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Ok, so Thief.....Deadeye or Spectre...or DD? (pve, open world stuffs mostly)


Joxer.6024

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So, have been wanting to get into a Thief and finally decided to give it a go. Now the big question....for like open world stuffs and maybe raids again at some point, which plays the "best"

Yea, thats subjective cuz everyone's best is very different but just from the mass majority of you (or a few) what the strongest of the two? now i know Deadeye is all the rage and kicking butt dps-wise in raids but its pretty much single target, right? And while Spectre is for the most part you do have the wells that can cleave? 

I just dont see many Spectres around and on wingman they are like way down on lists. Sure, ther are those few that shine but thats with any class really. And I did give Daredevil a go waaaay back but just wasn't a fan.

Or am i shooting myself in the foot thinking either build has a spot for open...as i just dont raid anymore (NA is so dead!)

Cheers!  😉

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I don't know what your funds and free time are but I would build a power and a condi set so you can have a few templates to switch around. Your kind of going in for different things taking either, so I don't know what's strongest overall. 

I flip through different builds for different terrain even, stuff like Death's Retreat can scale fences, small walls, and some large rocks that other weapon skills can't, while Infiltrators Shot can climb topography and levels with more accuracy and reach. 

I mostly play WvW with some open world and story stuff but power DE and condi Specter are my two main templates I switch between and I switch back and forth often on a map. I also take mostly the standard raid builds with some adjustments. Those are what most other people would be working with normally anyway and there's enough mobility and mob to mob kill rate in open stuff. Then I have another template for specialized stuff.

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2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I don't know what your funds and free time are but I would build a power and a condi set so you can have a few templates to switch around. Your kind of going in for different things taking either, so I don't know what's strongest overall. 

I flip through different builds for different terrain even, stuff like Death's Retreat can scale fences, small walls, and some large rocks that other weapon skills can't, while Infiltrators Shot can climb topography and levels with more accuracy and reach. 

I mostly play WvW with some open world and story stuff but power DE and condi Specter are my two main templates I switch between and I switch back and forth often on a map. I also take mostly the standard raid builds with some adjustments. Those are what most other people would be working with normally anyway and there's enough mobility and mob to mob kill rate in open stuff. Then I have another template for specialized stuff.

yea, kind of the direction I am going as I am unlocking both. Deadeye freaked me a bit thinking it was super hard but saw a p\p build that looked really fun, so may go with that. 

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Thief is a bit... compicated.  What is good in the overworld and what is good in raids are completely different.  For general overworld use, it is hard to beat Staff Daredevil, for two big reasons:  The high cleaving damage and the access to additional dodges.  While power daredevil doesn't have the highest benchmarks, those two advantages make it great at just about anything.  In comparison, the Deadeye's damage is single target (rifle), situational (dagger/dagger) or just straight up auto attacking (sword/x).  Daredevil clears entire groups of enemies with bounding dodge, a few weakening charges or vaults.  Daredevil is pretty solid for fractals and dungeons, too.

Then comes the raids and high end strikes.  There, Daredevil struggles significantly for one big reason:  forced movement.  You have to move with bounding dodge, Weakening Charge moves you, and Death Blossom moves you for condi variants.  Raids are packed with claustrophobic situations where miss-stepping leads to high damage, instant death, and even worse instant failure against certain bosses.  It's a lot of risk for not a lot of payoff.  

The Deadeye has its own problems in raids.  Whereas Daredevil has issues with forced movement, Deadeye has the exact opposite problem in being nearly stationary.  A lot of bosses have mechanics that will require you to move out of the way, forcing the Deadeye to doge out of the way or un-kneel and move away.  This will eat up a lot of the damage and performance of the spec, or get you killed.  Awhile ago I made a post about the woes that thief faces in raids, but that was before the release of specter.  Depending on the encounter I'd have to switch between 4 different builds.

Specter is going to be the better option when raiding for most bosses.  It has minor boon support, it doesn't have forced movement on scepter + dagger, and it also bolsters the team with supplementary healing/barrier.  You'll see damage drop from bosses that don't sit still, but the DPS is still pretty solid.  As for the open world, Specter's ramp-up makes it pretty slow to kill most mobs, and Specter has limited cleave option when dealing with groups of enemies.  

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ok, cheers. so it looks like maybe Deadeye for some open, saw metas p\p build, looks solid. Then Spectre for raids, if i so choose to get back into them. I did play DD awhile back but felt it was a tad squishy in open stuffs, has that changed? Thanks again!!

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But those combat protocols are only for EoD maps uses. I wish there is a portable version.

I play power DD and I mixed Marauder with Berserker gears for better survival. I used to have no problem at all until ANet nerfed Invigorating Precision by liked 85%!!! What the hell ANet?! Do you guys always have to be so evil when it comes to nerfing?? 😠

Edited by Min Min.9368
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1 hour ago, Min Min.9368 said:

But those combat protocols are only for EoD maps uses. I wish there is a portable version.

I play power DD and I mixed Marauder with Berserker gears for better survival. I used to have no problem at all until ANet nerfed Invigorating Precision by liked 85%!!! What the hell ANet?! Do you guys always have to be so evil when it comes to nerfing?? 😠

yea I was thinking of doing the same, bumping the health and such up a bit but trying to not lose to much dps potential.

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On 4/6/2023 at 7:51 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Thief is a bit... compicated.  What is good in the overworld and what is good in raids are completely different.  For general overworld use, it is hard to beat Staff Daredevil, for two big reasons:  The high cleaving damage and the access to additional dodges.  While power daredevil doesn't have the highest benchmarks, those two advantages make it great at just about anything.  In comparison, the Deadeye's damage is single target (rifle), situational (dagger/dagger) or just straight up auto attacking (sword/x).  Daredevil clears entire groups of enemies with bounding dodge, a few weakening charges or vaults.  Daredevil is pretty solid for fractals and dungeons, too.

Then comes the raids and high end strikes.  There, Daredevil struggles significantly for one big reason:  forced movement.  You have to move with bounding dodge, Weakening Charge moves you, and Death Blossom moves you for condi variants.  Raids are packed with claustrophobic situations where miss-stepping leads to high damage, instant death, and even worse instant failure against certain bosses.  It's a lot of risk for not a lot of payoff.  

The Deadeye has its own problems in raids.  Whereas Daredevil has issues with forced movement, Deadeye has the exact opposite problem in being nearly stationary.  A lot of bosses have mechanics that will require you to move out of the way, forcing the Deadeye to doge out of the way or un-kneel and move away.  This will eat up a lot of the damage and performance of the spec, or get you killed.  Awhile ago I made a post about the woes that thief faces in raids, but that was before the release of specter.  Depending on the encounter I'd have to switch between 4 different builds.

Specter is going to be the better option when raiding for most bosses.  It has minor boon support, it doesn't have forced movement on scepter + dagger, and it also bolsters the team with supplementary healing/barrier.  You'll see damage drop from bosses that don't sit still, but the DPS is still pretty solid.  As for the open world, Specter's ramp-up makes it pretty slow to kill most mobs, and Specter has limited cleave option when dealing with groups of enemies.  

 

Spectre will not work on certain bosses that clearly call for power DPS. Best is to unlock spectre plus one other.

 

Non-spectre has niche roles like stealing on certain bosses, able to provide all the necessary boons. 

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11 hours ago, Min Min.9368 said:

But those combat protocols are only for EoD maps uses. I wish there is a portable version.

Unless it's changed, it's technically possible to build up about 2 hours of duration and then go to another map, as long as you don't pass through a map that actively clears them.

No, I typically don't bother either.

To the OP - of the choices given, I'd probably prioritise deadeye. For open world, you can genuinely get any spec to work, but Daredevil is probably the best at clearing weak mobs and condi deadeye the best at soloing strong mobs (which, if hero point soloing is a consideration, is a point to deadeye first, particularly since PoF and EoD specs are faster to get started than HoT specs). When moving to raids, spectre seems to generally be the best for general usage as either condi dps or condi alacdps - deadeye's high theoretical dps is reportedly quite hard to pull off in practice. However, deadeyes can be useful for certain roles on Qadim.

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I made a reply to a post like this a while back, but the TL DR is that Deadeye can be very effective in open world, like, perma 25 might and swiftness good. Gonna post my reply from before verbatim below:

 

Deadeye for general open world with lots of mobs, but DD works too

TL:DR: Here is a link to my own Deadeye open world build, it is best suited for lots of mobs rather then bosses, perma quick uptime depending on the amount of mobs.

Why Deadeye for open world? Be Quick or Be Killed is why, grants you quickness for 4 seconds when you steal, AND +200 extra power while under quickness. If you're in open world killing and stealing from lots of mobs, you're gonna have perma quickness uptime with no concentration, and 25 might, and fury, and vigor, and swiftness, and have a insta recharging daze on kill, you'll also gain initiative on steal too, steal has 1500 range on Deadeye too btw, oh and this is without allies too btw, but you'll be able to share everything but the quickness with them too cause lol.

How you ask? Purely with Deadeyes traits on full 'zerker, no sigils or runes required. Here is a link to my build that lets you accomplish this. This build relies on trickery and mostly camps rifle, you're looking for perma boons rather then building up and spending malice, I also bring a Shortbow for when rifle doesnt cut it for tagging.

I take deadly arts over the meta critical strikes for Mug, Mug gives you loads of HP if you're able to mark lots of mobs, and it does decent damage too, around 4k ish on the setup listed, kept me alive in HoT maps easily, but if you wanna stick with Deadly Arts you might be able to get away with Dagger Training for a little bit more power at the cost of some sustain. I could see this build working with critical strikes over deadly arts, but you still manage insane damage in dense packs of mobs with deadly arts,

Trickery is used to augment Deadeyes Mark, Bottom - Top - Middle like a lot of power Trickery builds. Mark recharges when your marked target dies and applies the boons on initial steal, so if you're in a meta constantly marking mobs you'll have perma steal boons and quick, plus a daze and more initiative, the more initiative from steal lets you spam weapon skills cause you can potetially never run out of initiative.

In Deadeye I take Burst of Shadows over the usual Malicious Intent, mobs are gonna die stupid quick with this build so a lot of times you won't be able to spend the malice on stealth attacks, Silent Scope gives you 100% crit chance thanks to it and perma fury, and Be Quick or Be Killed gives you and you only perma quickness in dense packs of mobs.

Now I'm embellishing this build a lot, and while it works very, very bloody well in packs of mobs in open world, it's not as great in places where's there's not many mobs, think bosses, bounties, etc, you won't have perma boons cause you won't be able to constantly mark targets, just the one boss, and you'll usually be able to have perma fury and might from allies anyway. I usually swap off to Malicious Intent and Maleficent Seven as those traits are better suited for bosses, so if you do decide to give this build a try pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease keep this in mind when facing bosses.

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Depending of what's your definition of strong.

Both rifle and dagger deadeyes are top DPS actually (hope dont nerft it too soon).

If you wanna deal to multiple targets switch to daredevil. The condi is perma evasion and it's hard to die, and the power staff is easy low intensity to play, just spamming 2.

Specter has lower damage and can be boring, but is good for soloing champs specially if you use carrion or ritualist stats, very tanky and relaxed play.

 

If you want to have a blast play double pistol deadaye.

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1 hour ago, SamuelW.2685 said:

I made a reply to a post like this a while back, but the TL DR is that Deadeye can be very effective in open world, like, perma 25 might and swiftness good. Gonna post my reply from before verbatim below:

 

Deadeye for general open world with lots of mobs, but DD works too

TL:DR: Here is a link to my own Deadeye open world build, it is best suited for lots of mobs rather then bosses, perma quick uptime depending on the amount of mobs.

Why Deadeye for open world? Be Quick or Be Killed is why, grants you quickness for 4 seconds when you steal, AND +200 extra power while under quickness. If you're in open world killing and stealing from lots of mobs, you're gonna have perma quickness uptime with no concentration, and 25 might, and fury, and vigor, and swiftness, and have a insta recharging daze on kill, you'll also gain initiative on steal too, steal has 1500 range on Deadeye too btw, oh and this is without allies too btw, but you'll be able to share everything but the quickness with them too cause lol.

How you ask? Purely with Deadeyes traits on full 'zerker, no sigils or runes required. Here is a link to my build that lets you accomplish this. This build relies on trickery and mostly camps rifle, you're looking for perma boons rather then building up and spending malice, I also bring a Shortbow for when rifle doesnt cut it for tagging.

I take deadly arts over the meta critical strikes for Mug, Mug gives you loads of HP if you're able to mark lots of mobs, and it does decent damage too, around 4k ish on the setup listed, kept me alive in HoT maps easily, but if you wanna stick with Deadly Arts you might be able to get away with Dagger Training for a little bit more power at the cost of some sustain. I could see this build working with critical strikes over deadly arts, but you still manage insane damage in dense packs of mobs with deadly arts,

Trickery is used to augment Deadeyes Mark, Bottom - Top - Middle like a lot of power Trickery builds. Mark recharges when your marked target dies and applies the boons on initial steal, so if you're in a meta constantly marking mobs you'll have perma steal boons and quick, plus a daze and more initiative, the more initiative from steal lets you spam weapon skills cause you can potetially never run out of initiative.

In Deadeye I take Burst of Shadows over the usual Malicious Intent, mobs are gonna die stupid quick with this build so a lot of times you won't be able to spend the malice on stealth attacks, Silent Scope gives you 100% crit chance thanks to it and perma fury, and Be Quick or Be Killed gives you and you only perma quickness in dense packs of mobs.

Now I'm embellishing this build a lot, and while it works very, very bloody well in packs of mobs in open world, it's not as great in places where's there's not many mobs, think bosses, bounties, etc, you won't have perma boons cause you won't be able to constantly mark targets, just the one boss, and you'll usually be able to have perma fury and might from allies anyway. I usually swap off to Malicious Intent and Maleficent Seven as those traits are better suited for bosses, so if you do decide to give this build a try pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease keep this in mind when facing bosses.

Another variant of this general concept is to run pistols instead of rifle, and then use Payback instead of Silent Scope. This setup allows you to employ utility skills that might normally be unattractive due to long recharge - for instance, if you're killing things fast enough, you might be able to maintain high uptime of Thieves Guild or the active of Assassin's Signet. This variant is even more reliant on keeping that killstreak going, though.

For unlocking purposes, it also helps that deadeye is a PoF profession, and therefore IIRC you can unlock the middle row of traits with relatively few hero points. HoT elite specs have a different order of unlocks that makes it take more hero points before you get a complete build.

Broadly speaking, I think Daredevil is still better at dealing with open world trash, and takes less modification to revert to something that is at least moderately effective against tough single foes, but there is a big difference between 'the absolute best the profession has to offer' and 'ineffective at the job'. Deadeye absolutely can do the job, you're just likely to end up switching between a couple of specialised builds rather than having one build that does everything.

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3 hours ago, SamuelW.2685 said:

I made a reply to a post like this a while back, but the TL DR is that Deadeye can be very effective in open world, like, perma 25 might and swiftness good. Gonna post my reply from before verbatim below:

 

Deadeye for general open world with lots of mobs, but DD works too

TL:DR: Here is a link to my own Deadeye open world build, it is best suited for lots of mobs rather then bosses, perma quick uptime depending on the amount of mobs.

Why Deadeye for open world? Be Quick or Be Killed is why, grants you quickness for 4 seconds when you steal, AND +200 extra power while under quickness. If you're in open world killing and stealing from lots of mobs, you're gonna have perma quickness uptime with no concentration, and 25 might, and fury, and vigor, and swiftness, and have a insta recharging daze on kill, you'll also gain initiative on steal too, steal has 1500 range on Deadeye too btw, oh and this is without allies too btw, but you'll be able to share everything but the quickness with them too cause lol.

How you ask? Purely with Deadeyes traits on full 'zerker, no sigils or runes required. Here is a link to my build that lets you accomplish this. This build relies on trickery and mostly camps rifle, you're looking for perma boons rather then building up and spending malice, I also bring a Shortbow for when rifle doesnt cut it for tagging.

I take deadly arts over the meta critical strikes for Mug, Mug gives you loads of HP if you're able to mark lots of mobs, and it does decent damage too, around 4k ish on the setup listed, kept me alive in HoT maps easily, but if you wanna stick with Deadly Arts you might be able to get away with Dagger Training for a little bit more power at the cost of some sustain. I could see this build working with critical strikes over deadly arts, but you still manage insane damage in dense packs of mobs with deadly arts,

Trickery is used to augment Deadeyes Mark, Bottom - Top - Middle like a lot of power Trickery builds. Mark recharges when your marked target dies and applies the boons on initial steal, so if you're in a meta constantly marking mobs you'll have perma steal boons and quick, plus a daze and more initiative, the more initiative from steal lets you spam weapon skills cause you can potetially never run out of initiative.

In Deadeye I take Burst of Shadows over the usual Malicious Intent, mobs are gonna die stupid quick with this build so a lot of times you won't be able to spend the malice on stealth attacks, Silent Scope gives you 100% crit chance thanks to it and perma fury, and Be Quick or Be Killed gives you and you only perma quickness in dense packs of mobs.

Now I'm embellishing this build a lot, and while it works very, very bloody well in packs of mobs in open world, it's not as great in places where's there's not many mobs, think bosses, bounties, etc, you won't have perma boons cause you won't be able to constantly mark targets, just the one boss, and you'll usually be able to have perma fury and might from allies anyway. I usually swap off to Malicious Intent and Maleficent Seven as those traits are better suited for bosses, so if you do decide to give this build a try pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease keep this in mind when facing bosses.

you dont struggle with only 14k health? always seems to worry me with low HP but then again if they die fast....

Thanks for the build, I will give it a go!!  😉

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58 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The build has high stealth uptime, is primarily ranged, and a fair amount of resustain. As long as you don't get spiked, it should work. You could use Marauder's if you're concerned, though - the DPS loss through running Marauders is supposed to be fairly low.

yea, thought of that, or like with Hizen's build using cele but i will see how it goes. im a teef, not a tank, Im supposed to be stealthy and such...lol  😉

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  • Joxer.6024 changed the title to Ok, so Thief.....Deadeye or Spectre...or DD? (pve, open world stuffs mostly)

For what it's worth, I have had a staff daredevil for a while now (was mainly used as an alt chest opener) and levelled up the deadeye spec yesterday using the rifle it gives you since I wanted to get the ascended rifle that is tied to an achievement with that. I was expecting rifle deadeye to be ho-hum in terms of open world since I gathered it was mainly single target but holy cow, it's great! I was rolling through enemies with the only exception being if you sort of fall into a mob and get swarmed and can't really set things up but even there, it can manage. If you are able to approach a mob and be able to easily set up marking and kneeling then you'll melt things. I took part in a couple events with mobs and did fine in those. I only have a few hours of play on it but my initial impression is I'll be back to using my thief more and that this is better than staff daredevil as it does more damage. My main issue with daredevil is you have to jump around way too much for better damage and that isn't my type of preferred play style, and I also like being ranged more than melee, unless it is reaper where I am fine with melee. I play with a controller so it's possible this is better with mouse and keyboard where you can easily turn the camera at a much faster speed. My time with deadeye was all in the path of fire maps because of that glintlock achievement and hydras were laughable since you just mark it when you are in range, and go to town while kneeling. It won't get to you before it dies and if it throws out its aoe attack then just move before it lands.

The gear I used was marauders since I had it on for my daredevil and a berserker exotic rifle. Was also using my tier 8 power core for the jade bot so that added a good bit of extra health. Armour exotic and trinkets ascended. Thing is, I didn't get hit much other than when I tried to solo the bounty you need for the glintlock achievement and that didn't go over too well with many deaths and a failure but I'm also an average player so maybe in skilled hands that could have been done solo. When I completed that bounty with a few others, I was fine. Same with a champ in an event I took part in where I barely got touched so I probably don't "need" marauders yet I'll just keep that armour as is and maybe tweak my trinkets a bit. Oh, and I didn't even have a sigil on my rifle for most of the time and then I only threw on sigil of force on it after a bit and left the other sigil slot blank. Haven't tried it out with the ascended rifle yet (which has two sigils) but plan to do that today. Also spent a little bit of time in bitterfrost after I got the glintlock stuff in the dessert and deadeye was rolling through the trash there and handled the champs just fine.

So yeah, I can recommend deadeye based on my initial few hours. I'll maybe look into trying daggers and I might also try out pistol/pistol. It's possible I will lose interest like I mainly did with daredevil (really enjoyed it when I first got it levelled up) but I think this one will stick and will get a good amount of playtime for me. 

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On 4/7/2023 at 12:16 AM, Min Min.9368 said:

But those combat protocols are only for EoD maps uses. I wish there is a portable version.

 

They will cary into some other maps, at least bitterfrost frontier being one. I went there yesterday with some built up from being in EoD areas and they carried over. I wonder if there is a list somewhere that lists which maps where they will cary over.

 

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On 4/8/2023 at 8:36 PM, Joxer.6024 said:

yea, thought of that, or like with Hizen's build using cele but i will see how it goes. im a teef, not a tank, Im supposed to be stealthy and such...lol  😉

Cele deadeye can be very strong with pistol dagger and actually utilizes constant stealth for high sustain (lord hizen's build essentially). I've been playing it a bit recently. You have to make sure you hit your combo correctly (i.e. only stealth at full malice) but the survivability of this build is really high and it can sustain decent dps. It can easily solo most open world stuff if played properly. With that said, the burst is really weak compared to any power build, so its not nearly as effective at clearing normal mobs.

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14 hours ago, loregnum.3619 said:

For what it's worth, I have had a staff daredevil for a while now (was mainly used as an alt chest opener) and levelled up the deadeye spec yesterday using the rifle it gives you since I wanted to get the ascended rifle that is tied to an achievement with that. I was expecting rifle deadeye to be ho-hum in terms of open world since I gathered it was mainly single target but holy cow, it's great! I was rolling through enemies with the only exception being if you sort of fall into a mob and get swarmed and can't really set things up but even there, it can manage. If you are able to approach a mob and be able to easily set up marking and kneeling then you'll melt things. I took part in a couple events with mobs and did fine in those. I only have a few hours of play on it but my initial impression is I'll be back to using my thief more and that this is better than staff daredevil as it does more damage. My main issue with daredevil is you have to jump around way too much for better damage and that isn't my type of preferred play style, and I also like being ranged more than melee, unless it is reaper where I am fine with melee. I play with a controller so it's possible this is better with mouse and keyboard where you can easily turn the camera at a much faster speed. My time with deadeye was all in the path of fire maps because of that glintlock achievement and hydras were laughable since you just mark it when you are in range, and go to town while kneeling. It won't get to you before it dies and if it throws out its aoe attack then just move before it lands.

The gear I used was marauders since I had it on for my daredevil and a berserker exotic rifle. Was also using my tier 8 power core for the jade bot so that added a good bit of extra health. Armour exotic and trinkets ascended. Thing is, I didn't get hit much other than when I tried to solo the bounty you need for the glintlock achievement and that didn't go over too well with many deaths and a failure but I'm also an average player so maybe in skilled hands that could have been done solo. When I completed that bounty with a few others, I was fine. Same with a champ in an event I took part in where I barely got touched so I probably don't "need" marauders yet I'll just keep that armour as is and maybe tweak my trinkets a bit. Oh, and I didn't even have a sigil on my rifle for most of the time and then I only threw on sigil of force on it after a bit and left the other sigil slot blank. Haven't tried it out with the ascended rifle yet (which has two sigils) but plan to do that today. Also spent a little bit of time in bitterfrost after I got the glintlock stuff in the dessert and deadeye was rolling through the trash there and handled the champs just fine.

So yeah, I can recommend deadeye based on my initial few hours. I'll maybe look into trying daggers and I might also try out pistol/pistol. It's possible I will lose interest like I mainly did with daredevil (really enjoyed it when I first got it levelled up) but I think this one will stick and will get a good amount of playtime for me. 

Cheers for that!  ALL great info and I will take it on board. From what you said and the post below I may have to give DE another look.  😉

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5 hours ago, Serp.3264 said:

Cele deadeye can be very strong with pistol dagger and actually utilizes constant stealth for high sustain (lord hizen's build essentially). I've been playing it a bit recently. You have to make sure you hit your combo correctly (i.e. only stealth at full malice) but the survivability of this build is really high and it can sustain decent dps. It can easily solo most open world stuff if played properly. With that said, the burst is really weak compared to any power build, so its not nearly as effective at clearing normal mobs.

Thanks!!! Got me thinking now!!  😉

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On 4/4/2023 at 9:38 AM, Joxer.6024 said:

So, have been wanting to get into a Thief and finally decided to give it a go. Now the big question....for like open world stuffs and maybe raids again at some point, which plays the "best"

Yea, thats subjective cuz everyone's best is very different but just from the mass majority of you (or a few) what the strongest of the two? now i know Deadeye is all the rage and kicking butt dps-wise in raids but its pretty much single target, right? And while Spectre is for the most part you do have the wells that can cleave? 

I just dont see many Spectres around and on wingman they are like way down on lists. Sure, ther are those few that shine but thats with any class really. And I did give Daredevil a go waaaay back but just wasn't a fan.

Or am i shooting myself in the foot thinking either build has a spot for open...as i just dont raid anymore (NA is so dead!)

Cheers!  😉

EcK takes everyone thiefwise as a heads up for endgame. Generally 1 thief can play multiple roles when it comes to it and gear being mostly flexible on the other thief elite specs (except you dont zerker a specter as often). Specter cleaves yes but its not required to as the wells are mostly support in late endgame for alacrity. Given you run a minstrels or harriers set the on-shadowstep skills like the wells can heal as well as provide alacrity, which usually you can find a spot for if you can keep alacrity alone up permanently (requires well spam). plus with additional shadowsteps you heal more in an aoe, just not as much as youd think, its still helpful.

DD and DE have roles they can choose and they are mostly pdps or cdps at times regarding what works in the meta compositions.

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Specter is great for condi, Deadeye is good for power if you want to play open world
Specter is basically just a better version of shadow arts, so it fits great on any trailblazer/carrion d/d & shortbow build

Power deadeye with pack runes and quickness sigils has basically all boons it needs at 100% uptime in full berserker, but you still need to dodge and use your rifle 4 from time to time, but it also works great

It's up to choice really. For raids probably deadeye just works better

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