June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Elleandria.2846]

Just now, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

Wow, that sounds like a lot of extra clears, even though you don't full clear every week and took a 3 month break

Destiny 2 lightfall released so i did Day one for that and comp clears have superceded FC statics lately

[nucklepuckk.1805]

9 hours ago, Hauwlyn.8051 said:

3 of it loops from the combo, the rest isn't even close. The auto is self might, not group might

 

Its self might, not group might, and none of it remotely loops.

Self might, not group might, but yes magebane is on the higher end of self might on pure dps builds.

Self might, only phantasmal force loops.

so no, the whole sub isn't getting 10 stacks out of nowhere, 10 self might is already the higher end of dps builds, some do 0. So if the quick/alac dps is providing 3 as per the skills you mention, then the healer has to do 22.

Have you considered that some builds might not be meta precisely because when people pug with them they realize they're way off their bench partly because they rely on their groups giving more might than the average pug gives? Might is sometimes trivial, but it's very specific builds(like alac mechanists) being played and being popular, it's not the majority of the meta builds doing that, as many PUG logs prove to this day, since plenty of them are just as bad as they were in lazy druid days back when we ran firebrigade.

Plenty of people being dismissive or not even realizing the problem with the massive variance because it's not like this game is demanding with its dps checks. Basically, remove mechanists, see how many more logs have atrocious might.

You're either not being genuine or blatantly ignoring things like finishers that also give might. No one player has to provide 25 might ever anymore. Get out of the 2015 mindset.

[Drag You Down.2615]

BTW, the quickness on Untamed is also a weird choice. I understand that you think that trait is too powerful currently, but there are many ways to bring it down to a good range, and you choose one of the WORST. Don't really understand that. 

Also, it is very hard to see Untamed in pve and wvw TBH. The skills seems powerful, CC, condi, many useful traits, but it is just not a very good spec of anything. To give Untamed a position in PVE content does not mean giving it a boon to let it becomes support. We've already have enough qdps, after this patch there will be more. However, there are only 2 qdps we will need maximum, so any others who want to play this spec will still be pure dps.

So tell me, why do you add a trait which probably no one will use, and delete a trait which everyone loves?

That is what I said previously, WASTING of design space! A good designer should let every part of the design to be useful and functional. AND a good design must be purposeful and creative.

[Hauwlyn.8051]

5 hours ago, nucklepuckk.1805 said:

You're either not being genuine or blatantly ignoring things like finishers that also give might. No one player has to provide 25 might ever anymore. Get out of the 2015 mindset.

First words you're quoting mention a combo. That is to say, a blast finisher into a fire field, which happens in this case from just using blast gyro. Litterally breaking down the examples in that post you quote, how much more genuine do you need it to be? Maybe bother reading the thread and see who's actually being disingenuous? Hint: It's not me.

[SocioPato.3254]

MAKE PISTOL / PISTOL THIEF GREAT ! ! !

[Gaiawolf.8261]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:42 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

Counterpoint: They'll learn the mechanic that killed them and how to counter it because the fail > retry timer is dramatically shorter, which has been proven to lead to higher information retention rates.

To argue against this is to say that bikes don't need training wheels, lol.

Skydivers shouldn't get parachutes either. They should just learn to stick the landing. 🙃

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

It's funny because They're going down the same path Elder scrolls online did, that ultimately resulted in Update 35. The patch that imploded the community due to last straw that broke the homogonized's camels back.

To anyone seeing this post, What patch do you think will finally implode the gw2 community? What will be their update 35? Bonus points for Eso refugees who understood the total damage update 35 brought.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Ashen.2907]

22 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

@Cal Cohen.2358

I also want to point out another thing:

GW2 has a very distinct, late oughts era combat system. It is keyboard-based. It is very Zelda-esque in its targeting and dodge mechanics. It is very Mario/Banjo-esque in its exploration and platforming. It is very Donkey Kong/Spyro with its mounts. The art style hides lower-rez models/textures with a painterly style like Okami. The especs from HoT/PoF clearly communicate a lot of classic fantasy job archetypes from the likes of WoW and Final Fantasy, with appropriately unique and engaging twists. So much of its minor details and major themes are love letters to 90s and 00s era games and media. And the boons and condis were definitely a product of that sensibility, but also generally the idea of allowing each espec to experiment and specialize. GW2's appeal is solidly with the aging gamer demographic who enjoy games not for their hyperrealistic graphics or combat spectacle, but for a lot of the core features and charm of older titles.

This EoD era of development, where everything is flattened and the devs are clearly trying to parse away all of the interesting features of the old system in order to implement some kind of new, simple "action combat" paradigm, is overwhelmingly the wrong approach.

When the devs for GW1 started seeing fundamental features that they wanted to implement accumulate: things like new playable races, professions/especs, platforming. They didn't tear down GW1 to do that. They stopped making expansions for it and diverted those resources into making an iteration on the GW model that was given the proper tools and foundations to evolve those concepts. They didn't make Utopia, they made GW2.

Prior to EoD, GW2 was fine. The only thing it lacked for was consistent new content and support for existing game modes, but as far as how the old content and systems worked, it was in very good shape. Not perfect, some things needed massaging, but the overall thing functioned as a multi-class RPG. And now I see all these balance patches trying to tear down that edifice to try to turn the combat into a braindead action game ala Destiny.

Wake up call: GW2 will NEVER be Destiny, or Overwatch. The graphics are too dated. The combat is expressly keyboard based and will never translate well to gamepads. And even a lot of minor details of the combat are just not designed with the elegance of a two-button action masher like God of War, FFXVI, Bloodborne, Vindictus. The amount of effort needed to make GW2 THAT is so astronomical that the resources would be better spent developing GW3 from the ground up. You know, like you did last time.

If you want a flashy, modern action/PvP game: MAKE GW3. Diversify your market niches, don't consolidate them.

All these radical changes are doing is eroding the quality of an already strong game. They are ensuring that GW2 will have no real niche, nostalgia, or invested playerbase by the time GW3 does come out because you will have diluted and blown up anything that made it distinctly itself and a fun experience. The Civ games have always had an issue of splitting their playerbases with new installments, but they at least tend to retain about half on the old game because it was its own zeitgeist. You are not going to have that because you can't just let GW2 exist and thrive and dominate in the era of design it was made for.

And, again, most of these changes are cheap, evasive answers to deeper development problems anyway. PvP is not as imbalanced as to justify all of these radical all-modes guttings, and is not going to get any better nor more player investment without actual support, new maps/modes, and actual policing of gamesmanship. WvW and the emergent problem of blobs is not going to improve with changes to boons and stripping--it needs universally accessible, blueprint-based or map-based counters to break up blobs. And if the only real problems you are facing in PvE are Boneskinner being broken by Scourge and Dragon's End being unpopular, just fix those encounters: tweak Boneskinner mechs, and remove the escorts from Dragon's End so that players' time investment on a multi-stage, challenging boss meta is more fair.

So far, after a year, all we have gotten are these cost efficient "balance patches" that all seem to be minimal  attempts to fix literally the many underserved elements of the game, few of which actually involve "balance". And, I would venture that balance is fairly low on players' hopes for the game, between the constant cries for actual development: PvP maps/modes, WvW maps/features, new raids, revitalization of dungeons, etc. etc.

I'm sorry if you guys have been strapped for resources, but if that be the case, why are a few balance devs being burdened with the responsibility of damage controlling literally every neglected feature of this game? You guys are trying to fix a sinking Titanic with tinker toys. That shouldn't be your job, ANet/NCSoft seem to be horribly mismanaging/misallocating resources if this is what it has come to.

Best post I have read all year.

[Myror.7521]

@Katary.7096 I think what the Guy wanted to say is. Torch get a nerf by default cause they reworked the traitline but not gain torch the 20% cd reduction baseline xd.

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Best post I have read all year.

Also I can't believe I didn't mention Gauntlet: Dark Legacy. Scourge is absolutely a Wizard expy and I will hear nothing to the contrary.

[Sapphic Savvy.8376]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:31 AM, Gabi.2351 said:

can you stop killing scrapper some of us still run this. lower the healing way too much. and less cleanses even more with super elixir. i read this first as buff but this is simple nerf on healing and it has alrdy hard time healing with other second supports.

I really don't understand the Med Blaster nerf for the WvW context. I think there aren't many people complaining about this because NOBODY willfully runs support scrappers anymore in WvW. At least organized squads don't, and haven't for a long time now. Druid and tempest do everything better with a lot less effort. It's plain as day to see with arcdps heal-add on plus watching the total cleanse per player with arcdps. I only play WvW so I can't speak for the other game modes, but the Med Blaster nerf in WvW seems unnecessary and only serves to alienate players that were playing support meta for a long time and may be intermittently playing or returning to the game mode since the series of significant nerfs. It's one thing to nerf something so that other classes are more viable, it's another to make the class/role so bad that they have no meaningful contribution to the squad.

[Sapphic Savvy.8376]

..

Edited June 25, 2023 by Sapphic Savvy.8376
accidental double/triple post

[Sapphic Savvy.8376]

..

Edited June 25, 2023 by Sapphic Savvy.8376
accidental double/triple post

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, Sapphic Savvy.8376 said:

I really don't understand the Med Blaster nerf for the WvW context. I think there aren't many people complaining about this because NOBODY willfully runs support scrappers anymore in WvW. At least organized squads don't, and haven't for a long time now. Druid and tempest do everything better with a lot less effort. It's plain as day to see with arcdps heal-add on plus watching the total cleanse per player with arcdps. I only play WvW so I can't speak for the other game modes, but the Med Blaster nerf in WvW seems unnecessary and only serves to alienate players that were playing support meta for a long time and may be intermittently playing or returning to the game mode since the series of significant nerfs. It's one thing to nerf something so that other classes are more viable, it's another to make the class/role so bad that they have no meaningful contribution to the squad.

The Med Blast change is so strange. In PvE I have never seen anyone say that the range is too big. If anything it's the opposite because it requires you to stand behind your group and heal scrapper's AoE heal range is bad so if people run away from the group or don't clump up, they don't get healed. The boon changes for WvW and PvP kinda make sense on paper but if it's not being run anyway, it comes across more like a preemptive nerf for something they think might happen instead of pulling from what players are saying and any analytics they have access to.

The range change would only maybe be fine if they made the cone wider and/or made it a true AoE without positional requirements, though even then heal scrapper doesn't bring much more than pure healing, regen, and quickness to begin with (plus gyro utility but people tend to not realize how much work those little machines are putting in). And with the quickness changes, they either lose that or they keep it but give up the utility of gyros and possibly even the Function Gyro. Better to go with a heal mechanist, heal quick firebrand, heal renegade, or druid since those output healing without positional requirements and provide more boons.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I'm getting mortal sick and tired of changes made to professions in the name of Alacrity and Quickness.  Either get rid of these boons or bake them into base combat stats.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Since we are not getting the warrior shield cooldown can we perhaps finally get a supportive staff for warrior?

[Batalix.2873]

5 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

Since we are not getting the warrior shield cooldown can we perhaps finally get a supportive staff for warrior?

That's banners. Banners could actually be a really cool kit-based support Warrior like they were originally intended now.

[Fifth.8169]

Transcendent Tempest is actually bugged. The duration in PVE is only 7 seconds instead of what I assumed should be 15 seconds.  My power tempest gets only 18k on golem while power reaper is 28k.  its so cumbersome to play elementalist. the element swamping is forced rather than decision based. I should have the ability to choose going to air or water for utility. Instead I am forced to go into another element to overload and quickly swap back to fire for dps. i dont want to go into air or fire and I dont know why I am forced to do and there is no reward.   fire air water  is basically the same dps as F/A/T    and oddly enough . F/W/T is the same dps as F/A/T  -- Air and Water are swappable for dps.   and Tempest can be replaced with Air or Water as well.   Air and Water talents are just broken there is no reason to choose one over the other. 

• Zephyr Speed should be upped to 15% crit. 
• Signet of Fire- should grant power.....
• Ferocious winds should grant Power based on precision. or a flat amount. or soemthing useful like periodic quickness. 
• Auromancer training.  is very bad. ferocity gives way less dmg than you may think. 
• Also please bring back the break stun  on Gale Song. That was moved to Eye of the storm (impressive name, but should do something exciting, like cast a giant lighting bolt... or EMP shockwave) 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Fifth.8169

[prototypedragon.1406]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

That's banners. Banners could actually be a really cool kit-based support Warrior like they were originally intended now.

Idk about banners back when they first had released the new updated version for them they made us place each of them and then pick them up one by one to move them and set them down with no weapon skills  when we had picked them up  and made them flat out useless 🤣 aside from the elite banner with the insta rez or finisher. If they wanted to make banners more useful perhaps adding some sort of facet to them or make all banners aside from the elite a kit which they do got something somewhat similar to that with the banner tactics in wvw but design it in a way that you don't have to take up extra utility slots just to use the banners that are desired. Could even honestly create f3 f4 f5 skills just to get access to what those banners would apply perhaps granted warrior has very little boon variation/ share aside from might or fury,  occasional stability  and the rare protection  and resolution. or just create a new weapon type then weave the banners abilities onto a staff and make it tied to  core that way it is not limited from the other especs I guess 🤷‍♂️ plus last I checked I don't think any of those banners actually do any sort of healing🤔 some barrier that lasts a few seconds sure but after that not much else happens. Plus confining the user to that space unless it is pve or specific limited movement areas of the game they kinda fall apart in areas of the game that require movement or repositioning due to their cooldown or limited minuscule effects.  It's kinda like warrior mace if your foe has stability behind clutter boons then your pretty much only hitting for 15's no matter what you do, honestly if they make animations that would go more in par with the effect of skills like stomp which appears to be a heavy hit but only gently sneezes at them as they go a inch away. It is still odd after all this time most CC's still only hit for 15's and appear like big hits but do literally nothing not even 1000 flat damage. Warrior mace needs some more justice heck not just mace all CC's  across the board should at most hit for around 1000 that way they at least feel a tiny bit rewarding upon actually landing them. Sure we got that on hammer F1 and mace F1 but what skills on warrior hammer do damage? Only 3 out of the 5 including the auto which the only decent one is hammer 2 which is where our damage gets front loaded, mace is in the same boat for the most part aside from having a main damage skill. And what do you do if your opponent has access to long durations of stability with 4 to 5 stacks? if you choose to use a hammer or dual maces with little to no boon removal?  That is even if you can some how cleave through the clutter boons while removing them.Your stuck like a fish out of water like a Quggan that cannot enter its rage mode to show it's teeth. And just gums it's foes until either the Quggan gets gutted or somehow the dph somehow wins out like getting a precursor drop from the mystic toilet.

[soulknight.9620]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:22 AM, Elleandria.2846 said:

https://killproof.me/proof/8XvZ/history#none This is API mined, this is 100% (Minus rare bugs) accurate since it shows unlogged kills as well

Its not accurate at all. Like at all. Pretty hard to explain how i got 3 legendary sets of armor with 5 kills of each boss lol. And oh look i never cleared a frac CM, better get my titles and achievs back to anet. Its only accurate if you urself upload ur logs or you go in as a static with one or more group members uploading logs. Otherwise there is a fat chance none of the hundreds of clears could get in that stat. 

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

Idk about banners back when they first had released the new updated version for them they made us place each of them and then pick them up one by one to move them and set them down with no weapon skills  when we had picked them up  and made them flat out useless 🤣 aside from the elite banner with the insta rez or finisher. If they wanted to make banners more useful perhaps adding some sort of facet to them or make all banners aside from the elite a kit which they do got something somewhat similar to that with the banner tactics in wvw but design it in a way that you don't have to take up extra utility slots just to use the banners that are desired. Could even honestly create f3 f4 f5 skills just to get access to what those banners would apply perhaps granted warrior has very little boon variation/ share aside from might or fury,  occasional stability  and the rare protection  and resolution. or just create a new weapon type then weave the banners abilities onto a staff and make it tied to  core that way it is not limited from the other especs I guess 🤷‍♂️ plus last I checked I don't think any of those banners actually do any sort of healing🤔 some barrier that lasts a few seconds sure but after that not much else happens. Plus confining the user to that space unless it is pve or specific limited movement areas of the game they kinda fall apart in areas of the game that require movement or repositioning due to their cooldown or limited minuscule effects.  It's kinda like warrior mace if your foe has stability behind clutter boons then your pretty much only hitting for 15's no matter what you do, honestly if they make animations that would go more in par with the effect of skills like stomp which appears to be a heavy hit but only gently sneezes at them as they go a inch away. It is still odd after all this time most CC's still only hit for 15's and appear like big hits but do literally nothing not even 1000 flat damage. Warrior mace needs some more justice heck not just mace all CC's  across the board should at most hit for around 1000 that way they at least feel a tiny bit rewarding upon actually landing them. Sure we got that on hammer F1 and mace F1 but what skills on warrior hammer do damage? Only 3 out of the 5 including the auto which the only decent one is hammer 2 which is where our damage gets front loaded, mace is in the same boat for the most part aside from having a main damage skill. And what do you do if your opponent has access to long durations of stability with 4 to 5 stacks? if you choose to use a hammer or dual maces with little to no boon removal?  That is even if you can some how cleave through the clutter boons while removing them.Your stuck like a fish out of water like a Quggan that cannot enter its rage mode to show it's teeth. And just gums it's foes until either the Quggan gets gutted or somehow the dph somehow wins out like getting a precursor drop from the mystic toilet.

Here's how to make banners interesting:

* Simple way: what they are now, but also alac. As it stands you can take the right runes and only have to run two banners--a combo field and a blast--to keep full quickness uptime. If alac were on Banner of Defense and a parallel trait to Standards added with alac, Warrior could modularly combine their kit with the four banners depending on build, since the quick/alac banners would be combo fields and the power/condi banners would be blasts. Thus the permutations would sort out as alac/power, alac/condi, quick/power, quick/condi. This method would be the closest to what already exists, therefore the easiest to implement. Upside would be only two slots needed for banners on any Warrior support build, allowing for easy tacking on to a variety of builds. Downside would be minimal flavor/interactivity of the banners themselves, as well as the fact that you would still need to swap runes to make them work (but that is the case for most support builds anyway).

* Deeper way: bring back banner kits, but with a twist. Each banner would pulse a key boon (or generate it with a skill) while held instead of needing to be placed. One banner for quickness, one for alac, maybe protection and resolution on the others. Each kit would have a few variations on the banner abilities--one might do condi damage, one might do power damage, one might grant barrier, etc. At minimum the kits would feature: 1 - AA poke and 5 - throw the banner like a spear. Upside to this would be warrior finally getting spears as a weapon and a soft fourth "tactician" espec, as well as a more engaging way to be a boon provider than just slamming down current banners which are effectively just wells.

I actually do think that certain core slot skills have the potential to be a good way to low-key implement new espec fantasies without having to design a whole espec. And I think banners are a very good candidate. Ranger's Spirit summons could be too if they had a more engaging gameplay loop and felt like more than babysitting turtles.

[Zok.4956]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:24 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

When devs break their own game with classes that practically play themselves, the ignorant masses take the path of least resistance, and there is increasing pressure from the devs to make the rest of the game as "easy to play".

"ignorant masses"? There is no good reason to insult other players just because you don't like their game play.

It is a good thing for the game to also have low-intensity builds. They don't break the game. Bad balancing breaks the game.

[Batalix.2873]

17 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

"ignorant masses"? There is no good reason to insult other players just because you don't like their game play.

It is a good thing for the game to also have low-intensity builds. They don't break the game. Bad balancing breaks the game.

Mech is bad balancing, inherently as designed and implemented. Euphemistically calling it "LI" doesn't change that fact.

Also wow if you took a general truism as a personal insult, that's your problem, not mine.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Zok.4956]

4 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Also wow if you took a general truism personally, that's your problem, not mine.

And you're doing another ad hominem attack. I didn't take it personally, but calling them "ignorant" was still an insult and disparagement to other players.

[Suyheuti.1732]

9 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

I'm getting mortal sick and tired of changes made to professions in the name of Alacrity and Quickness.  Either get rid of these boons or bake them into base combat stats.

I know how you feel about that two boons. I totally agree with you. But instead of getting rid or bake them, I always defended these boons should have been self generated only (by skills or by traits). Not group shared. That would create more versatile builds and different playstyles.