Humble Request for upcoming PvP patch: Please End DuoQ

[Sahne.6950]

8 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I come home from work, I have like 1 to 2 hours to spend on the game... LETS WAIT FOR THE GAME TO START FOR HALF AN HOUR! Hey it was a onesided boring stomp, but if I skip on some sleep, I HAVE TIME FOR ANOTHER!
 

And there we have it: sacrificing matchquality for the average player, so the top% will have shorter Q´s. I am also at platin 2 and i would not mind 15 minute Queues, if it greatly improves the experience for all of us.

I also highly doubt that we will see 30 minute Queues.

 

Lets say if you reach 1500 Rating, you will enter Elite Queues. So every player that is plat and above will play together. In a perfect world that is how it should be anyways. If you are Queueing as a p2.. "i assume that you are somewhere around that"...... You should only meet platin players anyways. But as soon as your hitting a queue of 2 minutes or something the matchmaker also allows mid gold players in your game.... AAAAAANNNNNDDDDD its a landslide....

The "Elite-Queues" idea only prevents the matchmaker from widening the skillrange "too low". Thats how it should be all along. I am pretty confident that we will not see significantly longer Queues during the day, and in offhours it prevents those weird games where you and your platinum Duo partner are suddenly facing low golds, altho you two are just short off p3. It prevents any platin and legendary players to go up against gold and lower, and the other way around. Now we disable DuoQ in "Elite-Queues" and we screwed over the "offhour wintrading Cartel" BIG TIME! Queueing with a silver alt? NOT POSSIBLE ANYMORE. in my humble opinion it would eradicate alot of the ways that people are cheesing the system right now. Tanking with your alt accounts is suddenly of no use anymore, because you cant Queue together with your main anyways... you see where i am going with this?

 

i mean... i totally understand what your saying. And i always enjoy your highquality comedical posts here, but i really doubt that we are seeing 30 minute Queues during the day....  If you are playing at 5 in the morning... maybe.... but that is also true for the majority of other games.

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Avatar.3568]

7 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

May as well run through the entire script, right?

 

That's very good for you then, you already have your way to queue.

Would a separate SoloQ; free from all the bull kitten, be too much to ask for?

 

And now this is the part where you say the population is too low for me to queue the way I want, yes?

There should be an alternative, but the Population is to Low to fill 1q already for balanced Matches.

I would personaly Love a solo q and Team q seperated, but i am Hardly convinced that we don't have enaugh Players, why i prefer a Mixed 1-5q. Yes i know Solos are afraid of "getting stomped" by full Teams, but the Matches are onesided already in lower Rated matches, people Just try to find another excuse for Beeing defeated.

Heroes of the storm merged their q's a while ago, and even after Blizzard didnt Patch a year and stopped the Support of the Game. You will find matches in every ELO in less than 30 Seconds.

Why? Because people can Play With their Friends and stay at the game

[Bazsi.2734]

9 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

And there we have it: sacrificing matchquality for the average player, so the top% will have shorter Q´s. I am also at platin 2 and i would not mind 15 minute Queues, if it greatly improves the experience for all of us.

I also highly doubt that we will see 30 minute Queues.

 

Lets say if you reach 1500 Rating, you will enter Elite Queues. So every player that is plat and above will play together. In a perfect world that is how it should be anyways. If you are Queueing as a p2.. "i assume that you are somewhere around that"...... You should only meet platin players anyways. But as soon as your hitting a queue of 2 minutes or something the matchmaker also allows mid gold players in your game.... AAAAAANNNNNDDDDD its a landslide....

The "Elite-Queues" idea only prevents the matchmaker from widening the skillrange "too low". Thats how it should be all along. I am pretty confident that we will not see significantly longer Queues during the day, and in offhours it prevents those weird games where you and your platinum Duo partner are suddenly facing low golds, altho you two are just short off p3. It prevents any platin and legendary players to go up against gold and lower, and the other way around. Now we disable DuoQ in "Elite-Queues" and we screwed over the "offhour wintrading Cartel" BIG TIME! Queueing with a silver alt? NOT POSSIBLE ANYMORE. in my humble opinion it would eradicate alot of the ways that people are cheesing the system right now. Tanking with your alt accounts is suddenly of no use anymore, because you cant Queue together with your main anyways... you see where i am going with this?

 

i mean... i totally understand what your saying. And i always enjoy your highquality comedical posts here, but i really doubt that we are seeing 30 minute Queues during the day....  If you are playing at 5 in the morning... maybe.... but that is also true for the majority of other games.

 

Average play? Me? Man I wish.
I have way too many hours played, too many top titles etc. to qualify. If I was only average maybe I could still enjoy the game.

 

Anyway a burnt out veteran like me does not have a patience for waiting(I stopped doing any other activity in this game that requires me to wait 5+ mintes), but this also goes for new players, aswell as your average player. Logging in just to stare at the screen for 15 mintes, unable to change maps/activities, alt-tabbing or going afk for a minute only to miss the q-pop... miss me with that sh*t.
So you get way less people q-ing, and that offsets the improvement you'd hope to get from longer queues. If you have a solution that requires the average playerbase to change their ways, you do not actually have a solution.

 

It's either short queues or nothing.

[Kozumi.5816]

Not being able to play a MMO with friends is bad.

Keep duo Q, devote resources to your game modes and moderate them. You could blindly perma ban the top 20 every season and you'd probably ban 1 or 2 innocent players max.

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Not being able to play a MMO with friends is bad.

Keep duo Q, devote resources to your game modes and moderate them. You could blindly perma ban the top 20 every season and you'd probably ban 1 or 2 innocent players max.

You have endless ways to play with friends in this MMO though. Ranked is literally the only gamemode where you cannot take 4+ friends with you. Just as having a 2man premade in 3v3, having 2man premades in 5v5 is dumb. It doesn't let you play with FRIENDS(imagine, some people have multipe of those), it makes wintrading easy, and it's impossible to get matches if everyone teams up. Someone has to be  the one with the worse winrate, a loser who goes in alone... because you aren't making 5man teams out of 2man premades.
Anyone defending duoQ is either self reporting, or the "opinion" of those who haven't really thought about it. I have yet to hear an actual good argument that made me think... what arguments people put on the table are just making them look sus. You can wintrade without ending up in the top 20 you know?

Edited September 16, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

16 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

There should be an alternative, but the Population is to Low to fill 1q already for balanced Matches.

Crazy that I was able to predict that. 

16 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

I would personaly Love a solo q and Team q seperated, but i am Hardly convinced that we don't have enaugh Players, why i prefer a Mixed 1-5q. Yes i know Solos are afraid of "getting stomped" by full Teams, but the Matches are onesided already in lower Rated matches, people Just try to find another excuse for Beeing defeated.

Not enough players. What another funee joke.

Here's good ol' Ben P's take on the subject:

"@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: The problem with splitting the queue is that our data doesn't show that 2 separate queues for ranked would work. To put things in perspective, 92% someone queues it's queuing solo. The team queue would have horrendous wait times. And when a match finally popped, difference in team skill would likely be rage inducing."

 

Its not the Solos that are the problem, they make up upwards of 90% of whatever population remains for this game. The huge divide you're thinking of in your head is more like a 9-1 split in favor of SoloQ.

The low population excuse is the oldest and dumbest in the book, and it doesn't work here. Teams in sPvP; just like in every other game out there, don't want to fight other teams, they want to turn their brains off and stomp noobs and SoloQs that play at a clear disadvantage and make up the strong majority of the population. This is not a solution or a sustainable model for growth, this is a consistent drain on the population, especially at the plat level where it becomes DuoQ to win. That is not a luxury everyone has either, especially in a 5v5 game where teams cannot be evenly grouped by 2.

16 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Heroes of the storm merged their q's a while ago, and even after Blizzard didnt Patch a year and stopped the Support of the Game. You will find matches in every ELO in less than 30 Seconds.

And HotS is a trash game, go figure. Rather than pointing at a dying clown show like that, one could just as easily site much more successful games that don't merge their queues.

A merged queue will indeed make your queues pop faster, but it isn't going to make your game competitively viable, its also very likely to make the quality of those matches dogwater.

A solos button is a simple feature that goes a long way in player retention, even with games like sPvP that are restricted to basically 1 gamemode. With the addition of a true SoloQ, that's already 2 very different ways to play the same thing. 

16 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Why? Because people can Play With their Friends and stay at the game

Ye gods, have mercy. I just ate and if I hear this excuse one more time i'll surely lose it all. 🤢

[greedywholesome.9081]

11 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Average play? Me? Man I wish.
I have way too many hours played, too many top titles etc. to qualify. If I was only average maybe I could still enjoy the game.

 

LOLOL, I had him as a teammates many times on WB before the nerf. He'd get top stats and we'd often win coz he carries a bit. Oh and he's a bit of a chatterbox. Funny guy in game. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

Thank you all for the feed back, appreciate reading your thoughts, ideas and opinions even if they differ from mine and others. Glad everything was constructive and non toxic. A main theme rings true to us all, that we all want fair play and we all want more players to participate. New players are a gem and lets hope they stick around. 

[Luthan.5236]

I find it a bit weird that in the mini seasons you can 100-percent-queue while in the normal season you can only queue to 40 percent of the whole team size. Yeah: Mini seasons are just "for fun" - not to be taken seriously. (Encouraging to early drop the match if the enemy seems stronger - since then it can end pretty fast they just need to kill you while ticking points in conquest still would take time.)

Still ... being able to queue with 3 guys is too overpowered. When there it mainly is focused on spiking one guy of the enemy team down. First one that gets one guy downed and killed usually loses. In conquest you still could get matchups with let's say 3 premades + 2 randoms vs 5 premades ... might feel less imbalanced than in the death match. I would not be against full team queues available on normal conquest main season. In fact I like to play as the additional player with other coordinated people. For 1 or 2 randoms it is not that hard - if you pay a bit attention - to move to the correct places. When the other 3 premades in their voice chat might notice your playstyle. Possible to adapt to each other after the first initial rush. (Where usually a bad start does not mean you necessarily will have to lose the match.)

Edited September 17, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Kozumi.5816]

On 9/16/2022 at 3:57 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

You have endless ways to play with friends in this MMO though. Ranked is literally the only gamemode where you cannot take 4+ friends with you. Just as having a 2man premade in 3v3, having 2man premades in 5v5 is dumb. It doesn't let you play with FRIENDS(imagine, some people have multipe of those), it makes wintrading easy, and it's impossible to get matches if everyone teams up. Someone has to be  the one with the worse winrate, a loser who goes in alone... because you aren't making 5man teams out of 2man premades.
Anyone defending duoQ is either self reporting, or the "opinion" of those who haven't really thought about it. I have yet to hear an actual good argument that made me think... what arguments people put on the table are just making them look sus. You can wintrade without ending up in the top 20 you know?

LoL doesn't have issues with duo q.

The majority of people who duo q don't abuse it. It's an extreme minority that can easily be investigated. 

By the way, removing more ways too play is a great way to make an already low player count game mode even lower. You should be asking for more ways to queue, not less.

 

If friends and duo groups actually working together as a team without gaming the system is too much for you to handle, then perhaps you should try playing 1v1 games such as RTS and fighting?

Edited September 18, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Bazsi.2734]

37 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

LoL doesn't have issues with duo q.

The majority of people who duo q don't abuse it. It's an extreme minority that can easily be investigated. 

By the way, removing more ways too play is a great way to make an already low player count game mode even lower. You should be asking for more ways to queue, not less.

 

If friends and duo groups actually working together as a team without gaming the system is too much for you to handle, then perhaps you should try playing 1v1 games such as RTS and fighting?

I don't really know how LoL matchmaking works, all I know that it's nothing like GW2. So even if it's true, it's irrelevant.

Oh you have reliable information about how many people abuse duoQ? You know that only an EXTREME minority abuses the system which was built to be exploited this way? Must be nice to be this well informed. Unlike us, who just see wintraders all over the leaderboard and think there are a lot of them.... if this was amogus, you'd have my vote by now.

You know "friends and duo groups actually working togheter" was a reason of several 3+ month bans over the last year... it might be too much for me personally(after all I can only report what I see), but a-net sometimes actually takes action. It would be easier just to eliminate this built in wintrade function and have an actually competetive gamemode.

[Khalisto.5780]

1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

LoL doesn't have issues with duo q.

The majority of people who duo q don't abuse it. It's an extreme minority that can easily be investigated. 

By the way, removing more ways too play is a great way to make an already low player count game mode even lower. You should be asking for more ways to queue, not less.

 

If friends and duo groups actually working together as a team without gaming the system is too much for you to handle, then perhaps you should try playing 1v1 games such as RTS and fighting?

LoL has a healthy player base, you're not able to dodge all other duos that could make you lose

 

if you play extremely offhours, like 9-10 hours after reset time you have 1 duo that can match you (assuming your duo is a stable solo plat 1 player) max 2 duos.

 

No other game has a playerbase so low that you can actually exploit matchmaking like gw2

 

I agree that wintrading is only a thing in top 25, I've played games with ppl that claim wintrading is all over, but honestly, dude freaks out every game he doesnt have a clean win from start

this guy is like

 

losing from start = wintrading

a comeback from other team = wintrading

while skillwise he's at best a gold 3 player with a meme build that is not able to hardcarry games

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I don't really know how LoL matchmaking works, all I know that it's nothing like GW2. So even if it's true, it's irrelevant.

LoL has a split Ranked queue separating premades from Solo/Duo in 2 different Ranked queues.

It works pretty good especially with its healthier player count and more strict matchmaking for teams.

3 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

By the way, removing more ways too play is a great way to make an already low player count game mode even lower. You should be asking for more ways to queue, not less.

Yeah, exactly. Like a Solos arena.

There's another way to queue right there.

3 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If friends and duo groups actually working together as a team without gaming the system is too much for you to handle, then perhaps you should try playing 1v1 games such as RTS and fighting?

Will have to get back to you on this question

Being a Gw2 Ranked sPvP player I can only speak to how it is with teams gaming the system, since above plat 1 that's pretty much what the game devolves into.

[VyPR.3412]

Extend current ranked PIP rewards/legendary progression (but not titles/leaderboard) to Unranked, leave it 1-5 players, and make current ranked a solo-only Ladder mode for revamped titles and new placement bonuses

Top players deserve a title that others won't regularly question the legitimacy of, and everyone else deserves a level playing field.

Edited September 19, 2022 by VyPR.3412

[HeIIica.2945]

Please patch: DO NOT do away with duo queue!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to comment on any other comments about how this is used for nefarious reasons, because unfortunately, it is probably true, BUT not everyone does that.  I play pvp only with my friend, and if can't play with him, I won't play pvp anymore.  My friend and I are adamantly against people cheating, afkers, ect......and we don't engage in that kind of behavior, soooooo....why should we be penalized for it? 

In my opinion, as I have stated in other past posts, as well as, probably a gazillion other people have continuously posted.......dooooo something about the reporting system, get rid of the infamous cheaters and afkers!!! 

Ps.....you want tumbleweeds in pvp....do a 5 queue pvp......my friend and I aren't going to be sheep for the wolves of a 5 person team that has plotted and planned, and possibly been playing together forever.  Nooooo thank you.

Pss....maybe, I misunderstood, not saying that my friend and I wouldn't be able to play on same team? Even so, I still believe that pvp should be limited to a 2 person queue!! 

Edited September 19, 2022 by HeIIica.2945

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

19 hours ago, HeIIica.2945 said:

Please patch: DO NOT do away with duo queue!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to comment on any other comments about how this is used for nefarious reasons, because unfortunately, it is probably true, BUT not everyone does that.  I play pvp only with my friend, and if can't play with him, I won't play pvp anymore.  My friend and I are adamantly against people cheating, afkers, ect......and we don't engage in that kind of behavior, soooooo....why should we be penalized for it? 

It would be healthier to see it less as a penalty, and moreso to view it for what it is:

Absolutely necessary to keep Ranked fair and competitive. Like....

19 hours ago, HeIIica.2945 said:

In my opinion, as I have stated in other past posts, as well as, probably a gazillion other people have continuously posted.......dooooo something about the reporting system, get rid of the infamous cheaters and afkers!!! 

You seem to have a pretty good idea what's going on already, so I won't bore you. But its been 4, going on 5 years of this.

Clearly the strategy of giving them the tools to cheat with and then just 🤞hoping that they don't, or waiting for Anet to do something doesn't work and will continue to not work.

19 hours ago, HeIIica.2945 said:

Ps.....you want tumbleweeds in pvp....do a 5 queue pvp......my friend and I aren't going to be sheep for the wolves of a 5 person team that has plotted and planned, and possibly been playing together forever.  Nooooo thank you.

A split queue would be best and I wouldn't be too surprised if; given the option, people would want to play in bigger teams in the team queue part of a split queue.

Understand that there's seldom little difference between what a DuoQ is to a SoloQ and what a 5-man is to a DuoQ. Aside from severity of course since DuoQs are present in <10%~ of ranked matches played(according to Ben P)

But that represents a universal issue with these anecdotal posts, testimonies of how some dude just really wants to play with his son or his buddy, completely ignoring how other people might want to play in favor of some America's Got Talent-style sob story that's pretty easy to look past without any added weight on one's conscience.

If someone doesn't respect how you would like to queue then there's 0 reason to respect how they want to queue.

[Yuyo.5697]

Get good

[toxicarko.6923]

Yeah duoq must be deleted, at least to all plat division ! I agree... In beginning of the game there were 5v5 conquest in team and soloq 5v5 conquest too, now the good choice is to keep the soloq conquest 😄 

 

to play in team there is : 

- 2v2 and 3v3 ranked (maybe add deathmatch mod constantly ?)

- unranked (more specifics pips are needed)

- ATs for competitive pvp 

 

have fun ! 

Edited October 4, 2022 by toxicarko.6923

[Master Ketsu.4569]

I've said it before in these threads and I will say it again: The problem isn't so much Duo Q, the problem is that the way the matchmaking algorithm treats and privileges Duo Q is insanely stupid. Duo Q algorithm in upper ranked matches should set both players to the rating of the highest +10 for each division above gold III. The current method allows for blatant alt-abuse to cheat the system and get matched with better players on your team.

 

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

51 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

I've said it before in these threads and I will say it again: The problem isn't so much Duo Q, the problem is that the way the matchmaking algorithm treats and privileges Duo Q is insanely stupid. Duo Q algorithm in upper ranked matches should set both players to the rating of the highest +10 for each division above gold III. The current method allows for blatant alt-abuse to cheat the system and get matched with better players on your team.

No the problem is still DuoQ itself. DuoQ was a mistake.

 

Even if it worked liked you want it to(using the highest rated player's rating for mmr) it would still be skewed by the fact that this is a low population game that cannot provide anything close to a fair competition for stacked premades like that. There's a pool of about ~10 people for them to be fairly matched with and they all know eachother and actively avoid getting matched against their fellow cartel members.

 

If you couple that with the way this game's matchmaking works it becomes even worse because the longer you spend in queue = more imbalanced matchmaking and since there's only like 10 people even somewhat close to their inflated rating, they're just going to end up waiting slightly longer for their blowout win. It would have no effect, it would make 0 diff to what we have now. 

We don't want to play your game anymore. No more DuoQ either remove or split it. There's no good reason you can give me that we can't have a solos mode separate to duos. ☯️

[Pimsley.3681]

Guess OP's request wasn't granted. Next time, try not being "humble", maybe it'll get results. 

I dunno know. With the low population, it would be great if people just got along and played competitively. 

Watched that teapot vod with naru, helseth and handsdown, naru seemed the most intelligent and knowledgeable. 

He suggested turning unranked into some sort of death match but nobody said anything about getting rid of DuoQ.