Suggestion: Add Treasure Trails (like clue scrolls in Runescape)

[Pooktress.2805]

I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this idea, but I couldn't find a thread about it here on the forums or Reddit.

Check the treasure trails page on the OSRS wiki for some context on how that system works, but here's my suggestion for how the system could be adapted to GW2:

"Clue scroll" is just a placeholder name; think of a better name. A clue scroll is basically a puzzle with steps that must be completed to earn a reward. Completing clue scroll steps would involve doing a variety of different things all around Tyria. For example, steps might include talking to obscure NPCs, interacting with random objects, completing specific events, killing specific bosses, or perhaps a combination of these, and perhaps with other additional requirements. Clue scrolls come in different tiers (beginner, easy, medium, hard, elite, master) depending on the source. For example, a level 3 Grawl could have a chance to drop a beginner clue scroll, whereas raid bosses could have a chance to drop master clues. Easier clue scrolls could be completed in only 3 steps, while harder clue scrolls might require up to 8 steps. Clue scrolls could be dropped by NPCs, events, lootbags, or... anything really.

Clue scroll steps might have obscure & randomly-generated specifications. For example, easier clue scroll steps might say "As a [class name], talk to [npc name] while wielding a [weapon name]" or "As a Ranger, kill a [npc name] with a [pet name]", whereas harder clue scroll steps might say "Kill [boss name] without dying or using your heal skill" or "Kill [boss name] without stability and without being interrupted". The difficulty of the clue scroll step corresponds to the tier of the clue scroll, so master clues might ask you to kill a tier 4 Fractal boss, while beginner clue scrolls might require you to perform a specific emote at a specific location or during a specific (Tyrian) time of day.

Rewards could include unique skins, ascended gear, materials, gold, or "valuable junk". Maybe an extremely rare chance for infusions? Each tier of clue scroll could have skins and a title that is unique to that tier, so even max-level accounts have a reason to complete beginner clue scrolls. Clue scrolls could revive old/dead content by requiring players to go back to areas they already explored, complete events they wouldn't otherwise do, interact with forgotton NPCs and objects, and so on.

Clue scrolls are one of my favourite things to do in Runescape; I'm surprised more games haven't copied the idea and I would love to see a system like that brought to GW2.

[The Boz.2038]

Both PoF and EoD have treasure-hunt mechanics. Nobody liked them.

[Pooktress.2805]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Both PoF and EoD have treasure-hunt mechanics. Nobody liked them.

Do you mean the "Buried Treasure" meta event in Desert Highlands? That's very different to what I am suggesting.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Pooktress.2805, I like your suggestion, but I think ArenaNet has currently much more urgent matters with the game to take care of and fix/improve before they can even consider spending resources on implementing such fun activities.

[Pooktress.2805]

1 minute ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

@Pooktress.2805, I like your suggestion, but I think ArenaNet has currently much more urgent matters with the game to take care of and fix/improve before they can even consider spending resources on implementing such fun activities.

Thanks and I agree with you 100%. I would definitely prefer to have bugs fixed  😅
This is just something on my wishlist for the game

[Danikat.8537]

This sounds like the design-a-weapon contest weapon collections (one example here) and a number of other collections. There's several related to Arborstone in EoD as well. You generally have to talk to an NPC to start them, then it sends you off to complete a series of tasks, either in a fixed order or as you find them but the overall process tells a story either way and at the end you get a reward.

It might help to have a different name for those collections, to distinguish them from the ones which are literally just buying/crafting/collecting items because a lot of people don't seem to realise it's something which already exists.

[Pooktress.2805]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:44 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

This sounds like the design-a-weapon contest weapon collections (one example here) and a number of other collections. There's several related to Arborstone in EoD as well. You generally have to talk to an NPC to start them, then it sends you off to complete a series of tasks, either in a fixed order or as you find them but the overall process tells a story either way and at the end you get a reward.

Collections and clue scrolls are completely different.

Collections can only be completed once, but there is no limit to the amount of clue scrolls you can complete.

Collections and achievements in GW2 are the same for everybody, but clue scrolls have randomly-generated steps like the examples I gave in my original post (things like "As a [class name], dance in [location name] after vanquishing the [boss name]") which make every clue scroll unique and interesting.

Because of this, I think clue scrolls would belong in the inventory; not the achievements panel. Or maybe a dedicated tab in the hero panel to avoid yet more inventory clutter 😅 I admit the idea needs more refinement.

There could be achievements related to clue scrolls, like "Acquire all of the unique beginner clue scroll skins" or "Complete 100 hard clue scrolls"

Edited June 7, 2023 by Pooktress.2805
clarification

[Zzik.5873]

So kinda random generated and repeatable achivement collection? Im up for that! I like the easter egg gameplay in this game 🙂

[Randulf.7614]

Isn't this what collections are? I mean they did some amazing collections with the first four HoT Legendaries, but they had to abandon them because they were too time consuming. Although slightly different from the suggestion, they utilise their own version a lot with many releases as well - some of which are suggested in this thread.

 

[Pooktress.2805]

18 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Isn't this what collections are?

Not quite; achievements are a different system to clue scrolls.

Achievements:

• You can check the journal to see what the next step is & how many steps are needed for completion.
• You can see the reward, there is no surprise.
• You can start an achievement anytime if you meet the prerequisites.
• Achievements are the same for everyone; there's no mystery or randomness.
• Achievements are usually non-repeatable; after you complete an achievement, it's done forever.

Clue scrolls:

• You don't know what the next step will be, and you don't know how many steps will be required for completion.
• You don't know what the reward will be, it's exciting RNG.
• You must first acquire a clue scroll by random chance from an NPC drop, lootbag, event reward, etc.
• Clue scrolls are completely random; with enough variables, there could be practically limitless variations of clue scroll steps.
• Clue scrolls are repeatable content. After you finish a clue scroll, you can go and acquire a new scroll, and it will be completely different to the last one you completed.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Pooktress.2805

[Randulf.7614]

It seems rather random though. Collections being focused and step by step seem like a better, more refined version.

I'm not against the idea, I'm just failing to understand what the point is or what it brings to the table other than simply existing

[Pooktress.2805]

5 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It seems rather random though. Collections being focused and step by step seem like a better, more refined version.

I'm not against the idea, I'm just failing to understand what the point is or what it brings to the table other than simply existing

Fair enough - maybe I'm doing a poor job at explaining the system, or maybe it's just not to your taste. If you're unfamiliar with clue scrolls in Runescape, I would recommend trying it; the randomness is part of the fun 😄

In any case, clue scrolls would be optional content just like achievements, so anybody who is not interested in completionism can simply ignore it.

[kharmin.7683]

16 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It seems rather random though. Collections being focused and step by step seem like a better, more refined version.

 

Don't we have enough complaints about things like the Skyscale?

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, Pooktress.2805 said:

Fair enough - maybe I'm doing a poor job at explaining the system, or maybe it's just not to your taste. If you're unfamiliar with clue scrolls in Runescape, I would recommend trying it; the randomness is part of the fun 😄

In any case, clue scrolls would be optional content just like achievements, so anybody who is not interested in completionism can simply ignore it.

I'm obviously not going to play Runescape just to find out what it is, but part of the dveelopment of these things is understanding why such things need to be in the game. What I'm trying to understand is how having something random for the sake of randomness is adding to the game experience.

Like I said, I'm not against it, but I'm not seeing what the goal is here. What gap in the game are we filling?

[Pooktress.2805]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I'm obviously not going to play Runescape just to find out what it is, but part of the dveelopment of these things is understanding why such things need to be in the game. What I'm trying to understand is how having something random for the sake of randomness is adding to the game experience.

Like I said, I'm not against it, but I'm not seeing what the goal is here. What gap in the game are we filling?

Sorry, I cannot explain why the system is fun, it just is 😅 or maybe you don't think it is fun, and that's okay. Some people don't enjoy clue scrolls, some don't enjoy achievements, some don't enjoy pve, some don't enjoy wvw - there is something for everyone!

edit: if you still don't understand, read my original message and my previous replies. Also read the treasure trails page on the OSRS wiki. Maybe watch a video about it - I bet somebody else can do a better job at explaining. Or better yet, try playing OSRS, it's a great game!

Edited June 6, 2023 by Pooktress.2805

[Danikat.8537]

The randomness would make them worse than collections for me. Firstly in order to get that to work it sounds highly likely a lot of the steps would be tedious busy-work like "Kill 10 [enemy type]" "gather 20 [material]" etc. but it also means there would be no connection between what you're doing and what you get from it, no meaning or story to it. Just a bunch of check boxes to fill to get a random drop.

That doesn't add anything I can't do already. I can wander around a map killing specific enemies, or any I come across, go do whatever world bosses I haven't done for a while, go through a jumping puzzle, whatever and I'll already get a bunch of random items in my inventory. I might even get an ascended drop, a rare exotic or precursor or a black lion key. (I probably won't, but it can happen.)

Yes these would be easier for Anet to churn out and for players to keep repeating endlessly than collections, which need some thought and planning put into them and so take time to develop, but IMO that's a case of quality over quantity; more pointless busy-work in return for random drops doesn't make the game more fun or interesting or even actually give me more to do since it would have to all be pre-existing activities.

[Gibson.4036]

I can see how this would appeal to some, but the first thing I thought of when I read it were the precursor collections. If ANet decided they were too labor intensive to make for legendaries, I do see them committing dev time to a novelty system like this.

[Pooktress.2805]

I need to clarify some things...

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

The randomness would make them worse than collections for me.

I am not suggesting this clue scroll system should "replace" collections, or anything like that. Nor am I suggesting one system is "better" than the other. I enjoy both. Why not have both? I don't understand the notion that we must choose. I see no reason why these two systems cannot exist simultaneously.

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

it sounds highly likely a lot of the steps would be tedious busy-work like "Kill 10 [enemy type]" "gather 20 [material]" etc.

This describes a fetch quest, which is different to a clue scroll. Clue scrolls should specify some additional obscure/arbitrary criteria to make the task more interesting, like "Kill [boss name] while inflicting more than X amount of damage" - then X could scale with the difficulty of the clue scroll and harder clue scrolls could add more criteria like "do it without weapons" or something - use your imagination.

And btw, clue scrolls would be optional side content just like achievements, so you can ignore it if you don't enjoy doing it.

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

That doesn't add anything I can't do already. I can wander around a map killing specific enemies, or any I come across, go do whatever world bosses I haven't done for a while, go through a jumping puzzle, whatever and I'll already get a bunch of random items in my inventory. I might even get an ascended drop, a rare exotic or precursor or a black lion key. (I probably won't, but it can happen.)

Yes that is true but usually people don't go back to content after they complete it. For example, I never choose to kill Tequatl anymore because the rewards aren't great and I have already completed all of the related achievements, but if I had a clue scroll that required me to kill Tequatl in order to progress it, I would do it for the clue scroll reward.

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

more pointless busy-work in return for random drops doesn't make the game more fun or interesting

Keep in mind this is just your opinion. I enjoy doing clue scrolls. Maybe you disagree, but that's okay; we don't have to enjoy the same things.

[Omega.6801]

We have collections. No need to introduce yet another one shot test balloon. I'd rather have resources spent on something else.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Omega.6801

[Randulf.7614]

58 minutes ago, Pooktress.2805 said:

I need to clarify some things...

I am not suggesting this clue scroll system should "replace" collections, or anything like that. Nor am I suggesting one system is "better" than the other. I enjoy both. Why not have both? I don't understand the notion that we must choose. I see no reason why these two systems cannot exist simultaneously.

This describes a fetch quest, which is different to a clue scroll. Clue scrolls should specify some additional obscure/arbitrary criteria to make the task more interesting, like "Kill [boss name] while inflicting more than X amount of damage" - then X could scale with the difficulty of the clue scroll and harder clue scrolls could add more criteria like "do it without weapons" or something - use your imagination.

And btw, clue scrolls would be optional side content just like achievements, so you can ignore it if you don't enjoy doing it.

Yes that is true but usually people don't go back to content after they complete it. For example, I never choose to kill Tequatl anymore because the rewards aren't great and I have already completed all of the related achievements, but if I had a clue scroll that required me to kill Tequatl in order to progress it, I would do it for the clue scroll reward.

Keep in mind this is just your opinion. I enjoy doing clue scrolls. Maybe you disagree, but that's okay; we don't have to enjoy the same things.

I’m going to correct you on one point. Usually players do in fact return to content after completing it. Tequatl was an incredibly bad example given it is regularly done on multiple map shards every day.

Same with every major meta. This is what stands gw2 out Vs other games. Content is repeated.

Anet already has the systems in place to encourage repeat play including boss and fractal rushes which were very popular. But, Anet - despite setting them up as repeatable events - abandoned them with reason. 
 

The issue I am having with this idea is that it isn’t doing anything that the game does not already do, albeit in its own tailored and unique way. So far, I haven’t been given any reason to think otherwise and I assure you I am not playing RuneScape - a game I have zero interest in - to find out more.

Like I said, whether I like the idea or not is irrelevant. It needs to fill a niche, not be added just for the sake of adding and have a reason for development resources to be pulled off something els3 for it. I’d love to discuss it more, but we need more than just “it’s fun in RuneScape, replicate it here”.

[Khisanth.2948]

20 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

but part of the dveelopment of these things is understanding why such things need to be in the game.

even more important is why it works in that game and knowing whether or not it is relevant in your own game

For example GGG purposely makes item trading somewhat inefficient instead of how we can easily buy and sell stuff on the TP.

 

As for random scroll drops that then requires me to talk to an NPC => https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Encoded_Orders . Sure the rest is different but at least the beginning steps are the same. Those things just turn into inventory clogging trash.

Various aspects of the other steps have already been tried as well for example the original way of acquiring the Mad King back items. As previously mentioned various collections already does the clue thing. They are not random but truly random is not really viable anyway. Some locations are off limits such as guild puzzles otherwise you are forcing people to join a guild in order to complete it and even then it has to be the right puzzle depending on RNG. If it was REALLY random it could also be in the middle of the air ...somewhere. As for obscure whatevers, Guild Treks does that. Conditionally doing stuff? => https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/All_or_Nothing_(achievements)#Chasing_Tales

The best I can say about them is that they can be fun in very small quantities but I would say the same for Treasure Hunting Kits which I engage in maybe once a year.

[voltaicbore.8012]

I get the on-paper appeal of what @Pooktress.2805 is suggesting. GW2 has a very on-the-rails feeling to a lot of it, and including  these self-contained, randomly generated quests with randomly assigned rewards adds an element of "oh I haven't seen this before!" excitement...

...at first. Having done map completes many, many times over, I doubt a random assortment of interactions or kill quests would really retain any form of excitement for players like me. As for rewards, I can already do a ton of these things in the game and never see an infusion drop, so the scroll adds no novel experience in that regard lol.

16 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

They are not random but truly random is not really viable anyway.

This is a big part of the problem. There's a relatively narrow range of activities that would work, and I think you'd see repeats quite early.

So yeah, add me to the list of people not very impressed with the idea.

[Pooktress.2805]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Usually players do in fact return to content after completing it. Tequatl was an incredibly bad example given it is regularly done on multiple map shards every day.

Sure, perhaps I should have chosen a better example than a world boss, because you're right; that's not dead content - I was just saying personally I don't do that event anymore because I have all the achievements and, in my opinion, the rewards are not good enough by today's standards.

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It needs to fill a niche

It's a treasure hunting activity/minigame, so it's for players who enjoy that sort of thing. Each step is a mystery; you don't know if it will be easy or difficult; you don't know if the next step will yield a reward or another step; you don't know if the reward will be small or big.

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

have a reason for development resources to be pulled off something els3 for it.

This idea of adding clue scrolls is not "high priority" and definitely should not take precedence over more important changes like bug fixes, world restructuring, dungeons rework, or (insert your personal gw2 peeves here). This is just something from my wishlist.

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

“it’s fun in RuneScape, replicate it here”.

Basically yeah. I don't see the problem with borrowing ideas from other games. For example, World of Warcraft clearly took inspiration from GW2 mounts in their last expansion "Dragonflight". Almost every MMORPG has things in common like raids, dungeons, bosses, etc.