Nov 29 engineer changes

[Kuma.1503]

11 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

 Still almost perma alac for a ham but now it needs to press buttons once in a while.

I think you're confusing HAM with Rifle mech... 

HAM is not a simple build. It juggles 3 kits and has quite a few combos to learn. The alacrity generation is simple, but you will not be able to get away with auto attacking with mace for the entire fight in any semi-challenging content. Contrary to popular belief. 

There is also a greater emphasis on mech management with HAM because the bot is the source of your boons. Not the player. Important because you will need to baby sit the bot if you wish to stab/aegis your group through mechanics or cast barrier burst. 

This nerf that people are claiming will make mech less "brain-dead" is already a must for HAM players. If anything forcing players to stack on their bot 24/7 and dis-incentivizing them to split on occasion to do mechanics reduces the skill-cap. 

It brings HAM's power down, but it does not make them more skillful to play. At least in this specific context. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Artemis.8034]

I think the prob with this is the pet AI is terrible you have to spam come to me constantly anyway I want scrapper to be the next meta.

[Phyrak.7260]

Maybe I'm an odd one out in wanting to use the mech as a pseudo mount/weapon platform.

Have J-drive trait as the F5 ride the mech and use the mech skills as a replacement for 1-5; with someway to give more flexibility to 6-9 utility 

"Reactor online, sensors online, weapons online. All systems nominal."

Edited November 23, 2022 by Phyrak.7260

[shion.2084]

Yeah, I'd originally hoped they were giving a power suit exo-skeleton rather than some pet.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

You know, I just realized that the recent mech change is going to put a big dent in my Dual Pistol Condi Mech build.  I know it is more of a meme than a serious build, but the disengaged DPS will now slow to a crawl.

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

You know, I just realized that the recent mech change is going to put a big dent in my Dual Pistol Condi Mech build.  I know it is more of a meme than a serious build, but the disengaged DPS will now slow to a crawl.

Yeah, the change is generally bad for build diversity, since it hard forces the mech and engineer to stay at the same range.

Condi mech + dual pistol? You better stay at melee range with the mech to not tank your damage.
Ranged mech + mace/shield? You have to force your mech into melee with you, negating it's ranged advantage.
Knuckles mech + rifle? You now have to sit on the lap of the enemy as well.

They want to make mechanist more difficult to play, but I really think this is the wrong way to do it. It will be annoying and limits build combinations.

Only hope is that the change will get extreme backlash once it goes live because of how clunky it makes the mechanist feel and that they revert that change.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Phyrak.7260]

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Yeah, the change is generally bad for build diversity, since it hard forces the mech and engineer to stay at the same range.

Condi mech + dual pistol? You better stay at melee range with the mech to not tank your damage.
Ranged mech + mace/shield? You have to force your mech into melee with you, negating it's ranged advantage.
Knuckles mech + rifle? You now have to sit on the lap of the enemy as well.

They want to make mechanist more difficult to play, but I really think this is the wrong way to do it. It will be annoying and limits build combinations.

Only hope is that the change will get extreme backlash once it goes live because of how clunky it makes the mechanist feel and that they revert that change.

Here's a 'mech-minded' solution while riding the mech.

Mech attack skills from the nominal tiers change 1,3 and 5.

Depending on the engineers equipped weapons - attacks 2 and 4 show a mechanised version of the attack.

Eg. Shield block becomes a stronger blast with stun or aegis associated with it 

Rifle knock back becomes a charged sniper shot with stun 

Though - these are two hard cc examples 

Having traits from the mechanist line link somehow into core would be a way to exploit this mech driver mindset moreso.

Eg. J-drive uses the explosives line to make further use of the whole riding a mech and the skills therein; the call back to mech warrior at heart 

Channeling conduits should either use inventions or alchemy as a loop back to core.

 

Instead of the drinking animation of elixirs, the mech would be flushed with the chemical mixture, causing a rush of power - blah blah blah; this is what would make sense lore wise and allow normal skill trees to be used while driving the mech 

Hopefully this will somehow reach one of the Devs

Mechanist really needs to become a mech driver rather than a baby sitter

This would also open up the way for other future e-specs to be mounted or in combat with a companion of greater stature

[Kodama.6453]

10 minutes ago, Phyrak.7260 said:

Here's a 'mech-minded' solution while riding the mech.

Mech attack skills from the nominal tiers change 1,3 and 5.

Depending on the engineers equipped weapons - attacks 2 and 4 show a mechanised version of the attack.

Eg. Shield block becomes a stronger blast with stun or aegis associated with it 

Rifle knock back becomes a charged sniper shot with stun 

Though - these are two hard cc examples 

Having traits from the mechanist line link somehow into core would be a way to exploit this mech driver mindset moreso.

Eg. J-drive uses the explosives line to make further use of the whole riding a mech and the skills therein; the call back to mech warrior at heart 

Channeling conduits should either use inventions or alchemy as a loop back to core.

 

Instead of the drinking animation of elixirs, the mech would be flushed with the chemical mixture, causing a rush of power - blah blah blah; this is what would make sense lore wise and allow normal skill trees to be used while driving the mech 

Hopefully this will somehow reach one of the Devs

Mechanist really needs to become a mech driver rather than a baby sitter

This would also open up the way for other future e-specs to be mounted or in combat with a companion of greater stature

While that concept is pretty creative, it is still terrible for build diversity.

If you make the mech traits inherit some of the core trait lines for that "loop back", like one using the explosives trait line and another the alchemy trait line, then you are basically marrying these traits with their specific trait line, meaning that if you use the trait associated with explosives then you MUST take explosives in your build.

[Kuma.1503]

For PvP, I'm disapointed that Scrapper got so little after it got obliterated last patch. 

CMC acts surprised that a build that was already underperforming compared to the likes of Herald, Catalyst, and Harbinger (all of which still have quickness btw) is suddenly unplayed after it completely loses quickness. 

Yes, that generally happens when you gut something that wasn't THAT good to begin with, and these very conservative buffs will do very little to change that. Scrapper is back to living in Holosmith's shadow as per the usual. 

 

Speaking of Holo... it was already making a resurgence in play. These buffs may end up breaking it. They're very welcome for PvE, but it strikes me as odd, that they would buff Holo so hard when it was already the best PVP Engi build, while being terrified to give scrapper much of anything. 

Design wise, I like them. Rewarding players for staying above 100 heat, and making that consistent across its kit is something that should have existed at its launch. Better late than never. 

 

For Mech... This nerf is fine, but I predict that it will highlight an issue that wasn't very obvious before for a lot of players. The AI sucks. The terrible AI is masked by the fact that the player really doesn't need to manage their mech very much unless they play HAM. Now, players will start to feel the frustration when the bot doesn't quite do what you want it to. 

One simple change to make this change work, while still forcing players to think about how their mech is positioned is to do the following:

• If you tap "Return to me" the button acts as it does now
• If you hold "Return to me" You can target a location, and the mech will stand there and "Patrol" that area. 

When patrolling, it will exibit typical NPC behavior that you'd see in other MMOs. It will stand there until and enemy comes close, then it will attack it. Once the enemy is dead it will return to that spot. When in passive, it will just stand there ignoring enemies until you tell it to attack. 

This keeps the nerf which forces players to be cognizant of their mech's positioning, but takes away the frustration of dealing with the poor GW2 AI. Sometimes the mech doesn't stack where you want it to, and it forces you to burn shift signet to compensate for the AI's refusal to do what you tell it to. I don't think that's good design. 

Shift signet should be for quick repositioning. It shouldn't be a band-aid for poor design. 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Phyrak.7260]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:47 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

While that concept is pretty creative, it is still terrible for build diversity.

If you make the mech traits inherit some of the core trait lines for that "loop back", like one using the explosives trait line and another the alchemy trait line, then you are basically marrying these traits with their specific trait line, meaning that if you use the trait associated with explosives then you MUST take explosives in your build.

Fair call there 🙂

I guess it was an in-between thought of sorts to get more life out of the mechanist e-spec

[lorddarkflare.9186]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:27 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Yeah, the change is generally bad for build diversity, since it hard forces the mech and engineer to stay at the same range.

Condi mech + dual pistol? You better stay at melee range with the mech to not tank your damage.
Ranged mech + mace/shield? You have to force your mech into melee with you, negating it's ranged advantage.
Knuckles mech + rifle? You now have to sit on the lap of the enemy as well.

They want to make mechanist more difficult to play, but I really think this is the wrong way to do it. It will be annoying and limits build combinations.

Only hope is that the change will get extreme backlash once it goes live because of how clunky it makes the mechanist feel and that they revert that change.

 

I will say that I have been checking myself quite a bit since the nerf was announced and I find myself comfortably playing in the same range as the mech most of the time without issue. Open world honestly is the only time I consistently play out of the mech's range.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

 

I will say that I have been checking myself quite a bit since the nerf was announced and I find myself comfortably playing in the same range as the mech most of the time without issue. Open world honestly is the only time I consistently play out of the mech's range.

During instanced content, you usually will play in the mechs range because you are stacking there to receive boons and healing anyway, yes.

But this change will affect mechanist as a whole, not just during instanced PvE. It will have major impact in environments like WvW, PvP and open world. And it might end up making the spec very annoying to play. We will have to see how it plays out, but I think I will get annoyed alot by this "mechanic".

[Alcatraznc.3869]

4 hours ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

 

I will say that I have been checking myself quite a bit since the nerf was announced and I find myself comfortably playing in the same range as the mech most of the time without issue. Open world honestly is the only time I consistently play out of the mech's range.

 

Pretty much anything goes in OW which is why it is dumb to balance around that gamemode. I can play clerical double pistol thief and get away with it. In group content you will stack with the team for the boon in which case it is going to be melee pretty much 100% of the time. And if you play Mech in PvP or WvW.....well do your best being useful at something I guess.

[Zzik.5873]

On 11/19/2022 at 10:28 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

No druid can not. Alac only happens around the druid. Besides the mech does not stop functioning. it just provides less boons and does less dps. Still almost perma alac for a ham but now it needs to press buttons once in a while.

The horror!

Yeah try going afk on support mech and see if your group still survive. Power mechanist is a mostly afk build yeah. Sipport mechanist... not even close, go and play support mechanist in raid and then comeback talking about how afk you where. -_-

[Ghos.1326]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:12 PM, shion.2084 said:

Yeah, I'd originally hoped they were giving a power suit exo-skeleton rather than some pet.

If they didn't already have holosmith I'd be in favor of this.

[Ghos.1326]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:43 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

For PvP, I'm disapointed that Scrapper got so little after it got obliterated last patch. 

CMC acts surprised that a build that was already underperforming compared to the likes of Herald, Catalyst, and Harbinger (all of which still have quickness btw) is suddenly unplayed after it completely loses quickness. 

Yes, that generally happens when you gut something that wasn't THAT good to begin with, and these very conservative buffs will do very little to change that. Scrapper is back to living in Holosmith's shadow as per the usual. 

 

Speaking of Holo... it was already making a resurgence in play. These buffs may end up breaking it. They're very welcome for PvE, but it strikes me as odd, that they would buff Holo so hard when it was already the best PVP Engi build, while being terrified to give scrapper much of anything. 

Design wise, I like them. Rewarding players for staying above 100 heat, and making that consistent across its kit is something that should have existed at its launch. Better late than never. 

 

For Mech... This nerf is fine, but I predict that it will highlight an issue that wasn't very obvious before for a lot of players. The AI sucks. The terrible AI is masked by the fact that the player really doesn't need to manage their mech very much unless they play HAM. Now, players will start to feel the frustration when the bot doesn't quite do what you want it to. 

One simple change to make this change work, while still forcing players to think about how their mech is positioned is to do the following:

• If you tap "Return to me" the button acts as it does now
• If you hold "Return to me" You can target a location, and the mech will stand there and "Patrol" that area. 

When patrolling, it will exibit typical NPC behavior that you'd see in other MMOs. It will stand there until and enemy comes close, then it will attack it. Once the enemy is dead it will return to that spot. When in passive, it will just stand there ignoring enemies until you tell it to attack. 

This keeps the nerf which forces players to be cognizant of their mech's positioning, but takes away the frustration of dealing with the poor GW2 AI. Sometimes the mech doesn't stack where you want it to, and it forces you to burn shift signet to compensate for the AI's refusal to do what you tell it to. I don't think that's good design. 

Shift signet should be for quick repositioning. It shouldn't be a band-aid for poor design. 

 

Yeah. Unfortunately, and I've been saying this for a while, anet doesn't know how to balance the game anymore.

One major change that could put Scrapper in the bruiser spot is change impact savant. Either replace it with old adaptive armor (gain barrier when struck) or rework how impact savant works. I'd prefer the replacement method, and impact savant can be where current adaptive armor is.

They've put Scrapper into a black hole by tying their defense to their offense instead of them working together. but, because Scrapper doesn't do damage like other especs/professions and the damage isn't too high compared to them as well, the barrier you get from savant is irrelevant. So they're stuck letting go of all their defense to roll offense to get at least some sort of use out of savant, but then defeats the purpose of being a bruiser because you have no sustain outside of 800 barrier from savant which is child's play compared to the massive damages being thrown around thanks to everyone and everything having high crit chance. Oh wells. Game was great while it lasted.

[Kendrel.9057]

So the patch dropped, but i cannot see that "Mechanical Genius" thing for my Mech. Is there an Icon or something which shows that the mech has the buff or not ?

 

nevermind, there is actually a circle i didnt see before for some reason haha 🙂

Edited November 29, 2022 by Kendrel.9057

[shion.2084]

3 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

If they didn't already have holosmith I'd be in favor of this.

They could take a different spin on it.   Like essentially how Necro's have the reaper form or whatever... essentially the mech would have its own health bar and you got ejected out of it when it blew up...  So they could do things that had a mech like flavour.   Additionally the attacks could have a different spin on them... anyway I think it could be differentiated from Holo in the way that say a necro shroud isn't the same as holoforge from.

[Okhu.7948]

3 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

They could take a different spin on it.   Like essentially how Necro's have the reaper form or whatever... essentially the mech would have its own health bar and you got ejected out of it when it blew up...  So they could do things that had a mech like flavour.   Additionally the attacks could have a different spin on them... anyway I think it could be differentiated from Holo in the way that say a necro shroud isn't the same as holoforge from.

Thats what Holo is.... the engineers take on necro shroud.

[shion.2084]

Just now, Okhu.7948 said:

Thats what Holo is.... the engineers take on necro shroud.

It is one take... a power suit could be another.   Maybe it enhances range... provides a force field... you have to whack it with a wrench to fix it once it blows up... whatever.  Anything but a pet.

[PolarBear.3961]

Welp they killed mechanist for me... guess im benching him until they revert the stupid changes or atleast improve them ! But hey thats what anet wanted... to reduce the mechanist player base... im just sad that they had to KILL the spec instead of tweaking numbers. Oh and the rifle is dead now too weee /s 😑🙄😞

Edited November 29, 2022 by PolarBear.3961

[Kodama.6453]

25 minutes ago, PolarBear.3961 said:

Welp they killed mechanist for me... guess im benching him until they revert the stupid changes or atleast improve them ! But hey thats what anet wanted... to reduce the mechanist player base... im just sad that they had to KILL the spec instead of tweaking numbers. Oh and the rifle is dead now too weee /s 😑🙄😞

Yeah, it really feels like they just made mech annoying and clunky to use to get people away from it, so the spec is not overrepresented as hard anymore.

[Love.1975]

Rifle change deletes Core, Scrapper, Holo, and Mechanist build diversity in all modes. It is probably the worst in PvP/WvW.

 

Sadly...I highly doubt they will reverse the Mechanical Genius change... and I especially doubt they will reverse the rifle change.

At the very least, it could have been split PvE/PvP...

 

Welcome back Holosmith though!

Edited November 29, 2022 by Love.1975

[Luthan.5236]

Thing is they probably only had the PvP/WvW environment in mind. In PvE you can easily position yourself close to the mech. Predicting enemy movement. PvP ... everyone porting and moving quickly ... to hard to stay in range.

The rifle also seems to have gotten small coefficient changes in PvE only. Main reason to nerf was the PvP I guess and they might have wanted us to use the mace. Pretty boring when you need to play the weapon that comes with the elite spec. With rifle I actually started to use another weapon for the first time. Not the mandatory elite spec weapon.

Should maybe add weapon swap in combat so we can use rifle + another set?

Edited November 29, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[GummiBear.4397]

On 11/19/2022 at 12:18 AM, Makuragee.3058 said:

Druid can! Rifle is just removing something cool for something less cool. Dont care about the number for. Only care about the fun factor. And the mech change does not seem fun at all, not how clunky the mech is, we already need to be sure hes close enought to the party. 😞

Yeah, I rather had them just nerf the dps a little more and kept the previous animation. It's a bit clunky.