World Linking 9/30/2022

[TheGrimm.5624]

24 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You want to screenshot this? the wiki and scoring sites have them as host with no link in t5.

 

Was meaning to watch for this, wasn't there linking issues after last beta reset and things had to be triggered twice to correct or am I miss remembering that?

[Xenesis.6389]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:57 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

Was meaning to watch for this, wasn't there linking issues after last beta reset and things had to be triggered twice to correct or am I miss remembering that?

Only issue I remember last time was the rankings were reset so servers were thrown into tiers they didn't belong in as if a relinking has just happened.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You want to screenshot this? the wiki and scoring sites have them as host with no link in t5.

Must have been something with the api following the beta I guess. Now it looks correct.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Only issue I remember last item was the rankings were reset so servers were thrown into tiers they didn't belong in as if a relinking has just happened.

 

That might have been it. Thanks, noted which tier we were headed to prior to the test will have to check that. Good reset to you!

[BatelGeuce.3591]

I have to say that whoever came up with linking WSR with RoS had to be on some kind of drugs because this is beyond ridiculous.

[Daredevil.2745]

2 hours ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

I have to say that whoever came up with linking WSR with RoS had to be on some kind of drugs because this is beyond ridiculous.

What's wrong with that? As i see both opponents of WSR (Piken and Deso) have 0.5 and 0.6 kdr, it means thay are simply garbage in terms of skill. So they shouldn't have chances to win ppt as well. Everything looks ok, pve servers should be in lowest tiers while wvw servers like wsr go up.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Daredevil.2745

[illuvatar.7590]

7 hours ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

I have to say that whoever came up with linking WSR with RoS had to be on some kind of drugs because this is beyond ridiculous.

 

Blablabla the main problem is the lack of players, a tier 5 that should have been removed a long time ago.
For those who play during the day can see how some servers are completely dead. It might be time to: remove tier 5 and link 3 servers. Or even better, remove a few servers, 27 serv in 2022 is a joke.
Anet could do it while waiting for their  " project of WvW restructuration. "

[Daredevil.2745]

19 minutes ago, illuvatar.7590 said:

Or even better, remove a few servers

Who should be removed? I propose to remove servers with the lowest kdr like the 2 mentioned above.

[SFShinigami.1572]

19 minutes ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

Who should be removed? I propose to remove servers with the lowest kdr like the 2 mentioned above.

Check out this guy who still thinks wvw isn't fundamentally a numbers game.

[illuvatar.7590]

They could start by removing a bunch of regional server.. There is 5 French servers, 7 Deutch serv. Let's reduce this to 2 or 3 regional servers seems reasonable to me. After we have 14 European servers, we must reduce the number there too. (I don't count Baruch lol)

 

But how ? I don't know. How many of these servers are really active in wvw ? Does a server that gets destroyed all day, from morning to prime and that is only active in prime time for 4 hours, deserve to exist?  It's just my opignion but it's better to delete this kind of server. It's always better than seeing them crying all day on the teamchat: deadgame / deadserver. Or to see them come crying here because of a bad link which is not the source of the problem. I think we will have to keep the servers where there is a real community. Even if some of these servers are weak in players, removing others will fill the void.

 

It's a drastic solution, there have been many others but while waiting for years nothing has happened and the alliance system does not seem to please the majority.

[Ferus.3165]

5 hours ago, illuvatar.7590 said:

They could start by removing a bunch of regional server.. There is 5 French servers, 7 Deutch serv. Let's reduce this to 2 or 3 regional servers seems reasonable to me. After we have 14 European servers, we must reduce the number there too. (I don't count Baruch lol)

 

But how ? I don't know. How many of these servers are really active in wvw ? Does a server that gets destroyed all day, from morning to prime and that is only active in prime time for 4 hours, deserve to exist?  It's just my opignion but it's better to delete this kind of server. It's always better than seeing them crying all day on the teamchat: deadgame / deadserver. Or to see them come crying here because of a bad link which is not the source of the problem. I think we will have to keep the servers where there is a real community. Even if some of these servers are weak in players, removing others will fill the void.

 

It's a drastic solution, there have been many others but while waiting for years nothing has happened and the alliance system does not seem to please the majority.

This ^

aside from those 2-4 hours prime time wvw is dead on so many of the regional servers. What is stopping anet from combining them or linking 3-4 "dead" servers together instead of just 2. It's honestly not fun to log in, see that we are outnumbered and that there are like 5 other teammembers on that map and then log off again.

[Mabi black.1824]

14 hours ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

What's wrong with that? As i see both opponents of WSR (Piken and Deso) have 0.5 and 0.6 kdr, it means thay are simply garbage in terms of skill. So they shouldn't have chances to win ppt as well. Everything looks ok, pve servers should be in lowest tiers while wvw servers like wsr go up.

There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, you could do a lot more with the players you have. Today alone, on Wednesday you have players for 60,000K+D while we have 33,000K+D. You should increase our players by more than 80% to get closer to your number. So there is nothing wrong, everything is normal.

After all, combat servers like WSR look for just that. It's the best way to prove to everyone that you're a real WW server.  great job, although I am convinced that with those numbers you could do even better.

[Daredevil.2745]

You know what could possible balance the scoring system? Use such method: total points earned by a server * kdr = final points for a server.

For example, server A that is ppting like therei s no tomorrow at deep night and morning while everyone is sleeping has a lot of points. for example 300k points. but they have 0.5 kdr. so their final result will be 300k*0.5=150k points

Server B has 150k points and 2.1 kdr = 150k*2.1=315k points

Such scoring system will be much more fair, so the low skill nightcapping garbage couldn't win mathcaps while having low kdr.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Daredevil.2745

[Mabi black.1824]

9 hours ago, illuvatar.7590 said:

They could start by removing a bunch of regional server.. There is 5 French servers, 7 Deutch serv. Let's reduce this to 2 or 3 regional servers seems reasonable to me. After we have 14 European servers, we must reduce the number there too. (I don't count Baruch lol)

I personally would have created 36 servers in Europe. 4 matches. Each team is the result of the combination of 3 servers. and with monthly pairings no longer every 2 months. Much more fun for everyone.

And which players do you get them back with?

with the ones you have now. if today the servers have 1500 players ( by hypothesis ) is 1500x27 = 40500--------->40500:36 = 1125 new limit of players for each server.

And how do you force players to move?

forcing the hand , without giving players any other chance than moving. 4 weeks are enough. Create 9 new servers with free transfer. Reduce the capacity of players for each map, at the moment there are 70 players per map, put a temporary limit to 40 players. In all those stacked servers absurd queues will form, which if you still play WWW you can only transfer. and if 4 weeks are not enough you increase .

until you have reached your goal. Then you bring the limit of players per map to 70, as before.

Everyone's fear is that the road to alliance is still long. If only Anet could put a bit of development to improve the gaming experience for everyone, it would be really nice, and for what I have been doing lately in WWW it would also be very useful to prevent some of us from moving away from our favorite game.

[Mabi black.1824]

2 hours ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

You know what could possible balance the scoring system? Use such method: total points earned by a server * kdr = final points for a server.

For example, server A that is ppting like therei s no tomorrow at deep night and morning while everyone is sleeping has a lot of points. for example 300k points. but they have 0.5 kdr. so their final result will be 300k*0.5=150k points

Server B has 150k points and 2.1 kdr = 150k*2.1=315k points

Such scoring system will be much more fair, so the low skill nightcapping garbage couldn't win mathcaps while having low kdr.

But who is more interested in the scoring system, for some years now. Everyone is aware that this mechanic , in addition to the abuse of the usual players with transfers out of control, lead to games with huge numerical differences, which you can see for yourself in the game you are in.

What all players are looking for, are balanced games with + or - similar flows, recovering credibility for healthy competition. With this you will always have only one team that wins and the others lose, so there will still be a lot of complaints here, also normal in any type of competition because only one team can win, but honestly everything would take on another flavor. 

I was convinced that alliances came for this reason, but some players claim that the reasons are different, so I don't even know what to think anymore.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[BatelGeuce.3591]

23 hours ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

What's wrong with that? As i see both opponents of WSR (Piken and Deso) have 0.5 and 0.6 kdr, it means thay are simply garbage in terms of skill. So they shouldn't have chances to win ppt as well. Everything looks ok, pve servers should be in lowest tiers while wvw servers like wsr go up.

 

The problem here is that WSR is actually also garbage, the only difference is that they have way more active people than any other server and they got linked with RoS, which is also high pop. They don't have high KD because they play better (except for hunt and NUKE), it's because they outnumber everyone and farm low pop borderlands outside of prime time - as seen daily on EBG for example.

 

And Piken has always been trash, that's nothing new.

[Daredevil.2745]

1 hour ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

They don't have high KD because they play better (except for hunt and NUKE)

since when nuek has become a skilled guild? Have i missed something?

[illuvatar.7590]

4 hours ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

since when nuek has become a skilled guild? Have i missed something?

I have a vague memory of them, probably because they are insignificant.  they are skilled in sneaky night cap and when enemies arrive they port to spawn. The RUM guild does the same kitten.

 

11 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

And how do you force players to move?

Anet might for example not consider their opinions. Which would be completely understandable, they've done it many times before.

 

11 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Reduce the capacity of players for each map, at the moment there are 70 players per map, put a temporary limit to 40 players

And there we will have 20 afk and 10 roamers and 10 on the tag. Come on let's be serious. This idea is not even possible.

And finally, what made us all love World Vs World when Gw2 came out? The people ! Countless players! Lots of guild raids, lots of public zerg. We like it because there are a lot of people. Personally, I don't want WvW to become some sort of arena with a low number of players with small groups of 20 players.. The World Vs World is war, and to make war you need a lot of soldiers / players.

Edited October 25, 2022 by illuvatar.7590
space fix

[Nidome.1365]

15 hours ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

You know what could possible balance the scoring system? Use such method: total points earned by a server * kdr = final points for a server.

For example, server A that is ppting like therei s no tomorrow at deep night and morning while everyone is sleeping has a lot of points. for example 300k points. but they have 0.5 kdr. so their final result will be 300k*0.5=150k points

Server B has 150k points and 2.1 kdr = 150k*2.1=315k points

Such scoring system will be much more fair, so the low skill nightcapping garbage couldn't win mathcaps while having low kdr.

That is just dumb, it rewards servers that are paired with bandwagoners. As bandwagoners are responsible for the population imbalances that ruin matchups then rewarding them is stupid.

But on your argument of "skill" - WSR+RoS have due to bandwagoning to RoS more population than all of their opponents put together which means that in any given fight they should in theory on average have at least 2v1 players by volume. if you assume that all of the players have the same skill and that losses would be exponential for the smaller side the KDR of WSR+RoS should be at least 3 and their opponents no more than 0.45. Therefore, taking numerical superiority into account the WSR+RoS combo are actually less skilful than their opponents based upon the kdr figures you have quoted.

 

If you really want to remove servers, then logically the lowest population ones should be the first to go, of course you need to settle down the populations first by stopping or at least significantly discouraging bandwagoning. This could be quite simply achieved by modifying the gem cost of transfers - simply multiply the cost by the number of times the account has previously transferred. This discourages serial transfers but not one-off transfers to play WvW with friends.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:08 AM, Nidome.1365 said:

If you really want to remove servers, then logically the lowest population ones should be the first to go, of course you need to settle down the populations first by stopping or at least significantly discouraging bandwagoning. This could be quite simply achieved by modifying the gem cost of transfers - simply multiply the cost by the number of times the account has previously transferred. This discourages serial transfers but not one-off transfers to play WvW with friends

This seems to me to be good advice. And I wonder how much work development would have to do to apply them.

also because there is a post below where NA players complain about mag, rather than complain about the imbalance of players that the mag game manifests, we are on Friday and you can read 75,000k + d vs 59,000k + d a big difference I would say.

nothing compared to our t3 in EU 98.000k+d vs 55.000k+d . you guys from NA instead of complaining about mag should take a sightseeing tour in the EU to see with your own eyes the beautiful experiences of balanced matches that anet grants to its players around here.

Unfortunately it is clear that the construction of the games, with all the good will that Anet could put into it, is completely out of control. Please ANET If you have defined your work for alliances, as still a demanding and long job, really consider some adjustments and limitations to our current system, just to improve your control and allow more fun for everyone. (especially here in EU)

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:56 AM, illuvatar.7590 said:

And there we will have 20 afk and 10 roamers and 10 on the tag. Come on let's be serious. This idea is not even possible.

And finally, what made us all love World Vs World when Gw2 came out? The people ! Countless players! Lots of guild raids, lots of public zerg. We like it because there are a lot of people. Personally, I don't want WvW to become some sort of arena with a low number of players with small groups of 20 players.. The World Vs World is war, and to make war you need a lot of soldiers / players.

You are right and I completely agree when describing what we really like in this mode. My suggestion is only temporary 3 or 4 weeks should be enough , it only serves to force the hand and force players to transfer and fill the new servers. Once you have filled all 36 servers you have to consider that I suggested to make pairings of 3 servers. one team = 3 servers. So there will still be the same amount of players that you had before. 

And at that point we will have brought the map limit back to 70 players as originally.

You can consider it as a small restructuring of the current system, waiting for the enormous work of alliances. This would allow development to do whatever it takes to make alliances calmly. Then they can take their time. Meanwhile, players can enjoy something really new in this mode. More balance = more fun for everyone. More Divetimento=More active players in this mode.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:59 AM, Daredevil.2745 said:

You know what could possible balance the scoring system? Use such method: total points earned by a server * kdr = final points for a server.

For example, server A that is ppting like therei s no tomorrow at deep night and morning while everyone is sleeping has a lot of points. for example 300k points. but they have 0.5 kdr. so their final result will be 300k*0.5=150k points

Server B has 150k points and 2.1 kdr = 150k*2.1=315k points

Such scoring system will be much more fair, so the low skill nightcapping garbage couldn't win mathcaps while having low kdr.

 

KDR doesn't mean anything except potentially you brought more to a fight. If you use 5 to kill 1 while the one that died had one more who took your keep while you outnumbered their partner, you lost. Your KDR will look good but you were outplayed. No this is the reason we have both PPK and PPT. -1 here that's just a reasoning for more zerging and less tactical play. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:08 PM, Nidome.1365 said:

If you really want to remove servers, then logically the lowest population ones should be the first to go, of course you need to settle down the populations first by stopping or at least significantly discouraging bandwagoning. This could be quite simply achieved by modifying the gem cost of transfers - simply multiply the cost by the number of times the account has previously transferred. This discourages serial transfers but not one-off transfers to play WvW with friends.

 

Agree, have suggested the same in the past. Now granted wouldn't mind more current details about Alliances and transfers since it was also noted that once Alliances rollout there are no more transfers but is that the whole story or a mis-translated statement. If there are then yes would agree add increasing costs on more frequent transfer to cut down on player unbalancing matchups further.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

27 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

KDR doesn't mean anything except potentially you brought more to a fight. If you use 5 to kill 1 while the one that died had one more who took your keep while you outnumbered their partner, you lost. Your KDR will look good but you were outplayed. No this is the reason we have both PPK and PPT. -1 here that's just a reasoning for more zerging and less tactical play. 

at least outside of guildraid times (primetime bascially which is 7pm till 10 pm roughly) and reset, yeah
 

like on reset every map where fight happen is full. no point to cry about not having numbers there.

and u have a huge miscalculation in your way of thinking. nobody should ever care about ppt, unless u don't really play the game. its not "outplayed" if u sneak a keep while there's blobfight, it's just that nobody sane cares about ppt. '

if u think u've got the holy grail, think about this: 120 people or even more didn't give a sh#t about the keep. so your 10 people roamer cl#wns took it. wonderful, you pvE'd alone in a mass pvp format lmfao. u can hypothetically solo a keep so idk what to say when u boast with "outplaying" by stealing a keep...

ppt is worthless.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

at least outside of guildraid times (primetime bascially which is 7pm till 10 pm roughly) and reset, yeah
 

like on reset every map where fight happen is full. no point to cry about not having numbers there.

and u have a huge miscalculation in your way of thinking. nobody should ever care about ppt, unless u don't really play the game. its not "outplayed" if u sneak a keep while there's blobfight, it's just that nobody sane cares about ppt. '

if u think u've got the holy grail, think about this: 120 people or even more didn't give a sh#t about the keep. so your 10 people roamer cl#wns took it. wonderful, you pvE'd alone in a mass pvp format lmfao. u can hypothetically solo a keep so idk what to say when u boast with "outplaying" by stealing a keep...

ppt is worthless.

 

Which is why we need to get beyond Alliances. Each to their own on how you defining winning. If I attack 5 and kill one, to me that's a won fight. If I can detain those 5 while someone else takes their stuff. That's a win. They were outplayed. If you stack everyone on one map and give up the other 3, that's your loss. Zerg less?

Edited October 28, 2022 by TheGrimm.5624
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