Pure OW PvE idea for legendary armor

[Caliboom.3218]

9 minutes ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

I think this is a slippery slope. If Anet were to implement the "open world only legendary armor" idea because some players do not like doing WvW, PvP, or Raids, I guarantee you someone will then make a proposal for "Dungeon only legendary armor". Then what about the players that only roleplay in Lion Arch? They might make a proposal for "Roleplay only legendary armor". 

 

What about players that only fish or do jumping puzzles? "Fishing only legendary armor"/"jumping puzzles only legendary armor"

Or how about the players that only play the trading post? "Trading post only legendary armor" where you can just straight up buy the legendary armor with enough gold to gem conversion in the gemstore.

 

Anet has already drawn the line with the current three sets, two of which you can do with no skills or an organized group.

That's a dumb argument, there's instanced content and there's non-instanced content, if OW legendary armor got added, people wouldn't ask for more because we would have one set of armor for each of the main gamemodes. I really doubt people are gonna ask for dungeon-only legendary armor or something.

[Linken.6345]

2 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

That's a dumb argument, there's instanced content and there's non-instanced content, if OW legendary armor got added, people wouldn't ask for more because we would have one set of armor for each of the main gamemodes. I really doubt people are gonna ask for dungeon-only legendary armor or something.

Well we already have 1 set of armor for each mode even before the open world legendary armor is implemented.

So yea pretty sure people would complain for an even narrower view sub section legendary armor implementation over time.

 

[Caliboom.3218]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well we already have 1 set of armor for each mode even before the open world legendary armor is implemented.

So yea pretty sure people would complain for an even narrower view sub section legendary armor implementation over time.

 

Yeah but most players play only OW, so it makes sense to add a set for it as long as it's grindy, expensive, and takes effort and time. Let's not pretend people are gonna start asking for legendary armor for very small and very specific parts of the game, because it wouldn't happen.

[A Hamster.2580]

21 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

That's a dumb argument, there's instanced content and there's non-instanced content, if OW legendary armor got added, people wouldn't ask for more because we would have one set of armor for each of the main gamemodes. I really doubt people are gonna ask for dungeon-only legendary armor or something.

In this forum, I saw someone asking for the Skyscale to be purchasable from the gemstore, someone claiming the "turtle strike" is impossible to beat, and someone saying that steam users are too hardcore and gw2 should not be release on steam. Don't be surprise at how "casual" some players are in this forum. I absolutely can see someone asking for a dungeon only legendary armor. I mostly browse this forum because it is a goldmine of entitlement and casualness to the maximum.

Edited September 15, 2022 by A Hamster.2580

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The incentive to do other content, especially Living World, is exactly what would make legendary armor being obtainable in open-world healthy for the game. Especially if casuals had a serious chance at it, they would flock to these maps non-stop; as each player would finish, another would begin.

LW maps are active though?

2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

But you can't tell that to players who only care about one area of the game mode (raids) and completely disregard the experience of everyone else in PvE.

I don't know where this part came from, but seems rather baseless.

[Kelly.7019]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:46 PM, Solvar.7953 said:

There is often discussions about current dislike for methods of getting legendary armor, and I'm in that same boat.  Raid content does not interest me much (and is not great for casuals), and I just don't have the time to spend 20 hours/week in WvW to get max claim tickets - for the time I do have, it will probably take me 6+ months to get 1 piece of legendary armor from wvw claim tickets.

So here is my idea:

- Each time you complete a world boss event successfully, you get 1 legendary armor token.  Max 5 tokens/day just so someone can't farm for 24 hours/day and get ~100 tokens/day

- With 150 (or some other reasonable) number of tokens, you get a piece of legendary armor.

tldr: um no.

You would still need to assemble all the other mats.

The (open world) tokens should just be 1 part like in lieu of  raid " Legendary Insights" or wvw "skirmish tickets" or pvp "Record of League Participation". The Tokens should be 1 part of still many other things you need to collect.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kelly.7019

[Kelly.7019]

27 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

LW maps are active though?

I don't know where this part came from, but seems rather baseless.

Maps (regardless if they are core tyria or LW) would be more active if there is a reason to be there. It would help bring more old players back to them and new players would see more activity. When ever there are events people flood to certain maps for a limited time. having another options avail for OW players to aquire leg armor would do just that and help bring more activity to lower pop maps. It might be interesting to even rotate which maps you need to farm on a monthly basis (or something) to rotate activity levels for player populations. The reason to be in certain maps would have to be story related but it also could be population control on anets part.

 

the funny thing is i never thought of raids as pve, i always thought of it as instanced content. player vs environment sure, but more like fractal/dungeon ya know instanced content. imo pve meant open world and that is the one area of game that has no way to acquire it.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kelly.7019

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Kelly.7019 said:

Maps (regardless if they are core tyria or LW) would be more active if there is a reason to be there. It would help bring more old players back to them and new players would see more activity. When ever there are events people flood to certain maps for a limited time. having another options avail for OW players to aquire leg armor would do just that and help bring more activity to lower pop maps. It might be interesting to even rotate which maps you need to farm on a monthly basis (or something) to rotate activity levels for player populations. The reason to be in certain maps would have to be story related but it also could be population control on anets part.

There are already reasons to be there and players still being there after all this time seem to prove it. "always can be more" is a pseudo-argument from lack of arguments.

"it would make those maps active!"

-but those maps are already active.

"well, they could be more active!"

Alrighty. Especially when we're talking about "these players who only playing OW" being somehow "dragged into OW maps in bigger numbers" all of the sudden. At this point, adding rewards into the game must somehow multiply the existing players. (and LWs already have time-gated legendary trinkets bound to them btw)

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

, it shouldn't require GoBs. The PvP and raid armor sets don't require it, so why should OW?

By that logic, since PvP and Raid armors require PvP and Raiding so should OW.

[Kelly.7019]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

There are already reasons to be there and players still being there after all this time seem to prove it. "always can be more" is a pseudo-argument from lack of arguments.

Your lack of argument, argument is silly. Maps do indeed slow down over time. players find other areas of the game to focus on, the metas change or have already acquired everything they need from them or timezones! and some maps "feel" dead.  Steam launch is proof of that with an increase to activity levels in maps. You're never going to have 100% of the player base acquire leg armor but like all the other niche content modes, OW seems like another good option.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kelly.7019

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Kelly.7019 said:

Your the lack of argument, argument is silly. Maps do indeed slow down over time. players find other areas of the game to focus on or have already acquired everything they need from them or timezones! and some maps "feel" dead.  Steam launch is proof of that with an increase to activity levels in maps. You're never going to have 100% of the player base acquire leg armor but like all the other niche content modes, OW seems like another good option.

There's more of the post than what you've quoted here. And have you been in those LW maps recently? Because I was and they're still active (and yes, they were still active before steam launch).

[Woof.8246]

16 minutes ago, Kelly.7019 said:

Maps (regardless if they are core tyria or LW) would be more active if there is a reason to be there. It would help bring more old players back to them and new players would see more activity. When ever there are events people flood to certain maps for a limited time. having another options avail for OW players to aquire leg armor would do just that and help bring more activity to lower pop maps. It might be interesting to even rotate which maps you need to farm on a monthly basis (or something) to rotate activity levels for player populations. The reason to be in certain maps would have to be story related but it also could be population control on anets part.

 

the funny thing is i never thought of raids as pve, i always thought of it as instanced content. player vs environment sure, but more like fractal/dungeon ya know instanced content. imo pve meant open world and that is the one area of game that has no way to acquire it.

True , just like Decade Armor , re-vitalized the map of Orr

[Solvar.7953]

I meant to say 20 hours in my last post to get full wvw claim ticket rewards.  Yes, it may be faster depending on the placement of my world in the standings, but I can't really control that.  And also note that the way claim tickets work, playing a single stretch for 3.5 hours will get you more claim tickets than play 30 minutes/day for week (also 3.5 hours) because that first cycle you get no tickets.  Depending on timing, that can be anywhere from 0-5 minutes/day (0-35 minutes/week).  Unlikely to be either extreme.

But if all I'm able to do is complete the wood chest/week, that time to get enough claim tickets is 1+ year.

I'm not asking for OW Legendary armor to be cheap - it can require same mats as in other modes, and could certainly require other aspects (communing at various points in the world) or gift of exploration or whatever to show world mastery.

Idea of needing to do JPs multiple times would keep the mesmers charging for ports happy, but I don't think that is really any measurement of skill there either.  Nor does doing the 'hard' openworld bosses show any skill - it just shows you are able to join the correct organized event (those running triple trouble pretty much always succeed).

And I'm not really saying fast either - supposing I only have time for 2 bosses/day.  If the requirement (replacing LI) is 250 such tokens, I could complete that in 125 days - 4 months is still a long time, but fast enough that I would at least feel I'm making progress.  that is also 62.5 hours of play time.

We could certainly debate numbers - if someone is getting max rewards in WvW, I think someone said ~10 hours gets you max tickets/week (365 tickets),  or 3 weeks of play time = 30 hours.  Twice as fast, so I'm not looking for a shortcut here on speed.  I've actually played some WvW, joined a zerg now and again, and pretty quickly it gets boring.  Kill some things here, move over there, kill some things, repeat 10 times.

Of course, killing 250 bosses is pretty repetitive.  But I don't always log in at the same time (which also makes it harder to do instanced content).  So on a day to day basis, I may end up doing different bosses, so at least get some variety.  Different ways could be added to get these OWLI - maybe legendary bounties?  That is more open to discussion.

I agree I don't need legendary armor.  But really, no one need legendary armor/weapons, infinite gathering tools, or other pretty outfits.  But lots of people want them.  There is a difference between want and need.

If I'm provided an enjoyable path to get something I want, I'll play the game to get it.  If there is nothing left in the game, I'll move to some other game - I'm just offering one way to keep me (and presumably others like me) engaged.  I'm a bit less concerned about the time it takes vs the path being enjoyable.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Solvar.7953

[Solvar.7953]

Of course, Anet can also use legendary armor as a way to get players to play game modes they don't want to play.

That won't work for me.  Maybe it will work for some.  For others, I would imagine it would work temporarily (once they get the reward, they never play that content again).

For some, it may get them to explore content they otherwise would not play - that is a reasonable idea.  But a better way to do that might be to just give some nice reward (complete your first 5 raids, get a chest that is rewarding enough to make players try it).  Putting long term rewards so players play content they don't want to play doesn't seem like a good business move to me.  It seems equally likely that players in such situation just realize "why am I a playing a game I don't enjoy", and then quit and move to something else.  I think one would need to be careful not to alienate players.

I've tried all the different game modes.  OW is what I enjoy, but when it gets to the point there is no goals left for me to achieve in OW, I'll spend my money on another game.

[Silent.6137]

Some of the points against an OpenWorld Legendary:

1. There's already PvE (Raid), PvP and WvW - Would an exclusive OpenWorld take anything away from the currentt 3 methods? How would an extra way to get them negatively impact the current methods?
2. It'll just be too easy, AFK, etc. - So, make it hard enough and encompass all Openworld events i.e. Metas, Explorations, JPs (no shortcuts via mounts, portals, etc.), Instanced Metas ( DS & Marionettes), Strikes & Dungeons (they may be instanced but should be included, imo), etc. Also required a 100% participations to received the tokens (11111 all you want but if you're lying dead for a certain % of the time or extended no actions, no tokens).
3. Players are going to ask for other ways to get Legendary armors - Do we really believe ANet will cave in to all the demands? Especially when the requests are totally ridiculous? How about giving them some credit for knowing what's good for the game.
4. Don't want to play those other game modes, then don't deserve Legendary Armor - Why should it be restrictive? There are those who would not do Raids or WvW for various reasons. Why forced them? Give them an alternative.
5. Legendary armors should be exclusive - Why? To stoke our egos and that we have what the average players doesn't have? Also, if it's supposed to be so exclusive, why have more than one type? Get rid of WvW and PvP Legendary armor. The WvWers and PvPers should learn to Raid. If they don't want to, then they don't deserve them.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Linken.6345]

52 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Some of the points against an OpenWorld Legendary:

1. There's already PvE (Raid), PvP and WvW - Would an exclusive OpenWorld take anything away from the currentt 3 methods? How would an extra way to get them negatively impact the current methods?
2. It'll just be too easy, AFK, etc. - So, make it hard enough and encompass all Openworld events i.e. Metas, Explorations, JPs (no shortcuts via mounts, portals, etc.), Instanced Metas ( DS & Marionettes), Strikes & Dungeons (they may be instanced but should be included, imo), etc. Also required a 100% participations to received the tokens (11111 all you want but if you're lying dead for a certain % of the time or extended no actions, no tokens).
3. Players are going to ask for other ways to get Legendary armors - Do we really believe ANet will cave in to all the demands? Especially when the requests are totally ridiculous? How about giving them some credit for knowing what's good for the game.
4. Don't want to play those other game modes, then don't deserve Legendary Armor - Why should it be restrictive? There are those who would not do Raids or WvW for various reasons. Why forced them? Give them an alternative.
5. Legendary armors should be exclusive - Why? To stoke our egos and that we have what the average players doesn't have? Also, if it's supposed to be so exclusive, why have more than one type? Get rid of WvW and PvP Legendary armor. The WvWers and PvPers should learn to Raid. If they don't want to, then they don't deserse them.

With point 3 you include the totaly ridiculous request that is open world legendary armor aswell I assume?

Have you seen how much people complained about the skyscale and you belive people wont complain if this armor include harder then 1111 things?

[Silent.6137]

12 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

With point 3 you include the totaly ridiculous request that is open world legendary armor aswell I assume?

Have you seen how much people complained about the skyscale and you belive people wont complain if this armor include harder then 1111 things?

Why is OpenWorld Legendary armor ridiculous? It's no more ridiculous than WvW or PvP. If it is ridiculous as you suggested, you don't think Anet is able to discern it? And why are you against it? Because of point #5?

Sure people will complain. It really doesn't matter how good something is, there will always be someone who doesn't like it. If it's ever implemented, then it really doesn't matter if it requires harder than auto-attack. It's for Anet to decide what are the appropriate difficulties.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Silent.6137

[The Boz.2038]

OW legendary with no aspirational components will lead to player numbers decreasing. It will make the game significantly more shallow to allow for the last piece of premium rewards to be available for tagging world bosses. Players that accomplish said armor will never even consider other aspirational content because "why bother, I already got anything the game can offer, it's got no content, bye". And then they're off.
That's my main reason against this.
Then there's the single player no organization component for everything, the "omg this is incredible grind" complaints that are bound to ensue (which leads to even more die-off) from more players suddenly looking at what it takes, and the super-reliable way that the gimmes approach this matter disingenuously every single time, for exclusively selfish motives. Hey, remember any other idea for any other stat-re-select armor being flat out ignored in these threads? Yeah...

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

OW legendary with no aspirational components will lead to player numbers decreasing. It will make the game significantly more shallow to allow for the last piece of premium rewards to be available for tagging world bosses. Players that accomplish said armor will never even consider other aspirational content because "why bother, I already got anything the game can offer, it's got no content, bye". And then they're off.
That's my main reason against this.
Then there's the single player no organization component for everything, the "omg this is incredible grind" complaints that are bound to ensue (which leads to even more die-off) from more players suddenly looking at what it takes, and the super-reliable way that the gimmes approach this matter disingenuously every single time, for exclusively selfish motives. Hey, remember any other idea for any other stat-re-select armor being flat out ignored in these threads? Yeah...

Okay, eleven pages in, it's refreshing to see an actual argument against the idea rather than just the strawman stuff (ignoring the second half of this post, obviously).

 

So it does make sense to say that if you don't have aspirational components, then people will leave because they have nothing to do.  However, it does not make sense to present that as a reason not to introduce long term goals for the majority of the player base.

 

6 months of 10 hour weeks in WvW is not going to be an "aspirational" idea for people who don't like WvW.  A similar amount of time in PvP is going to be even worse (and actively damaging to that game mode, as AFKers there actually hurt the game).

 

So the question becomes, are more people kept in the game by being pushed into raids than leave because they feel like they have nothing to do in PvE.  Or, are more people having fun because they are pushed into raids than they would be if there was additional content added to Open World as long term goals (specifically legendary, because that is the game's headline reward).

 

Obviously I don't have the stats, but I suspect the number of people who were pushed into raids for legendaries (and wouldn't have done them otherwise), then stayed in the game because of that, and wouldn't have stayed in the game if Open World armour existed, is vanishingly small relative to the number of players who would enjoy Open World Legendary Armour.

[Woof.8246]

32 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

OW legendary with no aspirational components will lead to player numbers decreasing. It will make the game significantly more shallow to allow for the last piece of premium rewards to be available for tagging world bosses. Players that accomplish said armor will never even consider other aspirational content because "why bother, I already got anything the game can offer, it's got no content, bye". And then they're off.

This not exactly true , because we already have 3 variations of Legendary Weapons and i believe more will come .

People love to collect cool stuff , either that have  a simple skin or have stats on it . For example "yone" have already the other sets from other modes .

We could create some Legendary Weapon in Raids/WvW for example , next time .

If our worries , is that there won't be a reason to hunt  new stats in the future , then either we follow the currently format were every stat  is  unlocked from the getgo  , or simply all Legendary Gear won't automatically unlock the new expansion's stats , but you must do events >> craft insignia>> apply to Gear>>unlocks permanently).

Legendary Gear is different from simply Skin and we demand whatever time/cost needed , while in the same time there won;t be a need to give more monetary rewards and effect the economy (see Decade Armor)

Edited September 15, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

Yeah but most players play only OW, so it makes sense to add a set for it as long as it's grindy, expensive, and takes effort and time. Let's not pretend people are gonna start asking for legendary armor for very small and very specific parts of the game, because it wouldn't happen.

Alright, they add a new legendary set of armor.

You have to do every world boss meta event achievement to 100% completion and also have every open world meta achievement for all seasons (Upon release o f this armor) to 100% completion.  Have 100% map comp across all pve maps and then you unlock a collection to start farming the unique open world version of Legendary Insights.  By the way, each set still costs about 2k gold in materials and 300 provisioner tokens per  set,

The monkey paw curls  one finger in.

[Xerac.1542]

7 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Alright, they add a new legendary set of armor.

You have to do every world boss meta event achievement to 100% completion and also have every open world meta achievement for all seasons (Upon release o f this armor) to 100% completion.  Have 100% map comp across all pve maps and then you unlock a collection to start farming the unique open world version of Legendary Insights.  By the way, each set still costs about 2k gold in materials and 300 provisioner tokens per  set,

The monkey paw curls  one finger in.

 

Yeah, real nice idea. Especially like the idea of having a prelude achievement to unlock the collection. 

But some meta events take up to 20 minutes and I, as most people, am only able to play 10 minutes per week (usually streched across five or three play sessions) 

So it would be nice to be able to unlock it by maybe hitting farming nodes on Guildhall (or ist this considered instanced content?) too. 

Then farm up tokens by killing world bosses. Also maybe revert the changes to shadow behemoth since it now takes waaaaayyyyy too long to kill and does not line up with my schedule. 

 

Thanks! 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Xerac.1542

[Woof.8246]

9 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Alright, they add a new legendary set of armor.

You have to do every world boss meta event achievement to 100% completion and also have every open world meta achievement for all seasons (Upon release o f this armor) to 100% completion.  Have 100% map comp across all pve maps and then you unlock a collection to start farming the unique open world version of Legendary Insights.  By the way, each set still costs about 2k gold in materials and 300 provisioner tokens per  set,

The monkey paw curls  one finger in.

I don't see the problem .

Thankfully there are Guilds like Triple Trouble and Hardstuck that can organize , most hard events . The gold might be a little issue , but eventually you will collect it

Edited September 15, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, Xerac.1542 said:

 

Yeah, real nice idea. Especially like the idea of having a prelude achievement to unlock the collection. 

But some meta events take up to 20 minutes and I, as most people, am only able to play 10 minutes per week. 

So it would be nice to be able to unlock it by maybe hitting farming nodes on Guildhall (or ist this considered instanced content?) too. 

Then farm up tokens by killing world bosses. Also maybe revert the changes to shadow behemoth since it now takes waaaaayyyyy too long to kill and does not line up with my schedule. 

 

Thanks! 

Unfortunately there can't be any further changes.  If your schedule can't line up with this, there's always other games.

I recommend mobile afk games.

[Silent.6137]

35 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

OW legendary with no aspirational components will lead to player numbers decreasing.
That's my main reason against this.

Then there's the single player no organization component for everything, the "omg this is incredible grind" complaints that are bound to ensue (which leads to even more die-off) from more players suddenly looking at what it takes

If anything, it'll increase the number because getting these items will demand more of their time to focus on this. The other things they would normally do will still be there and needs to be done. If they had enjoy the game contents, they would not suddenly dislike them because they now have legendary armors. Legendary armors are nothing more than QoL but something which majority will aspire to.

As for players leaving because of the grind involved, hmmmm....is that any different from what we have now? That statement of yours is a major head-scratcher. Wouldn't they have quit already since the present armor system requires lots of grind?