buff defensive siege again

[mysticozzy.3589]

As we all know defensive siege is utter kitten right now, May as well run around with a wet noodle slapping people 
 

Cannons: 
Instantly pulled off the wall
Does little to kitten dmg to boon stack balls 

Bleed (skill 2) is utter pointless and does little dmg to consider as a skill
Is a supply drain for bots rebuilding things...

Fix: 
Give a permanent buff (through mastery) like the oil gives. permanent no cc buff with a 90% dmg reduction. (As all zergs tend to aim for the cannons first)
Give a flat dmg of 5k minimum to players through shields. 
dmg to siege is fine no need to change that.

CHANGE skill 2 to shoot a poison field instead of a bleed

Arrow carts:
May as well use a rangers barrage (IF you know how to ) its much more useful than spending supply on this so called siege.
A group of 5 can sit in AC fire and heal through the dmg thats being put out..
Poison field does not last long enough to be effective and can be instantly cleansed off rendering the skill useless. 
Skill 2 and 3 useless, bleed does near 0 dmg, doesnt scale with condi dmg on self. Cripple again pointless as its cleansed off

 

Fix: 
Buff AC dmg again to not be able to be healed through or allow it to scale with power and crit
Make condis applied by acs scaled by self condi stats
LET ACS HIT MAX 50 TARGETS AGAIN
Make the fields created by the AC a lingering field which cannot be cleansed off unless they are off the aoe.
Change skill 2 into a vulnerable inflicting skill "piercing arrows: inflicts 3 stacks of vulnerability to the target every pulse of arrows per 1 sec

 

Thoughts? MAKE SIEGE USEFUL AGAIN!

[Xenesis.6389]

Just to note, cannon 1 can remove a boon and hits 50 targets with mastery.

Also arrow carts can already hit 50 targets, ac 1 gets it from mastery.

 

Don't care about these changes, only thing I would be "excited" to see is all siege 1 be able to remove a boon like cannons with mastery. Otherwise this is all pointless talk as anet will not make any changes to siege unless their blob friends ask them to, and they won't, they were the ones that asked them to nerf it all in the first place.

[mysticozzy.3589]

12 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Just to note, cannon 1 can remove a boon and hits 50 targets with mastery.

Also arrow carts can already hit 50 targets, ac 1 gets it from mastery.

 

Don't care about these changes, only thing I would be "excited" to see is all siege 1 be able to remove a boon like cannons with mastery. Otherwise this is all pointless talk as anet will not make any changes to siege unless their blob friends ask them to, and they won't, they were the ones that asked them to nerf it all in the first place.

Just built a superior one and it hits 25 max

[Riba.3271]

Cannons are obviously very strong, as seen at SM. AC kills people without 2ndary support in party and strips all aegis from whole blob. Both do things "that aren't just damage".

 

So both are very strong for how easy they are to use. They should buff AC and Treb damage to siege tho (around 40% more damage to siege would be nice), and get rid of shield gens blocking siege fire (or nerf the duration and cooldown of the bubble massively)

[mysticozzy.3589]

1 minute ago, Riba.3271 said:

Cannons are obviously very strong, as seen at SM. AC kills people without 2ndary support in party and strips all aegis from whole blob. Both do things "that aren't just damage".

 

So both are very strong for how easy they are to use. They should buff AC and Treb damage to siege tho (around 40% more damage to siege would be nice), and get rid of shield gens blocking siege fire (or nerf the duration and cooldown of the bubble massively)

cannons u can be ripped off them instantly then the offensive zerg destroys it making it useless. 

[hugeboss.5432]

Nobody really cares that much about defensive siege these days, since almost nobody plays capture+hold / PPT anymore (the game mode has evolved slightly into more of a "capture + move on" type of thing, partly also due to the "pips minigame"). These days, you usually need player numbers to successfully defend an objective, and if u have those kind of numbers, then you don't usually need defensive siege.

If they ever want to revert back to the old style capture+hold gameplay, then they will probably rework the defensive siege to make it work properly again. But first, we will prolly have to see what direction alliances evolves the gamemode (when implemented).

 

[Xenesis.6389]

22 minutes ago, mysticozzy.3589 said:

Just built a superior one and it hits 25 max

Well either the wiki is wrong or you don't have ac mastery 4.

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The last time I was playing regularly players just started building Catapults all over the walls instead because they were far stronger than ACs with their target limit, CC spam and so on, not to mention the spammable shield. You also can't hide from them due to the massive splash damage area.

 

Anyway, this thread has been made many times. Basic siege needs to be cheaper (half supply cost), and Superior siege needs to be stronger against players with the damage versus walls left unchanged.

 

Damage needs to be higher to gates in general since rams are rarely used. Gates also need to be a viable attack target for players even in the absense of siege for low-supply battles, so the amount of damage players do them should be radically increased as well to at least 10x of now.

 

As it stands the game has turned entirely into destroy wall-fight lord-capture-move on, repeat.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[mysticozzy.3589]

44 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Well either the wiki is wrong or you don't have ac mastery 4.

 

wiki is wrong 🙂 and im full max mastery on everything. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

siege is trash and i hope it stays nerfed.

[Junkpile.7439]

Just nerf blob survivability and problem specs survivability. If everybody would have same survivability than berserker core ele siege damage would be ok. You could def while outnumbered too.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Junkpile.7439

[aspirine.6852]

Canons are useless anyway. First thing to get destroyed when a zerg gets there.Just like mortars.

Might aswell give every player on siege Stability to stop them from being pulled off the walls. Siege does very little damage to zerg so it would not matter much anyway.

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Don't care about these changes, only thing I would be "excited" to see is all siege 1 be able to remove a boon like cannons with mastery.

HOLY MOLY!

This guy just cracked the code on how to fix the boon mess....     DefensiveSiege ripping boons.... 

Boonblock is attacking your objective?  Build defensive siege!

might be a balancing mess aswell... idk... but on paper this sounds awesome.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Swamurabi.7890]

The greatest thing about siege wars is that only a very few players are actively doing something while the vast majority of players are sitting around waiting.

 

It's like playing duck duck goose. 

 

BORING.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

HOLY MOLY!

This guy just cracked the code on how to fix the boon mess....     DefensiveSiege ripping boons.... 

Boonblock is attacking your objective?  Build defensive siege!

might be a balancing mess aswell... idk... but on paper this sounds awesome.

How about a new world ability line?

Tier 1: Your siege attacks remove boons from struck targets. (1s CD per target struck)
Tier 2: You take 5% reduced damage while using siege.
Tier 3: Gain 1 stack of stability (1s) every 3s when using siege
Tier 4: You take 10% reduced damage while using siege (not a total of 15, just increments the damage reduction to 10%)

Tiers can be shuffled around.
 

[Gorani.7205]

Well, first ANet Devs currently involved in WvW would need to take a stand and actually commit to the topic of strengthening siege play again, because everything they have done the past years was reducing the incentive to siege play: supply game is gone, nerf HP of walls, nerf ACs, reduce the incentive to repair walls by taking away WxP for repairing and two days ago making NPC Lords (in DBL) even weaker). To my observation, zergs & flat-earther gamers (those that "want fights" but not inside any structure) seem to be the favoured player type to them. Has it made WvW better making all those changes? I guess not...

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How about a new world ability line?

Tier 1: Your siege attacks remove boons from struck targets. (1s CD per target struck)
Tier 2: You take 5% reduced damage while using siege.
Tier 3: Gain 1 stack of stability (1s) every 3s when using siege
Tier 4: You take 10% reduced damage while using siege (not a total of 15, just increments the damage reduction to 10%)

Tiers can be shuffled around.
 

In exchange can we have Warclaws be able to pull people off Siege if they target Siege and use Chain Pull Siege skill? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

44 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

In exchange can we have Warclaws be able to pull people off Siege if they target Siege and use Chain Pull Siege skill? 

I'm 100% in favor of such a change. I think you should be able to use chain pull to yonk people off of the walls too.

[Jobber.6348]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm 100% in favor of such a change. I think you should be able to use chain pull to yonk people off of the walls too.

Warclaws so underused ever since they nerfed it into the dirt. I mean I guess they function as an extra bar of health to prevent sneaking Thieves from ambushing people. 

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

In exchange can we have Warclaws be able to pull people off Siege if they target Siege and use Chain Pull Siege skill? 

Why just target siege, just have them pull players off walls, we could use some more qq around the forums.

Edit; looks like lan got the joke first 🤭

Edited December 15, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Warclaws so underused ever since they nerfed it into the dirt. I mean I guess they function as an extra bar of health to prevent sneaking Thieves from ambushing people. 

They are overnerfed for sure. I can see reducing the dodge distance as that was letting people get places they shouldn't, but removing the bleed from the engage, removing a dodge, and slowing it down were all just overcorrections. The removal of the down finisher is a bit more controversial; I can see why people disliked it, but at the same time I think it added more depth to the game mode. 

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They are overnerfed for sure. I can see reducing the dodge distance as that was letting people get places they shouldn't, but removing the bleed from the engage, removing a dodge, and slowing it down were all just overcorrections. The removal of the down finisher is a bit more controversial; I can see why people disliked it, but at the same time I think it added more depth to the game mode. 

Downed finisher should have stayed, even if it only affected one target, it helped get some kills off blobs before they could use res skills or f.

[Xenesis.6389]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

HOLY MOLY!

This guy just cracked the code on how to fix the boon mess....     DefensiveSiege ripping boons.... 

Boonblock is attacking your objective?  Build defensive siege!

might be a balancing mess aswell... idk... but on paper this sounds awesome.

Good luck with that, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to make siege add more boons instead. Like treb shot 5 aoe healing is pretty useless maybe it's field should spam 12 boons when you stand in it.

[Ronin.4501]

7 hours ago, aspirine.6852 said:

Canons are useless anyway. First thing to get destroyed when a zerg gets there.Just like mortars.

Might aswell give every player on siege Stability to stop them from being pulled off the walls. Siege does very little damage to zerg so it would not matter much anyway.

Except cannons do massive damage to the siege itself. 4-5 shots from a cannon will kill a catapult/ram...and they take down golems rather quickly as well. And although I'm sure you intended it as sarcasm, giving stability to players on cannons is actually a good idea, considering that Anet has them in fixed positions right up on the edge of the walls and pulls have become the dominant style of play. Smarter players will place defensive siege like arrow carts and ballistae further back to prevent this, but there is no such option with cannons. Of course, smarter players will also use disablers on cannons and oil in the first place.

 

17 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Damage needs to be higher to gates in general since rams are rarely used. Gates also need to be a viable attack target for players even in the absense of siege for low-supply battles, so the amount of damage players do them should be radically increased as well to at least 10x of now.

I see both organized groups and pugs using rams all the time. Can open a fortified gate with several rams much quicker than you can open a fortified wall with several catapults; the only difference is the rams despawn 15 minutes after the last use vs all other forms of siege despawn 1 hour after last use (plus guards tend to kill all the rams off if the objective doesn't end up being flipped).

Edited December 15, 2022 by Ronin.4501

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:27 AM, Riba.3271 said:

Cannons are obviously very strong, as seen at SM. AC kills people without 2ndary support in party and strips all aegis from whole blob. Both do things "that aren't just damage".

 

So both are very strong for how easy they are to use. They should buff AC and Treb damage to siege tho (around 40% more damage to siege would be nice), and get rid of shield gens blocking siege fire (or nerf the duration and cooldown of the bubble massively)

 

Stonemist is the best case scenario for defenders, upgraded to T3 with siege, a cloud defending it, with one banner and cannons on the top floor hard to reach, but it makes sense it's so hard to flip, fighting inside is so aggravating.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by CrimsonOneThree.5682