Now That Mantras Are Useless In WvW... What is Next to Go?

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

Why is it every time I go to the wvw board every thread has a title or opening sentence that makes an extremely minor imbalance or change sound like an absolute catastrophe that will kill the game forever? Y'all are so dramatic I swear lmao

[Daniel Handler.4816]

2 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I used to run 2 mantras actually. Mantra of Resolve for reliable cleanse, and Recovery for rune/trait procs on heal skill. On my FB I used not 2 but 3 mantras! Not anymore.

Can't speak to firebrand. Their mantras work in reverse, they have different playstyles, and different access to stab.

But if you are running Mesmer mantras for healing then you are running inspiration, which means Resolve is heavily outclassed by traited Signet of Midnight, free expertise with an active that is 1 second invuln + 1 second stealth + stun break + aoe blind + removes 5 conditions. And can even convert 2 additional conditions to boons if need be (though inspiration + chaos is excessive when you also have restorative illusions and mender's purity for cleanse).

Recovery+midnight+blink should be sufficient for most things. Any addition problems with condi's would be solved better with arcane thievery or even mimicking the signet.

 

edit: I also did not confuse face your post. I think someone else did because you posted it twice. Not because the content was weird.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Daniel Handler.4816]

21 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

It's quite hilarious how people are saying to use cooldowns to charge ineffective mantras when there are literally skills out there that do even more without needing a charge time or cast time. Alright, let me pop my invis to charge my mantra and be a sitting duck god forbid I get ganked and need an escape, or wait let me just use my distortion to charge up my mantras because I won't be needing that later on...in terms of access to stability Mesmer is on the WAY lower end. I don't know if people actually PLAY Mesmer or theorize how things should play out. 

There aren't. And you aren't saving skills to charge mantras. You are already stealthing, repositioning, ccing, shattering etc.  Builds that need to use mantras have the time to charge them.

If am on an interrupt build and I need to get distraction back up. What does it cost me to use diversion to interrupt them interrupting my cast. What do I lose? 

[viquing.8254]

21 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Casting mantra while fighting a thief? Simply hilarious. 

Dunny what is hilarious I did it vs sind in DD build in the past.

21 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I mentioned this in other threads but the problem with the current Mantras is when they decided to change it to no cast they nerfed our Mantras to accommodate this change, now that it has been reverted they did not revert the nerfs they did on it which makes them extremely lackluster. 

It's pretty much this, they didn't unerf all of them and it's not fine.

 

@Jitters.9401 :

- sure it's not anymore a random skill like everyone has in it's bar.

- if the opponent rupt it, they burn a CC doing it which can be exploited.

About crying on burning defensive CD, when you cast mass invis what are you doing during the invis ? (don't tell me you always preburst in the middle of the duration.). Same when you LoS to resustain, you have plenty of times to recast.
 

Just because I'm bored of people crying it's unplayable :

First look at all Jazz vids during the time there was cast :

https://www.youtube.com/@JazzmanX/videos

One for example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJPr2yB6EJA

• Even if they lose, look at how the mes run 3 sec out of range to recast : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMu-fKBrJUU
• Just 2 m move out of the fight is enough to recast when eveyone focus on objectives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hXFIbAlrO0
• During a torch stealth versus thief/gard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7c4Jjux0l4

 

Now stop saying me it's unplyable I give you vids where you can see how people manage the recast, sure it's not brainless random skill anymore, you have more things to do and its in a way less efficient but it's manageable.

edit : love to the people confused just after I reply who didn't even look at vids 😄

Edited February 23, 2023 by viquing.8254

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Then they would increase the recharge cooldown to compensate which would nerf the people who can regularly recharge them.

Just don't use the last charge and you basically have the old mantra back.

I think that's the point, best of both worlds. Right now, you can only use it once before the last charge will put the whole skill on cooldown.

I would also like Restorative Mantras to apply to each individual charge, even if it's at a further 50% reduction.
You could even re-introduce the very old trait for boon/damage reduction when channeling a mantra.

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Just don't use the last charge and you basically have the old mantra back

This is false.

With the old mantras you could use the last charge and not have to worry about being free cast upon because you had to recharge. 

Sometimes you really need to use that charge.  

[viquing.8254]

Wihch was recast like in the vids I link.

[Jitters.9401]

1 hour ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

I mean if you are running a 4 mantra "healing" build you should probably conform

Why would you tell people not to play what they find the most fun and what you think they should play?

 

[viquing.8254]

Exatly now mantras are the only skills with this gameplay.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Just now, Jitters.9401 said:

Why would you tell people not to play what they find the most fun and what you think they should play?

 

Because WvW is also a competitive game mode based on group play. I want to win.

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

He’s a sweaty tryhard i wouldn’t waste your time here.   Can’t pull his head out far enough to see his childish arrogance all over the forums.

Lol

(1)

It is called disdain. I don't like when people think everyone else should build and play how they think classes should be built and played.  To me that is arrogance. 

 

(2)

I like unorthodox. It is how I enjoy the game when I build and play for it. 

 

(3)

I also do not believe there is anyone better than me. That's why I do my own thing. On the few times I've been taken by surprise, I go through the combat log, go over skills used and when, contemplate, and the next time I meet that person I win. 

I'd much rather do that than hunt online for what people call the perfect build because what suits s9me9ne else does not necessarily suit me.

 

I will give one concession though.  I think if people were confident enough to do their own theory crafting to what they found  the most enjoyable, they could come up with their own amazing builds. 

[Jitters.9401]

10 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Because WvW is also a competitive game mode based on group play. I want to win.

So what you want is more important than what they want? Gotcha.

 

And this statement makes you even more funny.  You are responding to a solo roamer, saying that solo roamer needs to play how you think they should play based upon "group play". 

 

Again. That is funny. 

[Delrago.2098]

Coming from a solo roamer, mantras a fine for the most part. Do the cd nerfs feel bad, yea sure. Is there still pretty much no reason to take pain mantra yes, but  Mantras needed to be changed. no counter play to the instant mantra heal or 1200 range instant rupt wasn’t healthy.  How ever most players I see use the last charge of their mantra and hyper focus on trying to charge it as fast as possible. No decision making, no waiting for the opponents burst, if it gets rupted or canceled they instantly try to charge it again. It’s a big long animation and no one talks about how much you can use that to ur advantage. Players see the animation and try to capitalize on that and leave themselves open more times than not. I’m not going to say mantras are easy to use still because they are not, counter-play for them exists again but they a definitely not unplayable.  

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 hour ago, viquing.8254 said:

:- sure it's not anymore a random skill like everyone has in it's bar.

- if the opponent rupt it, they burn a CC doing it which can be exploited.

About crying on burning defensive CD, when you cast mass invis what are you doing during the invis ? (don't tell me you always preburst in the middle of the duration.). Same when you LoS to resustain, you have plenty of times to recast.

THANK YOU.

57 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

So what you want is more important than what they want? Gotcha.

I want mantras to stay as they are now. So what you want is also more important than what I want.

57 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

 

And this statement makes you even more funny.  You are responding to a solo roamer, saying that solo roamer needs to play how you think they should play based upon "group play". 

Again. That is funny. 

 

Nothing I have said is based upon zerging beyond when I have specifically talked about zerging. But solo roaming is also group play, you randomly dying affects the score.

I have also solo roamed quite extensively.  I also didn't say need. Your question was " Why would you tell people not to play what they find the most fun and what you think they should play?"

You can tell people many things. They don't have to listen. I can voice my opinion as I am doing right now.

You are fully welcome to continue playing whatever random builds you play and having a less than stellar experience because Anet cannot and will not cater to the minority .

I will continue to advise people because I enjoy winning and I think other people do too.

I maintain that 4 mantras is insane and you are better off playing Tempest, deal with it.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Daniel Handler.4816]

8 minutes ago, Delrago.2098 said:

Coming from a solo roamer, mantras a fine for the most part. Do the cd nerfs feel bad, yea sure. Is there still pretty much no reason to take pain mantra yes, but  Mantras needed to be changed. no counter play to the instant mantra heal or 1200 range instant rupt wasn’t healthy.  How ever most players I see use the last charge of their mantra and hyper focus on trying to charge it as fast as possible. No decision making, no waiting for the opponents burst, if it gets rupted or canceled they instantly try to charge it again. It’s a big long animation and no one talks about how much you can use that to ur advantage. Players see the animation and try to capitalize on that and leave themselves open more times than not. I’m not going to say mantras are easy to use still because they are not, counter-play for them exists again but they a definitely not unplayable.  

This is the most accurate summary of current events. 

If I could pin a comment in this thread it would be this one.

[katte nici.9483]

Roaming Mesmer sucks since like 2019. Many years. It's been treated unfairly for a long time. We know the devs don't like the class. And after years of that abuse they give us this patch.

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

There aren't. And you aren't saving skills to charge mantras. You are already stealthing, repositioning, ccing, shattering etc.  Builds that need to use mantras have the time to charge them.

If am on an interrupt build and I need to get distraction back up. What does it cost me to use diversion to interrupt them interrupting my cast. What do I lose? 

Are you fine with Shake it Off suddenly getting a 2 second cast time?

[Gesbo.6420]

3 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Are you fine with Shake it Off suddenly getting a 2 second cast time?

Shake it off is a shout, though, and mantras are a completely different type of skill. Mantras never should have been turned into shouts in the first place. I am a firm believer that the cast time needs to be halved and the skills would feel much much better.

[katte nici.9483]

Or the charge bonus be much stronger.

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

Shake it off is a shout, though, and mantras are a completely different type of skill. Mantras never should have been turned into shouts in the first place. I am a firm believer that the cast time needs to be halved and the skills would feel much much better.

Oh ok, so only Mesmer skills need obnoxiously long cast times. How weird.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Are you fine with Shake it Off suddenly getting a 2 second cast time?

Shake it off removes 4 conditions on a 30 second cooldown.    .1333 per second

Mantra of resolve removes all/3 +3 + 3 on a ~10.25 to 14.5 second loop.  ~.87+ per second.

Why are you at all surprised that a skill four to six times as potent also has a longer cast time?

Edited February 24, 2023 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Levetty.1279]

22 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Shake it off removes 4 conditions on a 30 second cooldown.    .1333 per second

Mantra of resolve removes all/3 +3 + 3 on a ~10.25 to 14.5 second loop.  ~.87+ per second.

Why are you at all surprised that a skill four to six times as potent also has a longer cast time?

Power Cleanse removes 3 conditions.

And I am not surprised that people who have a history of wanting Mesmer to be nerfed for no reason are fine with a 2+ second cooldown being slapped on that skill and then claiming it is somehow a buff.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 minute ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Power Cleanse removes 3 conditions.

And I am not surprised that people who have a history of wanting Mesmer to be nerfed for no reason are fine with a 2+ second cooldown being slapped on that skill and then claiming it is somehow a buff.

Yes and you have two charges of power cleanse + the recharge effect of mantra of resolve. My math is very slightly off because there is a 1 second cooldown between charges. 

Comparing a skill to one part of a chain skill is naive at best, intentionally dishonest at worst.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

5 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Can't speak to firebrand. Their mantras work in reverse, they have different playstyles, and different access to stab.

But if you are running Mesmer mantras for healing then you are running inspiration, which means Resolve is heavily outclassed by traited Signet of Midnight, free expertise with an active that is 1 second invuln + 1 second stealth + stun break + aoe blind + removes 5 conditions. And can even convert 2 additional conditions to boons if need be (though inspiration + chaos is excessive when you also have restorative illusions and mender's purity for cleanse).

Recovery+midnight+blink should be sufficient for most things. Any addition problems with condi's would be solved better with arcane thievery or even mimicking the signet.

 

edit: I also did not confuse face your post. I think someone else did because you posted it twice. Not because the content was weird.

Signet of Midnight is an excellent skill. I used it on my stealth build, but it's a 30s CD and the expertise is wasted on power builds. Arcane Thievery is another great skill that I currently use on my mirage, but it can be negated by an evasive foe. Resolve cannot be stopped and could fire off twice in succession under heavy pressure before recharge was up. It was the most reliable condi hate skill, especially for power builds. 
Your advice is good but not ubiquitous.

My phone was double posting all day. It was annoying. I think it was connection issue.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

53 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Signet of Midnight is an excellent skill. I used it on my stealth build, but it's a 30s CD and the expertise is wasted on power builds. Arcane Thievery is another great skill that I currently use on my mirage, but it can be negated by an evasive foe. Resolve cannot be stopped and could fire off twice in succession under heavy pressure before recharge was up. It was the most reliable condi hate skill, especially for power builds. 
Your advice is good but not ubiquitous.

My phone was double posting all day. It was annoying. I think it was connection issue.

I agree somewhat. My advice definitely should not and cannot apply to every circumstance.

In this case, it feels like the mantra is overkill. With access to sigils of cleaning, menders purity, restorative illusions, and blurred inscriptions you already have a boatload of cleanse that cannot be stopped.  

And there are many roaming power builds that do not require conditions at all to kill you.

Arcane thievery gives quickness and removes boons.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Daniel Handler.4816
punctuation