Ranger Nov 29th changes (updated)

[Beddo.1907]

Ranger

Untamed is one of the specializations that struggles the most against defiant enemies, as a lot of its kit is built around capitalizing against targets that are crowd controlled. As part of a larger pass, we've adjusted these skills to always inflict their bonuses against defiant enemies to make them more reliable in endgame PvE content. We've also made some improvements to the non-Unleashed side of the hammer kit to improve its defensive capabilities. Fervent Force is a trait that we're likely to bring down in a future update, but we want to improve other options for untamed before doing so.

In PvP, we've brought down the drake family's Chomp damage, primarily targeting the burst potential that it brings to untamed builds.

Rounding out the ranger updates are some improvements to druid's healing in WvW. We've seen more druids being played since the October update, but we think it could still use a slight bump to solidify its place as a viable support pick.

Core

• Chomp (Drake Family): Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.455 in PvP only.
• Predator's Onslaught: The bonus damage from this trait will now always affect defiant foes.
• Farsighted: Fixed an issue that prevented this trait from properly affecting some skills

Druid

• Astral Wisp: Increased heal attribute scaling from 0.1 to 0.2 in WvW only.
• Ancestral Grace: Increased heal attribute scaling from 1.0 to 1.5 in WvW only.
• Ancient Seeds: This skill will now trigger against defiant foes in addition to its previous effects.

Untamed

• The following skills now also apply their bonus effect against defiant enemies:
  • Venomous Outburst
  • Rending Vines
  • Enveloping Haze
  • Unleashed Wild Swing
  • Unleashed Savage Shock Wave
• Perilous Gift: This skill no longer prevents lethal damage, and instead it prevents all incoming strike and condition damage for its duration.
• Relentless Whirl: Increased stability from 1 stack for 2 seconds to 2 stacks for 3 seconds.
• Wild Swing: This skill now grants barrier when striking an enemy.
• Overbearing Smash: This skill now grants barrier when striking an enemy that is using a skill. Reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Unleashed Overbearing Smash: Reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Savage Shock Wave: The first strike of this skill now applies weakness instead of immobilize. The second strike of this skill now applies immobilize instead of weakness. This skill now grants protection to the user. Reduced casting time from 1 second to 0.75 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Unleashed Savage Shock Wave: Reduced casting time from 1 second to 0.75 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Thump: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Unleashed Thump: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Restorative Strikes: This trait now also grants protection when you or your pet unleash.
• Debilitating Blows: This trait now applies poison instead of vulnerability and slow instead of weakness when disabling a foe based on your current state in PvE only.
• Ferocious Symbiosis: Increased damage bonus per stack from 3% to 4% in PvE only.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Beddo.1907

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Yeah, pretty good. Untamed will be better for zerg play now.👾

[Gotejjeken.1267]

The changes to Drake and Druid are so random it's hilarious.  Balancing around memes here.

Untamed hammer changes are fine, but it's still way too slow to use anywhere but possibly a zerg scenario (maybe that was the intent but wasn't stated).  Problem with zerg scenarios is anet always neglects that the pet is the liability here, so smart people will just run melee soulbeast anyway.  

In addition, we MAY see Untamed now as a node camper in sPvP but not because of hammer--that Perilous Gift change is more than slightly out of line for a heal skill that's on a 30s CD.  Still trying to understand why on Untamed of all things to change this, when it worked as intended, much like a more forgiving A.E.D.  

[Levetty.1279]

I understand why they want to nerf Fervent Force but doing that without a complete rework to Untamed will kill the spec.  Untamed isn't an elite spec it is just Fervent Force, the rest of the kit just isn't that great and not particularly fun or interesting to play. You can't fix that with just number tweaks.

[Infusion.7149]

No druid pet stow but it's a PVE patch...

The addition of barrier onto untamed hammer is kind of baffling also. It will ultimately depend on the amount of barrier as to whether it changes the gameplay. A CC spec with a vitality modifier and an optional damage to healing trait doesn't need barrier output so long as there isn't a defiance bar really.

[Brasides.9360]

53 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I understand why they want to nerf Fervent Force but doing that without a complete rework to Untamed will kill the spec.  Untamed isn't an elite spec it is just Fervent Force, the rest of the kit just isn't that great and not particularly fun or interesting to play. You can't fix that with just number tweaks.

+1 to this. I picked up a ranger only because I saw Fervent Force and was intrigued with the trait. Otherwise it seems like for PvE you are just lining up burst for soulbeast, which doesn't seem all that hard or engaging.

Killing Fervent Force seems like it would be pretty well in line with the philosophy in practice I'm seeing in these notes, and the direction seems to be:

high skill/apm builds ===> nerf

low skill/apm builds ===> buff

Is anyone else seeing a trend away from high engagement builds? Maybe someone with more experience as ranger can offer some counter examples, I'd love to see them.

[EvilZombie.6801]

Yes ranger rejoice we are still 1500 range sinper haha

[Valfar.3761]

As aforementioned, Fervent Force is the only really notable thing about Untamed. The Ambush skills don't do enough to be worth switching back and forth for. You can't use your pet abilities while in Unleashed Pet state, so there is no reason to go outside of Unleashed Ranger unless you are wielding a hammer, and only because Hammer gets slightly different skills while in Unleashed Pet state. The other two grandmaster traits don't transform your gameplay like Fervent Force does, and one of them is practically useless (Restorative Strikes). The spec needs a rework to live up to the name of being an elite spec that truly transforms your gameplay, rather than just being core ranger+ with slightly higher DPS than just 3 vanilla ranger specs.

[Doggie.3184]

All I really want from Ranger is Soulbeast Aura to fade away. 

[Zaret.1450]

13 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

As aforementioned, Fervent Force is the only really notable thing about Untamed. The Ambush skills don't do enough to be worth switching back and forth for. You can't use your pet abilities while in Unleashed Pet state, so there is no reason to go outside of Unleashed Ranger unless you are wielding a hammer, and only because Hammer gets slightly different skills while in Unleashed Pet state. The other two grandmaster traits don't transform your gameplay like Fervent Force does, and one of them is practically useless (Restorative Strikes). The spec needs a rework to live up to the name of being an elite spec that truly transforms your gameplay, rather than just being core ranger+ with slightly higher DPS than just 3 vanilla ranger specs.

Reading you i thougt of something, the ambush skills work on the autoattack, if theybinstead worked on a different skill they could be better, say for example gs, it makes a circular cleave around ripping boons, if instead of the auto it was on gs2, and you allwais had it wile unleashed, like hammer, normal gs2 non unleashed, ambush gs2 while unleased(maybe a bit higher cd, like a couple seconds more), that would make untamed more consistent and feel a bit diferent, also untamed needs a true sinergy, give the pet more dmg while it is unleashed and make it receive less dmg while not unleashed.

Would that work? or maybe it needs something else?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Rounding out the ranger updates are some improvements to druid's healing in WvW. We've seen more druids being played since the October update, but we think it could still use a slight bump to solidify its place as a viable support pick.   

 

Uhhh.....wut? I havent seen any changes to the # of druids in WvW and im on for ~6-8h a day. Id like to know if its maybe EU then thats playing it more xD

[Arheundel.6451]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:33 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The changes to Drake and Druid are so random it's hilarious.  Balancing around memes here.

Untamed hammer changes are fine, but it's still way too slow to use anywhere but possibly a zerg scenario (maybe that was the intent but wasn't stated).  Problem with zerg scenarios is anet always neglects that the pet is the liability here, so smart people will just run melee soulbeast anyway.  

In addition, we MAY see Untamed now as a node camper in sPvP but not because of hammer--that Perilous Gift change is more than slightly out of line for a heal skill that's on a 30s CD.  Still trying to understand why on Untamed of all things to change this, when it worked as intended, much like a more forgiving A.E.D.  

The change to perilous gift is in line with other broken builds in the game like distortion virtuoso, healing vindicator and others....I am all for levelling the playing field, fairness should be talked about when it is applied to everybody equally

[Levetty.1279]

kitten I misheard them on the stream and thought they were adding the barrier to Unleashed Wild Swing, kittening pointless on the non unleashed one.  If this is an example of how they are going to 'improve other options' then Untamed really is going to be dead when they remove Fervent Force.

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

kitten I misheard them on the stream and thought they were adding the barrier to Unleashed Wild Swing, kittening pointless on the non unleashed one.  If this is an example of how they are going to 'improve other options' then Untamed really is going to be dead when they remove Fervent Force.

That's why they are going to do more changes before FF is gone.
Basic hammer is the defensive version, so barrier being there is way more logical that the offensive version.

[Mauti.3520]

I like it. Healthy little Patch for my Ranger

Some small Staff Buffs for WvW increase the output of Support Druid when Avatar is on CD. Ancient Seeds could be a first little step to make Cele/Hybrid Alac Druids a thing in PvE. Not having Ancient Seeds at your disposal on Bosses limited it's DPS capabilities.

Untamed becomes an even scarier beast, in particular the Power ones in PvE while the Hammer changes can help to make Hammer Untamed a thing in PvP

No Buffs/Nerfs to Soulbeast. It remains Ranger's simplistic but brutally effective DPS Spec.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Mauti.3520

[Substance E.4852]

Nothing ground breaking but at least we didn't become objectively worse which is a monumental achievement for the balance team

Untamed is still DOA in WvW though

No amount of AoE spam on hammer is going to change this

The pet will still die instantly in anything more than 10 v 10 and melee hammer aoe will always be worse than ranged Rev hammer aoe

GS/A-A soulbeast is still gonna out perform it, even more so now that we can swap fused pets

They either need to retool the spec completely or just abandon their goals of making it our "WvW spec" and focus on improving the viability of druid. Even just getting a single slot in a guild group to babysit the commander is still better than being told to bring another class

[Infusion.7149]

@Substance E, forget about Untamed... druid needs pet stow in WvW.

[Levetty.1279]

3 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

That's why they are going to do more changes before FF is gone.

I covered that in my post, thanks for not reading it before replying to it.

[Beddo.1907]

8 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I covered that in my post, thanks for not reading it before replying to it.

Let me rephrase that "That's why they will add more bigger and meaningful changes before removing FF". Barrier on defensive hammer is more logical and I don't see why do you see it as a bad change.

Also you pointed out only one of the changes and instantly called Untamed a dead spec.

[Zaret.1450]

13 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Nothing ground breaking but at least we didn't become objectively worse which is a monumental achievement for the balance team

Untamed is still DOA in WvW though

No amount of AoE spam on hammer is going to change this

The pet will still die instantly in anything more than 10 v 10 and melee hammer aoe will always be worse than ranged Rev hammer aoe

GS/A-A soulbeast is still gonna out perform it, even more so now that we can swap fused pets

They either need to retool the spec completely or just abandon their goals of making it our "WvW spec" and focus on improving the viability of druid. Even just getting a single slot in a guild group to babysit the commander is still better than being told to bring another class

As far as i have seen not only pets are incredibly nerfed in wvw, but also all pets have bugs in their health pools, when you look at pet stats you see that allwais the stats indicate, for example 28k health on a pet, and then the pet actual health is 26k, im not talking about vitality, but the health stat, either the stat display or the health display are wrong (also the fliing plant has more health than the smokescale but the stat display sais otherwise? strange).

also think that pet stats and boons are stuck behind beastmastery and nature magic, meaning? you either lack dmg because you take nature magic, or your pet lacks every single boon in this game, wich means its allwais gonna explode.

outside of that, untammed isnt that bad, true it is better used with axes than with longbow for example, and hammer is more difficult to use than gs, but ambush skills are good, tye problem is that they have a timer and also theyre in the auto attack.

So make beastmastery give pet boons instead of nature magic, tweak a bit pets health and bugs, make ambush skills be on the 2 skill slot (i think most ambushes are upgraded weapon 2 skills if you look carefully) and make ambushes just unleash attacks, i mean like hammer skills, the skill is there while unleashed and dissapears when you unleash pet.

Only that would make untammed much more reliable, if you made unleash buffs work on unramed and pet (the dmg increase or dmg reduction buffs) then youd have a great spec

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Let me rephrase that "That's why they will add more bigger and meaningful changes before removing FF". Barrier on defensive hammer is more logical and I don't see why do you see it as a bad change.

Also you pointed out only one of the changes and instantly called Untamed a dead spec.

Let me repeat that because you still seem to not want to read posts you are responding too.  If this is an example of how they are going to 'improve other options' then Untamed really is going to be dead when they remove Fervent Force.

[Beddo.1907]

23 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Let me repeat that because you still seem to not want to read posts you are responding too.  If this is an example of how they are going to 'improve other options' then Untamed really is going to be dead when they remove Fervent Force.

Ok tell me how is this an example of a bad/insufficient change? 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Let me repeat that because you still seem to not want to read posts you are responding too.  If this is an example of how they are going to 'improve other options' then Untamed really is going to be dead when they remove Fervent Force.

 

In PvE maybe--but Untamed was always dead there.  No matter what they change, I don't see how Untamed competes with Soulbeast for easy DPS or Druid for support.  

The barrier change seems entirely competitive minded, and it is welcome there from my perspective.  It instantly makes hammer feel better to use as you can do the bruiser thing without melting from all the trap/well/clone/etc. spam you get in melee range now.  

My suggestion for future is to speed up the spec somehow--need a trait like Druid's Natural Stride or a mechanic like Soulbeasts merge + BM.  As I get Untamed is brusier spec, but they even know it needs to be mobile in today's climate (see: UT).  

Outside of this, competitively, the spec is coming into a good place.  They can remove FF and it won't matter for 2/3 game modes, and as covered, for the third the spec just doesn't even matter.  That may disappoint some people that only do PvE and want a different way to play Ranger, but Untamed literally was designed only for competitive (for whatever reason).

 

11 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

As far as i have seen not only pets are incredibly nerfed in wvw, but also all pets have bugs in their health pools, when you look at pet stats you see that allwais the stats indicate, for example 28k health on a pet, and then the pet actual health is 26k...

<snip>

 

Pets do need some serious attention, but now it's complicated with Mech.  I think they said pathing will never be fixed, but they can at least make sure the HP totals are correct and for the love of all that is holy make the F2 responsive again.  Ever since the auto-attack implementation I've had to spam F2 repeatedly in both PvP and WvW to get it to actually function (don't play much PvE but assuming same there).

[Substance E.4852]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:12 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

@Substance E, forget about Untamed... druid needs pet stow in WvW.

Aside from veil pushes, it wouldn't change much

Druid more or less completely ignores the pet and that's a good thing

Nudging Anet to give us more team support in exchange for less personal sustain and pet pressure means the Druid gets better at what it;s meant to do without risking nerfs from OP solo builds like we've dealt with for the last several years since PoF

[Arheundel.6451]

19 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Aside from veil pushes, it wouldn't change much

Druid more or less completely ignores the pet and that's a good thing

Nudging Anet to give us more team support in exchange for less personal sustain and pet pressure means the Druid gets better at what it;s meant to do without risking nerfs from OP solo builds like we've dealt with for the last several years since PoF

Without good personal sustain...you can't hope to be a good support, nobody cares for how much you can heal if you die the moment you get focused, cutting druid self-sustain even more now..would catapult the whole elite into the trash bin.