Passive Aggressive Emoji's plaguing the forums

[Astralporing.1957]

38 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

For a company that says it wants to be friendly and have players be good to each other, the way people use emojis to troll and dislike is a strange thing for anet to put in.

Indeed, seeing as they removed downvotes in the previous version of the forums to avoid exactly this kind of behaviour, and didn't enable them in this one. And yet they have allowed them to creep in through the back door and keep pretending they don't see it happening, or that it was completely intended.

Oh well, consistent inconsistency strikes again, i guess.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Substitute for downvotes... Nothing complicated about it.

[Gibson.4036]

I don't normally used "confused", but when I do, I do on threads like these.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Indeed, seeing as they removed downvotes in the previous version of the forums to avoid exactly this kind of behaviour, and didn't enable them in this one. And yet they have allowed them to creep in through the back door and keep pretending they don't see it happening, or that it was completely intended.

Oh well, consistent inconsistency strikes again, i guess.

You see, downvotes in the last forum were removed after an arenanet's dev post got bombed.  So all we gotta do to get our reactions removed is to overwhelmingly react with confusion to a negatively received dev post. 🤔

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On 4/8/2023 at 11:24 PM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Well, yes, I would say that trolling is a psychological issue -- like any asocial or anti-social behavior.

I know it as "being-an-annoying-little-brother," but I doubt that trolling is anti-social or even asocial.  For one, it is done in groups.  Second, groups enjoy it.  A well-done troll creates an impromptu straight-man/funny-man comedy skit for all the people viewing it.  Third, the social purpose of trolls is to learn to distinguish between legitimacy and illegitimacy, to hardens one character against all but the most fervent assaults, and to not take seriously all things presented before you.  Fourth, I cannot say that it is a vice to be obstinate and difficult to deal with in all situations.  

Off the top of my head, as a good example of trolling I immediately think of James Veitch, who made a Ted-Talk about doing such a thing.  It's a 9-minute video, and it is a great example of what I mean.  

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I know it as "being-an-annoying-little-brother," but I doubt that trolling is anti-social or even asocial.  For one, it is done in groups. 

It's done in groups, but the primary purpose is to upset/disrupt that group. Thus anti-social.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Second, groups enjoy it. 

Only those not directly affected by it, and only some of those. Trolling can be acceptable to people if they themselves like behaving like that, if it's not aimed against them or people whose opinion they share, or if it's used in threads they do not consider "worthy" of serious discussion. Now, start trolling someone in a thread they consider serious, about an issue they care about, and that very same person will suddenly end up with completely opposite opinion on that kind of behaviour.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

A well-done troll creates an impromptu straight-man/funny-man comedy skit for all the people viewing it. 

No. A "well-done" trolling leaves people frothing at their mouths (and possibly banned/warned due to their response, with the thread locked) with the perpetrator getting scot-free. What you are talking about is not it, but more like attempts at humour that do not aim at disrupting serious conversations and/or being a personal attack aimed at ridiculing/provoking someone, which is what most trolling is about.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Third, the social purpose of trolls is to learn to distinguish between legitimacy and illegitimacy, to hardens one character against all but the most fervent assaults, and to not take seriously all things presented before you. 

Nah, that's simply a poor attempt at trying to paint bad behaviour in a slightly positive light. You could as well say that the purpose of someone that beat you up in a dark alley was to teach you the value of suffering and "harden you against alll but the most fervent assaults".

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Fourth, I cannot say that it is a vice to be obstinate and difficult to deal with in all situations.  

Perhaps there might be situations where such behaviour might be justified, but they are so rare they do not really factor here.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Off the top of my head, as a good example of trolling I immediately think of James Veitch, who made a Ted-Talk about doing such a thing.  It's a 9-minute video, and it is a great example of what I mean.  

Nice example. Doubly, because that this kind of behaviour is not appropriate on forums, as it should be left to moderation and not get turned into a troll thread.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's done in groups, but the primary purpose is to upset/disrupt that group. Thus anti-social.

Nope.  I mean that people will troll as a group.  It is a collaborative effort, done in group, and the primary purpose isn't to upset a different group, insomuch as it is to make light of the setting and situation in a satirical matter.  Doing this will upset certain kinds of individuals if they're present, but that in itself is part of the satire of internet culture.  If I go into map chat and say "Star Vs. the Forces of Evil is my favorite anime," and someone freaks out over it, then I'm not the one being anti-social.  A thousand people will see that and continue on with little more than a chuckle, for the joke is the full confidence but complete absence of knowledge on animation mediums.  

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Only those not directly affected by it, and only some of those. Trolling can be acceptable to people if they themselves like behaving like that, if it's not aimed against them or people whose opinion they share, or if it's used in threads they do not consider "worthy" of serious discussion. Now, start trolling someone in a thread they consider serious, about an issue they care about, and that very same person will suddenly end up with completely opposite opinion on that kind of behaviour.

No. A "well-done" trolling leaves people frothing at their mouths (and possibly banned/warned due to their response, with the thread locked) with the perpetrator getting scot-free. What you are talking about is not it, but more like attempts at humour that do not aim at disrupting serious conversations and/or being a personal attack aimed at ridiculing/provoking someone, which is what most trolling is about.

You cut those two sections up, but they go together.  I can't help but think of the old SNL sketch where Christopher Walken pretends to be a fan of a prank show, but context reveals he believes "pranks" involves assault with a crowbar.  I know the term "trolling" can be ambiguous at times, but I don't mean directed attacks at somebody.  That's just harassment.  Trolling is when someone acts in an obtuse or annoying manner, particularly in a way that will cause overly strict or sensitive people to overreact.  The other stuff is figuratively people throwing a brick through your window and defending it by saying "It's just a prank, man!"

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah, that's simply a poor attempt at trying to paint bad behaviour in a slightly positive light. You could as well say that the purpose of someone that beat you up in a dark alley was to teach you the value of suffering and "harden you against alll but the most fervent assaults".

Building character has been an important part of development since time immemorial.  However I digress:  there is no set of rules or structure of a system that will always stop trolling, simply because there is no limit to the degree of sensitivity and unawareness of the human spirit.  Pride can be infinitely dense.  Literally anything can constitute trolling to someone who's petty enough.  This isn't like the chicken or the egg problem.  The reason why it is that trolls exist is because troll bait exists.  The internet was full of controlling and petty people firs.  It is not good to be easily taunted, tricked, provoked, or to lash out in disproportionate rage.  It doesn't get said as much, but troll bait can be more infuriating than the trolls themselves.  They get called "bait" because their disposition leads people to want to provoke them.  Trust me, I've been to places on the internet where people take spelling errors personally.  Those people could ruin an internet community just as fast as somebody who's annoying for the sake of being a nuisance. 

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Perhaps there might be situations where such behaviour might be justified, but they are so rare they do not really factor here.

Nice example. Doubly, because that this kind of behaviour is not appropriate on forums, as it should be left to moderation and not get turned into a troll thread.

Any medium through which communication occurs is going to have interpersonal conflicts.  Moderators have limited free time, limited perspective, and limited scope.  They aren't going to solve everything.  One of the lessons that age has taught me is that not every lesson can be taught.  Some things need to be shown, seen, or experienced.  To simply tell somebody that they're overly petty and that their conduct isn't acceptable... that doesn't work most of the time.  The temper needs to be tempered by experience.  For somebody who's easily angered, this will inevitably incite anger.  From their perspective, this would be considered trolling.  They'll huff and they'll puff, and hopefully after they've gotten sick of the madness they'll learn one of life's most important lessons:  Don't feed the troll.  

[Cuks.8241]

Trolling is a fundemental part of an internet ecosystem, society. Recognising, interacting with trolling is an integral part of comunication. 

Trolling is not anti social. Not being able to recognise, overreacting to trolling is antisocial. 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Trolling is a fundemental part of an internet ecosystem, society. Recognising, interacting with trolling is an integral part of comunication. 

Trolling is not anti social. Not being able to recognise, overreacting to trolling is antisocial. 

It's like saying that since crime is a fundamental part of the system of laws, it is not unlawful.

[Cuks.8241]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's like saying that since crime is a fundamental part of the system of laws, it is not unlawful.

Thats just silly comparisson. Trolling is not illegal by itself. You dont need to draw any comparissons, trolling is practised just fine outside of internet. 

And the same goes for face 2 face conversations or other media. If you are unable to recognise and react to trolling, people that enjoy or have other motives to spark conflict, excessive emotional reaction you're just as socialy inept as people that cant draw lines with trolling. 

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,

I'm locking this thread as it's run its course.

Regards.