Thief megathread: Oct 4th patch discussion

[Jumpel.3972]

Let see with what they follow up. I just hope they just don't rise again shroud health until it's "ok" for PVP

[Vidit.7108]

It seems everything that was talked about in the other threads prior to this patch was correct. Shroud HP is too low, and it impacts every Specter build. It's easier to lose shroud before being able to use it, it's also more noticeable now when the dps build fails to cap shroud before entering. The lower healing amount from consume shadows makes it less likely to generate rot wallow venom when you exit shroud. It doesn't say we got the in-shroud damage reduction that Necro has but it doesn't seem as though we did.

[Eleandra.4859]

I have to admit, I am shocked that this went through. Simply speechless.

 

After assigning a new balance team I had a sliver of hope that things would change for the better but you actually dialed the WTF-meter up to 11 with this. Already when the "balance preview" was posted, I lost any desire to log into GW2 and this is, after 10 years, what broke the camel's back, at least for now.

 

I beseech you, Arenanet, explain this destruction and why you feel it is necessary.

I believe you offhandedly destroyed a whole elite spec, you did not just nerf it, you double and even triple overnerfed where only the shroud reduction would have been too much already (see

 - shameless self reference).

 

You took back the banner changes to warrior in a matter of days and the changes to scrapper gyros even before they were released but went through with the nuclear option on specter. Both issues seem to me less destructive compared to what you just released for thief.

 

At least, please have the decency to explain yourself after dropping this onto our heads.

 

Sincerely,

WTF

 

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

Consume Shadows needed a nerf, it was basically a grandmaster level trait in an adept spot, and one a DPS could easily take for free support.

That said... boy is this an obscene nerf. I don't think I've ever seen a trait get hit as hard as this did, with the reduced shroud conversion this is now essentially a useless trait. Even the increased healing power on scepter is better than this even on a DPS build.

 

I barely play thief myself but boy this was immediately noticable. My heart to the thief / specter mains. You will be missed. This was a cool class.

[zch.3127]

ah yeah a round 10 endurance would have been overpowered, clearly

at least they remembered Acrobatics exists…

[Asur.9178]

4 hours ago, Nomad.4301 said:

5 Endurance per shadowstep from Hard to Catch is the biggest joke i've seen in a while from the balance team and that's saying something 😂

I genuinely think more people would run this in its old 300s CD form than now, Anet must really buy into the whole "thieves have infinite spammable shadowsteps" nonsense that people have been spouting since launch.

 

I am utterly shocked *insert Pikachu face*:

Quote

Oh, since people seem to have missed it, the endurance gain on Hard to Catch is "a very small number" from the shadowsteps (Roy's words)...so, don't even think to get your hopes up. Not like it'd be able to replace Swindler's Equilibrium in the first place.

[Nomad.4301]

16 minutes ago, Asur.9178 said:

Oh, since people seem to have missed it, the endurance gain on Hard to Catch is "a very small number" from the shadowsteps (Roy's words)...so, don't even think to get your hopes up. Not like it'd be able to replace Swindler's Equilibrium in the first place.

The fact that they said that implies to me that they knew that it was too small to actually be worth using which honestly makes changes like this even worse because it means they actively spent developer time making more traits they knew wouldn't ever be taken which really just wastes everyone's time. You're already in there poking around in the code, why not take 5 more minutes and think of a way to actually make a good trait instead of some barely passable garbage just to check a box and say "Yep, we did something with all those 300s CD, didn't say it would be improving them though."

[ChrOnOz.8450]

I see nothing about the short bow changes in the patch notes, am i just blind or am i missing something? Choking gas costing 7 initiative and infiltrator's arrow 8, wtf?

[Zacchary.6183]

1 hour ago, ChrOnOz.8450 said:

I see nothing about the short bow changes in the patch notes, am i just blind or am i missing something? Choking gas costing 7 initiative and infiltrator's arrow 8, wtf?

That was a while ago.

[Voraxen.2035]

Literally only nerfs. Patch after patch after patch. 

When was the last time core, daredevil, deadeye got any positive changes? Not even a year later, Specter joins the club with an absolutely insane reduction to shroud life. Arbitrarily to make it match necro's shroud?  Cmon guys, as if thief and necro are similar in any capacity. 

Hey I know, why do you give rangers and DHs the preparation skills too so they stop getting so much stealth from trapper runes. Oh and reduce all of the stealth from engi and mesmer.

So far the new pvp team sure seems to still hate thief. This really sucks guys. smh

[Asahi.1487]

Anet does not like thieves period. One of the previous devs told us in voice that they wished they can remove the class. Don't expect much from any new balance team.

[Kolly.9872]

I bet the next nerf hammer will hit on deadeye now.

I guess we will see an increase on deadeye users from now on that will result in increased deadeye complains 

[Emolesbian.3170]

When Anet guys find a cockroach in the kitchen, they blow the house with dynamite to get rid of it.

 

 

And...

 

5-8 stam per shadowstep ? Guys, thieves don't have access to dozens of shadowsteps. You killed them god's sake. And this tiny bonus isn't something a thief will use its precious movement util. or init points for. 

 

Whose person this idea belongs to ? Has he already played a thief ? Does he exist ?

[Peacekid.1463]

what is going on the thief is literally garbage atm

[Eleandra.4859]

Let me put it like this:

If nerfing Specter on this level was felt necessary, this implies that Anet seriously failed in the design of the elite spec from the beginning.

 

Anet should own their failure and redesign the trait lines instead of this atrocity.

 

 

[Emolesbian.3170]

"Balancing implies to do surgery. Not a lumberjack contest."

An Asura.

[AikijinX.6258]

The next ‘balance’ I predict will be them just completely getting rid of SuperSpeed on stealth. They’ll notice that the nerf from 2s down to 1.5 wasn’t enough.

[Doggie.3184]

8 hours ago, Asahi.1487 said:

Anet does not like thieves period. One of the previous devs told us in voice that they wished they can remove the class. Don't expect much from any new balance team.

Me too at this point cuz I'm tired of it. Just do what FFXIV did with Summoner recently and change it into a totally new, more comprehensible class. 10 years of this nonsense.

[Szymon.5369]

16 hours ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

"We do see specter's reduced initiative pool as one of the tradeoffs we want to revisit eventually, but given its current power level we didn't want to do so in this update. "

So basically for DPS specter in PvE: lets wait 1.5 months to get 1 more extra #3 in our rotas. GG, well played, that should be sucha good change, it will totally make shroud nerf irrelevant 😄 

For PvP it means we'll get to play Power Sc/D build again for a few days until they up the cost of Twilight Combo even more.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

17 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

I have my reservations of this patch and have expressed it. But this vague-kitten comment makes me foam at the mouth. “Once it’s less dominant?” lol. So what is the time window for this? A week from now or a year from now, this is very vague and very irritating. Because as thieves, we know how to adapt and be succeed with our class regardless of the each patch Nerf or not. But it seems like that is unfortunately to our detriment, because they only listen to the top 1-2 percentile of top Thieves. So theoretically we’ll never get this initiative restored or it won’t be until a very long time in the future.

The tremd i notice over the years with patching "fixes with nerfs or buffs" is they rewrite and change something..overpowered, skip ahead 2 years, nerf or change another skill/trait ir variable because we werent getting enough then...instead of un nerfing that prior change 2 years ago, add something else that screws up.

 

Take infiltrators arrow, 6/8 initiative then...but instead of un nerfing or reverting it back to previous status prior to the change, they compensate by nerfing somethimg similar or buffing something no one will use. 

 

This bandaid patching has got to stop and the ones responsible for viewing and making the upcoming changes need to far back to the original skills/traits/values and assess WHY the changes were made and adjust them based on whether or not they need to stay as is, revert to a previous adjustment or to buff them...not bandaid.

 

Its like i order fries at McDonald's, get 1 fry, complain to manager then get 1 ketchup packet instead of the full order...none of it makes sense.

 

Or walmart employees asking for a raise few years ago but getting ability to wear non uniforms and get a new vest instead...

 

Smh

 

[Asahi.1487]

5 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Me too at this point cuz I'm tired of it. Just do what FFXIV did with Summoner recently and change it into a totally new, more comprehensible class. 10 years of this nonsense.

Revamping a class requires competent devs. Which this game does not have in its 10 years

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I ran T4 Fractals today with my healing Specter. Wasn't too bad. But the experience was tainted and felt significant different from what I'm used to.

 

The healing you can accomplish with entering and exiting the Death Shroud was too strong, not gonna lie. The problem I'm seeing is, that you didn't even need healing stats on your equipment to do a massive healing burst. And that's just not correct. Healing power should have a significant impact on this way of supporting your allies. And Death Shroud needs a better scaling for PvE.

 

Thief is a niche profession and was barely present in any raid squad or other endgame activity, because it's overshadowed in each and every role they can play. With the recent changes we are back at square 1 basically. Why should you bring a thief when HAM can do a better job (for example)?

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

58 minutes ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I ran T4 Fractals today with my healing Specter. Wasn't too bad. But the experience was tainted and felt significant different from what I'm used to.

 

The healing you can accomplish with entering and exiting the Death Shroud was too strong, not gonna lie. The problem I'm seeing is, that you didn't even need healing stats on your equipment to do a massive healing burst. And that's just not correct. Healing power should have a significant impact on this way of supporting your allies. And Death Shroud needs a better scaling for PvE.

 

Thief is a niche profession and was barely present in any raid squad or other endgame activity, because it's overshadowed in each and every role they can play. With the recent changes we are back at square 1 basically. Why should you bring a thief when HAM can do a better job (for example)?

So much for "" Who can?" To "Who Can't?" "

 

*eye roll

Edited October 5, 2022 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Carnifex.3275]

19 hours ago, Eleandra.4859 said:

I have to admit, I am shocked that this went through. Simply speechless.

 

After assigning a new balance team I had a sliver of hope that things would change for the better but you actually dialed the WTF-meter up to 11 with this. Already when the "balance preview" was posted, I lost any desire to log into GW2 and this is, after 10 years, what broke the camel's back, at least for now.

 

I beseech you, Arenanet, explain this destruction and why you feel it is necessary.

I believe you offhandedly destroyed a whole elite spec, you did not just nerf it, you double and even triple overnerfed where only the shroud reduction would have been too much already (see

 - shameless self reference).

 

You took back the banner changes to warrior in a matter of days and the changes to scrapper gyros even before they were released but went through with the nuclear option on specter. Both issues seem to me less destructive compared to what you just released for thief.

 

At least, please have the decency to explain yourself after dropping this onto our heads.

 

Sincerely,

WTF

 

Yup yup couldnt agree more. I've been patient for so many years and was high on hopium but... it's always like that. Idk what did i even expect. Balance patch hits and you just don't want to even log in anymore as a thief main. I actually expected that this change won't go through. I updated the game and was really shocked that it actually went through to PvE also (ofcz with initiative bug too...). Just ugly, you don't even wanna play on thief anymore. From having no hope for Anet i actually ascended now. Now it's not hopelessness. Now it's actually hatred and spite for these anet employees. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Carnifex.3275

[Emolesbian.3170]

Still giving it a chance atm and...

Acro line still doesn't provide solid arguments. Hard to Catch feels like a lower rank trait.

. Well lol, nuf' said !

 

In fights I almost lose my shroud faster than I fill the bar

. Which instils an unpleasant feeling into my innocent heart.

 

Consume Shadows: 50% of not that much of a shroud bar produce...not that much of a heal.

. On this point, I suck it up. Damage gear producing great results with CS was uncoherent. But the problem for me lies into the shroud bar:

- There are scenarios where it melts so fast than stacking 5 is...lol

- If I use 1 stack I just in/out and sacrifice the shroud form and skills which is mechanically a huge waste for a barely decent heal.

---------------

Does the Specter effectiveness weight more on the balance to justify this suffering ? Why didn't you just tone down Consume Shadows instead ? The shroud bar cut affects a larger field than a single trait.

 

...💚

Edited October 5, 2022 by Emolesbian.3170