Delete Ranger Downstate

[aymnad.9023]

6 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

not true. try it urself use a pushback on a pet they back immediately also did u ever push apet to fall down a platform?

When there are elevations yes pets do that otherwise they would just be like dummies on any map or when there is a jump like hammer. But the true question is, How often does that happen? And have you really tried to push it outside of this unlikely scenario that you cherry picked ? Because I can tell that you are lying if you say this is the standard scenario. It has to walk most of the time(see above once again)

Edited May 13, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Balsa.3951]

5 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

When there are elevations yes pets do that otherwise they would just be like dummies on any map or when there is a jump like hammer. But the true question is, How often does that happen? And have you really tried to push it outside of this unlikely scenario that you cherry picked ? Because I can tell that you are lying if you say this is the standard scenario. It has to walk most of the time(see above once again)

u said they are like player. i gave u example they are not 

[aymnad.9023]

4 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

u said they are like player. i gave u example they are not 

and a player can go back to the elevation / jumping. What does it prove outside of this unlikely scenario? That it will not heal or add boons to itself while rezzing?

Edited May 13, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Balsa.3951]

6 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

and a player can go back to the elevation / jumping. What does it prove outside of this unlikely scenario? That it will not heal or add boons to itself while rezzing?

pet port back. its also not unlike scenario. this happen a lot on skyhammer and kylo. u cant decredit a fact by saying its unlike to happen. even unlike to happen shows a advantage a ranger have

[Bazsi.2734]

Ranger downstate is objectively the strongest in this game. It needed tuning down 11 years ago. The fact that the devs never did that is proof that it will never change. They don't care.

[apharma.3741]

Ranger downstate is strong but the general rule is you always either cleave out or stomp a ranger. The only thing that imo needs doing is to fix the invulnerable pet during lick wounds bug that sometimes happens, it's too strong a rez skill for you to not be able to do anything to stop it.

[ventress.4879]

You guys realise you can just stomp or cleave the downed Ranger 😑

Why is the pet resurrection so OP? 

 

In gold or plat it is essentially just a plus one on your own or assisted resurrection. It's not that op. 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by ventress.4879

[magickthief.6492]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:14 PM, Zyreva.1078 said:

It's not a bug tho. Pet rez functions exactly like player rez - that one doesn't go on cd when interrupted either. So yea, nerf downstate and ressing - not just for ranger.

Lick wounds is a skill, with 20 sec cd. It is a bug. It is not exactly like player rez.

[Balsa.3951]

1 hour ago, ventress.4879 said:

You guys realise you can just stomp or cleave the downed Ranger 😑

Why is the pet resurrection so OP? 

 

In gold or plat it is essentially just a plus one on your own or assisted resurrection. It's not that op. 

 

so lets say guardian and ranger fight both go down same time. 

wanna bet with me who win now?

or is that a l2p issue on guards side?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:11 PM, ventress.4879 said:

You can also infinitly keep them from dying which could be looked at as an exploit of the pet resurrect.

Yeah, for all the complaining about it, they fail to see the great liability in lick wounds, that you can punish the ranger for attempting to revive. You can make the ranger's choice to attempt to revive much more punishing than a warrior making a poor choice to vengeance. As soon as he pushes that #3 just once, you can essentially bleed him and keep him out of the game upwards of a minute and a half before he can actually walk out of the respawn and return to the game. This is nearly as punishing to his team's rotations as if he had DC'd for that time frame.

Anyone complaining about ranger downstate is experiencing a l2p issue. It is not difficult to control the ranger when it is downstate and punish it like this.

5 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, they need those things to be on an even playing field with others? Equity, not equality. Rangers never win fights in upstate. If you lose to them, it's your fault, not your class. It's just different for Rangers, ok? Maybe you should pick yourself up by your bootstraps and L2P.

I was going to point out ranger representation rates in MAT but you already made my point right here.

4 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

are you trying to say ranger going in downstate is part of their gameplay rotation?

i thought the even playing field should be for when players are alive

lol Yup.

100% guarantee you that ranger mains would much rather have that downstate revive power removed and the sustain reallocated somewhere into the build for when you're on your feet and not off your feet. Maybe then, ranger could see MAT representation rates.

 

I love this Gold 1 thread though, written completely around the bias of not mentioning how most other classes have similar effects that are either equal or greater to lick wounds, and not only revive themselves but also players, and can stomp from remote locations:

1. Warrior Banner = instantly revives & stomps multiple targets upon use, also can straight get up off the ground and finish a kill for a chance to rally for free with no heal time even required to get up off the ground
2. Guardian Signet = instantly revive a player
3. Engineer Elixir = fast revive, can revive self
4. Scrapper Gyro = revives & stomps, can revive self
5. Necro Signet = revives a player, blood magic prevents players from bleeding and teleports bodies around
6. Mesmer Illus = revives a player
7. Ele Glyph = giga revives and can revive self
8. Druid Glyph = this is a potential giga revive, but any build that this skill is arguably viable on, doesn't contribute much outside of trying to 1v1 on nodes and using the glyph to self heal. It's the same issue Druid has always had, the idea of design is for team support, but it's designed all wrong and the Druid ends up needing to use those skills for personal sustain instead of support. These builds contribute virtually nothing in team fights for this reason, and contribute virtually no impactful damage output either. Point being is that this glyph is still not practical to use in the same way a function gyro is or a banner or a guardian revive, ect ect. Lick Wounds is the only real revive skill a Ranger has and he can only use it on himself.

But regardless of the obvious ^ as well as ranger's complete lack of representation in MAT teams since shortly after POF release, people still complain about it because pets kitten people off. It's like a psychological effect where it makes a person feel like they are getting 2v1'd so they complain about anything & everything that the pet does, even when it is suboptimal compared to what other classes are doing.

IE: I troll ffa or an unranked game on a literal PvE Heal Druid build and insta power revive other players with elite glyph like once per 40 seconds, and no one ever complains about it. But I self revive on ground with #3 lick wounds in a game just once, and even if they still kill me, they have to stop and /s chat some response to make sure I know how annoyed they are with the pet revive.

I mean consider the psychology behind this. It's just another case of people misunderstanding the difference between complaining about something annoying and complaining about something that is actually OP.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

When there are elevations yes pets do that otherwise they would just be like dummies on any map or when there is a jump like hammer. But the true question is, How often does that happen? And have you really tried to push it outside of this unlikely scenario that you cherry picked ? Because I can tell that you are lying if you say this is the standard scenario. It has to walk most of the time(see above once again)

 

3 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

pet port back.

1. Pets cannot be knocked off elevations. If you use a 1000 range knockback on a pet next to a cliff, he stops at the cliff and won't fall, same as creatures in pve.
2. Pets will teleport to the ranger when he uses lick wounds if the pet is currently attacking a target and the ranger is on a different elevation that the pet cannot walk to. If the pet has a pathing to the ranger's location, the pet will walk to the ranger, not teleport. If the pet is not currently being told to attack a target, it will automatically teleport to the ranger as soon as the ranger goes to an elevation that the pet cannot access with normal pathing.
3. If you interrupt a pet off the ranger during lick wounds, the pet does not teleport back to the ranger, it walks to the ranger. The only exception here is if you were to knock the ranger down an elevation that the pet has no pathing too, and in that case the pet will teleport to the ranger. The ranger can also swap pets and push #3 to begin a new revive when the ICD is off, which may look like a pet teleport to some people.

All of this hooga-booga is why Smokescale is so important, his smoke assault tele ignores elevations and you can't exploit his AI pathing so easily due to it.

[ventress.4879]

2 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

so lets say guardian and ranger fight both go down same time. 

wanna bet with me who win now?

or is that a l2p issue on guards side?

Its not always cut and dry it takes 10 seconds for lick wounds to be castable so if he bursts you in time you will die. 

I don't really see anyone talking about the pre-cooldown, it's not listed on the wiki

Edited May 14, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Balsa.3951]

19 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

Its not always cut and dry it takes 10 seconds for lick wounds to be castable so if he killed you in time you will die. 

I don't really see anyone talking about the re-cooldown, it's not listed on the wiki

why even defend a clear advantage?

guardian elite downstate also need time to activate.

ranger get even extra downstate skills via pet. 

also its absolutely cut and dry if 100% of the time downstate of ranger wins vs other classes

warriors is also to strong btw.

why should downstate balance not be balanced as well?

so we keep a advantage bcs reasons?

[ventress.4879]

33 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

why even defend a clear advantage?

guardian elite downstate also need time to activate.

ranger get even extra downstate skills via pet. 

also its absolutely cut and dry if 100% of the time downstate of ranger wins vs other classes

warriors is also to strong btw.

why should downstate balance not be balanced as well?

so we keep a advantage bcs reasons?

What happens if you have 10+ burn stacks or sit in a trap when you go down. The guardian push can also interrupt the pet resurrection so it is possible to prevent it long enough for someone to help. 

[Hotride.2187]

I only dont like that ranger is the exception of keeping downs down as long as possible (lol at the wall of text above saying you can keep a ranger down, gl 1v1 with a 2v1 bound to happen as you try to dps down the rezz speed / cc the pet and fail). That and ranger is really hard to stomp if you are being 2v1ed.

Its not bad to have an exception but maybe nerf the rezz speed and disable pet abilities while ranger is down. Dont see why a pet (mech too) should be able to do anything while the owner is down.

[Balsa.3951]

1 hour ago, ventress.4879 said:

What happens if you have 10+ burn stacks or sit in a trap when you go down. The guardian push can also interrupt the pet resurrection so it is possible to prevent it long enough for someone to help. 

ehmmm traps is also a ranger mechanic

pet can interrupt fear daze and attack what would u choose if those or 1  push back

ranger can also interrupt even pet can cast immobilize

Edited May 14, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[ventress.4879]

11 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

ehmmm traps is also a ranger mechanic

pet can interrupt fear daze and attack what would u choose if those or 1  push back

ranger can also interrupt even pet can cast immobilize

The pet skills are random, based purely on there cooldowns. Traps are also condition based so not very bursty, rather the power traps DH has are much better.

[Balsa.3951]

4 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

The pet skills are random, based purely on there cooldowns. Traps are also condition based so not very bursty, rather the power traps DH has are much better.

those in fact are not part of downsate u know? and yes u can control ur pet skills while down. i definitely remember casting fear with wolf

Edited May 14, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

You can already see Ranger mains storming here to defend it.
Meanwhile Elementalist downed state is like drunk uncle on wedding, if he falls on the floor, he can get up, make some fancy dance moves and he goes back on the floor to sleep.
One way or another, don't expect A-net to fix it or even balance downed states between classes, it's not gonna happen.

[ventress.4879]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:53 PM, Balsa.3951 said:

those in fact are not part of downsate u know? and yes u can control ur pet skills while down. i definitely remember casting fear with wolf

I was wrong you can still cast the skills, I never really needed to since I always cast all the pets skills when I went down. I never knew you could pet swap though. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by ventress.4879

[ventress.4879]

37 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You can already see Ranger mains storming here to defend it.
Meanwhile Elementalist downed state is like drunk uncle on wedding, if he falls on the floor, he can get up, make some fancy dance moves and he goes back on the floor to sleep.
One way or another, don't expect A-net to fix it or even balance downed states between classes, it's not gonna happen.

They have been in game since launch so I doupt anything will change. Most of the complaints about the downstates date back to launch and nothing has changed. 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

15 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

No........? You lose access to your toolbar so unless you cast it as you went down there is no way to do it. 

Rather than criticising the class's why not play it and see its flaws. It's only good when you get left alone, since you can rez that much quicker.  I'm often surprised how many people forget the Ranger has a quicker resurrect. 

This is false. The toolbar icons disappear, but you can still cast pet skills and swap pets while on the ground. 

[aymnad.9023]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

1. Pets cannot be knocked off elevations. If you use a 1000 range knockback on a pet next to a cliff, he stops at the cliff and won't fall, same as creatures in pve.
2. Pets will teleport to the ranger when he uses lick wounds if the pet is currently attacking a target and the ranger is on a different elevation that the pet cannot walk to. If the pet has a pathing to the ranger's location, the pet will walk to the ranger, not teleport. If the pet is not currently being told to attack a target, it will automatically teleport to the ranger as soon as the ranger goes to an elevation that the pet cannot access with normal pathing.
3. If you interrupt a pet off the ranger during lick wounds, the pet does not teleport back to the ranger, it walks to the ranger. The only exception here is if you were to knock the ranger down an elevation that the pet has no pathing too, and in that case the pet will teleport to the ranger. The ranger can also swap pets and push #3 to begin a new revive when the ICD is off, which may look like a pet teleport to some people.

All of this hooga-booga is why Smokescale is so important, his smoke assault tele ignores elevations and you can't exploit his AI pathing so easily due to it.

This is true and detailed but there are edge cases. For example the pet can end up standing diagonally instead of on the edge of a platform which can make it tp. Still it is a rare situation because of the requirements.

Edited May 14, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Terrorhuz.4695]

9 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

fix the invulnerable pet during lick wounds bug that sometimes happens

It's not sometimes, it depends on whether the pet was alive when you press Lick Wounds. The skill can also res the pet; if it was already alive everything is fine, if the pet was defeated Lick Wouds will res it and make it invulnerable for some seconds.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Balsa.3951]

9 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

No........? You lose access to your toolbar so unless you cast it as you went down there is no way to do it. 

Rather than criticising the class's why not play it and see its flaws. It's only good when you get left alone, since you can rez that much quicker.  I'm often surprised how many people forget the Ranger has a quicker resurrect. 

u may wanna test urself before tell others. im pretty certain u wrong here again