June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Cerberus.6402]

I have no opinion

[Virdo.1540]

When 50% are Harbinger & 50% are Willbender in WvW, its balanced

[Szatko.8132]

10 minutes ago, Jurojin.3846 said:

The question is, why scourge would still exist? Better just remove this profession from game and maybe add something new instead. Similar to other classes, so no matter which you play, you will do the same - for WvW best with bow.

Because support Scourge is totally useless outside of "playing with total randoms that will die every 3 seconds" situations? I don't like the exact way they implemented the boon into their kit, but overall it's a step in a good direction. Every profession should have at least 1 solid build for DPS, utility DPS and heal and Necro was really lacking that support option.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Szatko.8132

[Batalix.2873]

Overall I really, really like this patch. Finally we have some clearer delineations of support roles and much less spammy ways of providing quickness/alacrity. Highlights for me:

A buncha under considered kitten.

EDIT: While I generally like the boony aims of this patch, more thought has revealed a lot of issues that I delineate here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131631-june-27-balance-update-preview/?do=findComment&comment=1910257

I feel the need to formally rescind any compliments I paid this patch. It is overall quite bad and I don't agree with nearly any of the changes outside of the general aim to expand alac/quickness availability. It is, almost in every detail a "bad patch".

Edited June 17, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Cyanophyta.6345]

Wow. This current dev team reeeeeally hates mesmer, especially mirage. You've not only killed alac mirage, you're dancing on its grave at this point. We get chaos vortex condi damage cut in half after cutting alac generation in half with the previous patch? And the dodge changes? You've basically just given mirage a normal dodge, removing the unique gimmick of the entire elite spec. Wtf.

You've effectively nerfed mirage out of existence. There's virtually no reason to use it in pve or pvp/wvw now.

[Acheron.1580]

I assume alac is now on shadow shroud from shadestep, which for some reason you failed to be specific on what boons it gives. In the same line of thinking, does untamed now give quickness with let loose (since again it doesn't mention buff types and if not then ranger would be the only class in the game that wouldn't have group quick and alac options)?

[Zeolith.6508]

what in the hell is that shade nerf, just makes scourge unplayably annoying.
what was that supposed to accomplish? its not really doing anything other than make it more annoying to play

[psizone.8437]

Please for the love of god don't nerf Winds of Disenchantment more in WvW, in fact - buff it.

The boonball meta is tiresome, give us some proper counterplay rather than having to run a bigger boonball.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

I guess you're done with Reaper but before you canned it again, can you revert the changes to RS#1 and add that damage boost to RS#2 and RS#4 instead? We don't need more damage anymore but right now, our DPS is very inconsistent and spamming RS#1 to achieve maximum DPS is boring as hell.

• Well of Blood: This skill now applies regeneration with every pulse.

pointless change. Regeneration is the most useless boon and WoB is the worse healing skill.

• Ritual of Life: Reduced revive percentage from 7% to 2% in PvE only.

meh.

• Quickening Thirst: This trait has been reworked. Gain life force when you strike an enemy with a dagger skill.

I guess =:/

• Life Siphon: This skill is no longer channeled and will instead perform a single attack. Enemies struck by the initial attack will be dealt damage over time, and the user will be healed when damage is dealt.

not a fan of how this sounds but we'll see.

• Life from Death: This trait no longer revives allies and now increases outgoing healing.

ok.

• Banshee's Wail: This trait no longer increases outgoing healing.

nobody is going to use this trait ever.

• Transfusion: This trait now only teleports downed allies when initially activated. Reduced the revival pulse from 2% to 1% when used with the scourge elite specialization in PvE only.

meh.

• Unholy Feast: This skill now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.
• Spiteful Spirit: This trait now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.
• Enfeebling Blood: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.
• Lesser Enfeeble: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.

WHAT IN THE... ARE YOU KITTEN KIDDING ME??? WHY IN THE NAME OF GRENTH ARE YOU DOING THIS?!

• Devouring Darkness: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 18 seconds in WvW only.

meh.

• Signets of Suffering: This trait has been reworked and causes signet skills to remove boons from affected foes.
• Signet of Vampirism: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds.
• Plague Signet: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE and from 45 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the number of conditions transferred from 5 to 4 in PvP and WvW.
• Signet of Spite: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 40 seconds in PvE and from 40 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the duration of cripple, blind, and weakness to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW. Adjusted the duration of bleeding, poison, and torment to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Signet of the Locust: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvE only.

sounds good. Add an unlockable effect to SoS so it's not useless. Also, is there any chance you could remove the Stun Break from PS and put it in SotL?

[GigityCat.7529]

[Arc Divder] needs to be 3 strikes to strip aegis,

if [Lunar Impact] dazes AND immobilizes on a 5s cooldown there will be no counter play to it just like old [Chaotic Interruption],

and [Immortal Dragon] is a MUCH better place for group alacrity. As it is [Daring Dragon] is cool and [Immortal Dragon] is redundant.

[Fang.1407]

PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE SPECTER'S ABILITY TO REVIVE PEOPLE FROM SHADESTEP

The shadestep trait is the only way Specter currently has to revive people effectively or at long range. Other professions still have the ability to do so in some way. By changing the shadestep functionality you are removing our only long range revive on Thief and the one thing that was keeping us at pace with other healers. The rest of these changes for Specter were great, but this still hits us very hard, even with the changes to scepter skills.

[ZEUStiger.3590]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:50 AM, NeedForSleep.7390 said:

• 
  For the love of god and all that is holy. This skill is the pinnacle of warrior class fantasy. To spin and everything kittening dies. Please revert this change. I agree as a warrior main since launch, its extremely powerful. But the issue was just the obscene power buffs you gave berserker. Please for the love of god look at the buffs you gave to smash brawler and bloody roar you made only a few months ago.
  
  Please. From the perspective of a warrior main since launch. Don't kill the one skill that makes me feel like a warrior. Just tome my damage down, I'll be a good boi.

   

There is no need to tone down damage. PvE-wise berserker is in a decent spot currently. If anything, it could use even more of a damage buff considering that it's not capable of providing any group utility. Unlike, for example, reaper, which has a respectable arsenal of utility among its utility skills (which, of course, have an opportunity cost, but warrior has none whatsoever), and, completely unsurprisingly, has over 3x the playrate of berserker currently in raids, and over 9x in fractals. All while having effectively a very similar dps benchmark if you disregard weaponstowing exploits.

 

EDIT: I see some confused reactions to this, so here, let me give you a rundown. I'll use my list of utilities from the last balance patch preview:

• Pulls:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: Grasping Darkness, Spectral Grasp
• Pushes:
  • Berserker: Stomp, Rifle Butt if you're willing to make that sacrifice, and you might want to say Kick, but the knockback range on that is insignificant
  • Reaper: -
• Portals:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: -
• Teleports:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: Flesh Wurm, arguably Spectral Walk but only if you need to return back
• Projectile reflects:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: -
• Projectile blocks:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: Corrosive Poison Cloud
• Ranged dps:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: -
• Burst damage:
  • Berserker: entirely absent ("Graph" tab)
  • Reaper: small ("Graph" tab)
• Boon strip:
  • Berserker: -
  • Reaper: "Nothing Can Save You!", Signet of the Locust, Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption
• CC:
  • Berserker: high, but also essential part of the rotation. more available through utilities
  • Reaper: high, not as critical to the rotation. more available through utilities
• Aegis:
  • Berserker: Banner of Defense
  • Reaper: -
• Stability:
  • Berserker: Banner of Tactics
  • Reaper: -

Summary:

• Berserker is better than reaper at pushing enemies away, and giving their group defensive boons that normally might be given by support players anyway
• Reaper is better than berserker at pulling enemies close, instantly repositioning via teleports, blocking projectiles, stripping boons, CC, and slightly better at burst power damage

Dunno about you, but I can easily see which one between these two is the clearly superior choice. And the playrates support that.

Edited June 11, 2023 by ZEUStiger.3590

[zealex.9410]

Im cold on the arc divider change, i would go as far as to say its a bad change. The problem isnt the long channel and the triple hit but rather the long aftercast and your fix destroys the feel of the skill.

 

Much like gs 4 and 5 on guardian all you would have to do for arc divider is simply cut down the aftercast. Revert these changes and simply attack the aftercasts pls.

[StabbersTheThird.6053]

56 minutes ago, LichOverlord.6329 said:

I get that they're frustrating to play against, but this is not the way to do it. How would you feel if they removed your daredevil dash traits and instead you just dodge normally like everyone else - wouldn't you feel like your class's unique identity is tarnished?

Going after a core feature of a spec that's been the way it is for years across all game modes just for the sake of one is silly, and I'd rather see them add limiters to the dodge in pvp than remove key aspects.

No. Because its entirely different. Vindicator cannot dodge while immobilized let alone stunned. Their dodge provides buffs based on trait. Daredevil can only dash while immobilized on one of three, but not while stunned- and they are IMPAIRED for it. There is no candy. Mirage? Mirage dodges during stun or immob, gets a bonus attack, and gains all dodge trait benefits (clone, reflect, boons). Mirages CORE dodge trait is Ambush+Distort- it is not "get out of jail free". I disagree with you on a fundamental level because you are simply incorrect. I am sorry. If they removed the dodge options on Daredevil they'd be fools because thats the point. Daredevil does not get ANYTHING besides that. It has an entire grandmaster set and two minors attached. Vindicator has a grandmaster and a master set and a minor attached. Mirage has a minor attached, then some ways to extrapolate- but it does not lose out in the same way because it is regaining rather than selecting.

Vindicator Dodge is the jump providing damage, heals, or boons. Using skills that provide evade do not provide Vindicator Dodge.

Daredevil Dodge is Power damage, Condi damage, or mobility with limitations. Using skills that provide evade do not provide Daredevil Dodge.

Mirage Dodge is distortion (so it double dips distortion traits and doge traits) as well as an empowered attack via Ambush. It can also be triggered from Mirage Mirrors.

This is an objectively good change. It fixes pvp and lets you dodge twice. By reducing endurance cost rather than double size of bar it also DOUBLES the effectiveness of Vigor. This is a massive buff. At least as far as I can tell.

Edited June 9, 2023 by StabbersTheThird.6053
Clearing language and I am dumb

[AresGuildwars.6372]

Please just don't let it go live (like this). Just let us drink some tea and talk about it. How about we all just forget mesmers and neither buff nor nerf them and just let em be at this point? Same for Necro. I really like Harb in WvW and once you overbuff it with this patch, you probably gonna break it the next time, so let's just skip all of this and don't change a thing. Actual Scourge players will probably be on the same page. Just please don't let this go live. We'll do whatever you want; can someone grab em a few bottles of water for starters? >.<

Edited June 10, 2023 by AresGuildwars.6372

[Chazara.9075]

Anet I get that you want to make Scourge a viable support, which it has it's uses but these changes are really... Questionable is a nice word to use for it.

The rezzing power and sheer barrier output of Scourge has always been it's strong point, most of it is baked into the Blood Trait line which you are now gutting just because of Scourge instead of looking at the issues with the elite spec itself? This seems like an over complex nerf to HealScourge in order to give it a boon that yes makes it a viable pick but doesn't actually make it a viable healer as a Condi Alac version doesn't make sense with the traits required given your shades need to be on party more than on target.


Key points;

--Putting Alac on the barrier application is thematically correct, and where most of us expected it to be placed thanks for thinking of us Scourge players!
--Scourge is undeniably the worst /healer/ even with its current benefits or near full Healing Power stats. Its one of the best mitigations and can be very powerful in some situations but for general healing its bad and now will be rather objectively worse overall (which yes the point is to nerf it slightly order to give it a boon) and if the amount of barrier is untouched the uptime of Manifest Shades alone makes this a worst mitigation option as well. (Not even noting that Alac Mech gives alacrity on the barrier application but gives next to no barrier in the process)
-- On that note it feels like you are just trying to replace Heal Alac Mech especially with the medikit nerf?
--Barrier from scourge has always been 12 target (Shade x 3 (with the player counting as a shade)) this could've been changed to a five target cap TOTAL instead of party first and if any party members are not in range of a shade it would apply to other players instead but still hit 12 targets.
--Shade Cooldown no longer matches Shade usage, Manifest Shade has a 10s Cooldown without Alacrity this actually effects Condi Scourge more than HealScourge as the Sand Sage minor trait is quite literally dead with this change. And given you cant take Sand Savant to counter act the reduced Concentration/Expertise if you want Alacrity the minor trait seems to be ENTIRELY overlooked. Condi Scourge is already slowly being out shined by Reaper and Harbinger and this change makes it even worse now.
--Putting the Alac on barrier makes it a 12 target ability instead of following up with the 5 target cap of near all boons. Just put it on Sand Savant so it gives player one large shade to work with but is still having barrier applied. Micro managing 3 small barriers (since you are locking Sand Savant out of being an option) makes for the near worst alac possible due to the short uptime of each shade, and Alac Willbender is in a horrible place.
--Sand Cascade has an 8 1/2s cooldown before Alacrity meaning you /might/ get a double proc of alacrity for about 1 in 3 shades
--Allow Feed From Corruption to grant boons to all allies? Its a pretty dead trait on all builds except WvW and even then not really the best option either since you are removing a lot of corruptions so its just stolen boons which is kind of Thief's thematic.
--Sandstorm Shroud pulsing barrier is actually nice, very good change
--Abrasive Grit now granting might on barrier application seems like a bit of a cop out since Sand Flare is somewhat of a lesser skill as Blood Well has been a better option since this initial rework, doubly so since Dessicate is going to be a very good might generation source with this update on top of Blood is Power being used with it. Scourge itself will be very on top of Might generation without this change. Most classes give might in some form or another (excluding Alac Willbender which gives none) and necro is no exception to that rule already
--Sadistic Searing was already not used in most builds even for its CDR, the internal cooldown for the burning on shade is pretty long for the amount of damage it gives since most builds don't take a lot of punishment skills in the first place so I think this needs to be looked into


I really don't think that this build was well thought out or will be played in the current iteration the team has created, yes Scourge providing a support boon has been an idea and /barely/ asked for but this wasn't the right way to do it in the first place. Before this patch goes live relook into this and make some adjustments or scrap the idea for a later date when a more appropriate version has been suggested.
Side note; Harbinger Blight nerf? This is the second time, please stop. You added blight generation on shroud which made upkeep feel better but taking away its damage really makes that buff seemingly worthless.

P.S. - Most of these changes are questionable and is in my honest opinion the second worst balance patch in a long time *cough cough* June 28th 2022 *cough cough* Even if the playerbase expected incoming nerfs
P.P.S - So uh, where is the Alacrity on Specter now if its not on the Wells?
P.P.P.S - If your team is "Listening to player feedback to make the game feel better" This patch doesn't show that intent and it feels that Grouch made a very empty promise

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

1 hour ago, Dieselface.5193 said:

Boon rip in WvW is already undertuned, why are you nerfing it across the board like this? And you say you just don't like ranged boon rip but you're also nerfing pretty much the only melee boon rip option, spellbreaker. 

necro boon ripping is taking a massive hit. If you think boonballs and celebots are a problem, wait until this patch goes live.

[Moriquendi.4209]

Actually insane that we're looking at more boon strip nerfs for WvW. It's not fun fighting 50 people with every single boon in the game ignoring the majority of skills and damage. 

[Mauti.3520]

I love this!

[zealex.9410]

This is my opinion, but if a cdr trait is never picked then maybe we dont need the cdr of that trait baseline, some skills are already incredibly strong without that cdr into acount.

[Barraind.7324]

  

On 6/8/2023 at 4:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Weighty Terms: This trait no longer reduces the mantra charge-recovery times. Increased pages granted from 1 to 2.

 

"We didnt reduce the base cooldown of mantra charges because" (nothing followed that because)

This is a weird change to make.  That trait is essentially mandatory in every quickbrand build (both HB and QB), because that 20% cooldown reduction is a meaningful portion of boon uptime, as it brings the charge time of Solace closer to the ICD of liberators vow in addition to the extra uptime from Potence. 

 

No page skill provides quickness by itself. Extra extra rewards for doing a thing which actively harms the thing you are doing (except for mantra of flame on QB) is an awful trait. 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Barraind.7324

[Sincarion.1034]

1 hour ago, FalsePromises.6398 said:

Hot hot no. BIG no. It should be a golden rule to NOT design important things around combo skills in Guild Wars 2 given how jank and inconsistent they are. Scrapper quickness is fine as-is. Don't try to screw scrapper over AGAIN just because of WvW, or whatever this is for. 

That's the funny part, in WvW scrapper has no quickness atm.

[TheTigerBlaze.8617]

Necromancer
I'd rather the nerfs to Necro's boon corruption ONLY apply to PvP and WvW, and not on all game modes.
For the game modes mentioned, understandable, but it doesn't make sense in PvE to not take advantage of boon corruption in instanced content such as Fractals, where No Pain No Gain instability is a thing, and in certain parts of raid wings where bosses can generate boons on themselves, or steal them from players. I know some would argue that other class specs such as Spellbreaker Warrior can strip boons and still do high amount of damage no problem, but again, doesn't make sense to me.

Engineer

I've yet to play and gear up my engi builds (including Scrapper) but by the time I read the changes for Scrapper quickness generation, this again feels off to me. Blast and leap finishers as far as I know are tied with engi rifle, hammer and turret skills (engi mains can help me correct and add more here I only tried the class a little bit), so in turn it will only make QuickDPS Scrapper viable and only QuickDPS. Not HealQuick, as I was hoping there would be a buff for that to make HealQuick Scrapper a bit more playable but guess not...

I do recognize the effort to have all classes provide both alacrity and quickness, but more work needs to be perfected a bit more before the balance patch could even set sail.

[Asum.4960]

Looking at Necro, you seem to be intent on removing some of the last remnants of unique and interesting mechanics and class identity. 

Interesting and unique Traits like Signet of Suffering once again are phased out for bland effects like boon removal instead, like most other unique Traits across the game have gone with time. 

Boon Corruptions seem to be further phased out in favour of bland boon removal, after already plenty reductions and removals across the board.

Blood's revival capabilities as unique Utility are going down the drain. 

 

..but hey, one blip of Aegis on Scourge now, with Serpent Siphon no longer being the most useless skill in the game. But I guess we spam out Barrier's now for boom (Alacrity) spam, rather than skillfully applying them before high pressure attacks/mechanics?

 

If you want Profession choice to largely just be a colour/theme picker, it might be time to add some mobility, active defenses, combo interactions and co. to the kit.

[doozer.7063]

MESMER

I personally don't mind the nerfed to chaos, this braindead traitline can be deleted imo. But if you do the effort to work on that traitline than just make it less braindead noobcarry instead making it just bad with low effort nerfs. For example an ICD on Auspicious Anguish makes it just more random/less consistent for the player and the oppopnent, and even less tactical as it was. Instead this low effort nerf of an ICD just do your job and rework the trait into something more active and tactical.  So that i as player can active and tactically work with that trait. Also how will it even work? Will it go on ICD even when i get disabled when not having any conditions? 

Why the heck you nerf focus???

Why you dont rework/nerf inspiration too? This traitline is even more braindead and unhealthy than chaos. I guess peepos in pve use it so you don't touch it...

Also you literally buff other classes which are already way more op and easier to play than a current condi mirage with 2 dodges would ever be (ele, warrior) but mesmer is the most nerfed. What a joke. You give some QoL to ele dagger offhand fire skill with wider hit angle but Mesmer mantras still need to strighly face the target  and even then often bug to some minor uneven ground stuff (no line of sight on a target right in front of you nose to nose loool)...

And how will MC now work when im not allowed to dodge while cced/ immob but still can cast skills while dodging. Do i still dodge on spot without the movement of a normal dodge or do i get a normal dodge roll animation back? If the first,  than you remove every pro side of the mirage mechanic without compensation and keeping all the downsides up. Since getting the second dodge back is not a compensation, its just reverting a bad low effort nerf (and mirage was not designed around one dodge, it is balanced around 2 not like vindi) and you did the one dodge nerf AFTER you already nerfed all aspects of mirage as ambushes from mesmer and clones, vigor uptime in mirageline and even in core traitlines etc. So that mirage with 2 dodges wasn't even meta anymore right before you removed the second dodge. Now you double nerf it even more into the ground.

No bias to see here. 

Removing corrupt on necro is another rofl. What are you guys smoking? You really wanna ruin gw2 and class identities, do you? Sadly no founder devs with game knowledge/ understanding and no class bias left to stop the madness it seems...

Edited June 9, 2023 by doozer.7063