 5% of the game.  My post was relevant to both, but just for you, CONTEXT includes raids.

Re-read first post of the thread talking about "end game" and meta builds being needed.

If you think there's somehow a widespread (not to say existant at all) issue of "group shaming new players when the group needs 20k dps, but they already deal 40k anyways" (because that was your example, right?) in open world, then tell me where you see that happening. And who even checks your build if it's meta or not?

Edited September 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Re-read first post of the thread talking about "end game" and meta builds being needed.

If you think there's somehow a widespread (not to say existant at all) issue of "group shaming new players when the group needs 20k dps, but they already deal 40k anyways" (because that was your example, right?) in open world, then tell me where you see that happening. And who even checks your build if it's meta or not?

 

i didn't say there was. You seemhell bent on an argument about nothing, I think meters are important in raids, I think Meters are a good tool,.  I think there are scenarios where meters and optimal play is not needed.  I think Anet develops think the same.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

i didn't say there was.

So that was just a mostly useless hypothetical not relating to what's happening in the game? Or am I still misunderstanding something here?

9 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

You seemhell bent on an argument about nothing, I think meters are important in raids, I think Meters are a good tool,. 

Not sure I'm hell bent on an argument here, I think that's the first time I respond to you, was just following the discussion and now I'm pointing out what I see.

9 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

I think there are scenarios where meters and optimal play is not needed.

And did anyone say there aren't? If anything, people fairly consistently point out there isn't the need to play meta and meters don't enforce it in any way -in fact, it does quite the opposite and it does it in every type of content because it doesn't tell anyone "what you play" but tells you "how you play". So I just don't understand what you were responding to with that. Oh well.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Bladestrom.6425]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

So that was just a useless hypothetical not relating to what's happening in the game? Or am I still misunderstanding something here?

Not sure I'm hell bent on an argument here, I think that's the first time I respond to you, was just following the discussion and now I'm pointing out what I see.

ooook then.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So that was just a mostly useless hypothetical not relating to what's happening in the game? Or am I still misunderstanding something here?

Not sure I'm hell bent on an argument here, I think that's the first time I respond to you, was just following the discussion and now I'm pointing out what I see.

And did anyone say there aren't? If anything, people fairly consistently point out there isn't the need to play meta and meters don't enforce it in any way -in fact, it does quite the opposite and it does it in every type of content because it doesn't tell anyone "what you play" but tells you "how you play". So I just don't understand what you were responding to with that. Oh well.

No, you pretty much nailed it.  Seems to be about winning the internet as best I can tell.  Moving on.

[Hiperon Omega.5137]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:48 PM, SolidTx.3249 said:

- prove me wrong

 

-- the biggest issues in end game are balance related

-- there are far more "viable" classes that never get picked in LFG because they arent the snowcrows perfect meta build

-- the community is like lemmings and indexes on the classes that are perceived as making the content the easiest it can be; regardless of truth

-- ARC dps and the like have driven the community to a caustic state - where end game is not friendly to players trying to learn raiding and other end game content like high end fractals

-- if ANET really wanted to make end game more viable for all players - they would not allow any DPS meters - and this would improve end game for most players

-- the above would improve the game overall and the reputation of the community

You are contradicting yourself.

 

Endgame is stupid, because everyone follows snowcrows stupid meta builds, when other classes are valiable.

arcDPS is stupid because because it's unfriendly for now classes.

 

But

arcDPS let's you test other classes, especially on trainings

arcDPS will shut up anyone who will say "your build is invalid because it's not snowcrows meta" - you will show him arcDPS - "I'm doing okey".

 

So

Either snowcrows meta is stupid or arcDPS is stupid, you can't have it other way.

Or both are smart. This way will actually work.

I don't want to argue about "Better" or "worse" content, but I can argue about OP being wrong - he is definitely wrong and contradict himself.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Hiperon Omega.5137 said:

You are contradicting yourself.

 

Endgame is stupid, because everyone follows snowcrows stupid meta builds, when other classes are valiable.

arcDPS is stupid because because it's unfriendly for now classes.

 

But

arcDPS let's you test other classes, especially on trainings

arcDPS will shut up anyone who will say "your build is invalid because it's not snowcrows meta" - you will show him arcDPS - "I'm doing okey".

 

So

Either snowcrows meta is stupid or arcDPS is stupid, you can't have it other way.

Or both are smart. This way will actually work.

I don't want to argue about "Better" or "worse" content, but I can argue about OP being wrong - he is definitely wrong and contradict himself.

True. Similar thing has been pointed multiple times and seeing how OP still didn't make a single response (unless I missed it?), but moved on with another thread, I think we can consider them to be "proven wrong".

[Woof.8246]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

True. Similar thing has been pointed multiple times and seeing how OP still didn't make a single response (unless I missed it?), but moved on with another thread, I think we can consider them to be "proven wrong".

Yeah , not getting traction by the community is a good sign .

We become burned happy about that content

 

The good part is that they are not  scaring new people inc in the community (or word to mouth is the scenario GW2 uses ? I don't know)

Edited October 11, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

ArcDPS nor Snowcrows are a problem.

The problem is those that take these tools to critique and/or attack other players.

ArcDPS can help people get better, make them understand their class and skills and find out what combinations give higher DPS/Healing/etc results - It can also be used in a toxic manner by attacking those with a lower than "wanted" DPS output.

Same goes for Build sites like Snowcrows... They are optimized builds for specific content, but I see them as a baseline or inspiration to make my own build, and modify them to work with my own playstyle and limitations.

Take ArcDPS away and they will look for another way to attack your DPS output.
Take Snowcrows away and they will find another way to attack your build.

Players like that get a one-way ticket to my block list.

My own experience, as a handicapped player (limitations in my hands movement) are double fold. Yes I came across those toxic players... some even disguised as trainers... I also met a lot, I mean a LOT of understanding players that helped me out, thinking with me, friendly advise, helpful ideas on how to make playing easier for me, etc etc. 

They are out there, and they are a mayority. Unfortunately the toxic ones are louder.

[Ashen.2907]

21 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

ArcDPS nor Snowcrows are a problem.

The problem is those that take these tools to critique and/or attack other players.

ArcDPS can help people get better, make them understand their class and skills and find out what combinations give higher DPS/Healing/etc results - It can also be used in a toxic manner by attacking those with a lower than "wanted" DPS output.

Same goes for Build sites like Snowcrows... They are optimized builds for specific content, but I see them as a baseline or inspiration to make my own build, and modify them to work with my own playstyle and limitations.

Take ArcDPS away and they will look for another way to attack your DPS output.
Take Snowcrows away and they will find another way to attack your build.

Players like that get a one-way ticket to my block list.

My own experience, as a handicapped player (limitations in my hands movement) are double fold. Yes I came across those toxic players... some even disguised as trainers... I also met a lot, I mean a LOT of understanding players that helped me out, thinking with me, friendly advise, helpful ideas on how to make playing easier for me, etc etc. 

They are out there, and they are a mayority. Unfortunately the toxic ones are louder.

This.

[Woof.8246]

2 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

ArcDPS nor Snowcrows are a problem.

The problem is those that take these tools to critique and/or attack other players.

ArcDPS can help people get better, make them understand their class and skills and find out what combinations give higher DPS/Healing/etc results - It can also be used in a toxic manner by attacking those with a lower than "wanted" DPS output.

Same goes for Build sites like Snowcrows... They are optimized builds for specific content, but I see them as a baseline or inspiration to make my own build, and modify them to work with my own playstyle and limitations.

Take ArcDPS away and they will look for another way to attack your DPS output.
Take Snowcrows away and they will find another way to attack your build.

Players like that get a one-way ticket to my block list.

My own experience, as a handicapped player (limitations in my hands movement) are double fold. Yes I came across those toxic players... some even disguised as trainers... I also met a lot, I mean a LOT of understanding players that helped me out, thinking with me, friendly advise, helpful ideas on how to make playing easier for me, etc etc. 

They are out there, and they are a mayority. Unfortunately the toxic ones are louder.

There's a solution to every problem , but we have to undentify the cause .

For example people are expected to to use LI builds/increase their dps in the open world ... but for what ? In order to start their own groups /be accepted in Strikes ? Why we must funnel them into Strikes ? They are not going anwhere and they are tied and released along the Living Stories/1-2 world Events .

 

 

 

 

 

Also , the instance group will do strikes and the open world will do open events , so their is not need to "lure each people with specialized/aspirational rewards " .  They are already going to do them/too many apirational rewards exist . We can use the formula with the new stat backpack, where one mode get it faster , while the other 6 months/1year  later , just like in WoW , people can get 415 gearscore sets from the first hardcore raid released , or at the 3rd (9 months later).

 

The less the GW2 community (middle age-play when their kids sleep) intervene with the Hardcore (old school people) , the less friction will be. Ofc , people can "actively" seek each other in other modes , there are already aspirational rewards placed

Edit: Or if we use those those aspirational rewards (Raid/WvW/PvP Legendaries .... PvP and WvW should be speed up with some active play) and is people choose to push a button , it will reset their stats to Greens for that year  and each PvX objective (instance or not ...more for eras yo haven't visited) could earn exp to levelup their stats and each time they level up have a chance for  a Infusion + guarantee 3 gold  . Otherwise people need to push again the button , that restore the stats to the gear  if they have limited time.

It reduces powercreep // expand each person mode they play(faster  exp formodes you haven't visited) // offer increase money or chance for imfusion // how-you-call-it ? You don't plateau with never changing gear ?

Edit2: Having 1x "cheap" Legendary gear + 5x Exotic , it will be a  nice "cheat plan" , or the mundane total  stat in the UI and the will decrease with each level by 1

Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

There's a solution to every problem , but we have to undentify the cause .

For example people are expected to to use LI builds/increase their dps in the open world ... but for what ?

In order to start their own groups /be accepted in Strikes ?

Why we must funnel them into Strikes ? They are not going anwhere and they are tied and released along the Living Stories/1-2 world Events .

 

Also , the instance group will do strikes and the open world will do open events , so their is not need to "lure each people with specialized/aspirational rewards " .  They are already going to do them/too many apirational rewards exist .

We can use the formula with the new stat backpack, where one mode get it faster , while the other 6 months/1year  later , just like in WoW , people can get 415 gearscore sets from the first hardcore raid released , or at the 3rd (9 months later).

 

The less the GW2 community (middle age-play when their kids sleep) intervene with the Hardcore (old school people) , the less friction will be.

Ofc , people can "actively" seek each other in other modes , there are already aspirational rewards placed

Sure, games having difficulty slope, as well as requiring understanding of its mecahnics and systems are so bad!

..no. 

 

Don't want to do something? Then don't. There's plenty of content where you can more or less randomly press your keys after picking random stats and traits and still succeed. If that's what you want, stick to those parts of the game. It's just that simple.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sure, games having difficulty slope, as well as requiring understanding of its mecahnics and systems are so bad!

..no. 

 

Don't want to do something? Then don't. There's plenty of content where you can more or less randomly press your keys after picking random stats and traits and still succeed. If that's what you want, stick to those parts of the game. It's just that simple.

I believe this will benefit you also .

We could have a "period" where each semester we could have 4-Strikes , 2-open world events , 3-personal stories . The majority will gravitate towards the stories-world events and the instance community in Strikes .                                                                                                          The instance community could vote if they are willing to sacrifice some quality from Strikes (not interesting mechanics) , forcing a new Dev to experiment with it  , while the experienced ones will create an OW hard event for them to enjoy . That way more money -resources will be reserved and allowed to be poured in other modes like WvW

Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

I believe this will benefit you also .

We could have a "period" where each semester we could have 4-Strikes , 2-open world events , 3-personal stories . The majority will gravitate towards the stories-world events and the instance community in Strikes .                                                                                                          The instance community could vote if they are willing to sacrifice some quality from Strikes (not interesting mechanics) , forcing a new Dev to experiment with it  , while the experienced ones will create an OW hard event for them to enjoy . That way more money -resources will be reserved and allowed to be poured in other modes like WvW

I'm fine with how it was in eod, so I really don't know what you're talking about right now, how is this relevant to the thread nor how it would be supposed to somehow "benefit me" in any way. I think I need further, more specific and clearly directed explanation.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I'm fine with how it was in eod, so I really don't know what you're talking about right now, how is this relevant to the thread nor how it would be supposed to somehow "benefit me" in any way. I think I need further, more specific and clearly directed explanation.

I mean sacrificing a bit the quality from Strikes , to create another unerfed version of Soo-Won for you to enjoy . While the other 2-3 open world  areas are for the majority of the population

Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

I mean sacrificing a bit the quality from Strikes , to create another unerfed version of Soo-Won for you to enjoy

Why would I want to "sacrifice quality" from any content I play? This is in no way "beneficial" to me, so please stop trying to oversell weird ideas with nicely sounding words. They can just release another version of soo-won for the players to enjoy and not overnerf it.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why would I want to "sacrifice quality" from any content I play? This is in no way "beneficial" to me, so please stop trying to oversell weird ideas with nicely sounding words. They can just release another version of soo-won for the players to enjoy and not overnerf it.

The other dedicated 2-3 OW areas are for the majority to enjoy . 

I don't believe they will sacrifice their resources for another Soo-Won to be created

 

I am saying that sacrificing quality from the 4- Strikes , allow the Devs to create an open-Raid-unerfed-Soo-Won . You can have your 50-60gold per hour (but not locked mount behind it)

Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

The other dedicated 2-3 OW areas are for the majority to enjoy . 

I don't believe they will sacrifice their resources for another Soo-Won to be created

Ok -and I believe they can easly do it. Not exactly talking about overly side-swapping release version, though 😄

10 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

I am saying that sacrificing quality from the 4- Strikes , allow the Devs to create an open-Raid-unerfed-Soo-Won . You can have your 50-60gold per hour (but not locked mount behind it)

And I am saying there's no need for "sacrifice" nor does this would somehow benefit me. Harder content also doesn't somehow automatically make it into a raid, so -again- not sure what this is about. I also still don't see anything wrong with turtle acquisition requiring a strike mission completion.

 

Once again: I don't see how any of this is relevant to this thread though. At this point, you're just roaming from thread to thread repeating the same thing no matter what that thread is about, so this probably won't go anywhere over what you keep repeating and I clearly disagree with.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Woof.8246]

52 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok -and I believe they can easly do it. Not exactly talking about overly side-swapping release version, though 😄

And I am saying there's no need for "sacrifice" nor does this would somehow benefit me. Harder content also doesn't somehow automatically make it into a raid, so -again- not sure what this is about. I also still don't see anything wrong with turtle acquisition requiring a strike mission completion.

We could make it into an OW raid if we would use the phasing technology and limit people to 15 (or people pre-group) , or HoT Dragons End 3 lanes , where the 1st-2nd is dedicated for Raids , or people spawn at different corners of the map and everyone is diverging to the mid .The 3rd- OW , could attack underground at the reveled form of FF10 Anema

 

Edit: After the Lane 1+2 are on the way to the second boss , an new Raid-party that joins the mpa could fight the 1st boss (which has less HP)

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Rendalmj.3152]

I Agree 100% dps meters need to be REMOVED ! From the ggame it is making people toxic i experience this alot doing group content they either be toxic like saying " You are noob please uninstall game !!! " " WTF U doing go play Farmville noob !! "

or they be toxic sarcastic .

 

I know people will say dps meter is will tell you where to improve gameplay or your rotation but no gw2 is not like that. GW2 is chilll game every build and rotation is accepted. This is not Final Fantasia or wowcraft please stop

 

Remove Meters !!!

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I Agree 100% dps meters need to be REMOVED ! From the ggame it is making people toxic i experience this alot doing group content they either be toxic like saying " You are noob please uninstall game !!! " " WTF U doing go play Farmville noob !! "

or they be toxic sarcastic .

 

I know people will say dps meter is will tell you where to improve gameplay or your rotation but no gw2 is not like that. GW2 is chilll game every build and rotation is accepted. This is not Final Fantasia or wowcraft please stop

 

Remove Meters !!!

Clearly it is not start your own group/squads and advertised as chill run and you will be fine.