Entitlement in Fractals

[SwiftFishy.2643]

Hi, so this is newish to me because I've just recently experienced it multiple times this week. It deals with the CM Fractals and fractals in general.

 

1. To start, earlier this week I was kicked because I did not have "DPS" food for my DPS role. I completely understand, have the food for the role, but is it really that big of a deal on a FRACTAL? Like maybe Raids, maybe, but fractals are some of the easiest instances currently in game imo.
2. I was just kicked from a CM 100 group because I didn't have the "Fractal Savant" buff. Just to be clear, I play T4 dailies and recs every single day for almost a year straight now, and when I have the time I do the CM's. I do not save much of what I get from fractals because I'm impatient and I want gold. Therefore, I do not have Fractal Savant or any of the Agony Impedance augments. It does not mean however that I do not know the mechanics of the CM's or wouldn't carry my weight.

 

What's happening with the fractal community? It's a game and this specific instance is easy and fun. Stop taking it so seriously. It's far more important for someone to know how to do the fractal than it is that their doing top dps. If that person dies quickly because they don't know what's going on, then that big dps isnt going to help you anyway.

 

 

[The Boz.2038]

In all my raidings I have never, ever encountered the amount of toxicity that I often find in fractals, CM or no.

[Hotride.2187]

For the food you maybe joined a pots and food group (p+f)? If not you just joined some special persons, ignore and find a normal group.

Most groups I play with (I do t4+recs every day) don't even require pots anymore. Wasn't like that an year ago, most groups were p+f instead. Cant say I encounter much elitism. Sometimes there are players who are fairly clueless, but its rarely more than 1 in the group so things go smooth either way. I've had 2 groups in the last 2 years of doing dailies, where I quit cause it was hopeless and no one was willing to learn. I've had more groups where things went more slowly than needed, but nobody made a big deal out of it (at most players leave after t4 and do recs in some other group).

For CMs I dunno, I don't do them. I was told on this forum no one has 15k UFE yet I see groups that go "20k UFE". Maybe its some insiders joke, no idea. I honestly don't care, I filter CM groups cause they are all you see in LFG. Seeing how long it takes one to get players, you can imagine the amount of players interested in doing them.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[AliamRationem.5172]

A person who has been doing CMs for a few weeks should have enough relics to get fractal savant.  Fractal savant doesn't guarantee a person knows what they're doing (they could have gotten it without doing CMs at all!), but not having it is probably a pretty reliable indicator that the person is fairly new to it.  It's a weird requirement and I've personally never seen it before, though.

Maybe CM fractals are some of the easiest content in the game for you, but your random pickup group doesn't know that.  They're probably used to groups that don't deal enough DPS to skip the second half of water phase and wipe 2 or 3 times on it before they even get to Dark Ai.  They could just be trying to avoid that scenario by putting what should be some very basic requirements on their group.

Maybe instead of being arrogant and acting like groups are lucky to have you, you should do the bare minimum to show that you're there to help them have smooth run?  I've never seen the fractal savant requirement, but food/utility is just a given.  Why wouldn't you use them?

 

[Janitsu.6284]

Take this into consideration:

"You are not entitled to other people's time and therefore they can choose to not have you in their party if you are not performing up to their standards."

- Book of Revenantions 23:69

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 hours ago, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

1. To start, earlier this week I was kicked because I did not have "DPS" food for my DPS role. I completely understand, have the food for the role, but is it really that big of a deal on a FRACTAL? Like maybe Raids, maybe, but fractals are some of the easiest instances currently in game imo.

You may have joined a group asking for potions and food. Otherwise people wouldn't really care about food. 

6 hours ago, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

I was just kicked from a CM 100 group because I didn't have the "Fractal Savant" buff. Just to be clear, I play T4 dailies and recs every single day for almost a year straight now, and when I have the time I do the CM's. I do not save much of what I get from fractals because I'm impatient and I want gold. Therefore, I do not have Fractal Savant or any of the Agony Impedance augments. It does not mean however that I do not know the mechanics of the CM's or wouldn't carry my weight.

Getting kicked from 100CM for not having Fractal Savant lmao
You might have dodged a bullet with that kick.

[Onox.4287]

2 minutes ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Take this into consideration:

"You are not entitled to other people's time and therefore they can choose to not have you in their party if you are not performing up to their standards."

- Book of Revenantions 23:69

If people don't accept me in their groups they're elitist and toxic 😭

[SwiftFishy.2643]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:32 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Maybe instead of being arrogant and acting like groups are lucky to have you, you should do the bare minimum to show that you're there to help them have smooth run?

 

I'm sorry, how was I being arrogant and acting like a group was lucky to have me? In the scenarios I was talking about, they kicked me as soon as ending their sentence. So how did u expect me to tell them "wait let me grab food" or "oh yeah I don't have that but I know how it works"? And based on other comments, I can assume that you are part of the community I'm talking about.

[AliamRationem.5172]

20 hours ago, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

I'm sorry, how was I being arrogant and acting like a group was lucky to have me? In the scenarios I was talking about, they kicked me as soon as ending their sentence. So how did u expect me to tell them "wait let me grab food" or "oh yeah I don't have that but I know how it works"? And based on other comments, I can assume that you are part of the community I'm talking about.

You didn't provide that level of detail. You just said you got kicked for not having food buffs.  Then you went on to suggest that the group should be fine as long as you know the mechanics, as if they would know that without taking a chance on you.  That was rather the point of their requirements in the first place. To avoid wasting time.

[Cyninja.2954]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

Hi, so this is newish to me because I've just recently experienced it multiple times this week. It deals with the CM Fractals and fractals in general.

 

1. To start, earlier this week I was kicked because I did not have "DPS" food for my DPS role. I completely understand, have the food for the role, but is it really that big of a deal on a FRACTAL? Like maybe Raids, maybe, but fractals are some of the easiest instances currently in game imo.

Not your call to make. Food and utility buff add up to around 2-3k dps for builds (or % wise, around 10-15% in output increase). Fractal potions add to that on top.

The issue here was maybe the group did not specifically mentioned they expected this. In the past this would be noted with P+F.

For fractal CMs it is pretty much expected from hat I can recall because an entire group without food and one with will see a dramatic difference in output.

Finally, not having the basic necessities and being "unprepared" does leave a bad taste with other players who might not know you. Remember, people are making assumptions around some very few details and a bad first impression can really mess things up.

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

1. I was just kicked from a CM 100 group because I didn't have the "Fractal Savant" buff. Just to be clear, I play T4 dailies and recs every single day for almost a year straight now, and when I have the time I do the CM's. I do not save much of what I get from fractals because I'm impatient and I want gold. Therefore, I do not have Fractal Savant or any of the Agony Impedance augments. It does not mean however that I do not know the mechanics of the CM's or wouldn't carry my weight.

Again, this is a group decision based around limited information available. No one in that group knows how often you have run the CM.

I will agree though that if you did provide adequate KP, a kick seems unjustified, unless specifically demanding a certain rank of fractal god title.

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

 

What's happening with the fractal community? It's a game and this specific instance is easy and fun. Stop taking it so seriously. It's far more important for someone to know how to do the fractal than it is that their doing top dps. If that person dies quickly because they don't know what's going on, then that big dps isnt going to help you anyway.

True, and how does one know how good a random player you have never encountered before is?

Players make decisions based around imperfect information all the time. That's why some of these abbreviations and KP developed in the first place: to try to add some layer of information around which to base decisions around and thus not waste time and energy.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Infusion.7149]

Make your own group and pay attention to what people ask for. Their group their rules.

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:54 AM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Getting kicked from 100CM for not having Fractal Savant lmao
You might have dodged a bullet with that kick.

That's all I really need to hear.

Being kicked from some groups is not a bad thing.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Lack of food shows you're inexperienced with min/maxing, since you're trying to save some silvers to avoid it. The level 60-ish food is good enough and costs a few gold for a whole stack that lasts months.

 

It helps you swap out a piece of armor for something a bit more desirable.

 

If you think Fractals are "some of the easiest content in the game", you've been carried. CM Fractals are about the same difficulty as normal mode raid bosses and T4s are just a bit below that. The only players who think its faceroll easy are those that are getting carried by the group's other DPSes and especially the healer.

 

Fractals are in fact the hardest content in the game for 5man group comps.

 

Fractal Savant is a low requirement for Fractal CMs. I've seen Fractal God/Goddess as a requirement quite often. The alternative is for them to require DwD, which locks out players who didn't get a death-free run.

 

I guess its a case of pick your poison, but I can guarantee you where the entitlement is..

Edited December 12, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[maxwelgm.4315]

A lot of groups who join before reset doing pre-clears of the most annoying scales or who just start forming early for 100CM will be fractal champ/god only (so like 2 tiers above savant even). T4+CMs however in general will only want DwD title and you can easily join one with no requirements for T4+recs if you look for it 10 mins before reset.

 

The amount of damage increase you get from having a group decked out in fractal buffs is insane to the point you will get sub 10s phases in most bosses and make for easy, uncomplicated sub-hour long runs. This is what people want to shoot for if they want to do T4+CMs+recs every single day including yourself - otherwise fractals will soon become your sole in-game activity if you have a normal amount of playtime of less than 3 hours/day. Having food is also a non-issue, it costs few gold to have plenty of every type of food in your inventory (condi, power and healing food+wrench) and you will get a lot of return on investment for how faster you can run with the extra firepower (the amount is also non-negligible as it adds on top of your fractal buffs/pots).

 

A single player not bringing in the proper setup (being condi for 100CM, power for everything else, food, pots, fractal savant+) is more than enough to turn a 45min full run into a 1:30 hour ordeal when, just to mention one example, Ai starts pulling CC mechanics back to back due to lack of damage from the group to kill her before she can spawn additional AoEs right after the second sorrow, or if the group fails to take her to 66% after the first CC phase and she goes through the red circle AoE without a second defiance bar. Same goes for failing Arkk 25%->0% because the group couldn't shoot him down in the seconds after he is CC'd past the final pylons mechanic. And similarly without enough damage Ensolyss will kill an entire group easily with poison drops and inner circles mechanics right after his 33% CC.

 

Can every aforementioned mechanic and more for normal fractals be dealt with easily by good players? Yes absolutely, but the pugs you're joining are not building for that - they are building for high damage, skipping phases, and not spending too long on any particular fight. You can make a group that explicitly says "chill run" or any such thing and still complete T4+CMs daily and I am sure there are players competent with mechanics to do the same. Whether we agree with it or not it's no use arguing about the average expectation that was built into running content, just like it was no use 10 years ago complaining you couldn't use a bearbow ranger on Arah explorable paths.

[Bakeneko.5826]

15 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Not your call to make. Food and utility buff add up to around 2-3k dps for builds (or % wise, around 10-15% in output increase). Fractal potions add to that on top.

The issue here was maybe the group did not specifically mentioned they expected this. In the past this would be noted with P+F.

I have a bit of problem with this part of story. Been running CMs for looooooong time, never have I been kicked from party for using no food or wrong food, usually someone points out, that I forgot food or used wrong one. There is even more to this story poster is not telling

[Cyninja.2954]

13 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I have a bit of problem with this part of story. Been running CMs for looooooong time, never have I been kicked from party for using no food or wrong food, usually someone points out, that I forgot food or used wrong one. There is even more to this story poster is not telling

 

Well in the past there used to be the notation P+F (fractal Potions and Food buffs) which likely died out since by now a lot of players have either access to the permanent potions, or are aware they should be using fractal potions (and power creep has made them less necessary for regular T4 fractals).

 

It all depends on how "advanced" the group is. Regular T4s? Probably no issue. High-end speedrun CMs+T4, probably also no issue (and likely on the rare side of actually happening). Neither of those 2 groups will have large issues with fractals because they are engaging with content not challenging to them respectively. It's the in-between groups which will care, especially once things don't go as planned. No one cares about things UNTIL stuff goes wrong.

 

I'm also pretty sure once you have a high rank fractal god title (or even only the 1st rank) or a high amount o KP, others will assume you simply forgot the food. Have you ever tried intentionally NOT using food buffs after asked about missing them? 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Sarius.9285]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

To start, earlier this week I was kicked because I did not have "DPS" food for my DPS role. I completely understand, have the food for the role, but is it really that big of a deal on a FRACTAL? Like maybe Raids, maybe, but fractals are some of the easiest instances currently in game imo.

fractal cms are just as hard as raids or strikes, but yea kicking someone for not having food, even if they might pull good numbers is dumb.

Also food is not needed for anything in game....sure some builds rely on it to crit cap, but realistically it doesn't change the output by more than 2-3k which is not a big deal lol

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sarius.9285

[Spucke.4163]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

 

 

I was kicked because I did not have "DPS" food for my DPS role.

 

 

 

 

Requirements for Fractals CMs+T4 groups are different to casual T4+recs groups. Do you use killproof.me to make sure others know how experienced you are? Otherwise don't join groups with UFE(or UCE) requirements. Do you use Arcdps to compare your performance? If you lack in dps or boonduration, adjust your gear/build, improve your rotations, timings. When everything is fine, they won't find a reason to kick you.

On 12/9/2022 at 11:06 AM, SwiftFishy.2643 said:

but fractals are some of the easiest instances currently in game imo

 

That "easy" depending on instabilities but in general it's not the easiest instance.

Edited December 14, 2022 by kaese.8765