The FOURTH traitline

[Avatar.3568]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:01 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Hell no. This kills choice and diversity. The whole idea about GW2 combat is that you have to make choices, and not just run around  with everything on by default.
What needs to happen is honest reworking of these "mandatory" trailines that hold professions hostage.

 

The diversity is getting restricted by having the mandatory traitline. 

In PvP you are forced right now to Always Play the save build, this endsup in having a Very forced Meta.

For example Warrior, you are forced to Pick disciplin, i tried it to Not use it, but its straight Up Impossible.

If you want to Play Core Warrior you Always Lack the DMG, you can only get to spb DMG when you are Picking strenght and arms, but than you are a weak noodle.

If you Pick Defense strenght, you are doing the Same DMG as pure Defense spb does, but you still don't have fullcounter, dagger or spb DMG buff (idk how its called in english)

If you Run strenght spb you get dmg to punish enemys for mistakes but are SOOOOO easy to kill 

You are forced to Play Defense spb or Defense condi Berserker, everything Else ist Trash

With the 4th traitline you could Play:

Disciplin Defense strenght Arms

Disciplin Defense strenght tactics

Disciplin strength Arma tactics

Disciplin spb Defense strength

Disciplin spb strength tactics

Disciplin spb Defense tactics

Disciplin spb Defense Arms

Disciplin Berserker Defense strenght

Etc.... These would get all viable choices because you get the DMG to kill people while also having survivablity to Not die to the first Thief that Sees you

This would Work With Ranger the Same, it would probably Work With any class, inpvp you are forced to play so high DMG that you oneshot or playing every bot of sustain that you are not randomly die to some Support guard F1.

If you want to Bring Up Something in between you are Hardcore useless, you don't kill your enemys neither can you survive anything.

Nadescrappee Shows that you Need broken DMG combined with perma Superspeed to be agressiv, fresh air cata showed that you Need broken dmg With perma Superspeed and blinds to be competetiv

This is all stuff that is absolutely obnoxious to Play against, while IT Kills any build Diversity

That was a way to big of Wall of Text 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Avatar.3568

[DieYoung.8126]

@cmcary.4762 make it happen

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, DieYoung.8126 said:

@cmcary.4762 make it happen

 

You mean @Cal Cohen.2358 ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

The diversity is getting restricted by having the mandatory traitline. 

In PvP you are forced right now to Always Play the save build, this endsup in having a Very forced Meta.

For example Warrior, you are forced to Pick disciplin, i tried it to Not use it, but its straight Up Impossible.

If you want to Play Core Warrior you Always Lack the DMG, you can only get to spb DMG when you are Picking strenght and arms, but than you are a weak noodle.

If you Pick Defense strenght, you are doing the Same DMG as pure Defense spb does, but you still don't have fullcounter, dagger or spb DMG buff (idk how its called in english)

If you Run strenght spb you get dmg to punish enemys for mistakes but are SOOOOO easy to kill 

You are forced to Play Defense spb or Defense condi Berserker, everything Else ist Trash

With the 4th traitline you could Play:

Disciplin Defense strenght Arms

Disciplin Defense strenght tactics

Disciplin strength Arma tactics

Disciplin spb Defense strength

Disciplin spb strength tactics

Disciplin spb Defense tactics

Disciplin spb Defense Arms

Disciplin Berserker Defense strenght

Etc.... These would get all viable choices because you get the DMG to kill people while also having survivablity to Not die to the first Thief that Sees you

This would Work With Ranger the Same, it would probably Work With any class, inpvp you are forced to play so high DMG that you oneshot or playing every bot of sustain that you are not randomly die to some Support guard F1.

If you want to Bring Up Something in between you are Hardcore useless, you don't kill your enemys neither can you survive anything.

Nadescrappee Shows that you Need broken DMG combined with perma Superspeed to be agressiv, fresh air cata showed that you Need broken dmg With perma Superspeed and blinds to be competetiv

This is all stuff that is absolutely obnoxious to Play against, while IT Kills any build Diversity

That was a way to big of Wall of Text 

Bingo.

This is why I miss the old trait system. There was so much more diversity to it. Grant it, with elite specs they would have had to make the core mechanic trait line something you swap out for the new trait line.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Absolutely not! The powercreep would be absurd.

On 4/4/2023 at 7:18 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Bingo.

This is why I miss the old trait system. There was so much more diversity to it. Grant it, with elite specs they would have had to make the core mechanic trait line something you swap out for the new trait line.

Yup! I remember it. You could only specialize into two trees. With the leftover points, you could put them into whatever trees you wanted. There was actual tradeoffs back then.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

26 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Absolutely not! The powercreep would be absurd.

Yup! I remember it. You could only specialize into two trees. With the leftover points, you could put them into whatever trees you wanted. There was actual tradeoffs back then.

I do miss the 30/10/30/0/10 days

Edited April 7, 2023 by MarzAttakz.9608

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Absolutely not! The powercreep would be absurd.

Yup! I remember it. You could only specialize into two trees. With the leftover points, you could put them into whatever trees you wanted. There was actual tradeoffs back then.

I mean you could forgo the GM tiers and split into multiple lines. There was so much more that you could do back then...

[Misterbrady.2167]

Instead of a fourth trait line, they could add a row of traits to encourage build diversity.

[voltaicbore.8012]

Being an on-and-off Black Desert player made me think about this concept as well. The devs for that game can make changes to classes that are universal to every single player of that class, which has its advantages. Theoretically, if Anet knows every single class always has access to its entire kit, it can tweak, buff, or nerf things as needed knowing that every single "build" for that class will be impacted. 

On the other hand, balance in BDO is something of a joke (like in many other games, tbh), and meaningful choice + build diversity is (for me at least) a big reason why I still have fun playing GW2. If I had to choose, I'd elect to keep the status quo.

This isn't to say I don't think OP's idea is cool. As a ranger, I'd LOVE to just be able to take Wilderness Survival without losing an offensive traitline. Imagining having one's cake and eating it too is always nice.

Edited April 8, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[The Boz.2038]

Holy crap, no, lol.

And OP also got, like, half the traits wrong.

[Pooh.6897]

to be honest, I'd love to return to the old system. I dont think it'll happen, but it sounds a lot more interesting. As for the 4th tradeline idea: I just wish that choosing an espec wasnt tied to having a tradeline equipped. However, the current model keeps everything balanced, because it forces you to pick a weakness. If you would be allowed to go for an offensive traitline, a defensive traitline and then also a traitline that makes your entire class better, and on top of that choose an elitespec, yeah things would become busted very fast. Which is actually why I think the previous system was probably better but oh well, cant have everything. They could also rework the system so that you need to invest points in certain traitlines, and then you can use those points within these traitlines however you wish. It'd be a combination of the old and current system. so, for example, you invest 30 points in blood magic, then within blood magic you can invest in three separate traitlines. So if you want blood bank, you need to invest a lot of points in the lifestealing traitline to get to the blood bank trait, but you could also invest them evenly across all traitlines within blood magic and just get all the minor/master traits. and you could even distribute your total amount of points in more interesting ways. if you want to be a very effective lifetealing healer, just invest most of your points in blood magic. if you want to become an absolute unit of a tank, just invest all of your points in death magic, and if you want to become a jack-of-all-trades, just distribute your points more evenly across all traitlines.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Darth Pooh.5638

[Obtena.7952]

Should we also start a 'worst ideas' section and put this as the first thread?

 

'Go-to' traitlines are not a reason to expand bandwidth for trait choices ... but if you look at the history of the game, they ARE a reason for Anet to typically view those traits as 'too favourable' and targetted as nerfs. 

Frankly, I liked the old system, as far as it's mix and matching was concerned. If we really want more flex in trait choices, we should think about getting points to buy traits, but the traits have weighted costs according to their classification (e.g, 1 point for minor, 2 for adept, 3 for master, 4 for GM) or something like that. 

Doubt that would happen ... but definitely no way to a 4th traitline access. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

All those ideas sounds good , fourth traitline or back to the old traitline system , but we must be realistic , balancing the game actually , with all the e-specs , is already hard enough for anet i think.

So adding one of those two option , while i think everybody would be happy with a fourth traitline , the power creep will be even more insane that it is already.

Also remember that each patchnote involving balance was for the most part haunted by a swarm of bugs (wink : ele infinite sunspot every 0,015 sec) so if such a patch come out , i am already laughing and imagining all the myriad of ridiculous bugs or exploit it will make , like we could mix e-specs , a willbenbrand could be amazing !

[Razi.6031]

I can already see all the complaints in WvW if I take my shadow arts daredevil and also add power or crit trait line to it.. that would be massively OP.. 

Or core sword/dagger but now I also add the crit trailine to it....

 

The whole point of the system is that there needs to be a give and take.

 

What I think the OP is mostly getting at is more that some traits need to become baseline with the class like the increased initiative trait on trickery line.