So Alac Mirage is kinda dead now?

[Baaltor.5462]

Help me out here. 

Alacrity generation got split from main character to clones. With the boon-duration being reduced to compensate. Boon duration got even buffed from 2,5 sec baselines to (with 3 clones) 4 sec baseline. Which sounds really nice at first. But then you realize it's tied to clones. The mechanic of Mesmers that don't work well in fights involving trash mobs. The way I see it we will be able to provide permanent Alacrity in single boss encounters quite easily, but for fights with trash mobs (looking at cold war for example), where all your clones die when the enemy dies and your team will kill the enemies incredibly fast even with pugs, you won't have enough clones up to generate Alacrity.

 

Am I missing sth. or are these changes pushing Mirage out of Boon-support role?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

That's pretty much it.  You're supposed to use Chronomancer for alacrity now against all non-raid bosses.  

[Mike.7983]

Another senseless nerf for no reason, asking all mesmer mains to band together and tell anet no, enough is enough.  Hoping to revert the nerf like last time they tried to nerf it.  Massive backlash got it dropped before and if enough get loud it will happen again.

[Infusion.7149]

Most people are using staff mirage only on boss fights anyway (whether it is openworld bounty type of boss or instanced content). In your example of Cold war, unless you camp shortbow on renegade you will need to be in the ~200 radius chill field of Varinia anyhow (which negates alacrity) and the same goes for mechanist with a mace. Mirage isn't required to stand in the chill which is armor ignoring 10% health per tick although it will be affected by the projectile reflect. If you have the other set of abilities on the boss which just does damage, then it is more favorable to mechanist barriers in PBAOE as well as specter.

It was never a strong pick for trash mobs, which is why in openworld you sometimes see the power greatsword ambush mirages for "maximum tagging". It is also not a good pick for most fractal bosses since a CC-ed boss does no confusion skill damage ticks.

I would not say chronomancer for alacrity is a strong proposition for trash mobs either since you need to place wells for the alacrity. Well damage is notoriously unreliable due to the pulse damage being backloaded and last I checked you need 3 wells to maintain the boon. Arenanet probably could have had Stretched time function identically to StM but provide alacrity so that there is a coherent playstyle.

I would think the best way Arenanet can help this build in PVE is tacking on some condition damage onto warlock on par with autoattack and reducing the cooldown in PVE so that clone generation is less of an issue.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Baaltor.5462]

25 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Most people are using staff mirage only on boss fights anyway (whether it is openworld bounty type of boss or instanced content). In your example of Cold war, unless you camp shortbow on renegade you will need to be in the ~200 radius chill field of Varinia anyhow (which negates alacrity) and the same goes for mechanist with a mace. Mirage isn't required to stand in the chill which is armor ignoring 10% health per tick although it will be affected by the projectile reflect. If you have the other set of abilities on the boss which just does damage, then it is more favorable to mechanist barriers in PBAOE as well as specter.

It was never a strong pick for trash mobs, which is why in openworld you sometimes see the power greatsword ambush mirages for "maximum tagging". It is also not a good pick for most fractal bosses since a CC-ed boss does no confusion skill damage ticks.

I would not say chronomancer for alacrity is a strong proposition for trash mobs either since you need to place wells for the alacrity. Well damage is notoriously unreliable due to the pulse damage being backloaded and last I checked you need 3 wells to maintain the boon. Arenanet probably could have had Stretched time function identically to StM but provide alacrity so that there is a coherent playstyle.

I would think the best way Arenanet can help this build in PVE is tacking on some condition damage onto warlock on par with autoattack and reducing the cooldown in PVE so that clone generation is less of an issue.

But Mirage went from being supbar (not doing a lot of dmg but still being able to provide full alac coverage) in trash mob situations to literally not being able to fullfill the role anymore

 

If they reworked the clones so that they are not tied to the lives of our enemies, but keep attacking your target, the rework/change would probably be rly good

Edited November 12, 2022 by Baaltor.5462

[Batalix.2873]

At least now players will stop expecting my Axe Mirage to provide alacrity.

 

If they made Chrono shatters also provide alacrity to allies and move wells to be less "spam-on-cooldown", I would actually play Chrono.

 

[Stavros.8249]

As a staff mirage, i like this change. I always got 3 clones out. That means i will change my foods to condi damage

[Supernatural.7164]

What if they removed the alacrity from staff ambush and added its effects of either Dune Cloak or Elusive Mind. The alacrity would still be on ambush but now you could provide alacrity with any weapon. 

 

This might make you do too much damage now that you can take any weapon to be an alacrity support but since you wont be able to run Infinite Horizon at the same time, the change should keep you balanced.

[Guybrush.4762]

Yeah, it is pretty much a buff to Staff mirage against tough mob and a nerf against trash ; if my morning math is correct you need 1.5 clones in average to maintain the same amount of alacrity as before. Thematically, I like the idea that clones only exist in the mind of their target but clones constantly poping out of existence against trash mob is indeed a bit frustrating.

One way to "fix" this pain point would be to make clones linger for a bit after their target disappear. It would still be bad because they would cast their ambush skill aimlessly, but that way you would know you have time to cast at least single ambush. A different ui visualization for clones that will soon fade away could convey this idea to the player (maybe a deep purple decreasing pie chart instead of a light purple full dot).

I don't know... it is a rough idea. 😊

Edited November 17, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Axl.8924]

Can someone pls answer me. will power mirage be viable or no? considering you still can gen might get some alac

[Moradorin.6217]

If Anet cannot even mention removal of trade-offs for Mirage (2nd dodge, etc) and meanwhile give soulbeast back both pets and merge, give Chrono dist, etc, etc I dont even see a point in reasoning or attempting to make other Class changes.

 

Anet has flat out conned the entire community, once again, with a bunch of double talk, distraction, and lies.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

If Anet cannot even mention removal of trade-offs for Mirage (2nd dodge, etc) and meanwhile give soulbeast back both pets and merge, give Chrono dist, etc, etc I dont even see a point in reasoning or attempting to make other Class changes.

 

Anet has flat out conned the entire community, once again, with a bunch of double talk, distraction, and lies.

To be fair they did state in the October patch meant for PVP/WVW they were looking into it. The issue is the November 29, 2022 patch is solely with PVE in mind first and foremost.
I suppose the rationale at Arenanet is that mirage is already being used in PVP (side mirage, interrupt mirage) and is largely irrelevant in WVW over chrono outside of roaming even with 2 dodges. To say that the balance team conned the community is a bit extreme is it not?
Like it or not MightyTeapot has much more influence than before since he has had a working relationship with Roy in the past plus has had CMC on stream. Since the hardstuck site still lists mirage builds for PVP it could be a major reason it still hasn't been revamped yet despite it not being "meta".
https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/mesmer/side-mirage/
https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/mesmer/interrupt-mirage/

[Moradorin.6217]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

To be fair they did state in the October patch meant for PVP/WVW they were looking into it. The issue is the November 29, 2022 patch is solely with PVE in mind first and foremost.
I suppose the rationale at Arenanet is that mirage is already being used in PVP (side mirage, interrupt mirage) and is largely irrelevant in WVW over chrono outside of roaming even with 2 dodges. To say that the balance team conned the community is a bit extreme is it not?
Like it or not MightyTeapot has much more influence than before since he has had a working relationship with Roy in the past plus has had CMC on stream. Since the hardstuck site still lists mirage builds for PVP it could be a major reason it still hasn't been revamped yet despite it not being "meta".
https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/mesmer/side-mirage/
https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/mesmer/interrupt-mirage/

doesnt matter. I just see it as I stated. They managed to quickly undo the trade-offs of every other spec they added them to and 100% ignored/left Mirage with its trade-off intact without a word. That says it all. They have zero credibility.

[Forbiben.3842]

5 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

doesnt matter. I just see it as I stated. They managed to quickly undo the trade-offs of every other spec they added them to and 100% ignored/left Mirage with its trade-off intact without a word. That says it all. They have zero credibility.

They ignored mirage while openly stating they were looking at a way to address it? Thats not ignoring lol

 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/13/2022 at 5:29 AM, Batalix.2873 said:

At least now players will stop expecting my Axe Mirage to provide alacrity.

 

If they made Chrono shatters also provide alacrity to allies and move wells to be less "spam-on-cooldown", I would actually play Chrono.

 

It might be possible to do the inverse of the old approach - get three staff clones and then switch to axe yourself for more DPS, avoiding generating any axe clones. Not sure if that's actually worth doing over simply running double staff, but it'll be interesting to see.

 

On 11/17/2022 at 12:13 PM, Supernatural.7164 said:

What if they removed the alacrity from staff ambush and added its effects of either Dune Cloak or Elusive Mind. The alacrity would still be on ambush but now you could provide alacrity with any weapon. 

 

This might make you do too much damage now that you can take any weapon to be an alacrity support but since you wont be able to run Infinite Horizon at the same time, the change should keep you balanced.

I've been advocating for this since alacmirage was introduced in the first place.

[Moradorin.6217]

6 hours ago, Forbiben.3842 said:

They ignored mirage while openly stating they were looking at a way to address it? Thats not ignoring lol

 

Yes if you mean, ignored/left Mirage with its trade-offs intact without a word after announcing the removal of trade-offs and quickly rolling back all other classes and leaving Mirage as is.

 

Meaning they have not made mention that they are still in the process of removing trade-offs but rather are acting as if that is now a done task and they are moving on to pve.

That I call ignored/left, cause that is factually accurate.

[Levetty.1279]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:13 AM, Supernatural.7164 said:

This might make you do too much damage now that you can take any weapon to be an alacrity support but since you wont be able to run Infinite Horizon at the same time, the change should keep you balanced.

You would actually do far too little damage because you no longer had Infinite Horizon.

[Ashford.8540]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:44 AM, Axl.8924 said:

Can someone pls answer me. will power mirage be viable or no? considering you still can gen might get some alac

 

Mesmer in general is not a viable class. GW2 is about boon stacking, not parlor tricks, and mesmer is all parlor tricks, you know, unless they ever decide to rework chronomancer since it never got updated after they removed the tanking gimmick back in heart of thorns.

[Baaltor.5462]

As negative as my post might seem. I still think that Staff/staff Alac Mirage is really good---- situationally. After the update they doubled down on this spec's weaknessess and strenghts.

So in single phase boss fights(especially bosses who don't move much and attack often) alac "support" mirage will probably be able to give pure dps specs a run for their money. On encounters with a lot of weak/trash enemies, alac mirage will not be able to fullfill its role, which is my main complaint about those changes. If anet changed clones to stick around after the original target has died, this patch would be an insane buff to alac mirage.

With the current known changes , it just feels really weird....

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, Baaltor.5462 said:

As negative as my post might seem. I still think that Staff/staff Alac Mirage is really good---- situationally. After the update they doubled down on this spec's weaknessess and strenghts.

So in single phase boss fights(especially bosses who don't move much and attack often) alac "support" mirage will probably be able to give pure dps specs a run for their money. On encounters with a lot of weak/trash enemies, alac mirage will not be able to fullfill its role, which is my main complaint about those changes. If anet changed clones to stick around after the original target has died, this patch would be an insane buff to alac mirage.

With the current known changes , it just feels really weird....

Hrrmn. You only need an average of 1.5 clones to match what staff mirage currently generates. It's also pretty good at generating more clones quickly, so you'd need to be having to switch targets a lot to have that problem. Taking Deceptive Evasion would probably mostly fix it at a small DPS loss -worst case scenario then would be having at least one clone with each dodge.

It definitely does have the effect of making Infinite Horizon even more indispensable, though.

[Mike.7983]

Running twin staff mirage with energy swaps and abusing the 40% vigor food your easily going to be pulling a 100% alac uptime after changes with 3 clones out in group content, won't need any boon durations. Looking forward to the nice buff vs longer fights.  Sucks vs trash mobs but then mirage has always sucked for fodder.  Pro spec for champ and higher though.

[sigmundf.7523]

I just simply don't understand why there is any need to have 100% alac uptime for fighting trashmobs that easily die. 

[Bear.9568]

I will say it was a buff and helps average mirage players maintain alac a lot easier in boss fights. Trash mobs are still a problem as you have no time to stack alac so there's the tradeoff. 

 

 

[Mike.7983]

100% alac with 25 might uptime now on bosses though, felt good.

[Moradorin.6217]

22 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

100% alac with 25 might uptime now on bosses though, felt good.

How about in wvw with one dodge? lol

Edited December 2, 2022 by Moradorin.6217