Now That Mantras Are Useless In WvW... What is Next to Go?

[Jitters.9401]

I was regularly running 2 mantras before the change. Now I am forced to run zero.

 

For example.... I am roaming. Got in a 1v1 with a necro. I couldn't finish even 1 charge casting.  Each time I tried I was interrupted and it is not like a person can keep trying to recast over and over till it works. You still need to dodge, use defensive skills, etc. 

 

And what about fighting multiple enemies? Yeah..... good luck on ever charging a Mantra.

Mantras have been totally "kittened". Thank you anet for giving mesmers less skill choices in WvW (sarcasm).

 

So what will be next to go? Tell me ahead of time so I know what not to use in the future.  

[appelflap.8310]

Anet specifically said mesmers are not allowed to be good in wvw/spvp. A few more months and the next AAA mmo is on the way, gw2 will be dead or a pve simulator. Potential no new elite specs with upcoming expansions, meaning they will focus on pve content.

Edited February 22, 2023 by appelflap.8310

[setless.6039]

I could live with the change if the trade off was really worth it. But currently only one of the mantras is really worth to use - namely Mantra of Resolve. The rest of them got gutted hard, like a straight up nerf.

 

For example Mantra of Pain just got a nerf to like 50% of its damage potential. Before, you could've use both charges to have nice damage burst. Now you can use just a single charge, otherwise you will lock yourself from its next charges, and for what - 8 stacks of might for a measly 5s (which, let's be straight - you will already be capped with might in combat usally). And remember, the damage the mantra does in single charge is comparable to an auto attack - which while preparing it you cannot perform. There is also another issue, which is turbo irritating: assume you've used both charges at once, and because of a lag or keyboard double stroke, you are getting locked into mantra preparation cast by accident .

 

All in all, I really tried to like the change - cus mechanicaly it's interesting - but unfortunately in its current state the mantra usuability has dropped of a cliff.

Edited February 22, 2023 by setless.6039

[Sapujapu.4072]

I am not saying they don't need any improvements, but the notion that they are absolutely not usable is ridiculous. The concept of charging takes a while to get used to, but just as one wouldn't just stand in front of an enemy zerg as a staff ele and try casting Meteor Shower, one shouldn't just stand mindlessly in front of their opponent, praying they don't notice the 2,25s charge animation. There is a lot that can be done to 'cover' the charge part - Prestige/Decoy/Mass Invis, Distort mid-cast, LoS against certain classes, no port spots against others.

The improvements I would definitely welcome are: no interrupt cooldown if the mesmer interrupts the cast themselves (by being forced to dodge for example) but I wouldn't know if something like that is possible to do; Restorative Mantras interacting with both the charge part and the ammo part (reduce the healing for ammo or charging if it's too much); buffing the charge effects slightly.

[Dadnir.5038]

What is next to go? They could revert the guardian's spirit weapons back to what they used to be. I mean the spirit weapons obviously "lost an important part of their identity".

[Zaret.1450]

I think they may reverse it back, i mean is there any positive feedback about the mantras change, be it fb or mesmer, either that or they buff them somehow.

Yeah im being optimistic but with all the complains we shoot they should have seen they fkd up

[Jitters.9401]

1 hour ago, Sapujapu.4072 said:

they are absolutely not usable is ridiculous

Your posts speaks like it is written by someone who either:

(1) Only goes to wvw to kill the vet critter

 

(2] Has absolutely zero play time as a mesmer. 

 

(A) Distortion has 42.5 second cooldown for my build. You suggest I burn a life saving 42.5 second cooldown ability to cover a 2.25 recharge? 🤣 😂 🤣 

 

(B) Mass invis has a 60 second cooldown. You would burn a 60 second escape ability to cast a 2.25 second recharge on a basically useless skill? 

 

(C) Apparently you can pull a "los" out of a hat.  Sorry to say but not so sorry.... reality and fantasy are totally two different things. 

 

Aaaannnnd  There is zero difficulty with the concept of charging a Mantra just like there is zero difficulty in the concept of one person of lifting a 3 ton hunk of rock with their bare hands. Concept is not an issue but Successful Application can very well be. 

 

 

[ascii.1369]

2 hours ago, Sapujapu.4072 said:

There is a lot that can be done to 'cover' the charge part - Prestige/Decoy/Mass Invis, Distort mid-cast, LoS against certain classes, no port spots against others.

The issue with that is, you have to waste a defensive skill you could have used for something usefull. I tried to make it work in PvP and WvW roaming since the change, but it's just not worth it. You can't just go afk for 2.25 seconds in the middle of a fight and expect to still win. Yes sure you can cover it with defensive cds, but it's much better to just pick a skill that doesn't require you to blow a big defensive cd.

To be honest I didn't remember it being this bad. Only now that I played it again did I remember how niche mantras were in this form.

Edited February 22, 2023 by ascii.1369

[mungozen.2379]

All the lols. Anet devs decide to mess with Mantras twice to improve FB QoL and both times Mesmers get shafted.  There was no reason to make these changes either time as we can see, Mantras are not really playable in either iteration. Or rather, many players have issues using mantras effectively and thereby don’t use them. 
 

I have no faith Anet will do anything to improve Mesmer mantras unless it is piggy backed onto FB QoL again. 

[dead.7638]

There is a solution to this on virt.   I’ll let you all figure that out.   Over all I do not like the change, mantra of distraction is a must for my build so adapting a bit of play style has to be done.   I agree this was a stealth nerf to mantra overall.   Revert back the change if you cared about the Mesmer community, anet.   However the intentional favoritism on ele is a complete slap in the face towards everyone.   If we’re going to buff classes in such a way all other specs need to be compensated for counter play.   This is nothing new?   So I’m just move on, anet devs have shown us they will do what they want regardless of balancing.

Edited February 22, 2023 by dead.7638

[viquing.8254]

They have to balance number but I prefer current gameplay.

Not in terms of efficiency but in terms of diversity.

I can find you olds vids if you want but I have no problems playing with MoD packaged in. There is always periods where you have time recasting.

The difficulty is all about positionning @Jitters.9401

Now I totally understand the efficiency loss, it's just that not all mesmers want undifferenciated mantras.

Edited February 22, 2023 by viquing.8254

[dead.7638]

It’s a big change in terms of playing.   We went from something that was instant cast time to having a cast time at all.   It hasn’t made mantras useless, I won’t go that far.   But there is a handicap to having to recast.   Playing virt is all about positioning, otherwise you’rea sitting duck and won’t get any dps off.   Knowing your opponent and their cds will give you a cue when you need to recast.   It’sa learning curve we didn’t need.   Especially in the state of the current meta.

Edited February 22, 2023 by dead.7638

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

It hasn’t made mantras useless

Sorry but I disagree.

 

When you go from being able to use mantras while fighting multiple opponents to not ever being able to charge to use during a fight with multiple opponents, that = useless. 

 

WvW against actual people and not vet creatures is very fast paced. 2.25 seconds of such a minute--->

 

((((pronounced "my newt" who are not familiar with this version of the word. No offense meant))))

 

---> return on investment is just ridiculous. But trying to recharge mantras in a fight against more than 1 enemy is suicide. I literally jump into fights against 4 or more people knowing I cannot escape just to see how long I can survive.

 

and guess what... Trying to charge a Mantra means I'd die.in 2.25 seconds. Hiw useful is that? 

 

Not at all. Sadly 

[Jitters.9401]

4 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

There is a solution to this on virt.   I’ll let you all figure that out.

 

Sorry but this statement means you have nothing to offer that can not be rebutted easily. 

 

I bet it is just pve or wvw only in large groups and hang at the back. 

[Jitters.9401]

7 hours ago, ascii.1369 said:

You can't just go afk

I like your wording.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Casting mantra while fighting a thief? Simply hilarious. 

[dead.7638]

34 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Sorry but this statement means you have nothing to offer that can not be rebutted easily

I meant nothing by this to be offensive to you or anyone.   So let’s come off that house yeah?   It’s simple too, it’s basically built in the spec.   Starts with an A and ends in egis.  I’ll let you put this one together.

[dead.7638]

Playing mirage and using a dodge while not ideal will allow you to cast.   There are ways around this.   Trying to be optimistic here….  I do not agree with the change.   But it’s hard to believe this will get reverted anytime soon.   As another mentioned Mesmer are getting the bad end of a deal because of guardian qol issue.   I don’t play guard but I believe many don’t agree with this changes either.   So maybe we should be posting mantra changes in the guard forum so they’ll get notice.

[Salt Mode.3780]

I mentioned this in other threads but the problem with the current Mantras is when they decided to change it to no cast they nerfed our Mantras to accommodate this change, now that it has been reverted they did not revert the nerfs they did on it which makes them extremely lackluster. 

[Jitters.9401]

14 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Starts with an A and ends in egis.  I’ll let you put this one together

Lol  Aegis is your theoretical go to? Hahahahaha. 

Theory and practicality are not even close here. 

 

One auto attack cancels aegis. 

You cannot control when you use aegis or what pops its use.  That occurs the moment your opponent(s) attack.

 

 

I am thinking you don't really play mesmer roaming  in wvw. 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jitters.9401

[Jitters.9401]

18 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Casting mantra while fighting a thief? Simply hilarious. 

I was going to write this but you nailed it. 

[dead.7638]

I practice this now and works but maybe a boon such as aegis that a virt can basically spam is a skill cap you haven’t reached yet.   I play spvp and roam for 1vx fights in wvw.   I honestly don’t know why you are this aggressive over not knowing your own tool kit.

[atlashugged.7642]

I prefer the current implementation of Mantras. You charge before the fight, or between fights. And you get a nice benefit. I particularly prefer this for Mantra of Distraction.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

11 hours ago, Sapujapu.4072 said:

I am not saying they don't need any improvements, but the notion that they are absolutely not usable is ridiculous. The concept of charging takes a while to get used to, but just as one wouldn't just stand in front of an enemy zerg as a staff ele and try casting Meteor Shower, one shouldn't just stand mindlessly in front of their opponent, praying they don't notice the 2,25s charge animation. There is a lot that can be done to 'cover' the charge part - Prestige/Decoy/Mass Invis, Distort mid-cast, LoS against certain classes, no port spots against others.

The improvements I would definitely welcome are: no interrupt cooldown if the mesmer interrupts the cast themselves (by being forced to dodge for example) but I wouldn't know if something like that is possible to do; Restorative Mantras interacting with both the charge part and the ammo part (reduce the healing for ammo or charging if it's too much); buffing the charge effects slightly.

I may be missing something here, but it looks like most of your solutions to cover prep for a mantra after putting it on CD is to burn another skill and put it on CD? 😕

[Mell.4873]

Just give them all another change and call it a day.