Defense event participation and perimeter kills

[daninumbers.4036]

Repairing walls wasting resources was a thing before adding the extra rewards either for the exp, the ridiculous amount needed for achievements or the most common: to get that sweet 10 mins reset on the participation clock especially during downtimes. This has multiplied the people doing it though so I was expecting some big change to happen. Thing is this just creates even more problems.

Putting it short: based on experience you just get participation for defending a structure if you kill someone that actively attacked a guard, siege or wall/gate. The ideal thing would be that you got defense participation by killing any enemy player or siege within the perimeter of the contested structure.

So many times, yesterday too in fact, I've defended especially towers, killed a few but since they weren't the ones using siege or all guards were killed by others I didn't get either objective defender daily nor defense participation. Also this takes away the incentive of repairing since now you don't get any reset from it be it contested or uncontested as they changed last time, just a small amount of exp.

Maybe make it repairing just award bronze and nothing beyond that and bronze just give reset and achievement progression? That'd keep the usual thing while those that wanna farm ranks and mats would have to jump into a fight. Still killing someone in the perimeter should award defense as you've cleared the area from enemies but of course, when it's not contested it wouldn't do anything, just count towards an active defense event in your area.

[Chocofox.9503]

There is also the issue where the defense kill only counts if the player stays put. So if you dps them enough to force them to retreat then finish the player while they try to escape you likely will not get defensive credit because they moved to far away from the objective.

[Gorani.7205]

Perimeter kills have been mysterious since launch not exclusively, but more so with camps. Having to rely on kills after today's patch even more than before and not having solved issues with perimeter kills (outside the "contested ring") is horrible for small scale WvW gaming.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

They should get rid of tower and keep captures in the same way.  No players defending? No credit for the cap. 

 

Anet is all about nerfing defense.   Holding off the zerg as best a couple of us can, but help was late.  No defense for us, but credit to the zerg.   

 

Anet listens to the blob commanders and the blob commanders only.  

 

 

[LSD.4673]

After like 18 months of broken borderland repair-defence participation timer, we finally get it fixed and then...they take it away a month later.

"Only zerg!" -- with love from the WvW team (of two guys).

[Chichimec.9364]

4 hours ago, daninumbers.4036 said:

...based on experience you just get participation for defending a structure if you kill someone that actively attacked a guard, siege or wall/gate. The ideal thing would be that you got defense participation by killing any enemy player or siege within the perimeter of the contested structure.

So many times, yesterday too in fact, I've defended especially towers, killed a few but since they weren't the ones using siege or all guards were killed by others I didn't get either objective defender daily nor defense participation...

This. Very much this. Objective Defender has always seemed erratic to me. Sometimes killing attacking players got this done. Other times it did not. The only reliable way to get Objective Defender was to repair a wall while the defense timer was up. And now that is gone. I think I understand the problem Anet was trying to address - folks just sitting in SMC and repairing a wall every time the timer came up - but as often happens when Anet tries to balance things they went too far in the opposite direction. The OP gave a suggestion that might be worth trying out as an alternative - "The ideal thing would be that you got defense participation by killing any enemy player or siege within the perimeter of the contested structure."

[Erich.1783]

The simplest solution would probably be to extend the range of the participation event, something like 1.5 max cata range from the objective would work.  It would allow for getting credit for attacking the actual siege being used, and allow a large chase zone.

 

[Tiscan.8345]

I wonder if there is anybody on the team at ArenaNet who actually plays WvW. Especially on one of the servers that are not utterly overstacked. Once again they are punishing everybody who is playing a support-build (while i prsonally don't care about this, it still sucks to see ANet make the same mistake over and over again) as apparently the only way to reliably getting any event-participation seems to be killing enemies.  Not to mention that this change makes the Daily WvW Objective Defender really  annoying. IMHO one of the worst changes to WvW lately just because of some people abusing these mechanics.

 

[Solvar.7953]

I wonder if a cool down timer on defense events would have been better.  You get rewards if you repair, but you can't get rewards again for 15 (or whatever) minutes again.  This might be enough to disincentive people repair camping, and people could still repair just to hold the objective (but get no reward), and it would probably help out in letting more people get the reward, as once one person did a repair, they probably would not repair again until their timer expires, given others a chance to repair.

Though in SMC, that might not have been an issue, but might still have reduced the amount of supplies people burned through - if someone had supplies, they would be less likely to use them until their repair cooldown expired.

 

[Sjentra.3409]

I liked the strategic nature of knowing when to follow or not though a broken wall incase you might get cut off via your own team repairing it. On top of that they drained supply throughout the map so trying to hold SMC for a long time was a lot harder since you had to make a choice to either keep SMC, or lose your keep/towers. 

Getting the defense participation was already grossly inconsistent (border line incompetent programming). I could get 5k xp from killing people inside and still only get silver participation.

As it is now; there's no point in ever repairing a structure; it's easier to just let it flip.

[Infusion.7149]

This patch was poorly thought out. Instead of nerfing repairs across the board it should have been a change to Stonemist repairs only or inner repairs counting only since destroying siege with a cannon/mortar/oil still does not seem to count. Defense events are notably finicky, so SMC defense should have been the only change while working on the objective scaling. If a player manages to get out of combat before dying you get zero credit.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Exxcalibur.6203]

Stupid change.  ANet  as usual, 1 step forward, 1 step back, punishing solo players.  

 

You can get 8g in 1 hours PVE event play bouncing around the map, for what takes more than a few hours in Wvw.   Good work, people. 

Zzzzzz

Edited March 15, 2023 by Exxcalibur.6203

[Avengedeath.4671]

Maybe add yak defender/walker to the list of possible daily/weekly achievement choices?

 

  may as well get rid of defender all together.  one person said they killed a player while "defending" hills and did not get any objective defender reward.  

 

no one so far in map or team chat is liking this change.  mostly because of what the first poster said.  

 

i personally never had a problem with people "wasting" supply.  I guess because we never own smc long enough for supply to be wasted and supply in towers/keeps replenishes pretty quickly.  

 

but now i am back to losing participation for repairing walls/gates and clearing siege.  

 

 i will still repair and clear enemy siege but will have to replenish my participation by roaming in red bl where there is plenty to take because no one goes there.  

[Saepio.7980]

Totally stupid, over the top change. None of the blob commanders gaf about D - Just zerging down solo players with their blob, way to go Anet, degrading WvW once again to satisfy the needs of the mindless.

[Lucy.3728]

I don't get my daily wvw objective defender achievement done by repairing a wall and think it is a bug.

 

And read here it isnt. 🤔

 

The wvw dailys are often the reason I go to wvw and often stick to wvw - like 'just doing the dailys' then, 4 hours later.

 

Is it wise to remove motivations to go to wvw?

[daninumbers.4036]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:05 PM, Chocofox.9503 said:

There is also the issue where the defense kill only counts if the player stays put. So if you dps them enough to force them to retreat then finish the player while they try to escape you likely will not get defensive credit because they moved to far away from the objective.

That's a problem indeed, so here the current system could coexist getting participation from killing those that triggered the defense or the siege that hit it and kills within the perimeter.

Another thing could be a similar thing like marked, when you are  near a watchtower. It could trigger a marked not showed to avoid more clutter on screen and start a 30 seconds countdown once they are outside of the area. That'd give you a window to kill the invader and still count (just if the defense timer is still up).

On 3/14/2023 at 6:28 PM, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

They should get rid of tower and keep captures in the same way.  No players defending? No credit for the cap. 

Actually most of the caps I get are silver if there is no fight involved. Simply killing a few guards, the lord and standing in the circle won't be enough for gold most times with the new system when even being late and hopping inside the circle would grant gold before. 

 

And all of these changes are weird. They lower the amount of supplies that smc, keeps and idk if anything else can hold so defenses don't last that long repairing. Now repairing is wrong. It seems they've never had someone in the servers they've played, if they play wvw, that builds dozens of catas or acs in random spots just to drain all supplies. Nothing can be done against that and it happens. So why suddenly this is an issue about supplies? And since still repairing grants exp I see people that do it even when there is no defense. I guess they'll remove that next, so just those that care about playing repair.