Unpopular opinion

[Avatar.3568]

Double Moa, is kinda broke, i don't want that it gets deleted, but give the player something that got moaed, 50% endurence or so.
you can't do anything if you get double moad (moaed?).

single moa is fine and continuum split is fine, the combination is just to strong

[Irastira.8643]

I have all ways hated getting Moa'd.  It never really felt like I still had the chance to win.  Like, I hit them with a Silence, they can still dodge roll away.  Their buttons remain the same.  All of my skills get replaced by 5 new skills and I don't have the time to read anything or learn what anything does as I desperately try to keep myself alive hitting every button on the Keyboard trying to figure out which button is the new dodge key.

[Avatar.3568]

10 minutes ago, Irastira.8643 said:

I have all ways hated getting Moa'd.  It never really felt like I still had the chance to win.  Like, I hit them with a Silence, they can still dodge roll away.  Their buttons remain the same.  All of my skills get replaced by 5 new skills and I don't have the time to read anything or learn what anything does as I desperately try to keep myself alive hitting every button on the Keyboard trying to figure out which button is the new dodge key.

moa 5 is a bigger dodge and moa 2 is a leap

moa 3 is quite big dmg

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Moa had sort of an equivalent skill in Guild Wars 1: Blackout

Except in Guild Wars 1, using this skill also disabled your own skills, not just the opponent's. Moa would be far more balanced if it had a similar mechanic. It would also make its use far more tactical and situational, and require more team coordination.

[Goldilock.2584]

I just want to beable to jump in moa lmao

[Psycoprophet.8107]

All condition clear utility skills should remain in utility slot while in moa form and should remove the transformation, u use all ur clears and get moa'd that's on you, u save one or save the only one uve slotted in case u get moa'd...good on you.

[Downstate.4697]

Moa should be like 120s in pvp. It’s like the opposite of a res utility.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

9 hours ago, Irastira.8643 said:

I have all ways hated getting Moa'd.  It never really felt like I still had the chance to win.  Like, I hit them with a Silence, they can still dodge roll away.  Their buttons remain the same.  All of my skills get replaced by 5 new skills and I don't have the time to read anything or learn what anything does as I desperately try to keep myself alive hitting every button on the Keyboard trying to figure out which button is the new dodge key.

Dodge key is the same as always, #5 moa skill is a dash that also evades. The #2 is a leap but it is pretty slow. When the Mesmer moas you, be ready for their pistol shot follow-up (Magic Bullet, a stun). Also be aware of their sword 3 immobilize.

That's basically all you need to know.

Edited June 15, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

7 hours ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Moa had sort of an equivalent skill in Guild Wars 1: Blackout

Except in Guild Wars 1, using this skill also disabled your own skills, not just the opponent's. Moa would be far more balanced if it had a similar mechanic. It would also make its use far more tactical and situational, and require more team coordination.

It would be 100% utterly useless. GW1 is an entirely different game from GW2.

Edited June 15, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[doozer.7063]

Oh come on, we just had this. Boring... 

[JTGuevara.9018]

No no. You want unpopular? Delete it from the game.

Moa, in practice, is a CC that lasts for SIX SECONDS.

It is but another of these game mechanics that aged poorly over the years.

[Leonidrex.5649]

18 hours ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Moa had sort of an equivalent skill in Guild Wars 1: Blackout

Except in Guild Wars 1, using this skill also disabled your own skills, not just the opponent's. Moa would be far more balanced if it had a similar mechanic. It would also make its use far more tactical and situational, and require more team coordination.

I love this cringe take from boomers that played gw1.
gw1 is utterly alien game to gw2, same things DO NOT apply and wont be balanced the same way
if you make moa stum both me and my enemy for 6s, nobody would EVERY use that skill.
Look at kittening headbutt, 3s stun for 1s self stun, almost no cooldown and it extends berser/ gives full berserk.
and despite all that its still not op.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Leonidrex.5649

[Stand The Wall.6987]

fear the moa res

[Khalisto.5780]

Jumping moa is the only nerf we need

[Morwath.9817]

12 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I love this cringe take from boomers that played gw1.
gw1 is utterly alien game to gw2, same things DO NOT apply and wont be balanced the same way
if you make moa stum both me and my enemy for 6s, nobody would EVERY use that skill.
Look at kittening headbutt, 3s stun for 1s self stun, almost no cooldown and it extends berser/ gives full berserk.
and despite all that its still not op.

Stun is crap compared to Moa, because you can just stunbreak it. Imho Moa is fine, it's what Mesmers should do.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

15 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I love this cringe take from boomers that played gw1.
gw1 is utterly alien game to gw2, same things DO NOT apply and wont be balanced the same way
if you make moa stum both me and my enemy for 6s, nobody would EVERY use that skill.
Look at kittening headbutt, 3s stun for 1s self stun, almost no cooldown and it extends berser/ gives full berserk.
and despite all that its still not op.

Your missing the key reason why people make comparisons to gw1 in the first place.

 

gw1 is a well designed game. It is in fact the design of this game and it’s success that lead to us having a guild wars 2…which was originally supposed to be a “better” version then gw1, where you could jump and have more freedom to maneuver in 3 dimensions.

the problem: most of the good ideas that made gw1 good were not put into gw2 (I’d argue they carried over only its worst features). Go figure gw2 turned out to not be as good a game as gw1.

Edited June 16, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Kuma.1503]

6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Your missing the key reason why people make comparisons to gw1 in the first place.

 

gw1 is a well designed game. It is in fact the design of this game and it’s success that lead to us having a guild wars 2…which was originally supposed to be a “better” version then gw1, where you could jump and have more freedom to maneuver in 3 dimensions.

the problem: most of the good ideas that made gw1 good were not put into gw2 (I’d argue they carried over only its worst features). Go figure gw2 turned out to not be as good a game as gw1.

Gw1 didn't have playable Charr. Therefore objectively worse game. 

My logic is flawless and irrefutable. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

47 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Your missing the key reason why people make comparisons to gw1 in the first place.

 

gw1 is a well designed game. It is in fact the design of this game and it’s success that lead to us having a guild wars 2…which was originally supposed to be a “better” version then gw1, where you could jump and have more freedom to maneuver in 3 dimensions.

the problem: most of the good ideas that made gw1 good were not put into gw2 (I’d argue they carried over only its worst features). Go figure gw2 turned out to not be as good a game as gw1.

doesnt matter why they do them. they are all kitten since games are fundamentally different

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

It’s worth noting that Blackout could essentially be perma’d in gw1 (strung together at least 3 times consecutively) for an 18s shutdown.

the short cooldown and it’s tradeoff made it a good skill to use and also a fair skill to have in the game and some meta builds were based on taking it from what I remember.

MoA…and well…actual well designed tradeoffs are absent in gw2. Those tradeoffs in gw1 were critical for skills to be powerful and have impact because their well designed tradeoffs encouraged more nuanced gameplay. 
 

I always bring this up…but Frenzy is the gw1 equivalent to quickness…in gw1 frenzy could be perma’d…indefinitely forever because it had a duration longer than it’s cooldown. But you see it was not Op and you could make the argument that it was the most balanced skill in the history of the franchises. Why? Because you would take double damage when it was up. People had to use frenzy strategically (called stance canceling) where you couldn’t just CAMP Frenzy you had swap stances…saving it for a burst and switching to a stance when you became the target of attacks to something more defensive. It was very dynamic in that way encouraging all kinds of high level strategies…

no surprise blackout has similar properties and like mentioned earlier MOA and every other skill in this game don’t have these properties and when they did have tradeoffs they were poorly designed…designed in a way that punished people for taking skills rather than making those skills dynamic in their usage. Is it then a surprise that we have a game where spamming and no counter-play builds are the optimal strategy.

edit: it’s also worth mentioning, that MoA does have a tradeoff (the fact that MoA has some abilities you can use to defend yourself) and so MoA is one of the better designed skills in the game…so just putting it out there that MoA is designed a lot better then other skills. All it would take IMO is just some more love to the chicken transform…make it slightly more powerful so that defending players have some options to counterplay. 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Esufer.8762]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:20 PM, Downstate.4697 said:

Moa should be like 120s in pvp. It’s like the opposite of a res utility.

that's a pretty extreme duration tbh, not sure who would enjoy that 😉

[Morwath.9817]

8 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

that's a pretty extreme duration tbh, not sure who would enjoy that 😉

Mesmers? 🙈

[Esufer.8762]

1 hour ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Mesmers? 🙈

just picture the AT finals, 5v5 mesmers all in the KFC mosh pit for 2 minutes

[JTGuevara.9018]

17 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It’s worth noting that Blackout could essentially be perma’d in gw1 (strung together at least 3 times consecutively) for an 18s shutdown.

the short cooldown and it’s tradeoff made it a good skill to use and also a fair skill to have in the game and some meta builds were based on taking it from what I remember.

MoA…and well…actual well designed tradeoffs are absent in gw2. Those tradeoffs in gw1 were critical for skills to be powerful and have impact because their well designed tradeoffs encouraged more nuanced gameplay. 
 

I always bring this up…but Frenzy is the gw1 equivalent to quickness…in gw1 frenzy could be perma’d…indefinitely forever because it had a duration longer than it’s cooldown. But you see it was not Op and you could make the argument that it was the most balanced skill in the history of the franchises. Why? Because you would take double damage when it was up. People had to use frenzy strategically (called stance canceling) where you couldn’t just CAMP Frenzy you had swap stances…saving it for a burst and switching to a stance when you became the target of attacks to something more defensive. It was very dynamic in that way encouraging all kinds of high level strategies…

no surprise blackout has similar properties and like mentioned earlier MOA and every other skill in this game don’t have these properties and when they did have tradeoffs they were poorly designed…designed in a way that punished people for taking skills rather than making those skills dynamic in their usage. Is it then a surprise that we have a game where spamming and no counter-play builds are the optimal strategy.

 

Yes, Frenzy is the equivalent to quickness. However, you're missing one key thing. gw2 is an action game. People can dodge and move away (if their class allows it and has the skills). The tradeoffs are essentially meaningless since they don't trade the one key thing that would actually be costly: movement. And you simply cannot trade movement away in an action game! People WILL complain.

Take that same Frenzy skill and put it in gw2 and it wouldn't even matter. Warriors (thanks to greatsword) are used to being glass cannons anyway! Because we realize that movement matters.

18 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

edit: it’s also worth mentioning, that MoA does have a tradeoff (the fact that MoA has some abilities you can use to defend yourself) and so MoA is one of the better designed skills in the game…so just putting it out there that MoA is designed a lot better then other skills. All it would take IMO is just some more love to the chicken transform…make it slightly more powerful so that defending players have some options to counterplay.

See, this is what I'm talking about. This is a meaningless tradeoff. Because it doesn't trade away anything substantial for the mesmer, like movement. You also don't mention (actually nobody did...) a debilitating effect: it disables the right half of the skill bar.  In practice, it cripples a class for 6 full seconds.

Well-designed skill, my foot.

[Khalisto.5780]

I'll say it again, the only nerf moa needs is it being able to jump.