Cal and Roy, since you are removing tradeoffs...

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This is how I would boost Gunsaber:

• Blooming Fire gets the evade frames it has underwater in the land version of the skill
• Breakstep's distance is increased at least to 600 range if not 900
• I would increase the range on Blooming Fire to 240
• I would either turn Cyclone Trigger into a full block or straight into a Missile Reflect

From there I would see how it performs before adding in damage, but Blooming Fire is where I would add more damage if I were the one to do it.

I think one consideration with gunsaber is that it doesn't need more damage in competitive (okay, maybe it will after the upcoming patch, but we'll see when it arrives), but most of its skills are unsplit and this has the effect of making it feel amaemic in PvE. So splitting and giving it more damage in PvE might be worth considering. Probably won't happen because bladesworn is already benching pretty high in PvE, so maybe make it more of a defensive and/or quasi-ranged weapon is the way to go in PvE, but for what it seems to be supposed to be it really does feel weak in PvE apart from the iaijitsu. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think one consideration with gunsaber is that it doesn't need more damage in competitive (okay, maybe it will after the upcoming patch, but we'll see when it arrives), but most of its skills are unsplit and this has the effect of making it feel amaemic in PvE. So splitting and giving it more damage in PvE might be worth considering. Probably won't happen because bladesworn is already benching pretty high in PvE, so maybe make it more of a defensive and/or quasi-ranged weapon is the way to go in PvE, but for what it seems to be supposed to be it really does feel weak in PvE apart from the iaijitsu. 

I'm all in favor of giving Blooming Fire's 'projectiles' 900 range, same with the 3rd hit on the AA chain. Heck I'd add explosions to every hit of the AA chain and give skills 1-4 ranged (at 900) and melee components. 

[felix.2386]

we literally don't need another spec with greatsword axe/shield

need other way to make bladesworn play better.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:30 PM, Kayberz.5346 said:

Stop trying to turn bladesworn into another "core warrior with a tacked on mechanic" spec like the other 2 specs we already have 

 

The whole theme of the spec is that you are a warrior that uses a gunsaber, if they give weapon swap to bladesworn it will inevitably forever camp axe/axe axe/pistol in pve and never even use the gunsaber.

 

God forbid warrior has a spec that actually makes you play differently from the same exact playstyle we've had for 10 years

Why isnt Druid loosing its Pet?

Why has Soulbeast still access to the Normal Pets?

I wonder why Daredevil and Deadeye still have the stolen Skills? They dont steal.

Scrapper and Holo have their Toolbelt still.

 

Why is it Warrior that needs to be ducked in the kitten all the time?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

we literally don't need another spec with greatsword axe/shield

need other way to make bladesworn play better.

I think if BSW got weapon swap back and Gunsaber tweaked to actually be good, you'd have room to carry a Rifle, Longbow, or a CC set. If Blooming Fire got the evade frames on land that the UW version has, and Breakstep got it's distance increased you could easily replace GS or Axe/Shield with it. Or both really since TR will still reload the Gunsaber skills.

You could have a hammer or Mace/Shield in one set for CC, Longbow or Rifle in the other to punish kiters, and then have Gunsaber for moderate DPS, moderate mobility, and moderate sustain through the evade and missile block. Or you could keep GS or Axe/shield in one of the sets to focus more heavily in an area.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Why isnt Druid loosing its Pet?

Why has Soulbeast still access to the Normal Pets?

I wonder why Daredevil and Deadeye still have the stolen Skills? They dont steal.

Scrapper and Holo have their Toolbelt still.

 

Why is it Warrior that needs to be ducked in the kitten all the time?

We all get heavy handed tradeoffs, or none of us do. Either way is fine by me, but Anet has proved unable to give other specs the kind of tradeoffs they game Berserker and Bladesworn. The one exception would be Mechanist, for once another spec got a tradeoff like what we got in the past.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

We all get heavy handed tradeoffs, or none of us do. Either way is fine by me, but Anet has proved unable to give other specs the kind of tradeoffs they game Berserker and Bladesworn. The one exception would be Mechanist, for once another spec got a tradeoff like what we got in the past.

I mean... The berserker and Bladesworn Mechanic have a huge downside in of itself. No need to stack 4-5 more ontop.

Edited September 21, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I mean... The berserker and Bladesworn Mechanic have a huge downside in of itself. No need to stack 4-5 more ontop.

Precisely.

[MemeLord.1096]

I think they shoud just remove all of the traitoffs, make the Elite Spec living up to it's true identity as the "Elites".

[Zekent.3652]

10 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

we literally don't need another spec with greatsword axe/shield

need other way to make bladesworn play better.

Yeah, bladesworn gameplay is... you see a bladesworn playing its class, and seems like they're doing well, but when you play it, it's just buggy and clunky, gunsaber needs to be polished, and i don't think selfroot on F2 without stab works in this game with so many "rat-like" other classes builds.

I would love to play sw/sw and then gunsaber, aesthetically looks great, but sw3 is scuffed and sw offhand is depressing.

it's a "master of weaponry" tho, should use a lot of weapons, but if they don't wanna give core wep swap to bladesworn, at least polish that gunsaber if they really want that weapon being the main one of the spec.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Mungrul.9358]

16 hours ago, MemeLord.1096 said:

I think they shoud just remove all of the traitoffs, make the Elite Spec living up to it's true identity as the "Elites".

While there's value to that, from a balance perspective, I worry that Elite Specs already overshadow taking a third Core spec for most professions, meaning a pure Core build is at a distinct disadvantage.

They need to be careful to make sure that removing tradeoffs from Elite specs doesn't make them necessarily any more powerful than any of the Core spec lines.

While you have a game that has a competitive element that sells itself as not being "Pay to Win", you need to make sure that free-to-play Core specs are on a level playing field with Elite specs.

If you don't, your game is the very definition of "Pay to Win".

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Stoopid paragraph spacing >:E

[MemeLord.1096]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

They need to be careful to make sure that removing tradeoffs from Elite specs doesn't make them necessarily any more powerful than any of the Core spec lines.

Well, they already did, even worse Core traits is being balance and design to work with the Elite traitline, not to work as 3 combines. It's obvious that Core Revenant sucks, nobody play it, it weak as hell cus all Core traitlines are designed around the Elite traitline.

 

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

If you don't, your game is the very definition of "Pay to Win".

I would not using those "P" term since part of it is not true and will trigger 90% of the playerbase.
How about "Losing for not Buying the game". Free players should be encourage to buy Expansions.

Edited September 22, 2022 by MemeLord.1096

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, while you could say that yes, people with expansions having an advantage over people who don't is technically giving an advantage to people who buy the game, that's not really the context where "pay to win" is normally used. GW2 is essentially a regular game with expansions that happens to have a very generous free trial. It's still understood that the business model involves paying for expansions, but once you've got the expansions, that's it.

PTW is usually used in situations where the ability to pay for more power goes above and beyond the base price of the game and any expansions, particularly when that's RNG-based or potentially open-ended.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

While there's value to that, from a balance perspective, I worry that Elite Specs already overshadow taking a third Core spec for most professions, meaning a pure Core build is at a distinct disadvantage.

They need to be careful to make sure that removing tradeoffs from Elite specs doesn't make them necessarily any more powerful than any of the Core spec lines.

While you have a game that has a competitive element that sells itself as not being "Pay to Win", you need to make sure that free-to-play Core specs are on a level playing field with Elite specs.

If you don't, your game is the very definition of "Pay to Win".

 

You fix that by making all 5 core traitlines powerful in their own right and remove/buff all the dead weight that they have. Once Arms is looked at like Defense was I think you'll see more core warriors running around pulling some similar numbers to what other specs are pulling.

[draxynnic.3719]

44 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You fix that by making all 5 core traitlines powerful in their own right and remove/buff all the dead weight that they have. Once Arms is looked at like Defense was I think you'll see more core warriors running around pulling some similar numbers to what other specs are pulling.

Pretty much this, really. A large part of the problem has always been that there are professions where it was easy to have two core traitlines that you really care about, but there wasn't a third that was really good and therefore you might as well take an elite specialisation. Ideally, there should be enough possible synergies that you still really want that third core specialisation and giving it up feels like you're giving up something meaningful. Addressing that not only makes core more competitive, but makes the entire profession healthier.

[felix.2386]

21 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think if BSW got weapon swap back and Gunsaber tweaked to actually be good, you'd have room to carry a Rifle, Longbow, or a CC set. If Blooming Fire got the evade frames on land that the UW version has, and Breakstep got it's distance increased you could easily replace GS or Axe/Shield with it. Or both really since TR will still reload the Gunsaber skills.

You could have a hammer or Mace/Shield in one set for CC, Longbow or Rifle in the other to punish kiters, and then have Gunsaber for moderate DPS, moderate mobility, and moderate sustain through the evade and missile block. Or you could keep GS or Axe/shield in one of the sets to focus more heavily in an area.

lol no, its gonna carry greatsword axe/shield

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, felix.2386 said:

lol no, its gonna carry greatsword axe/shield

You might, doesn't mean the rest of us would. If they touch up Gunsaber properly with things like an evade on a short CD ammo skill than can be recharged and more mobility on its short range mobility skill, then yes there is plenty of room to carry a CC set and/or a ranged set if they give weapon swap back to BSW. I can see GS being very easily dropped. Even then with BSW right now with only one weapon set, have they moved to just GS or just axe/shield? No. They run axe/pistol or axe/horn to either abuse ammo mechanics or abuse the sustain of warhorn on top of the shout sustain. So their choice of weapon set right now already refutes you. GS and Axe/Shield are not important enough to the BSW that they take either over Axe/Horn or Axe/Pistol.

Now after the bug fixes and TR nerf on Oct. 4th we'll see what they gravitate to, but pistol or horn will most likely be in that set not GS or shield.

[artharon.9276]

to me th biggest tradeoff is not being able to sheathe the bloody gunsaber or use different skins. or at least change its colour. I started to only care about gameplay rather than what's strong what's weak but seriously this is so annoying that I just can't get myself play bladesworn even though I started to like the espec since I figured it out its "moments".

 

my dear guy, quit defending this by pointing out engineer kits. they got many kits warriors got one that replaces a weapon swap.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, artharon.9276 said:

my dear guy, quit defending this by pointing out engineer kits. they got many kits warriors got one that replaces a weapon swap.

Which is the whole point of the thread? Tradeoffs are being removed, so what does that mean for BSW in the long term? What does that mean for Spellbreaker in the long term?

[artharon.9276]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:37 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Which is the whole point of the thread? Tradeoffs are being removed, so what does that mean for BSW in the long term? What does that mean for Spellbreaker in the long term?

 

 

ditto

 

[MemeLord.1096]

On 9/22/2022 at 5:33 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

a very generous free trial

uhhh, how generous of them. Tagging "Free to play" on a game with competitive PvP mode then place disadvatage on people who don't buy the DLCs.

Edited September 25, 2022 by MemeLord.1096

[draxynnic.3719]

6 minutes ago, MemeLord.1096 said:

uhhh, how generous of them. Tagging "Free to play" on a game with competitive PvP mode then place disadvatage on people who don't buy the DLCs.

It's a very large glorified demo. Demos are pretty common practice. The expectation is that if you're serious, you're going to buy the game. Not just for competitive, too - if anything, you're disadvantaged even more in other modes if you don't get the expansion after hitting level 80 (if not before).

The business model is that you can try the game for free, but if you like it, the expectation is that you'll buy in. ArenaNet has made no bones about this. There's none of the underhandedness typically done with free-to-feed pay-to-win games like, to bring up a recent example, Diablo Immoral.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

It would be pretty awesome if spellbreaker got its damage back for full counter. 1vX while roaming would improve greatly. It was priceless during the days of killing everyone in melee range with full counter because the allies of your opponents wouldn't stop firing from range and activating it.

[eXruina.4956]

remove the tradeoff of being locked into melee? incentivize and reward warrior melee gameplay? big pp damage? more enablers and gap closers? strong build defining ranged options? ^~^

[KryTiKaL.3125]

13 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

remove the tradeoff of being locked into melee? incentivize and reward warrior melee gameplay? big pp damage? more enablers and gap closers? strong build defining ranged options? ^~^

I think the last time Warrior could "reliably" play ranged was the early days of HoT with Gunflame and how you could tag like 5+ people with like 8k+ damage each. They nerfed that into the abyss. Now you can't even really meme with it anymore.