Mesmer Keeps Getting Worse

[Voyant.1327]

I started playing shortly after Virtuoso was released with EOD. It is quite literally the only spec I find enjoyable & the reason I got into the game.

Patch after patch it has become less and less enjoyable and diverse. Each update removes creative options or breaks synergy with other things. I remember reading when they said they weren't going to balance off theoretical top end in perfect settings & felt like that meant the game was going to open up more.

It hasn't from my position. Quite literally every single update something new gets broken for me.

- The awful added f4/f5 thing, destroyed regen uptime for my support based build. 

- Manipulations & Mantra changes literally used to use one of each, both are now useless for what utility they offered now. Mantras now are especially useless & I felt like I finally found a niche for em before.

- The boons nightmare of June 2022 that essentially said "oh you wanted fury uptime nah, how about you give everyone fury half the time instead." Did not help when I was a support build looking for dps options. Essentially need to take another skill point and ruined the dueling tree for my style of play.

I get that the metas might be fine, but dear god you try to do anything creative with a Mesmer & they just keep patching every option away.

Just make it fun and open the class open instead of forcing it down one narrow lane please.

Sincerely,

A Virt Healer

[Mell.4873]

Virtuoso has had barely any changes since it launched.

1. I'm a bit lost on this one. What was giving you Regeneration, Duelist's Reversal?
   Blocking with Aegis or Bladesong 4 has never been better. The only change is a 15 second increase to Bladesong 4 in PvP only.
2. Again, both of these are a buff since more Aegis means more boons and Virtuoso has the most invulnerabilities in the game which could easily be used to channel a Mantra.
3. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plate_of_Sweet_Curried_Mussels, that's what i use in solo PvE

Otherwise, good post and valid concerns 🙂

Edited February 25, 2023 by Mell.4873

[apharma.3741]

I'm honestly not sure if mesmer is in the worst state it's ever been in now or whether this was just before/after CMCs big patch. 
I'd probably say it was earlier because chrono wasn't good and didn't have distortion, mirage had one dodge and was basically ineffective and Virtuoso was in it's weaker state when launched. Yeah I think EoD launch mesmer was in it's weakest state.
Which speaks volumes about how bad it was and how bad it still is but we have mATs soon, we're going to see all those virtuoso's dominating like some NA players predicted right?

[Salt Mode.3780]

26 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

I'm honestly not sure if mesmer is in the worst state it's ever been in now or whether this was just before/after CMCs big patch. 
I'd probably say it was earlier because chrono wasn't good and didn't have distortion, mirage had one dodge and was basically ineffective and Virtuoso was in it's weaker state when launched. Yeah I think EoD launch mesmer was in it's weakest state.
Which speaks volumes about how bad it was and how bad it still is but we have mATs soon, we're going to see all those virtuoso's dominating like some NA players predicted right?

Things can be fabricated, pro players can make anything work. How many years have win-trading been plaguing the sPvP scene? Too long with no one to care that is why that game mode is bleeding so quickly. 

[viquing.8254]

PvP side, mesmer was out of meta for 2 years + before EoD.

Recently chrono was played again.

So looking at overall numbers it's in a better state than before. Virtuoso was never designed to be a PvP spec so nothing new.

Aaaaaand anet cut down mesmer synergy since launch so nothing new, the liste of gameplay destroyed over the years are more than 5. I'm glab mantra came back to  what it was.

[apharma.3741]

39 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

PvP side, mesmer was out of meta for 2 years + before EoD.

Recently chrono was played again.

So looking at overall numbers it's in a better state than before. Virtuoso was never designed to be a PvP spec so nothing new.

Aaaaaand anet cut down mesmer synergy since launch so nothing new, the liste of gameplay destroyed over the years are more than 5. I'm glab mantra came back to  what it was.

Honestly it was all downhill after chrono came about, a lot of core traits and synergy was deleted to reduce chronomancer abuse, ironically though more people believe that peak mesmer was condi chrono before ANet deleted it to make room for PoF.

@Salt Mode.3780It's mostly NA that's seemed to hate mesmer ever since they all stopped using it and swapped to thieves back in 2013/2014 iirc. Since then I barely see any top PvP player that isn't a mesmer main that likes, understands or even has an unbiased opinion of it. Not that EU is free of those kinds of people, just the top players in EU have always liked the unique plays mesmer brought and wanted temperance when nerfing it.

[viquing.8254]

51 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

Honestly it was all downhill after chrono came about, a lot of core traits and synergy was deleted to reduce chronomancer abuse, ironically though more people believe that peak mesmer was condi chrono before ANet deleted it to make room for PoF.

Yes, chrono F5 with double skills  + chronophantasma with double phantasms traits had too much impacts and then core was overnerfed.

[Jianyu.7065]

Man, I'm a newcomer to Mesmer and I don't know. I started playing Mesmer recently after having played Thief for many years and I can tell you that Mirage is ridiculously much more powerful than a Thief is - at the very least. 

 

I don't know enough yet about Mesmer at its core but if you compare Deadeye to Mirage there is no question that the comparison is 100% lopsided toward Mirage - in OW/pve anyway, from my perspective.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

Man, I'm a newcomer to Mesmer and I don't know. I started playing Mesmer recently after having played Thief for many years and I can tell you that Mirage is ridiculously much more powerful than a Thief is - at the very least. 

 

I don't know enough yet about Mesmer at its core but if you compare Deadeye to Mirage there is no question that the comparison is 100% lopsided toward Mirage - in OW/pve anyway, from my perspective.

You and everyone I talk to I game has the same experience. Sure I want the second dodge back for Mirage but currently in the hands a pro it is amazing. 

It really boils down to resource depletion especially in WvW. Mirage is amazing at getting people to waste all thier cooldowns on trying to kill you. 

 

Honestly it shows how powerful Mirage once was if it can still be a very strong Roaming choice. Most of the negativity on this forum comes from people who remember the good old days when Mesmer dominated many game modes. 

[katte nici.9483]

6 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

Man, I'm a newcomer to Mesmer and I don't know. I started playing Mesmer recently after having played Thief for many years and I can tell you that Mirage is ridiculously much more powerful than a Thief is - at the very least. 

 

I don't know enough yet about Mesmer at its core but if you compare Deadeye to Mirage there is no question that the comparison is 100% lopsided toward Mirage - in OW/pve anyway, from my perspective.

OW I would probably agree. Competitive on the other hand no, not at all.

[Salt Mode.3780]

10 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

Man, I'm a newcomer to Mesmer and I don't know. I started playing Mesmer recently after having played Thief for many years and I can tell you that Mirage is ridiculously much more powerful than a Thief is - at the very least. 

 

I don't know enough yet about Mesmer at its core but if you compare Deadeye to Mirage there is no question that the comparison is 100% lopsided toward Mirage - in OW/pve anyway, from my perspective.

Mesmer's issue was never in the PvE scenario, tho there are dissatisfactions towards chrono wells. The problem with mesmer is towards the competitive side which thieves completely dominate over mesmers in that aspect. They have far better disengage and reengage potential than mesmers. 

[Loic.9657]

Mesmer died since CMC become leader of balance team.

And we all know the reasons.

Disgusting and pathetic.

 

And old talent tree which allow people customized the build on their style is so good. This is one of big shiny thing that gw2 had.

But it's gone.

[ventress.4879]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:13 PM, Loic.9657 said:

Mesmer died since CMC become leader of balance team.

And we all know the reasons.

Disgusting and pathetic.

 

And old talent tree which allow people customized the build on their style is so good. This is one of big shiny thing that gw2 had.

But it's gone.

That is only really true for PVP. In PvE Mesmer is great, just did a Raid and most people brought a Mirage or Virtuoso. 

[ascii.1369]

1 hour ago, ventress.4879 said:

That is only really true for PVP. In PvE Mesmer is great, just did a Raid and most people brought a Mirage or Virtuoso. 

True, but still disappointing for the people who play sPvP or WvW. I don’t actually mind Mesmer not being meta since I hate mirror matches in gaming generally. But the state it is in now is more than just off meta, it’s broken.

Also, in PvE it’s mostly Virtuoso that’s good, and that’s arguably not a Mesmer, given the fundamental mechanic of Mesmer (clones) has been removed from it.

Edited March 3, 2023 by ascii.1369

[Moradorin.6217]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:26 AM, apharma.3741 said:

I'm honestly not sure if mesmer is in the worst state it's ever been in now or whether this was just before/after CMCs big patch. 
I'd probably say it was earlier because chrono wasn't good and didn't have distortion, mirage had one dodge and was basically ineffective and Virtuoso was in it's weaker state when launched. Yeah I think EoD launch mesmer was in it's weakest state.
Which speaks volumes about how bad it was and how bad it still is but we have mATs soon, we're going to see all those virtuoso's dominating like some NA players predicted right?

Well I mean Mirage still has one dodge. I would agree that Chrono has distortion now, but I dont notice more ppl playing it rly. I usually see ppl playing virt or another class. That said, I hang out in Mistlok and raid area so maybe its the places I idle and play? 

 

I still do Mesmer for escort towers and some times on mathias but normally fb does reflects on that these days and Mirage isnt really asked for most of the time even on Mathias or TL.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Salt Mode.3780]

People only play Virtuoso because of its incredibly easy rotation in PvE as well as "aesthetics." 

[Moradorin.6217]

11 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

People only play Virtuoso because of its incredibly easy rotation in PvE as well as "aesthetics." 

and also for its easy rotation in spite of its "aesthetics" too oddly. =p

[Gesbo.6420]

12 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

People only play Virtuoso because of its incredibly easy rotation in PvE as well as "aesthetics." 

 

38 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

and also for its easy rotation in spite of its "aesthetics" too oddly. =p

What's wrong with the aesthetic? Gives me that wildstar esper vibe.

[Moradorin.6217]

13 minutes ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

 

What's wrong with the aesthetic? Gives me that wildstar esper vibe.

tbh nothing. I dont mind virt being around. Its not like the giant kinda intrusive mechs. Which I also can tolerate fine tho they, for sure, get in the way of fashion wars during events, raids, strikes, etc. I, personally, dont play Virt in part due to the visible dagger look. I have nothing against it and am happy if others enjoy it. I dont play Virt as yet anyway. That said, I would probably be more likely to try Virt if I could, at least, control IF the daggers are visible or not. I have seen others suggest it. Maybe if its easy to do they can add a way some day. Otherwise, no big really. Im much more interested in seeing Mirage get a consistent number of dodges in all 3 game modes.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

D"Since the 02-14 patch the Mantra of Pain requires casting again making it slightly harder to reach the previous benchmark numbers. However, by also making use of distortion it is possible to reach over 38k dps."

Build included

side note- There are no valid excuses for Anet removing Profession 2nd dodge while Thief Profession are allowed to continually abusing their their mechanics and skills with little to no cost. 

(A Good-Hearted-Truth Teller Thief Profession Player Taking A Stand Against Thief Profession Portal Abuse And Toxicity)

 

--another sad video to watch--

"But i don't need to accept it. I don't have to"

 

To add more insult to Mesmer Profession injury, Anet rewarded Thief Profession with Mesmer Profession portal version of Portal.

-Punishing one with bad behaviors and rewarding the other with bad behaviors...is Favoritism!!!

--For past 10 years, Thief Profession Are allowed to remain the  most Toxic Profession in the game--

--For the past 10 years, Thief Profession Are The Only Profession Who Are Responsible For Driving Out The Population In The Game--

(--Mesmer Profession Are Being Used As Thief Profession Scapegoat--)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[ventress.4879]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

D"Since the 02-14 patch the Mantra of Pain requires casting again making it slightly harder to reach the previous benchmark numbers. However, by also making use of distortion it is possible to reach over 38k dps."

Build included

side note- There are no valid excuses for Anet removing Profession 2nd dodge while Thief Profession are allowed to continually abusing their their mechanics and skills with little to no cost. 

(A Good-Hearted-Truth Teller Thief Profession Player Taking A Stand Against Thief Profession Portal Abuse And Toxicity)

 

--another sad video to watch--

"But i don't need to accept it. I don't have to"

 

To add more insult to Mesmer Profession injury, Anet rewarded Thief Profession with Mesmer Profession portal version of Portal.

-Punishing one with bad behaviors and rewarding the other with bad behaviors...is Favoritism!!!

--For past 10 years, Thief Profession Are allowed to remain the  most Toxic Profession in the game--

--For the past 10 years, Thief Profession Are The Only Profession Who Are Responsible For Driving Out The Population In The Game--

(--Mesmer Profession Are Being Used As Thief Profession Scapegoat--)

I don't think I have ever seen a theif use their portal for anything other than sneaking people into WvW keeps after they have been flipped. Most portal gameplay is from Mesmer. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Burnfall.9573]

29 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

I don't think I have ever seen a theif use their portal for anything other than sneaking people into WvW keeps after they have been flipped. Most portal gameplay is from Mesmer. 

I left out Thief Profession Shadow Step + Shadow Portal for a reason

 

(Thief Profession in its entirely is a an exploit/hack design. Nothing can be done until it is complexly redesigned from the ground up or to be deleted entirely for the health of the game)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[ventress.4879]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I left out Thief Profession Shadow Step + Shadow Portal for a reason

 

(Thief Profession in its entirely is a an exploit/hack design. Nothing can be done until it is complexly redesigned from the ground up or to be deleted entirely for the health of the game)

People make the same claim about Mesmer so be careful what you wish for. Theif could end up in the Mirage situation where everyone wants it to stay nerfed while most Theif players leave the game or change profession due to the nerfs. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

8 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

 

What's wrong with the aesthetic? Gives me that wildstar esper vibe.

What I'm saying is people didn't want to play Mesmer due to having to learn how to utilize clones properly and have always hated clones. Now Virtuoso is essentially a mage caster class rather than true to it's origins of using clones, ofc this will attract more people.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:44 AM, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

D"Since the 02-14 patch the Mantra of Pain requires casting again making it slightly harder to reach the previous benchmark numbers. However, by also making use of distortion it is possible to reach over 38k dps."

Build included

side note- There are no valid excuses for Anet removing Profession 2nd dodge while Thief Profession are allowed to continually abusing their their mechanics and skills with little to no cost. 

(A Good-Hearted-Truth Teller Thief Profession Player Taking A Stand Against Thief Profession Portal Abuse And Toxicity)

 

--another sad video to watch--

"But i don't need to accept it. I don't have to"

 

To add more insult to Mesmer Profession injury, Anet rewarded Thief Profession with Mesmer Profession portal version of Portal.

-Punishing one with bad behaviors and rewarding the other with bad behaviors...is Favoritism!!!

--For past 10 years, Thief Profession Are allowed to remain the  most Toxic Profession in the game--

--For the past 10 years, Thief Profession Are The Only Profession Who Are Responsible For Driving Out The Population In The Game--

(--Mesmer Profession Are Being Used As Thief Profession Scapegoat--)

That thief clip you posted is the most absurd bs i have ever heard.

Does not seem like there was any communication between thief and commander to send in a mes first to get more ppl in and he's not even in a squad and then he's cry about missing out on a tower.
Kill a guard or something to get credit.