anet is on a good direction.

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do know that EoD is done now after the last addition to Gyala Delve right?

So no EoD wont end up being that.

We do however got new paid expac to look forward to with their own short Gyala Delve maps added to them before the next expansion tho.

Well... They outdid themselves witch PoF and LS4. It will be hard to follow that. We'll see...

[Gravitron.7982]

15 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Some people. Of course, some people are still having fun. And not every map has always been the best map. There were plenty of complaints about Domain of Kourna when it came out, and to this day many don't like it. I didn't like Lake Doric. But at the end of the day, Season 4 was considered over all one of the best seasons.

I did pay for EoD and I certainly felt like I got $30 worth of entertainment, since I still run strikes. I like DE, and I liked the story.

Your car analagy is so flawed. People won't drop 2 million dollars on anything without knowing a lot about it. But people spend $30 all the time, on movies, on books, on all sorts of stuff, without really knowing. Look at how many people bought New World.

The fact is, this is the best value game I've played and I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. There are a bunch of people like me out there, who'll preorder the next expansion. And I get that you're unhappy with the game. I get other people are unhappy with the game. But this sort of misleading analogy is just that, a misleading analogy.

I don't think you understood my analogy. I said that people would be willing to spend $100k on a car that is worth $2 million, because for $100k you're getting a 2 million dollar value. NO ONE is going to spend $100k on a $6k car....no one. 

[Veprovina.4876]

24 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I don't think you understood my analogy. I said that people would be willing to spend $100k on a car that is worth $2 million, because for $100k you're getting a 2 million dollar value. NO ONE is going to spend $100k on a $6k car....no one. 

And you didn't understand something either. @Vayne.8563 is telling you that the "value" is subjective since games are not cars. You might not think you got your money's worth, but Vayne and somebody else does. So you can't say "no one" spends on something with lesser value, because the value is in the eye of the beholder and what you percieve as lesser might be just fine by someone else.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[Gravitron.7982]

27 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And you didn't understand something either. @Vayne.8563 is telling you that the "value" is subjective since games are not cars. You might not think you got your money's worth, but Vayne and somebody else does. So you can't say "no one" spends on something with lesser value, because the value is in the eye of the beholder and what you percieve as lesser might be just fine by someone else.

Yes, but I'm saying that some of us feel like we spent $100k on a $6k car. The issue isn't that we had to spend money, we just don't want to spend $100k to get $6k of value in return. Some of us feel like that's how much value we got in return. 

[Veprovina.4876]

1 minute ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Yes, but I'm saying that some of us feel like we spent $100k on a $6k car. The issue isn't that we had to spend money, we just don't want to spend $100k to get $6k of value in return. Some of us feel like that's how much value we got in return. 

Yes, we understood that, that's the 3rd time you wrote that, but you're ignoring the argument that some people feel like they did get value and that the $100k they paid for ended up being $120k value. Not to you, but to them, yes.

 

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Yes, but I'm saying that some of us feel like we spent $100k on a $6k car. The issue isn't that we had to spend money, we just don't want to spend $100k to get $6k of value in return. Some of us feel like that's how much value we got in return. 

Then don't pay for expansions before their release. If you were afraid of getting your subjective value out of the money you paid for a game, check the reviews and additional information about it before paying.

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yes, we understood that, that's the 3rd time you wrote that, but you're ignoring the argument that some people feel like they did get value and that the $100k they paid for ended up being $120k value. Not to you, but to them, yes.

 

And that's great for them, but it was brought up that people just don't want to pay....we do, we just expect something good in return...not rubbish. 

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

And that's great for them, but it was brought up that people just don't want to pay....we do, we just expect something good in return...not rubbish. 

This ""feedback"" provided no information. Of course people don't want to dislike what they buy, but that doesn't say anything about who likes what or what "value" the game -or expansion- is supposed to have. Funnily enough after writing you're not happy with the direction the game going in, someone asked you about that direction and you still didn't say what "direction" you're talking about. Instead you're -for some unknown to me reason- explaining that people want to like what they pay for. Well, duh. But that still doesn't provide any real information.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Veprovina.4876]

9 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

And that's great for them, but it was brought up that people just don't want to pay....we do, we just expect something good in return...not rubbish. 

And you're again ignoring that what you consider rubbish - other people consider good.

But we're going in circles and you're acting intentionally obtuse now, so in order to not get this thread locked, i'm stopping.

[Gravitron.7982]

6 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This ""feedback"" provided no information. Of course people don't want to dislike what they buy, but that doesn't say anything about who likes what or what "value" the game -or expansion- is supposed to have. Funnily enough after writing you're not happy with the direction the game going in, someone asked you about that direction and you still didn't say what "direction" you're talking about. Instead you're -for some unknown to me reason- explaining that people want to like what they pay for. Well, duh. But that still doesn't provide any real information.

If I said "I love this game" I wouldn't be required to state why. People can simply like or dislike things, that's just life.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

If I said "I love this game" I wouldn't be required to state why. People can simply like or dislike things, that's just life.

"I love this game" simply states you're ok with how it is. Saying "I'm not ok with how it is" says nothing and offers no chance for a change in the direction you'd want it to go, so it's pointless. Yes, that's the rather meaningful difference here.

Not only that, but OP writing "anet is on a good direction" also mentioned what specifically he's talking about. You still didn't. 🤔

Edited June 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I don't think you understood my analogy. I said that people would be willing to spend $100k on a car that is worth $2 million, because for $100k you're getting a 2 million dollar value. NO ONE is going to spend $100k on a $6k car....no one. 

Yep, you're correct. But it has nothing to do with what's going on in this game.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And you didn't understand something either. @Vayne.8563 is telling you that the "value" is subjective since games are not cars. You might not think you got your money's worth, but Vayne and somebody else does. So you can't say "no one" spends on something with lesser value, because the value is in the eye of the beholder and what you percieve as lesser might be just fine by someone else.

Yep, this is precisely what I'm saying. I've never had buyers remorse on content in this game. It's always been worth what I've put into it. On rare occassions I have buyer's remorse for a cash shop item, but that's different.

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And you're again ignoring that what you consider rubbish - other people consider good.

But we're going in circles and you're acting intentionally obtuse now, so in order to not get this thread locked, i'm stopping.

Doesnt look like he is ignoring that other people might like it when he explicitly says that it is good for them.

[Veprovina.4876]

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Doesnt look like he is ignoring that other people might like it when he explicitly says that it is good for them.

There's really no need to add to this. It'll just get the thread locked.

[Gravitron.7982]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:51 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

Doesnt look like he is ignoring that other people might like it when he explicitly says that it is good for them.

Yeah, I think it's fine if people do like it.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:59 PM, Vayne.8563 said:

Yep, you're correct. But it has nothing to do with what's going on in this game.

It was however very much on point as a response to the original argument exchange that started this subthread. Some posters mentioned they dislike the change in GW2 delivery shedule, and others assumed they dislike it because they will have to pay more often. The response (including the @Gravitron.7982's post, and earlier one by @Krzysztof.5973) mentioned that no, it's not about that, that they have no problem paying if they feel they get their money's worth - and the reason they dislike the change is because they think that is slipping.

Sure, not everyone needs to agree with them, but it does not make their point disappear - the complaints and disappointment is not about the cost. It's primarily about (perceived) loss of quality.

[Myror.7521]

Well lets say its in a better direction than some years ago. But at the same time they rushed now so many things that the quality of IBS +EoD and also this new Map + Story that will lead us to the incoming smaller expansion feels very Bad. (It was over all now over 1 year of no new or at least rly exiciting content so I See why peops are Just Mad) Tho I have still hopes the new incoming not rushed Expansion will gain better in terms of Story (and also real content not just Maps and thats it)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Poormany.4507]

Disagree with the OP on this one. GW2's at one of its lowest points atm for me. EoD was fine, then instead of getting several LW episodes/seasons and maps as many people who bought EoD expected, myself included, we got a single map with 1 hour of story that includes a lot of pointless filler content (carrying and stacking boxes as a story step, srsly?, random Kurzick rune sidequest, multiple copy-paste story battle sections). All this after over a year of waiting.

The new model is very risky with multiple issues that are already apparent:

• Probably no more large-scale expacs with long-term stories or new elite specs, at least for the next few years, if ever.
• Higher cost for less content that was previously free for regular players ($25 per year vs $30 every 4-5 years) for basically 2 or 3 LW episodes.
• The last of the 2-3 episodes is likely to be lower quality like Gyala since they'll mostly be focusing on the next expac at that point.
• Masteries are already feeling very niche (compare skiffs/fishing to mounts or gliding) so the new mini-expacs will quite possibly not include larger-scale ones as well, especially with the quicker development times needed for them. I find it very difficult to see Anet developing meaningful new large-scale systems like mounts or gliding with only a year or less of development time while working on QOL, fixes, and other stuff.

For now, I'm cautiously optimistic that Anet is just spending the majority of its resources/staff on the expac and that's why Gyala was poorer quality, and that they can pull off the new model successfully, as they surprised me with how good the mount system was in PoF, but my expectations are not that high rn.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Masteries are already feeling very niche

To be fair to this point, niche and regional mastery lines have always been in every expansion.

The Itzel/Exalted/Nuhoch Lore lines only see use in HoT, Season 3 and Dragonfall.

5/6 of the Ancient Magics masteries only can be used on specific maps, too. And the first one is a very situational (and heavily neutered) ability.

Just because HoT also brought Gliding, doesn't mean HoT doesn't have its own share of "meh, whatever" masteries.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

To be fair to this point, niche and regional mastery lines have always been in every expansion.

The Itzel/Exalted/Nuhoch Lore lines only see use in HoT, Season 3 and Dragonfall.

5/6 of the Ancient Magics masteries only can be used on specific maps, too. And the first one is a very situational (and heavily neutered) ability.

Just because HoT also brought Gliding, doesn't mean HoT doesn't have its own share of "meh, whatever" masteries.

Yep. In the end, what matters for most is not how trash the niche masteries are, but how impactful and widely useable are the few good ones. HoT gets a pass solely on back of gliding mastery line. PoF is mounts. Core is autoloot. IBS is... EMP i guess (still widely useable, but already a tier below compared to the previous ones). Compared to that Jade bots, Fishing and Turtle do seem rather lackluster.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

. IBS is... EMP i guess

And mount stealth. I’m really fond of my mount stealth.

And on the topic of regrets, EOD is the only GW2 thing I’ve ever regretted buying.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Gravitron.7982]

12 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Disagree with the OP on this one. GW2's at one of its lowest points atm for me. EoD was fine, then instead of getting several LW episodes/seasons and maps as many people who bought EoD expected, myself included, we got a single map with 1 hour of story that includes a lot of pointless filler content (carrying and stacking boxes as a story step, srsly?, random Kurzick rune sidequest, multiple copy-paste story battle sections). All this after over a year of waiting.

The new model is very risky with multiple issues that are already apparent:

• Probably no more large-scale expacs with long-term stories or new elite specs, at least for the next few years, if ever.
• Higher cost for less content that was previously free for regular players ($25 per year vs $30 every 4-5 years) for basically 2 or 3 LW episodes.
• The last of the 2-3 episodes is likely to be lower quality like Gyala since they'll mostly be focusing on the next expac at that point.
• Masteries are already feeling very niche (compare skiffs/fishing to mounts or gliding) so the new mini-expacs will quite possibly not include larger-scale ones as well, especially with the quicker development times needed for them. I find it very difficult to see Anet developing meaningful new large-scale systems like mounts or gliding with only a year or less of development time while working on QOL, fixes, and other stuff.

For now, I'm cautiously optimistic that Anet is just spending the majority of its resources/staff on the expac and that's why Gyala was poorer quality, and that they can pull off the new model successfully, as they surprised me with how good the mount system was in PoF, but my expectations are not that high rn.

Amen brother. Very well said, well articulated, and I agree with you.

[Obtena.7952]

People are making this more complicated that it needs to be, simply to justify getting what they want. It's literally this simple: if you are a customer that patronizes a business and you don't like the value you get for the money you spent there ... you simply stop patronizing that business.

Two things:

1. You can play GW2 for free. So even at this low cost available to EVERYONE ... if you aren't SOMEHOW getting value from GW2 playing it (because no one can argue the game is too expensive when this option is available to everyone), something about that is a YOU problem. 

2. The online gaming business literally gives you entertainment for pennies an hour ... and yet, people will STILL claim they didn't get the value from it. What kind of unreasonable standard is being applied here? What other form of entertainment is available to you for that cost? Again, if it's not cost-prhibitive for even the lowest income standards, then the idea that you don't get enough value from the game ... is a YOU problem. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Fueki.4753]

20 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The online gaming business literally gives you entertainment for pennies an hour ... and yet, people will STILL claim they didn't get the value from it. What kind of unreasonable standard is being applied here? 

The issue is not simply the initial price being divided over a long period of time, averaging out as "pennies per hour". It's that some people expect an upfront value for their upfront payment. Some people don't want to wait half a year (or longer) when they paid the whole price upfront.

If people are going to pay a hypothetical 25€ and only receive droplets of content amounting to what we got with two Gyala Delve episodes (which together are less content than any single Season 3 or 4 episode), I don't mind them complaining over insufficient value for their money.

I personally won't like to pay more than 10€, if a mini expansion ends up being less than two Living World episodes.

If Gyala Delve is anything to go by, it's not unrealistic to think that a mini expansion will be less content than two Living World episodes.

And all this is only considering the amount of content. The quality of content is a yet another dimension that some may consider.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753