Too much fluff in the roadmap

[Gehenna.3625]

On 10/10/2022 at 5:18 AM, lezbefriends.7516 said:

The roadmap image makes it look like all those things are major content updates, but a lot of it is fluff.

 

Extra Life? Why is a publicity event made to look like it's content? It's an ad in the roadmap.

 

Festivals? Yeah, we already know they're coming. They're expected at this point, and the only reason to add them to the image is if we were getting new changes to them. But we're not, they're rehashes.

 

"Balance changes" are not important anymore, as most people will still be spamming '1' and not noticing much of a difference.

 

Don't care about WvW.

 

Weapon variants should all have been released with EoD. Why are they making their mistakes out to be content updates?

 

The only actual major updates are Living World Ep 5, which is rehashed sub-par content, and a new strike mission, which has no connection to the main story.

 

Suggestion: Focus on the main story. Fall and Winter Roadmap should've been Living World Season 1 ep 5, and 2 Living World Season 5 episodes. We've had enough 'refinement' of old features by now. You only do that after an expansion *if the expansion dropped was abundant in content*. The expansion was rushed to combat the "maintenance mode" rumors, and the last season was cut short to make a last minute expansion. Now they're making another expansion - great - but we still have no meaty content. The focus on strikes and raids is unwise, as no hard trinity is holding them back from making it a worthwhile minigame.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you're ready for X-mas...Bah Humbug to you too 😉 

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:18 PM, lezbefriends.7516 said:

The roadmap image makes it look like all those things are major content updates, but a lot of it is fluff.

 

Extra Life? Why is a publicity event made to look like it's content? It's an ad in the roadmap.

 

Festivals? Yeah, we already know they're coming. They're expected at this point, and the only reason to add them to the image is if we were getting new changes to them. But we're not, they're rehashes.

 

"Balance changes" are not important anymore, as most people will still be spamming '1' and not noticing much of a difference.

 

Don't care about WvW.

 

Weapon variants should all have been released with EoD. Why are they making their mistakes out to be content updates?

 

The only actual major updates are Living World Ep 5, which is rehashed sub-par content, and a new strike mission, which has no connection to the main story.

 

Suggestion: Focus on the main story. Fall and Winter Roadmap should've been Living World Season 1 ep 5, and 2 Living World Season 5 episodes. We've had enough 'refinement' of old features by now. You only do that after an expansion *if the expansion dropped was abundant in content*. The expansion was rushed to combat the "maintenance mode" rumors, and the last season was cut short to make a last minute expansion. Now they're making another expansion - great - but we still have no meaty content. The focus on strikes and raids is unwise, as no hard trinity is holding them back from making it a worthwhile minigame.

 

 

 

 

And I dont care about living world so for me WvW and balance changes are all that matters~

Guess Your "pve" crap isn't content to me, by your logic.

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Consinder that they have not even given a hint that lfg is a problem we aint getting a rework for it no matter how many threads you jump into and complain about it.

And if you think living world season 1 episodes are just some polish and then push out.

It must be new content to you since if you played it you would know how much they have to change to make it into the episode format.

The LFG problem have been mentioned thousands of times here and in reddit. And it doesnt even need to be mentioned, cos if you need 10 min to scroll all tabs with delays to see whats forming its definetly a bad lfg (for not talking about arcaic interface information).

They didnt said that not having a raptor at lvl 10 was a problem and they did it silent, they didnt said that dungeons currencies were a problem and solve it, they didnt said that starting world bosses were a problem and reworked them, same with easy mode raids. If they havent done it yet, its cos you need to commit to do it and they just do minor stuff. (even after having very good revenue)

I played living world season 1 (not all) back in the day. And they have just cut stuff, change some conversations and rerroll it to be a permanent season like the others. Not gonna say it doesnt take some time, but it was already developed 80% of it. The only new thing is the strike.

And i wouldnt mind all of this it we got new fractals/raids/pvp maps and modes/wvw stuff from Expansions... but we dont get it either after waiting years and paying for it. And thats one thing we used to get in Gw1 and in less than a year (with less than 20% the employees they have now)

PD: You can spam all the disaprove emotes you want, but the feedback im giving here is very objective and with real data comparing it with gw1, seeing their revenue and what they are doing or what we get with expansions.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

The LFG problem have been mentioned thousands of times here and in reddit. And it doesnt even need to be mentioned, cos if you need 10 min to scroll all tabs with delays to see whats forming its definetly a bad lfg (for not talking about arcaic interface information).

They didnt said that not having a raptor at lvl 10 was a problem and they did it silent, they didnt said that dungeons currencies were a problem and solve it, they didnt said that starting world bosses were a problem and reworked them, same with easy mode raids. If they havent done it yet, its cos you need to commit to do it and they just do minor stuff. (even after having very good revenue)

I played living world season 1 (not all) back in the day. And they have just cut stuff, change some conversations and rerroll it to be a permanent season like the others. Not gonna say it doesnt take some time, but it was already developed 80% of it. The only new thing is the strike.

And i wouldnt mind all of this it we got new fractals/raids/pvp maps and modes/wvw stuff from Expansions... but we dont get it either after waiting years and paying for it. And thats one thing we used to get in Gw1 and in less than a year (with less than 20% the employees they have now)

PD: You can spam all the disaprove emotes you want, but the feedback im giving here is very objective and with real data comparing it with gw1, seeing their revenue and what they are doing or what we get with expansions.

Really?  I don't recall any Fractals in Guild Wars (One), nor any Raids or World vs. World.  And, there was only one expansion; the other two were stand-alone campaigns.

[Ashen.2907]

30 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Really?  I don't recall any Fractals in Guild Wars (One), nor any Raids or World vs. World.  And, there was only one expansion; the other two were stand-alone campaigns.

Expansion vs stand alone campaign is largely a semantic argument as those stand alone campaigns existed to expand the GW1 world.

[kharmin.7683]

20 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Expansion vs stand alone campaign is largely a semantic argument as those stand alone campaigns existed to expand the GW1 world.

But could the expansion stand alone?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Expansion vs stand alone campaign is largely a semantic argument as those stand alone campaigns existed to expand the GW1 world.

Regardless, did the 'expansions/campaigns' have any Fractals? Raids? WvW?

[MashMash.1645]

It's just what's coming up.

They aren't ready to talk about LS6 or the xpac, so if you take away all the stuff you mentioned, might as well not put out a roadmap.

Then people would complain, as they have been, that anet aren't telling us what's happening.

Can't win.

Edited October 13, 2022 by MashMash.1645

[Izzy.2951]

14 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Really?  I don't recall any Fractals in Guild Wars (One), nor any Raids or World vs. World.  And, there was only one expansion; the other two were stand-alone campaigns.

If you want to stay blind, thats up to you.

When i bought GW Factions i got 2 elite Missions (comparable to raids) Deep and Urgoz. I got Alliance Battle system, with 3 new pvp modes (AB, JQ, FA) with a total of 7 huge maps with unique mechanics, aswell as maps for random arenas and guild vs guild with again, unique mechanics. We got loads of pve maps, new enemys, cities, outpost, challenge missions... aswell as story, skins, titles etc...

What did you get when u bought GW2 End of dragons? 4 maps, a hub, strike missions (that are cool) but its fighting the same boss of story. Wheres the pvp stuff, the group content and all the cool stuff?

"Oh we get those in between expansions", no we dont in fact. We are only awaiting for living world that is kinda the same. So yes indeed, the fluf is over 9.000 so far.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Morvran.8265]

OP made a mistake by calling content he doesn't like "fluff" but people are too hung up on that. And to be fair, WvW beta for a matchmaking change is hardly content.

 

I can echo the sentiment. This roadmap is rather empty and only confirmed that there won't be any new content coming. 1 year content drought with vague promises of future content does not instill much hope in me either. Dark times for GW2.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

6 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

If you want to stay blind, thats up to you.

When i bought GW Factions i got 2 elite Missions (comparable to raids) Deep and Urgoz. I got Alliance Battle system, with 3 new pvp modes (AB, JQ, FA) with a total of 7 huge maps with unique mechanics, aswell as maps for random arenas and guild vs guild with again, unique mechanics. We got loads of pve maps, new enemys, cities, outpost, challenge missions... aswell as story, skins, titles etc...

What did you get when u bought GW2 End of dragons? 4 maps, a hub, strike missions (that are cool) but its fighting the same boss of story. Wheres the pvp stuff, the group content and all the cool stuff?

"Oh we get those in between expansions", no we dont in fact. We are only awaiting for living world that is kinda the same. So yes indeed, the fluf is over 9.000 so far.

It is rather dissembling to compare a campaign to an expansion.  You should compare Factions to Core Guild Wars 2. 

Again, where are the Fractals in Guild Wars expansion? Any 3-way WvW in EotN? 

I don't believe I said anything about content between Guild Wars 2 expansions. 

[Super Hayes.6890]

I am glad the roadmap is taking care of things that have been long asked for like WvW improvements. This "downtime" has allowed for me to explore much more of the existing game. I'm looking forward to creating a new character and taking it through the entire story with a complete season 1. We do not need rapid fire content. A consistently high quality game is a better thing and they are really trying to deliver that.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:34 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

And i wouldnt mind all of this it we got new fractals/raids/pvp maps and modes/wvw stuff from Expansions... but we dont get it either after waiting years and paying for it. And thats one thing we used to get in Gw1 and in less than a year (with less than 20% the employees they have now)

That's not a fair comparison. GW1 was for all intents and purposes a much smaller game. So naturally stuff could be done with a lot fewer people. GW2 is literally ten times bigger. So, of course you're going to need more people to run it.

On 10/13/2022 at 6:34 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

PD: You can spam all the disaprove emotes you want, but the feedback im giving here is very objective and with real data comparing it with gw1, seeing their revenue and what they are doing or what we get with expansions.

Please, if you want to be taken seriously by anyone, don't call your own feedback objective. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

 I'm looking forward to creating a new character and taking it through the entire story with a complete season 1.

I took my main character through season 1 having never done it before.  Was fun.

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:34 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

The LFG problem have been mentioned thousands of times here and in reddit. And it doesnt even need to be mentioned, cos if you need 10 min to scroll all tabs with delays to see whats forming its definetly a bad lfg (for not talking about arcaic interface information).

thres no problem in LFG i use it everyday.

why on earth someone will scroll all tabs? just pick the thing u want to do.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Labjax.2465]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:03 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

It isnt. Neither raids, fractals, pvp maps/modes, neither important rework needed for LFG or other stuff. Neither other new content. Just a wvw beta after 300 ages, and living world s1 return, okay... at this pace until 2.030 we dont get something meaningful. 

I really dont understand or either they dont have barely devs, or they just dont use their time properly. Cos the pace of development cant be more slow or directly abandonning most of the content and not reworking anything important.

And people calling about "rushing content", what content? IBS was abandonned, EoD isnt the best polished xpac or with proper content (and it was delayed). Now we are not getting lws6 or any of the other stuff. Do they have 10 ppl working at the game?

I agree. Content is the primary way people understand an MMO as still being worked on and GW2 is not enough of a sandbox to justify the slow pace with which they release new content, nor the size of it when content does come out. I mean, if they can have people available who aren't being put on another team and they do stuff like change repair anvil to an HP buff nobody wanted or asked for, isn't that a perfect microcosm indication that their priorities are in some way screwy and though numbers may be a factor, they are also probably being mismanaged as is common for game studios to be.

Like I have nothing personal against the people who did the change I mentioned and my desire isn't to put them down specifically, but when you can spot wasted time that easily while content lags behind, it should be clear there are problems.

And like, it's not that I don't appreciate the work that goes into the game or the effort that goes into making it a quality experience. Sometimes those things are very clear, but this industry has taught me as a customer that giving credit to a studio for sometimes doing the baseline of what you expect when you pay for something just leads to resentment and/or disappointment when you don't get that baseline a lot of the rest of the time. I didn't end up this way because I want to put people down, but because I have to protect myself from being too naive about how these companies operate. That no matter what I say or pay, they will continue to make the same mistakes they were making before I showed up, so I have to be ok enough with those mistakes or move on. I criticize mainly to vent and to help other people feel seen in their own frustrations. Rationally, no matter how much I wish it would make a difference, I know I'm not a consultant for the studio and my takes would mean little to them if they are ever read at all.

The truly difficult thing for me is that fridge logic experience of playing a game like this. Enjoying it for a period of time, then reflecting on it and realizing how much of a mess I think it is. I would love to just enjoy it instead, but I can't pretend pain points don't exist and I can't pretend the future of the game looks reassuring. You can put whatever you want in a roadmap, there are no rules abut it, and I'll take a roadmap over no roadmap, but if someone's primary metric for "still being worked on" in an MMO is content, that thing is unequivocally the cotton candy of roadmaps.

[Izzy.2951]

5 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

It is rather dissembling to compare a campaign to an expansion.  You should compare Factions to Core Guild Wars 2. 

Again, where are the Fractals in Guild Wars expansion? Any 3-way WvW in EotN? 

Are you reading what you say? Lets compare it with Eye Of The North that was an EXPANSION also, and it bringed loaaads of dungeons, fractals are dungeons m8, some even smaller in term of map sizes. Alongside races and lots of stuff. 

AB can easily be compared with WvW format in someways, and they dropped 5 huge maps in that campaign, not counting JQ and FA and all the stuff and systems that came with alliances and kurz/lux pve stuff too, cities, etc..

 

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That's not a fair comparison. GW1 was for all intents and purposes a much smaller game. So naturally stuff could be done with a lot fewer people. GW2 is literally ten times bigger. So, of course you're going to need more people to run it.

Please, if you want to be taken seriously by anyone, don't call your own feedback objective. 

Smaller game? do you know that Gw1 had 7 million players in 2009 (4 years after its release). For a game that came from the dust, while Gw2 had more or less the same having a huge hype over the MMO community. And in 2015 it went F2P, so loads of those accounts are not even paid lol.

Gw2 is bigger because it requieres more resources to do it? yes. But that doesnt explain how with 300 employees you dont deliver anything, aside very minor updates and years and years of waiting for something. If the other top MMOs can do it gw2 should be able to do something SIMILAR. Not 4 years for a new raid or  fractal,. or 4 years for a new pvp map (lets not talk even about a new pvp mode or lobby).

So yes my comments are objective cos im giving you data, and arguments that support that with evidence.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Smaller game? do you know that Gw1 had 7 million players in 2009 (4 years after its release). For a game that came from the dust, while Gw2 had more or less the same having a huge hype over the MMO community. And in 2015 it went F2P, so loads of those accounts are not even paid lol.

Sigh...I'm talking about actual size on your hard disk. Not the number of players. And GW1 had many players (I was one of them), but it was easier to manage because the world was instanced and not persistent. That's one of the main reasons those games cannot even be compared. But I looked it up. GW1 requires 5G of space on your hd, and GW2 50G. That's all code. And besides, the 7 million number is not active players but accounts created afaik. So do you call "loads of accounts" data? 

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Gw2 is bigger because it requieres more resources to do it? yes. But that doesnt explain how with 300 employees you dont deliver anything, aside very minor updates and years and years of waiting for something. If the other top MMOs can do it gw2 should be able to do something SIMILAR. Not 4 years for a new raid or  fractal,. or 4 years for a new pvp map (lets not talk even about a new pvp mode or lobby).

And here you show total subjectivity. You want raids or fractals but as with dungeons they moved on from those. You get strikes now and CM strikes. Your comment about PvP is fair, but that's about it. And you make assumptions about what Anet "should be able to do" but that's just an assumption. They get their budget just like any other company and it's not as big as Blizzard or Square Enix I'm quite sure. So no, not facts, but assumptions. So again, is "very minor updates" data and objective?

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

So yes my comments are objective cos im giving you data, and arguments that support that with evidence.

You have given nothing of the kind. You make an uneven comparison, talk about what you want instead of what you've gotten, topped up with non sequiturs and then finish it off with assumptions. Sure some of what you say is factually true but the conclusions you attach to them are purely a subjective construct.

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Sigh...I'm talking about actual size on your hard disk. Not the number of players. And GW1 had many players (I was one of them), but it was easier to manage because the world was instanced and not persistent. That's one of the main reasons those games cannot even be compared. But I looked it up. GW1 requires 5G of space on your hd, and GW2 50G. That's all code. And besides, the 7 million number is not active players but accounts created afaik. So do you call "loads of accounts" data? 

And here you show total subjectivity. You want raids or fractals but as with dungeons they moved on from those. You get strikes now and CM strikes. Your comment about PvP is fair, but that's about it. And you make assumptions about what Anet "should be able to do" but that's just an assumption. They get their budget just like any other company and it's not as big as Blizzard or Square Enix I'm quite sure. So no, not facts, but assumptions. So again, is "very minor updates" data and objective?

You have given nothing of the kind. You make an uneven comparison, talk about what you want instead of what you've gotten, topped up with non sequiturs and then finish it off with assumptions. Sure some of what you say is factually true but the conclusions you attach to them are purely a subjective construct.

I'm sorry, but it seems pretty evident across multiple games that a number of studios now are less capable of putting out content than they used to be. Whether it's team sizes, management, infrastructure of the game (like how easy it is to add to) I can't say, but it's pretty hard to deny. I've been there with the sims 4, where I was the one defending about how much content was being added, but I think the criticisms were right and I was wrong.

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

It's better that they don't create roadmap at all if all they put is a rehashed content we know will come every year, first roadmap was good but starting to decline once the second roadmap released.

[kharmin.7683]

People complain and kitten that ANet doesn't release a roadmap.  Then, ANet releases a roadmap and people complain and kitten about it.  No wonder ANet doesn't communicate more frequently.

[Super Hayes.6890]

10 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

People complain and kitten that ANet doesn't release a roadmap.  Then, ANet releases a roadmap and people complain and kitten about it.  No wonder ANet doesn't communicate more frequently.

So much this! A roadmap being released shows they care about keeping the playerbase in the loop. I remember all the time we didn't have roadmaps. We definitely want the roadmaps! Hearing from the devs is sooooo much better than silence.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

 No wonder ANet doesn't communicate more frequently.

That shouldn't even be an issue. Criticisms are to be expected regardless of what it is. Players like to think they all matters. And it's an important way to show the community that Anet actually pay attention to their concerns and do care. There should be more frequent postings in News and Announcements, even if they are very minor items.

[Ausar.9542]

On 10/11/2022 at 7:03 PM, Silent.6137 said:

Often the same people demanding new contents fast are the same ones that critcizes contents as being "rushed". Makes total sense, right? And will be the same ones complaing about achievements being taking too long and being too grindy. They just want Fast, Unrushed and short contents...so, they can ask for more of the same a couple of months later.

No more Griffon courses!!! Just because I say so and sucks at them. Maybe Seige Turtle races that requires 2 players and has to destroy barriers and jump over obstacles with turtle skills to proceed.

Who knew EoD was rushed? Many of us thought Anet was making EoD way before IBS was a thing. If we knew EoD was being rushed the way that it was, many of us would have gratefully waited for the new expansion to be top quality with new useful features. Instead we got what we were given here. A Boring Cantha Expansion 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Ausar.9542

[Ausar.9542]

• October 4—Competitive Profession Balance Update, Jormag Legendary Weapon Skin Variants
• October 14—WvW World Restructuring Beta 6
• October 18—Shadow of the Mad King
• November 4—Extra Life Game Day
• November 8—Living World Season 1 Episode 5: “Battle for Lion’s Arch,” Strike Mission: Old Lion’s Court
• November 29—Profession Balance Update, Primordus Legendary Weapon Skin Variants, Strike Mission: Old Lion’s Court Challenge Mode
• December 13—Wintersday