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WvW Objective Reward Scaling


Eudaimonia.8695

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If both successful and unsuccessful assaults and defenses are going to be rewarded (which is a pure zerg favored update), how long will it take before the 3 teams agree to just enter a farm 3-way at SM lord and fight there without capping? Gold reward for defending or failed assault every tick and all the players on the map together in one big castle.. A new farm has been born, lol. When WvW becomes the new PvE.. :classic_ninja:

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8 minutes ago, evlover.6270 said:

If both successful and unsuccessful assaults and defenses are going to be rewarded (which is a pure zerg favored update), how long will it take before the 3 teams agree to just enter a farm 3-way at SM lord and fight there without capping? Gold reward for defending or failed assault every tick and all the players on the map together in one big castle.. A new farm has been born, lol. When WvW becomes the new PvE.. :classic_ninja:

 

Whatever the rewards are gonna be, it's still gonna be worse than PVE in terms of gold per hour, so I don't see this happening.

Edited by Eudaimonia.8695
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5 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

The game can hardly track whether I participated in a defence event or not, when I save or don't save a camp for ten years. How can I trust the tiny portion of the Anet Dev resources working on WvW, to figure out the "scaling of rewards based on numbers of enemies you interact with in battle"? I currently lose participation while I am doing that (when I don't kill anyone in the process). Not even a "stop decay while you actively fight"(on the open map) is in place.
Most of the past "tweaks" to WvW have made k-training and flipping stuff quickly the best way to earn anything of notice (WxP, loot, participation etc.) while any other player agency that involves small scale activity, supply & upgrade activities and defence, are part of the WvW mode you only do, because you ignore that lack of any "reward".

Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised, but forgive me for having serious doubts about what will come next.

Preach son!

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4 minutes ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

 

Whatever the rewards are gonna be, it's still gonna be worse than PVE in terms of gold per hour, so I don't see this happening, and if it does, I'll just uninstall  the game.

Depends, if you add everything up like bags from kills, reward track, pip track and these new scaling rewards with the skirmish tickets, who knows.. Doesn't even have to top the PvE farms, a lot of people would settle for a bit less in value if it means they can fight and kill other people instead of just attacking some PvE hit dummies, and the extra skirmish tickets will be an incentive for people who don't have legendary armor to join in on it as well... :classic_laugh: At least the rewards for failed attacks won't be active yet so we'll be spared of it for at least a while for now :classic_tongue:

Edited by evlover.6270
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4 minutes ago, evlover.6270 said:

Depends, if you add everything up like bags from kills, reward track, pip track and these new scaling rewards with the skirmish tickets, who knows.. Doesn't even have to top the PvE farms, a lot of people would settle for a bit less in value if it means they can fight and kill other people instead of just attacking some PvE hit dummies, and the extra skirmish tickets will be an incentive for people who don't have legendary armor to join in on it as well... :classic_laugh: At least the rewards for failed attacks won't be active yet so we'll be spared of it for at least a while for now :classic_tongue:

 

If it does happen, you can bet your kitten I'll be the first to try and disrupt the farm where possible. I'll make it my life's mission if need be. 🤣

Edit: Perhaps ANet has added some kind of diminishing returns to prevent this stuff kind of gameplay.

Edited by Eudaimonia.8695
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4 minutes ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

 

If it does happen, you can bet your kitten I'll be the first to try and disrupt the farm where possible. I'll make it my life's mission if need be. 🤣

That is if you ever get into EB when all those PvE farmers would queue for it :classic_biggrin:

Edited by evlover.6270
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If this drastically increases weekly skirmish ticket cap (rather than providing skirmish track progress) it would be a massive failure on their part. The grandmaster mark shards addition is probably in response to how poorly designed that currency is.
The idea of T3 keeps defense/assaults earning memories of battle is something I suggested in the past however.

Quote

Lastly, in terms of rewards per time spent, for active participants this system will provide significantly better rewards, including rare equipment bags, WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets, or even Grandmaster Mark Shards.


What is a joke however is "it will take more active participation in the form of defeating guards and opposing players". Killing guards counts and so does standing in a ring. That is probably a technical limitation I think.

Arenanet should really reconsider the skirmish ticket part if the existing cap is ignored and include memories of battle instead there.

Edited by Infusion.7149
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30 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If this drastically increases weekly skirmish ticket cap (rather than providing skirmish track progress) it would be a massive failure on their part. The grandmaster mark shards addition is probably in response to how poorly designed that currency is.
The idea of T3 keeps defense/assaults earning memories of battle is something I suggested in the past however.


What is a joke however is "it will take more active participation in the form of defeating guards and opposing players". Killing guards counts and so does standing in a ring. That is probably a technical limitation I think.

Arenanet should really reconsider the skirmish ticket part if the existing cap is ignored and include memories of battle instead there.

I like it, but mainly because it gives a very active way to speed up the WvW legendary acquisition, but it also does nothing for long term players already drowning in tickets. They also need to add in a ticket sink, like the exchange so many of us have been asking for, or at least let you buy Mist warped bundles with them.

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14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I like it, but mainly because it gives a very active way to speed up the WvW legendary acquisition, but it also does nothing for long term players already drowning in tickets. They also need to add in a ticket sink, like the exchange so many of us have been asking for, or at least let you buy Mist warped bundles with them.

Skirmish track progress would do the same thing for people not playing enough to finish diamond (i.e. one gold participation T3 cap/defense gives 1 skirmish track tier in pips for example). Unless you are at Wood tier skirmish track (which means you do not even get the bonus pip) then each tier gives at least 5 skirmish tickets. The most common complaint by new players is only being able to finish gold/plat if not less. Adding skirmish tickets makes it less appealing for people "drowning in tickets" since those people loop diamond.

I have very real concerns about how the participation is going to be counted especially in offhours. If someone is playing against essentially doors, they would still be able to ktrain T3s. Likewise if your server is exceedingly strong in the matchup and defense is rewarded then the participation should only count players killed when the numbers are roughly equal or we would end up with the 50 v 20 complaints.

edit: and my point about memories of battle still stands. There is a large disparity of a person finishing diamond and the number of memories of battle they obtain unless they are looping the skirmish track many times as each skirmish tier only has 4 memories of battle. Unless you are opting for Mistforged Triumphant Armor you will need memories of battle in bulk , the same goes for the ascended weapons and trinkets.

Edited by Infusion.7149
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6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Skirmish track progress would do the same thing for people not playing enough to finish diamond (i.e. one gold participation T3 cap/defense gives 1 skirmish track tier in pips for example). Unless you are at Wood tier skirmish track (which means you do not even get the bonus pip) then each tier gives at least 5 skirmish tickets. The most common complaint by new players is only being able to finish gold/plat if not less. Adding skirmish tickets makes it less appealing for people "drowning in tickets" since those people loop diamond.

I have very real concerns about how the participation is going to be counted especially in offhours. If someone is playing against essentially doors, they would still be able to ktrain T3s. Likewise if your server is exceedingly strong in the matchup and defense is rewarded then the participation should only count players killed when the numbers are roughly equal or we would end up with the 50 v 20 complaints.

edit: and my point about memories of battle still stands. There is a large disparity of a person finishing diamond and the number of memories of battle they obtain unless they are looping the skirmish track many times as each skirmish tier only has 4 memories of battle. Unless you are opting for Mistforged Triumphant Armor you will need memories of battle in bulk , the same goes for the ascended weapons and trinkets.

MoBs should have also been in the rewards table for events, but we will see tomorrow I guess.

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It's 

6 minutes ago, Aelin.9317 said:

I do hope they improve things for support players rewards in WvW. You get a lot less playing as the sup for your group but you are vital in large fights. 

It's possible that these new rewards will also be tagged-based, meaning support players are only going to get shafted harder. Can we get a confirmation from the developers on how this works?

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While there isn't much info out, this update sounds very promising to me.

 

Conceptually, they seem to understand that failed assaults must be rewarded to diminish the incentive to zerg everything down.  They also, for the first time in recent memory, verbally acknowledged the existence of defensive play and have at least said they're going to attempt to reward it.

 

The devil may be in the details, but if they're sincere about the idea behind these changes then I can weather a few failed attempts.  This is a vision I can believe in.  

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https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-world-objective-scaling-rewards/

 

OK, lets look at that:
Additional rewards for

  • (1) Successful assaults: flipping control of the objective.
  • (2) Successful defenses: Repel the Attackers events, which end after three minutes.
  • (3) Unsuccessful defenses: losing the objective when the attackers successfully take control of it.
  • (4) Additionally, we want failed assaults to be rewarded in this fashion. This is currently not functioning, and we are working on it for a future update.

(1) currently is the most rewarding and done by "the zerg" very quicky. Single/small groups will flip slower (e.g. because they need longer to build siege and use siege). Making that more rewarding gives proportionally more to the big group and not to the small.
(2) & (3) currently not rewarding and punishing, because you don't get any item rewards, not WxP, lose supply and lose participation. Activities that stalled the loss of participation have been taken away by ANet's patch that removed WxP from repairing. The longer you try defending the more you lose, because you do not participate in an activity that helps you progress (because successful defence is negligible). Adding rewards to (3) sounds like you could open the door to "help tagging" without even helping by the large group (which will still be better off doing (1) more often. 
(4) This is additional rewards for attacking, on top of (1) being the best thing to do for rewards.
Because attacking has to be initial motivation for conflict and not stalemate fights forever, (1) attacking kind of has to be the best way to earn rewards. Giving it the icing on the cake with (4) might not shift the focus to defence, when (2) and (3) rewards don't get raised close to (1)+(4). If failing and attack and failing a defence are similarly weighted, the big attacker will always be the one favoured by the system.
 

"First off, this system doesn’t touch camps, the dolyak events, or other aspects of WvW. It’s only for attacking or defending the event objectives of towers, keeps, and castles."
So roamers and small groups don't get anything out of the reward improvements.

"it will take more active participation in the form of defeating guards and opposing players and/or standing in the circle to complete the capture process to achieve silver- and gold-tier rewards."
Currently you can kill guards at far away gates to earn participation. Does that mean you have to tag the lord now? Is that really the problem for the large group that most likely ploughs through the structure? What about the small guy, you keeps the gate open and holds back defenders coming in, without being at the lord. Most likely that guy will have a harder time getting his reward. As long as bronze, silver and gold rewards are pretty much giving the same participation time (e.g. 10 min) all of that is irrelevant and WxP don't really matter for the zerg, because they flip faster than small groups.
 

"Lastly, in terms of rewards per time spent, for active participants this system will provide significantly better rewards, including rare equipment bags, WvW Skirmish Claim Tickets, or even Grandmaster Mark Shards."
This is a carrot on a stick. It is like telling me precursor weapons drop everywhere in game. Not wrong, but highly unlikely.

 

"and scaling those rewards based on participation and upgrade status, we anticipate players will engage in more direct conflict as opposed to moving from one undefended objective to another."
Good, but who has those higher tier castles and keeps. Those with superior numbers on the map. We have come full circle to the map population issues again.

Unless defence participation, either successful or unsuccessful gets significant reward buffs a small defender team can get, the increase to already good attacking rewards + attacking failed rewards will hardly change anything from what I have read.

Surprise me ANet! Make me defend a tower against impossible odds and not turn around to cap a sentry, because that will be the objectively better option.

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3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

People will just fight and rez within an objective to continuously get the successful/unsuccessful defense/assaults all day long, especially in SMC.

How is that a problem?  Such events occur regularly where people are fighting continuously over an objective.  The worst is no one fighting/trying for it.

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3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

As much of a problem as K training tbh.

How?  A defended and upgraded structure can take hours to cap, sometimes longer than guilds rally for.  How is getting rewarded for bothering to defend it a problem?  You do realize that ktraining has historically been far more rewarding, right?

Edited by Chaba.5410
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2 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Wow. Really? So what's actually going on at the moment rewards-wise?

 

Quote

This update gives increased rewards for those objectives, and due to the wide-reaching nature of the change, we have released it in a testing state with several event types giving out non-final rewards

 

Who knows. Have to get tests in game for data, cause they like to be vague as usual.

Edited by Xenesis.6389
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7 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Today's update has been released without the final rewards to the events....... they are testing the participation levels first....

lmao.

/jumpsoffthehypetrainagain

I think you are misreading some workplace jargon.

"Non-final" doesn't necessarily mean without final rewards.  It can mean that what you get rewarded with may not be the final form of rewards, which is more likely given the context of it being testing and they said in the blog post they aren't sure of the "breakpoints" yet.

Edited by Chaba.5410
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10 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I think you are misreading some workplace jargon.

"Non-final" doesn't necessarily mean without final rewards.  It can mean that what you get rewarded with may not be the final form of rewards, which is more likely given the context of it being testing and they said in the blog post they aren't sure of the "breakpoints" yet.

I read it as tickets/marks are not available yet, not that the gold tier of reward pool is not available at all.

 

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