2023 Roadmap Posted, and I'm left with a question for the Devs

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Relevant link here. 

Relevant section for my question:

What It Means for You

Our future expansions for Guild Wars 2 will be the backbone of this new approach. Rather than launching an expansion every two to four years with a season of Living World in between, we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away.

The first release in an expansion cycle is the launch point for a new story arc, bringing with it two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards. In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion. Once that expansion’s story is complete, the next expansion will be just around the corner.

 

My question: I see no mention of new elite specs. but I do see "new gameplay and combat features."  Will future elite specs be added in with each expansion in the way that they have been? Or will the way professions evolve moving forward change?

 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Relevant link here. 

Relevant section for my question:

What It Means for You

Our future expansions for Guild Wars 2 will be the backbone of this new approach. Rather than launching an expansion every two to four years with a season of Living World in between, we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away.

The first release in an expansion cycle is the launch point for a new story arc, bringing with it two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards. In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion. Once that expansion’s story is complete, the next expansion will be just around the corner.

 

My question: I see no mention of new elite specs. but I do see "new gameplay and combat features."  Will future elite specs be added in with each expansion in the way that they have been? Or will the way professions evolve moving forward change?

 

I'd be okay if they focused on balancing the existing 27 eSpecs rather than adding another 9 to the mix.  I'd be okay if they focused on balancing all the professions before even looking at making new content.  But balancing eSpecs doesn't pay the bills, expansions do, and since it costs them money to fix the mistakes they have made with the eSpecs (how many hours of fixing did Catalyst need as example), I can definitely see them not adding new eSpecs in the future.

Preferably, and based upon how content releases have been handled the past 2 years, they would release new eSpecs separate from new Story content as they don't have enough Devs to do both.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I'd be okay if they focused on balancing the existing 27 eSpecs rather than adding another 9 to the mix.  I'd be okay if they focused on balancing all the professions before even looking at making new content.  But balancing eSpecs doesn't pay the bills, expansions do, and since it costs them money to fix the mistakes they have made with the eSpecs (how many hours of fixing did Catalyst need as example), I can definitely see them not adding new eSpecs in the future.

Preferably, and based upon how content releases have been handled the past 2 years, they would release new eSpecs separate from new Story content as they don't have enough Devs to do both.

For a lot of people the new especs are the only reason to buy the expacs.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For a lot of people the new especs are the only reason to buy the expacs.

You are absolutely correct.

Yet, many people are happy to play new stories and quest in new maps using their old eSpecs.  New stories and maps will have some development cost, but there is no maintenance cost.  eSpecs make up a huge amount of the maintenance upkeep for this game, as they are always working on more Profession Balancing, even for eSpecs 3 expansions ago, they are always being tweaked.

and I say this being a player who has enjoyed many different professions in this game as the combat system can be quite enjoyable, and am looking forward to whatever the next eSpecs might actually be.

[Uete.3805]

That's what puzzles me the most as well. It seems to be a vague enough statement, where they could essentially fit several different combat features:

• New skills (either covering missing healing/elite skills from a certain type or adding new utility types/weapons to a profession)
• Underwater combat overhaul
• New elite specs every 2nd or 3rd expac
• New elite specs for each armor type (please don't) with each expac
• ... (dare I say it?) New profession + elite specs (for the new profession)

In any case, I hope info on the first of those mini-expacs is not too far off so that we can have a better idea on what those "combat features" are. Maybe they go and re-do some already existing e-specs (even though the balance team is already kinda doing that, so it wouldn't make any sense)?

[Val.7826]

39 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

"new gameplay and combat features."

This feels more like an underwater combat rework to me

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

40 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

You are absolutely correct.

Yet, many people are happy to play new stories and quest in new maps using their old eSpecs.  New stories and maps will have some development cost, but there is no maintenance cost.  eSpecs make up a huge amount of the maintenance upkeep for this game, as they are always working on more Profession Balancing, even for eSpecs 3 expansions ago, they are always being tweaked.

and I say this being a player who has enjoyed many different professions in this game as the combat system can be quite enjoyable, and am looking forward to whatever the next eSpecs might actually be.

I'm thinking in terms of the PvP/WvW only crowd. The PvE story and maps have no value to them, only whether or not it brings a new espec.

 

35 minutes ago, Uete.3805 said:

That's what puzzles me the most as well. It seems to be a vague enough statement, where they could essentially fit several different combat features:

• New skills (either covering missing healing/elite skills from a certain type or adding new utility types/weapons to a profession)
• Underwater combat overhaul
• New elite specs every 2nd or 3rd expac
• New elite specs for each armor type (please don't) with each expac
• ... (dare I say it?) New profession + elite specs (for the new profession)

In any case, I hope info on the first of those mini-expacs is not too far off so that we can have a better idea on what those "combat features" are. Maybe they go and re-do some already existing e-specs (even though the balance team is already kinda doing that, so it wouldn't make any sense)?

It is a very vague statement. New Skills and a UW overhaul are more of a profession balance sort of thing, not an expac thing.

 

34 minutes ago, Val.7826 said:

This feels more like an underwater combat rework to me

See above comment.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Curious about this as well. I spend about 95% of my time in WvW, only really playing PvE when new content comes out, so the elite specs are my form of content. Based on their specific wording, I imagine elite specs will either be halted completely or not guaranteed in every expansion. Otherwise, I don't see why they would omit mentioning them. As much as I have always looked forward to the elite specs, I can understand that it is not exactly a long-term sustainable path due to the balancing issues they seem to bring along with them and the necessity of being able to differentiate them from each other. I think 3 elite specs each is actually a good amount, but admittedly I can't help but wonder what sort of features they could implement to make me (and others) incentivized to actually purchase the new content. New weapons or utilities would be great IMO, but would feel kinda weak to be gated behind a $20.00+ purchase.  I guess time will tell.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Za Shaloc.3908

[ThunderX.6591]

So they are starting to change the way of monetization more like ESO or similar games instead of giving us a new LWS like before?

Don't know............ need to see the price of those "future mini EXP" to judge, and how much "contents" we will get from them......... but not a big fan of the news of the changes in "new contents", i mean, i am here as a player instead to be in other games that have a similar "mini exp monetization system" for a reason...... we will see the evolution of it. (the only difference i see respect old LWS is 2 MAPS instead of 1 and the fact that now we "always" pay for it instead of getting "it" logging in as loyal players at implementation..........)

[Kodama.6453]

I really hope we will still keep getting new elite specs in the future. There are still alot of playstyles not covered and I want these to get explored by new elite specs:

• support elite spec for warrior
• boon removal elite spec for engineer
• ranged AoE damage elite spec for ranger
• etc.

[Jobber.6348]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Relevant link here. 

Relevant section for my question:

What It Means for You

Our future expansions for Guild Wars 2 will be the backbone of this new approach. Rather than launching an expansion every two to four years with a season of Living World in between, we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away.

The first release in an expansion cycle is the launch point for a new story arc, bringing with it two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards. In the following quarterly updates, we’ll add another open-world map, additional story chapters, challenge modes for the Strike Missions, a new fractal dungeon and challenge mode, new rewards, and additions to the new systems introduced in that expansion. Once that expansion’s story is complete, the next expansion will be just around the corner.

 

My question: I see no mention of new elite specs. but I do see "new gameplay and combat features."  Will future elite specs be added in with each expansion in the way that they have been? Or will the way professions evolve moving forward change?

 

Underwater combat expansion.

[SRMorgan.6124]

I am happy to pay for regular smaller expansions, if we get new elite Specs and/or Professions/races. While I tend to play most of the new content on my regular specialisations first - Tempest for life! - most of what has made EoD re-playable for me is having new Specs to learn, practice, figure out fun builds for (especially in PvE), and so forth. Cosmetic rewards alone aren't motivation enough to replay content endlessly, and it is refreshing to run around with a hammer on my main Elementalist, even if Tempest still reigns supreme.

Curious to see what they'll have to say about this - one option that has occurred to me is that, since they now do regular profession updates every 2-3 months, they may start releasing the new Specialisations after the first play test, and then update them as players experience them in game. Which would mean a 2-month frustration window, but probably get us to the same spot they normally end up eventually. (Not sure how I feel about this prospect though!)  

Edited February 14, 2023 by SRMorgan.6124

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'll reiterate, that for the PvP/WvW crowds the especs are the new expansion content, not the PvE maps, masters, strikes, and FotM levels.

I'm totally on board with their proposed cadence FWIW, but unless they are adding new maps/game types to PvP/WvW then there is a large portion of their player base that is getting left out by the expansion.

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

I mean, part of why I personally wait for other profession releases is the hopes that the new profession will be a lot more solid than what I'm currently using. Which means I'm not really waiting for new profession per say, as I am more banking on the new profs being more feature complete than the former (aka guardian balance levels). I'll happily take no more new profession for a while if it meant all the other classes attained that level of quality in design and balance.

I hope I'm not the only one that feels this way but I often forget that there are 27 professions, as it often doesn't feel like there are that many. I feel part of this is because some professions are just... Simply more robust than others, while being more accessible. So players like me naturally gravitate towards those.

[Serephen.3420]

Yeah I kinda have mixed feelings on this too...I want to like it but I'm not fully convinced yet.i actually liked the old pattern. Understandable it was hard to maintain but new specs/skills especially weapons for me to use on my class have always been one the the biggest pulls. And I play a mix of pve/pvp and wvw.

[Greviathan.6107]

I like the idea of having smaller and separate expansions, at least I can only take the content that I consider most interesting for me, without regretting too much in case of disappointment.
 

The only thing I hope they change is the frequency of the balance patches (especially for WvW/Roaming and PvP). 
They have extensively demonstrated how balancing rarely and with large patches just doesn't work, and ironically it's even a harder task. They should do much more frequent and smaller patches, at least once or twice a month IMO.

[Esufer.8762]

16 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For a lot of people the new especs are the only reason to buy the expacs.

Truth. A lot of people I wvw with said they wished they hadn't bought the expansion as they're not playing any of the new classes and there's nothing else really in there for them. If you're not playing any of the new classes, and you primarily WvW or SPVP.. what did you pay £29.99 for? Dragon's and Ritualist gear stats?

We didn't even get a sweep of new runes to go with the new classes (which I don't think I was alone in expecting.)
 

While I get committing to 9 new classes an expansion is pretty obviously either going to be a nightmare balancewise (see every past expansion at launch) or unsustainable (seriously that's a lot of new classes even considering the gap between PoF and EoD), it would be nice if there was a reason for people to buy the new expansion that haven't stepped in a PvE map since the original Lion's Arch was removed.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I wonder if the new piece of EoD story we're getting in the Jade Sea will add in the missing Espec Runes...

It was really a missed opportunity for the devs to flesh out some attribute combinations.

[Kodama.6453]

39 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I wonder if the new piece of EoD story we're getting in the Jade Sea will add in the missing Espec Runes...

It was really a missed opportunity for the devs to flesh out some attribute combinations.

Also I am majorly pissed that I missed a chance for a rune that adds an effect to elixirs.

For the first time they add an utility skill category which originally belonged to just engineer to another class and that is the same expansion they just stop doing elite spec based runes? Fml.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Also I am majorly pissed that I missed a chance for a rune that adds an effect to elixirs.

For the first time they add an utility skill category which originally belonged to just engineer to another class and that is the same expansion they just stop doing elite spec based runes? Fml.

Yeah, could you imagine if they also added a rune set based on explosions for BSW?

[Obtena.7952]

I'm having a really difficult time imagining how Anet will introduce especs as part of the story or lore with these mini-expansions. So much so that I don't believe we will ever see more especs introduced through game content. New especs are a big draw for me.

On the flip side ... Anet, please just SELL me new especs on the TP. I would buy them ... all of them. For every class. 

[Xenesis.6389]

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For a lot of people the new especs are the only reason to buy the expacs.

That would be me, and I've yet to buy the last expansion for that reason....

Gonna be kinda hilarious if they release the new mini expansions solely on pve content, now maybe without any new especs, while in the same breath state the development of the game focused on living story has held back support for everything else.  🤭🍿

Quote

Historically, with few exceptions, Living World seasons have required the focus of nearly the entire Guild Wars 2 development team to deliver them at the size, quality, and cadence that our players expect. This made it difficult to simultaneously develop expansions while supporting the game with regular content updates. It also meant that many areas of the game went undersupported.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Serephen.3420]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm having a really difficult time imagining how Anet will introduce especs as part of the story or lore with these mini-expansions. So much so that I don't believe we will ever see more especs introduced through game content. New especs are a big draw for me.

On the flip side ... Anet, please just SELL me new especs on the TP. I would buy them ... all of them. For every class. 

Selling specs on the tp would be seriously messed up.

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Selling specs on the tp would be seriously messed up.

You know you already do pay for specs right? Why would the TP be different?

Edited February 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[draxynnic.3719]

As I've said elsewhere, my suspicion is that they're not committing to elite specs because if the mini-expansions are going to be more frequent than every two years or so, that's probably too short a timeframe for a full set of elites.

However, I also don't think it would be fair to stop elite specialisations now. A number of professions have been left feeling a bit two-dimensional in terms of the elite specialisations they've been offered - that's something which is tolerable as long as there's a reasonable expectation that there'll be more to come, but if that is removed, there are probably at least two professions whose mains will revolt.