Celestial Gear needs to go, these builds are unfun and boring to fight against as well as to play.

[Xenesis.6389]

Actually they shouldn't delete celestial, they should force everyone to only run celestial in wvw.

🤭🤔🍿

 

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

🙏

Now what about Ele, Engi, Mesmer, and Necro?

 

Mesmer Profession and Elemental Profession does not have an identity. Their identity are left behind in Guild Wars 

 

Mesmer Profession

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

 

Elementalist Profession

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elementalist

 

As for The Engineer Profession; it is all about war, machinery, gadgets, explosives, destruction and burning everything everywhere. They strong warriors and use anything  to make weapons to help them in battle.

 

Engineer Profession Is -The Jack of all trade Profession-

 

 

 

If you were to ask me, what Profession is the best design Profession in the game (with more improvements and returning Flame Thrower to them)?  

 

It Is The Engineer!!

 

side note-

Engineer Profession Flame Thrower Weapon Is Part Of Its Identity!!

 

Give It back to the Engineer Profession!!

Edited April 10, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Barrier is capped at half health, so you can't have more. Not that it matters, if that zerg turned on you you'd be dead within a second either way. You are just describing a situation where you are getting hard carried by your zerg and your build doesn't matter at all, which further supports that don't have much knowledge about balance, especially at small scale.

I will leave the thin attempts and bad guesses aside. So you run 100% cele on all your builds? Do you play all classes & elites or just some?

[TheGrimm.5624]

29 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Actually they shouldn't delete celestial, they should force everyone to only run celestial in wvw.

🤭🤔🍿

 

What's funny is was expecting this after the old Feb nerf patch where they did bolster sustain builds by nerfing everyone though I didn't feel it was the sustain builds that were asking for any nerfs. But the forums and the witch hunts created the nerf patch by the constant flow of, 'nerf it I died' threads versus addressing individual aspects. Behold the power of the wet noodle, and fear the zergs that travel in groups of 1. lol. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Many moons ago, a massive patch dropped and there were huge reductions in damage for some skills and traits. Anet obviously tried. Their emphasis was on giving players the opportunity to react. 

 

They were only partially successful. Sic 'em OWP Soulbeasts, backstab d/p thieves and power Willbenders are still deleting players in seconds. 

And still not sure who was asking for the nerf bat to all outside of the normal fiesta of paper beat rock and scissors is just OP threads that still pop up after. Even now we get Ranger is OP and needs nerfed but they are still not welcome in squads. The complaint is probably something that can't be balanced as a player that knows how to kite a target fighting a melee class that has no gap closers. Even if they applied the amulet sPvP system, WvW will never be balanced and removing options is the wrong approach versus addressing the outlying abilities that over perform, which is what they are trying to do.

[SleepyBat.9034]

21 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

cant agree with OP.

1. cele is a hybrid playstyle that is meant to create sustained fights . obviously, everyone that is aiming for 1 shotting an cheesing opponents, will be somewhat frustrated since cele is not easy 1 shottable, though it still is possible.

2. claiming it is IN GENERAL unfun is wrong, since OP can only speak for himself. 

3. claiming it can easily 1vX while the x also can play celestial makes no sense at all.

4. and in fact cele has not more power then only power builds, and not more condi then only condi builds. even on e.g. full power builds you can put in enough concentration and boon duration buffs with runes and more, that you can achieve high boon uptimes. dont see why full power builds wouldnt have access to boons like cele.

5. there are enough builds that are at least equally strong as cele , like builds that rely on high uptime of e.g. invis, blocks, invulns. that way e.g. builds on mesmer, thief,... can easily outsustain several players while being capable of 1 shotting. so this builds are at least as viable as cele builds are.

OP should stop searching for excuses for lack of success at the game. if you are a very good player it doesnt matter what builds people play, you will easily win 99,9% of your fights by pure skill diff.  if you cant, u are just not good enough.

 

This is basically everything I was thinking reading this post, I couldn't agree with these points more. Especially the 4th point because I have a lot of experience playing power Holosmith builds with some access to stats like toughness, healing power, and boon duration which can mow down most celestial builds with only a few exceptions. (e. g. DM Harbs, P/P Daredevils, and Tempest Rune Soulbeasts.)

[SleepyBat.9034]

7 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I'm playing cele soulbeast myself and eat most cele harbs for breakfest.

Oh really? I tried celestial Soulbeast vs some of the popular Harbinger builds and I didn't last very long. What build do you use?

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

addressing the outlying abilities that over perform, which is what they are trying to do.

Come on Grimm, you know that's not the case. There's outliers that existed for years before getting nerfed, and there's ones existing right now that won't get touched, not with the bias they obviously have. I would believe the whole shtick about balancing so every class has viable specs in every area from years ago, but that's proven to be a whole load of balooie. There's classes in the meta for ten straight years, and ones they've absolutely dragged through the mud, ones they've allowed to get away with insane damage and sustain, and ones that show a drop of either get traits or a dodge ripped off them.

Problem is there's no real framework of balance per class, yeah there's never going to be any real across the board balance in this game or mmos in general, but all we need is outliers to be tweaked when identified, and not tone deaf buffed again in some cases. But the bias is real, it stinks, but it also sells expansions to wvw players.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

And still not sure who was asking for the nerf bat to all outside of the normal fiesta of paper beat rock and scissors is just OP threads that still pop up after. Even now we get Ranger is OP and needs nerfed but they are still not welcome in squads. The complaint is probably something that can't be balanced as a player that knows how to kite a target fighting a melee class that has no gap closers. Even if they applied the amulet sPvP system, WvW will never be balanced and removing options is the wrong approach versus addressing the outlying abilities that over perform, which is what they are trying to do.

 

Let me give you an example with a question;

 

If you have cavity inside inside your tooth that is rooted inside your gum for many years. What would be the best approach in revolving the cavity inside the tooth before it spreads?

 

Toxicity is rooted inside the Professions including inside their designs, inside their balance, inside their mechanics, inside their skills, inside their traits etc...for so long, what has 'nerfing'-(cleaning the cavity tooth) has resulted with?

 

Absolutely Nothing!!

 

Just like Cavity, Toxicity spreads everywhere. Infecting everything that it is in contact with, in every game mode and in every Profession skills, designs, mechanics, game environment, runes, sigils, builds, Profession designs, environment designs, weapons, players experiences, etc...

 

This is 10-11 Years in the making and if Anet does not see this as an Epidemic; Toxicity will bring this game crashing down to the ground.

 

Just like the cavity inside the toot, without pulling the tooth, Cavity will spread inside the mouth and will take down the rest of the teeth.

 

No amount of repair, no amount of money will save that tooth

No amount of money, gems store sales will save the game.

 

 

 

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I will leave the thin attempts and bad guesses aside.

Yea, so how about some actual arguments how something that was perfectly viable before it got massve buffs for free and now offers almost 75% more total stats (before factoring in boons and stat conversion) than other gear, and therefore rendering almost all other stat combinations useless for small scale, can be considered balanced?

If you are on EU, i'm up for some showcase of your "can easily compete with cele" non cele builds ...

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So you run 100% cele on all your builds? Do you play all classes & elites or just some?

No. But irrelevant.

 

1 hour ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Oh really? I tried celestial Soulbeast vs some of the popular Harbinger builds and I didn't last very long. What build do you use?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POABcih/lVwmYhsH2JW+O5vvSEcFA-w

Full cele. Trapper runes, Cleansing, torment and energy sigils. Don't get me wrong, cele harb is still a tough matchup and a good one should win imo. But most die to chain cc and condi spam after their stunbreaks and elite are on cd.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Jojo.6590]

7 hours ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

 

Alright, may I play devil's advocate for a few minutes? If we are talking about trailblazer, dragon/marauder, or minstrel putting players in a role, then the corollary of that is celestial has no role, not necessarily because it is good at everything, but because it is uniformly mediocre at everything. On its own, it will heal less and deal less damage than these stat combinations.

 

Cele hits like a wet noodle, but we can justify it with builds that are capable of accumulating 25 stacks of might, with the boon duration sustaining it for the majority of the fight. And cele can still be very lethal if we already have very loaded skills/traits, and/or high damage coefficients.

 

I don't think cele is busted in and of itself. It merely points towards the stench of some of today's pay-to-win elites. When you combine those with certain rune and sigil combinations, they are already incredibly toxic. Cele just gives the worst players a clutch to avoid the repercussion of any mistakes, and buy them time to hit back and win. Cele also gives the best players an edge with these builds, because the increased sustain just makes them incredibly hard to pin down, so they can 1v3-5 like gods.

 

Delete cele, and we may raise the skill floor of those builds, a temporary issue most players will get over after a bit of practice, and they will continue to be deadly as ever.

 

TL;DR- I think we need to scale back today's most overperforming specs, rather than nerfing or simply deleting cele.

Bingo! 

[SleepyBat.9034]

46 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Full cele. Trapper runes, Cleansing, torment and energy sigils. Don't get me wrong, cele harb is still a tough matchup and a good one should win imo. But most die to chain cc and condi spam after their stunbreaks and elite are on cd.

That's not a bad build but I can't see you being able to deal enough damage to kill a death magic harbinger, especially if they run dark defense and anti-toxin rune.

Edited April 10, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[andrewlcl.8176]

6 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Every profession has at least one cele build that is strong for roaming.

Tell me again how its not the stat, but its the traits and skills that are overtuned.

 

We might even be forgetting one or two, like celestial Virtuoso. There isn't a single build there that is from core. Why? The elites (and builds) that came after core are increasingly loaded!

 

This is the point I was driving at. The issue is with both: the builds that abuse cele, and cele itself. 

 

Just slapping cele on anything doesn't automatically make it strong, or even viable. But we have builds particularly suited to abusing what cele has to offer. Take both together and you've got a proverbial wrecking ball. 

 

The duelers that you know might say cele is busted, but what they don't admit to is using the same overperforming builds, with or without a few minor changes.

 

Adjustments need to target both these loaded builds and cele gear. 

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

WvW is the one place I currently don't run celestial.  I often can't survive or make an enjoyable attrition build with it in WvW, because I usually face power or condi focused builds when roaming, and cele doesn't protect enough from them for me.  IME in celestial I'll likely fall when pitted against one of those extreme builds even if it takes them a little longer to win.  I currently run a settlers attrition build on an earth-water tempest, and that's been a blast to play (I love seeing the burst builds fail against it).

When cele was 7 stats, I ran celestial in PvE to test builds because I tend to come up with frequent build ideas, and it was the easiest way to test them w/o having to make new gear before I knew how well the build would work.  Now that it's 9 stats (which happened while I was taking a break from the game, so I don't know when the change happened), I tend to enjoy hybrid builds in PvE more than pow or cond, and cele serves that really well. 

I wouldn't want to see cele go away, in any mode.

 

~EpWa

[Jitters.9401]

I had nothing Cele on my mesmer till yesterday.  I was running commander's and assassin.

 

I tried a mostly Cele build with some assassin... my survivability jumped maybe 20%. It was enjoyable. 

 

There were three enemies taking a sentry (ranger scrapper and a catalyst).my original plan was to leave them be but then I saw an ally jump off his/her mount to attack.

 

So I bee-lined in to help but my ally was stomped by the time I was in range to jump off my mount. I was already committed so went in for the fight.  

 

It was a long fight and I was able to down and stomp the ranger. I was hurting hard so wasn't positive I would be able to remove the scrapper and catalyst from my proximity... but luckily for me allied reinforcements showed and the fight was won.

 

My first thought was "That Was Fun". Fighting them can be a pain, but if you are using Cele and fighting Cele, then it isn't so bad. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Let me give you an example with a question;

 

If you have cavity inside inside your tooth that is rooted inside your gum for many years. What would be the best approach in revolving the cavity inside the tooth before it spreads?

 

Toxicity is rooted inside the Professions including inside their designs, inside their balance, inside their mechanics, inside their skills, inside their traits etc...for so long, what has 'nerfing'-(cleaning the cavity tooth) has resulted with?

 

Absolutely Nothing!!

 

Just like Cavity, Toxicity spreads everywhere. Infecting everything that it is in contact with, in every game mode and in every Profession skills, designs, mechanics, game environment, runes, sigils, builds, Profession designs, environment designs, weapons, players experiences, etc...

 

This is 10-11 Years in the making and if Anet does not see this as an Epidemic; Toxicity will bring this game crashing down to the ground.

 

Just like the cavity inside the toot, without pulling the tooth, Cavity will spread inside the mouth and will take down the rest of the teeth.

 

No amount of repair, no amount of money will save that tooth

No amount of money, gems store sales will save the game.

 

 

 

Removing Amulets from sPvP didn't solve anything, it was avoiding addressing issues by sweeping items under the rug. How would it solve a 50 v 5 issue?

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

No. But irrelevant.

So you are judging all builds on the build you play and it magically makes everything else likewise awesome. So if you have found issues in your build did you provide feedback in the class forums? This is the issue I have is people crying nerf everything because I found something OP in a setup and I assume it's the same everywhere. Sorry not a fan of the nerf bat for all bandwagon. Are you saying you were happy with the nerf everything Feb Patch? Because so far, not found many who were.

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Come on Grimm, you know that's not the case. There's outliers that existed for years before getting nerfed, and there's ones existing right now that won't get touched, not with the bias they obviously have. I would believe the whole shtick about balancing so every class has viable specs in every area from years ago, but that's proven to be a whole load of balooie. There's classes in the meta for ten straight years, and ones they've absolutely dragged through the mud, ones they've allowed to get away with insane damage and sustain, and ones that show a drop of either get traits or a dodge ripped off them.

Problem is there's no real framework of balance per class, yeah there's never going to be any real across the board balance in this game or mmos in general, but all we need is outliers to be tweaked when identified, and not tone deaf buffed again in some cases. But the bias is real, it stinks, but it also sells expansions to wvw players.

Xen, when people ask for an entire gear set to be removed, not going to be a fan. I don't use Zerk anywhere but even when peeps said remove it ages a go wasn't a fan there either. Same with issues when Trailblazers and calls to delete during HoT days. Address the skills, and yes my friend I will err on it might get done, mind you old translates to stubborn kitten here. But someone has to play bad cop to avoid group think. So passing out tomatoes, which I admit I find yummy so game on, pass the ranch, salt and pepper. 🙂 Good hunting as always!

[Burial.1958]

Cele needs an adjustment, no question about it. 

[Sereath.1428]

[schloumou.3982]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:19 PM, blp.3489 said:

I won't be convinced until someone posts a truly OP cele build that I can win with. 😁

Btw, just how long are these long fights anyway?  And isn't endurance a virtue?

Depends on the skill level. The set gives enough sustain that you hit a spot where you arent making enough mistakes to die vs the pressure of a cele opponent fairly early. So two half decent opponents on good cele builds shouldnt die to each other ever. (With exemptions to counter builds like corrupt harb or something of cause). Thats why at this point you rarely see the set at duel spots with basically all skilled players in this game agreeing on it beeing stupid.

Edited April 11, 2023 by schloumou.3982

[prototypedragon.1406]

They could always replace celestials with the old school magic find gear stats from back in the day 😉

[kroxx.1032]

Couldn't agree more with the title

[patton the great.7126]

Delete Cele and something else will take its place. In an era where we can min max our gear I could certainly throw together a build that would be just as tanky and annoying as celestial. If you have a good understanding of the stats of this game and optimal thresholds losing celestial changes nothing. It's the classes themselves that need fine tuned by anyone other than Anet's balance team...

[hugeboss.5432]

I think I know what's going on here. When someone uses the "celestial soup" food, that doesn't mean they are using celestial gear (I get these whispers from time to time). It's just because the food covers the essentials, and u can't really notice much difference in wvw, so I load this food on all my toons (i make a lot of experimental builds).