How long till broken EoD Elite Specs go back to normal?

[Axelteas.7192]

Okay, Anet tuned up the EoD specs to overperform, so lot of people buy the expansion, is understandable.

But I wanna ask, according to past expansions, how long will have to wait to have a real balance between all the specs?

I remember when mirage was broken, a year later was nerfed, the same with oneshot deadeye... Do veteran players recall the usual period of time when anet let the cool kids abuse their broken toys till the party is over?

I's sad when you enjoy playing a core spec, or Hot,Pof, yo want to stay loyal to your playstyle and not play X because is meta... and you're constantly bullied by the new cheesy builds , ahem Harbginger.

Even more sad is when you know you have no chance, you're playing part of a unfair battle and you know it, your oponent knows it, it sucks. For this reason I avoid PVP since EoD was released.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Axelteas.7192

[Tammuz.7361]

2 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Okay, Anet tuned up the EoD specs to overperform, so lot of people buy the expansion, is understandable.

But I wanna ask, according to past expansions, how long will have to wait to have a real balance between all the specs?

I remember when mirage was broken, a year later was nerfed, the same with oneshot deadeye... Do veteran players recall the usual period of time when anet let the cool kids abuse their broken toys till the party is over?

I's sad when you enjoy playing a core spec, or Hot,Pof, yo want to stay loyal to your playstyle and not play X because is meta... and you're constantly bullied by the new cheesy builds , ahem Harbginger.

Even more sad is when you know you have no chance, you're playing part of a unfair battle and you know it, your oponent knows it, it sucks. For this reason I avoid PVP since EoD was released.

Funny, WvW having the exact opposite problem.  EoD has been essentially useless in terms of meta specs thanks to everything being a "physical projectile".

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

To answer your question, it is either 11 days, or it will be in 8 months.  There is no inbetween.  

[Heika.5403]

You only need to look into the past.  So, until the next expansion and the cycle will restart/repeat again.

[Raizel.8175]

Depends on what you call overperforming and which game mode you're observing. I can only really talk about PvE and there are a lot of trashy EoD specs in that regard. What's overperforming is Mechanist - Mechanist is ridiculously overperforming in almost every aspect. All other specs are kind of meh~.

• Specter aka Scourge 2.0 is a somewhat nice cDPS build. Its perfomance as offensive alacrity support is trash as it's far to restrictive to play (you have to at least keep 3 utilities on CD which makes it impossible to use these situational; Teapot actually made a very good video about support imbalance recently).
• Harbinger (as offensive Quickness support) somewhat suffers from the same problems. It's kinda fun to play as cDPS, but due to how it works, it's far less reliable than Scourge which is one of the reasons why almost every Necro player I know switched back to Scourge even though Scourge is left barely viable as is.
• Untamed is utter trash. In theory, it could be a really good DPS, but reality isn't a DPS golem... It's also utterly stupid to bind Alacrity to Spirits (see Specter and Harbinger).
• Catalyst was kinda nice before the initial nerfs. Still suffers from being Elementalist though.
• Bladesworn is basically a one trick pony. Bladesworn basically does what Catalyst was nerfed for - insane burst damage. Don't know why that's fine on Warrior but isn't on Elementalist. Er... Who needs Elementalist in PvE anyway, right? Binding Quickness to banners is also a stupid idea (see the examples mentioned above).
• Vindicator only really became a thing after getting a second dodge. It's nice to play, but still suffers from some design issues. Like most Revenant builds, CDs don't align properly to make for a nice free-flowing rotation, especially Eternity's Requiem doesn't nicely line up with Legend swaps. The dodge also needs its animation shortened so you actually "feel" when your iFrame ends - that ones quite a problem at bosses like VG/Cairn and the like.
• Willbender is utterly useless. It's a nice and easy to play cDPS build, but has no use whatsoever apart of being DPS.
• Virtuosu is the only real outlier besides Mechanist and even then only in (c) DPS potential. Apart from pure DPS, Virtuosu isn't all that amazing.

TL;DR: EoD specs aren't all that great - at least in PvE. Mechanist only distorts the view on EoD specs due to being massively overpowered.

[soul.9651]

Well they havent fixed PoF broken ones either still

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I have zero expectation that Anet will ever find a sense of balance between the professions and game modes. I have little to no expectation that they actually care about the state of balance in this game. As long as ‘some’ professions and especs are viable, then it appears they are happy to continue durdeling along with no vision or direction.  
 

Now I believe that having that expectation is easy when there are 27 eSpecs plus Core housing maybe 100 or more viable builds. I don’t see Anet caring about many of those builds even if they wanted to, and historically they have left the profession balance in unhealthy states for long periods of time over the past 5 years, so really this is nothing new, just standard operating procedure for them. 

[Svarty.8019]

32 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I have zero expectation that Anet will ever find a sense of balance between the professions and game modes. I have little to no expectation that they actually care about the state of balance in this game. As long as ‘some’ people buy gem store stuff, then it appears they are happy to continue durdeling along with no vision or direction.  

Fixed it for you.

[Gwynnion.7364]

1 hour ago, Raizel.8175 said:

TL;DR: EoD specs aren't all that great - at least in PvE. Mechanist only distorts the view on EoD specs due to being massively overpowered.

Yeah, they basically introduced a bunch of DPS specs that could also kinda do group support and then nerfed their support ability either by design or after the fact. 

Except Mechanist.  And Mechanist has persisted mainly because it's easy, everything is pre-loaded onto traits and signets you're going to use anyway.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

I feel like most EoD especs are pretty balanced, if not underperforming (in some game modes). Mechanist and virtuoso offer decent dps in pve, but it isn't necessarily OP anymore. Bladesworn and harbinger do have a high benchmark, but often have major dps drops in suboptimal situations. Catalyst and untamed have got potential but are unreliable in practise. Willbender and vindicator both are rarely played in PvE and got a relatively low bench. Specter is decent, but atm definitely not OP. 

 

For WvW the only EoD Espec you see in zergs is a vindi (and still isn't the meta though). 

 

Most of the EoD especs are actually sPvP focussed. Harbinger/cata/willbender/vindi all offer fast paced close combat. Its does make sense that those especs therefore are in a good spot for the current even meta

[Infusion.7149]

• Bladesworn is a golem spec for the most part. It was used in PVP in conjunction with shouts but Tactical Reload no longer recharges shouts. The Dragon Slash damage in competitive modes is less than core bursts and always has been underwhelming.
• Willbender is mostly an offmeta PVP mobility spec. Alacrity willbender is not a strong archetype due to reliability. Just about every guardian in largescale WVW is some firebrand or DH if not core guardian.
• Vindicator is kind of broken only in PVP/WVW after the double dodge addition, but I believed they hotfixed it by halving all the dodge related effects.
• Specter was gutted in a PVP sense and in PVE it mostly taken for DPS (you can still use Carrion or Ritualist gear). Alacrity is awkward due to reliance on well spam. It won't be strong in largescale WvW due to mainly condition focus , in addition to inability to be healed in shroud even if some shroud power coefficients are decent: your best power weapon on a specter is probably sword (staff daredevil is a far better pick in terms of DPS).
• Untamed is mostly a PVP spec, understandably. Supposedly untamed traitline replaced the core ranger valk archetype. You're realistically not going to do the damage as high as benchmarkers do and in WVW using pets is still a liability.
• Mechanist is often seen in PVE as a "HAM", far less as cDPS. "HAM" had its passive and active barriers severely reduced already and that's fundamentally the only main difference to heal scrapper (defense field gives stab so ultimately in contrast Crisis Zone gives you additional Aegis). Rifle mech is still rather strong due to how Arenanet added autocasts. It's fairly useless in WVW outside of extremely smallscale engagements due to pathing (melee mech) and projectile denial (ranged mech). 
• Virtuoso is mostly a PVE DPS spec, with a low intensity PVE cDPS build. The power version is essentially core mesmer pDPS but without clones. It's still projectile based so it is unlikely to ever see play in WvW as it is.
• Harbinger sees quite a bit of use in PVP but not in largescale WVW due to projectiles. In PvE it isn't as consistent as scourge but the basic shroud condi DPS damage is akin to 27K if I recall correctly.
• Catalyst is still a disaster unless you are adept at using it. It's mostly a PVP spec used by ele mains, I highly doubt bandwagoners jumped on it. 

The only real outlier right now is probably rifle mechanist in PVE and not in terms of benchmark DPS. It could easily be more balanced in terms of a ranged build by slightly reducing the damage on ranged mech (to increase the difference between the default melee mech and the ranged one) and removing autocasts to increase user input. This isn't a high priority for Arenanet.

[Carnifex.3275]

13 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Okay, Anet tuned up the EoD specs to overperform, so lot of people buy the expansion, is understandable.

But I wanna ask, according to past expansions, how long will have to wait to have a real balance between all the specs?

I remember when mirage was broken, a year later was nerfed, the same with oneshot deadeye... Do veteran players recall the usual period of time when anet let the cool kids abuse their broken toys till the party is over?

I's sad when you enjoy playing a core spec, or Hot,Pof, yo want to stay loyal to your playstyle and not play X because is meta... and you're constantly bullied by the new cheesy builds , ahem Harbginger.

Even more sad is when you know you have no chance, you're playing part of a unfair battle and you know it, your oponent knows it, it sucks. For this reason I avoid PVP since EoD was released.

I guess it really depends which class are u playing. Personally for me EOD was a downgrade. Elite specs for me almost don't exist and those specs aren't strong enough to compete with HoT/PoF specs 😄 so if u nerf them even more.. oh well, it'll be even more trash. The worst part is that they also shaved down hot/pof specs before EOD and still some of them are just better. So hopefully they'll either buff EOD specs or unnerf hot/pof specs.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Carnifex.3275

[soul.9651]

How about they start fixing the meta by making specializations actually specialized in one thing and not multiple, why some specs can be good at multiple things and have multiple meta builds meanwhile others have only one or are off meta alltogether. I cant wait for their balance philosophy explaining this -.-

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Wait until Friday, then you should have some idea of what direction they are going.  

Not that it'll be agreeable, but it will be a direction.  

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:53 PM, soul.9651 said:

Well they havent fixed PoF broken ones either still

No, no, no. They haven't fixed HoT mess still, PoF isn't even on radar not mentioning EoD.

[Avatara.1042]

Catalyst is still a dumpster fire and an orthopedic hand specialist's wet dream.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:34 AM, Axelteas.7192 said:

Okay, Anet tuned up the EoD specs to overperform, so lot of people buy the expansion, is understandable.

But I wanna ask, according to past expansions, how long will have to wait to have a real balance between all the specs?

I remember when mirage was broken, a year later was nerfed, the same with oneshot deadeye... Do veteran players recall the usual period of time when anet let the cool kids abuse their broken toys till the party is over?

I's sad when you enjoy playing a core spec, or Hot,Pof, yo want to stay loyal to your playstyle and not play X because is meta... and you're constantly bullied by the new cheesy builds , ahem Harbginger.

Even more sad is when you know you have no chance, you're playing part of a unfair battle and you know it, your oponent knows it, it sucks. For this reason I avoid PVP since EoD was released.

I'll tell ya. When the 4th expansion comes up and we do this song and dance again...

[Inquisitor Thomas.6910]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:33 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

• Bladesworn is a golem spec for the most part. It was used in PVP in conjunction with shouts but Tactical Reload no longer recharges shouts. The Dragon Slash damage in competitive modes is less than core bursts and always has been underwhelming.
• Willbender is mostly an offmeta PVP mobility spec. Alacrity willbender is not a strong archetype due to reliability. Just about every guardian in largescale WVW is some firebrand or DH if not core guardian.
• Vindicator is kind of broken only in PVP/WVW after the double dodge addition, but I believed they hotfixed it by halving all the dodge related effects.
• Specter was gutted in a PVP sense and in PVE it mostly taken for DPS (you can still use Carrion or Ritualist gear). Alacrity is awkward due to reliance on well spam. It won't be strong in largescale WvW due to mainly condition focus , in addition to inability to be healed in shroud even if some shroud power coefficients are decent: your best power weapon on a specter is probably sword (staff daredevil is a far better pick in terms of DPS).
• Untamed is mostly a PVP spec, understandably. Supposedly untamed traitline replaced the core ranger valk archetype. You're realistically not going to do the damage as high as benchmarkers do and in WVW using pets is still a liability.
• Mechanist is often seen in PVE as a "HAM", far less as cDPS. "HAM" had its passive and active barriers severely reduced already and that's fundamentally the only main difference to heal scrapper (defense field gives stab so ultimately in contrast Crisis Zone gives you additional Aegis). Rifle mech is still rather strong due to how Arenanet added autocasts. It's fairly useless in WVW outside of extremely smallscale engagements due to pathing (melee mech) and projectile denial (ranged mech). 
• Virtuoso is mostly a PVE DPS spec, with a low intensity PVE cDPS build. The power version is essentially core mesmer pDPS but without clones. It's still projectile based so it is unlikely to ever see play in WvW as it is.
• Harbinger sees quite a bit of use in PVP but not in largescale WVW due to projectiles. In PvE it isn't as consistent as scourge but the basic shroud condi DPS damage is akin to 27K if I recall correctly.
• Catalyst is still a disaster unless you are adept at using it. It's mostly a PVP spec used by ele mains, I highly doubt bandwagoners jumped on it. 

The only real outlier right now is probably rifle mechanist in PVE and not in terms of benchmark DPS. It could easily be more balanced in terms of a ranged build by slightly reducing the damage on ranged mech (to increase the difference between the default melee mech and the ranged one) and removing autocasts to increase user input. This isn't a high priority for Arenanet.

100% agree. Mechanist is the only one people complain about. My willbender struggles in both pve and wvw group content. 

[Lysico.4906]

If your wb is bad that is 100% on you

[solemn.9670]

Roughly 2-3 years to balance all professions reasonably.

Speaking as a vet, no exaggeration. Yes, really.

[solemn.9670]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:57 AM, Inquisitor Thomas.6910 said:

100% agree. Mechanist is the only one people complain about. My willbender struggles in both pve and wvw group content. 

This is 100% on you. It's absurdly easy 😅

[solemn.9670]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:49 PM, Avatara.1042 said:

Catalyst is still a dumpster fire and an orthopedic hand specialist's wet dream.

Agree with your latter statement, not the former, I'm not sure how exactly we can have both those who complain about cata being insanely overpowered and also those who say it's unusable at the same time? Something is wrong here 🤔

[MrChatters.9461]

Broken?

The only very broken spec we currently have comes from HoT, and I happened to get evidences while watching a buddy streaming a casual Dragon's End meta event:

 

Screenshot of the evidence

 

See? It's astonishing, seriously underrated.

Scrapper has it all, please anet nerf asap. How dare he taking part in the top half of the dps chart? That's an aberration for the eyes.

 

Never seen something so meta-defining, ever.

[Serephen.3420]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:40 AM, solemn.9670 said:

Agree with your latter statement, not the former, I'm not sure how exactly we can have both those who complain about cata being insanely overpowered and also those who say it's unusable at the same time? Something is wrong here 🤔

Different game modes. Though I haven't seen anyone calling it op, maybe strong in pvp but definitely not op.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Serephen.3420

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:34 PM, Axelteas.7192 said:

Okay, Anet tuned up the EoD specs to overperform, so lot of people buy the expansion, is understandable.

But I wanna ask, according to past expansions, how long will have to wait to have a real balance between all the specs?

I remember when mirage was broken, a year later was nerfed, the same with oneshot deadeye... Do veteran players recall the usual period of time when anet let the cool kids abuse their broken toys till the party is over?

I's sad when you enjoy playing a core spec, or Hot,Pof, yo want to stay loyal to your playstyle and not play X because is meta... and you're constantly bullied by the new cheesy builds , ahem Harbginger.

Even more sad is when you know you have no chance, you're playing part of a unfair battle and you know it, your oponent knows it, it sucks. For this reason I avoid PVP since EoD was released.

So? your talking about PVP.  Not WvW and PVE because those are two different animals.