Riba.3271 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) True endgame for individual players and guilds was to choose and build server of their dreams. It seems devs have forgotten this part. Now we will just choose our guild, and that is it. Of course guilds have their problems and drama too but ultimately the threat of being kicked will stop any real confortation between 2 individuals or groups. It saddens me that we are entering randomized matchmaking where progression doesn't exist. At this point WvW will just be running on habits of people, rather than what actually made the same people invested into the gamemode. If WvW was released in this state, would it have lasted beyond couple of months? Maybe it is time to accept the fact that not everyone wants to be on exact same kind of server? At least they will get rid of complaints when no one cares anymore. I can already see them going: "Successful change, no negative feedback and populations are balanced" when in reality everyone is just botting around and not feeling or doing much. How is this better than people experiencing lot of good and bad times? Sitting on couch doing nothing doesn't feel bad but you won't do it for long or look forward to it. This is the WvW we are getting: a couch facing empty wall. Edited June 20, 2023 by Riba.3271 9 1 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 I believe that there are more functions that will be released that will fix the issue(s) you have described where guilds will make their own alliances with other guilds somehow. I have blind faith it seems. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkidu.5937 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said: build server of their dreams As I wrote in the other thread: 500 hardcore players x 4 hours playtime per day = more than 80 people online on average all day long 🫠 So, yes the endgame will be to game the new system hard and build a server of your dreams 🎉 because now its truly your server (alliance), players now decide to let the pro's in and keep the casuals out and the only limit now is 500 accounts, play hours will not be taken into account anymore and you don't even have to organize, time and pay a mass transfer 🤡 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said: True endgame Everyone knows that the true endgame in GW2 is Fashion Wars. 2 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 People and entire guilds migrate from server to server with some degree of frequency. When I capture an objective the host server gets credit, not mine. Every few weeks my server is paired with an entirely new group of people and guilds....who might have been my enemies and rivals for weeks and months prior. Restructuring isn't taking anything away. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johje Holan.4607 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, enkidu.5937 said: and the only limit now is 500 accounts, play hours will not be taken into account anymore The limit is 500 players for an Alliance. But playhours will be taken into account when forming the Teams. (Not that this will necessarily be better than current linking team formation necessarily.) 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babana.7521 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 There are no progression right now either. Hence why we need : 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Riba.3271 said: True endgame for individual players and guilds was to choose and build server of their dreams. It seems devs have forgotten this part... For me, personally, server pride was never really a thing. In my last WvW guild, the guild leaders were not interested in alliances or running with other guilds. Some toxic drama between guilds in the past made them prefer to go on their own. So our WvW squad ran as a roaming/havoc squad without much interaction with other folks on that server. The leaders of my current WvW guild are much more social but their friendships range far beyond our one server. Yes, they are friendly with the other guilds on our server but they also know and like people on other servers. Heck, we even have some frenemy guilds on other servers. Those are guilds on other servers that like our guild leaders but we will still fight each other when matched up against each other. In this beta we ended up in the same world with some of the friendly guilds on other servers. It's been fun being able to run with them during these two weeks. We were matched up against one of our frenemy guilds last week and we spent a lot of time battling each other across all the maps. Those were some good fights. This beta gave me a glimpse of what the Alliance system might actually look like. I saw the possibilities of an endgame where folks could choose and build the Alliance of their dreams. Those possibilities looked good to me and I'm actually hopeful about what my guild's future Alliance will be. 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Call Me Tim.2319 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Anet let the thrill of wvw die a long time ago. Alliances won’t do anything to make things worse. As for comments about allied guilds keeping out the casual players I know there are many like me that don’t give a hoot. I lost the desire to deal with the stress of comp fights a long time ago. I was born to roam and havoc. Nothing, for me, will change. I’m an old timer… now and then I latch onto a squad and actually comp up and run with them for an evening. It’s all my choice and I love it that way. That’s MY endgame. The rest is cybernoise. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Guys, server pride has nothing to do with choosing a server and communicating people around you to let you have a decent timezone. Lot of us have transferred at some point and that doesn't make us worse people. Servers are not important for server pride as that is just some emotional baggage. But for the fact that it gives players influence outside their guild. They can train the pugs without them resetting every 2 months, and try to aim to be in tier with suitable enemies. For example historically GvG guilds transferred to be in servers in tier 3 so there is lot of activity and they can still play primetime without massive queues. To summarize, having influence over allies and enemies, while having systems in place to limit server populations, would be ideal. Unfortunately with server linkings, both allies and enemies became very random, and there were no systems to limit server populations (Full+Full pairings were already at joke level) Of course since linking system was such garbage, people are thinking alliances aren't that bad, but there was much better system in the past where you had choice of activity (Higher/Lower tiers), ability to improve your surroundings and stability in timezones. It just had too many servers as you can't compare game on release to a game 5 years in. Edited June 21, 2023 by Riba.3271 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkidu.5937 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 16 hours ago, Johje Holan.4607 said: 21 hours ago, enkidu.5937 said: and the only limit now is 500 accounts, play hours will not be taken into account anymore The limit is 500 players for an Alliance. But playhours will be taken into account when forming the Teams. (Not that this will necessarily be better than current linking team formation necessarily.) Sure. Thats why you can now create your own server heaven. You can keep casuals out forever. Just stack 500 players that play A LOT, no limit 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said: So our WvW squad ran as a roaming/havoc squad without much interaction with other folks on that server. My opinion is that this you mentioned is the first problem of alliances. Because with WR they are still the servers playing against each other. So the alliance should have awareness of the server assigned to it, it should have more time to know and build together with the other alliances or guilds, to design a common action that involves everyone on the server. 12 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said: The leaders of my current WvW guild are much more social but their friendships range far beyond our one server. Yes, they are friendly with the other guilds on our server but they also know and like people on other servers. Heck, we even have some frenemy guilds on other servers. Those are guilds on other servers that like our guild leaders but we will still fight each other when matched up against each other. And this, again in my personal opinion, is the second problem of alliances that you mentioned. Because WWW is always three-way. And your friendship will always influence your action, up to 2v1. There is no point in denying it. Especially because with WR you have made the server concept sterile. There's no reason to build content in reference to your temporary server. And these last words of mine, could be the public enemy number 1 for WWW that we will have in the future. Many of us here on the forum, report criticism of WR, precisely because I love this game mode. On the other hand, there should be someone who collects criticism, checks them, cross-checks data, draws up statistical coefficients and information. so as to come here and provide answers that reassure us all. Because you will know that the development has carefully considered many things that have been indicated. and the work proceeds under control. Edited June 21, 2023 by Mabi black.1824 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Ya Yeah.7381 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I'll take this all day every day over the current linking system. Current linking system is just not good with stacking, and no control over who you get linked with. It is too soon to say if the new system will be less fun endgame, then it is now, but I really can't imagine it being too much worse than its current state of being. I'm just wondering what happens when you win a matchup in the new system, will there be actual rewards for winning or is just going to be another play for fun, so nobody gets hurt feelings system. A little competition goes a long way to making things more fun as well as building character. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leger.3724 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 The population is so low that people choosing will be the death knell of the game mode. Somehow you will still blame Arena Net if that were to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Leger.3724 said: The population is so low that people choosing will be the death knell of the game mode. Somehow you will still blame Arena Net if that were to happen. Well, queues come with commanders, and alliances definitely won't incentivise commanders to tag up more. More like they will incentivise commanders to tag down more. They will just focus on their guild. Nevertheless, I disagree with your statement since EU server pairings have multiple queues a day, outside the weirdo unlinked server tier 5 they chose to keep. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said: My opinion is that this you mentioned is the first problem of alliances. Because with WR they are still the servers playing against each other. So the alliance should have awareness of the server assigned to it, it should have more time to know and build together with the other alliances or guilds, to design a common action that involves everyone on the server. And this, again in my personal opinion, is the second problem of alliances that you mentioned. Because WWW is always three-way. And your friendship will always influence your action, up to 2v1. There is no point in denying it. Especially because with WR you have made the server concept sterile. There's no reason to build content in reference to your temporary server. And these last words of mine, could be the public enemy number 1 for WWW that we will have in the future... Mabi, I didn't get much sleep last night and my brain is kinda foggy. So if I am misunderstanding what you are saying, please excuse me. The first problem you are pointing out is, I think, that under WR, the worlds will be changed so often - on a weekly basis iirc - that an alliance won't have time to get to know the other alliances, individual guilds, and solo players that they will be sharing a temporary world with. If that is the point you are making, I can't argue with it. I was looking beyond my guild to the possibilities of an alliance and I was liking what I saw. It seems you are looking beyond alliances to possible issues with the very temporary worlds that will house several alliances, some individual guilds, and any number of solo players, worlds that will be reshuffled on a fairly frequent basis. And you are not liking the problems you see with that. I think you are pointing to some real problems that do need to be worked out. And your second point, that personal likes and dislikes will affect a group's actions in WvW, is also something I can't argue with. That happens under the current system and I don't expect it to change when alliances are actually implemented. This one I'm not sure can be changed though. People will act on their likes and dislikes. That's the way we all are. Edited June 21, 2023 by Chichimec.9364 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Chichimec.9364 said: Mabi, I didn't get much sleep last night and my brain is kinda foggy. So if I am misunderstanding what you are saying, please excuse me. The first problem you are pointing out is, I think, that under WR, the worlds will be changed so often - on a weekly basis iirc - that an alliance won't have time to get to know the other alliances, individual guilds, and solo players that they will be sharing a temporary world with. If that is the point you are making, I can't argue with it. I was looking beyond my guild to the possibilities of an alliance and I was liking what I saw. It seems you are looking beyond alliances to possible issues with the very temporary worlds that will house several alliances, some individual guilds, and any number of solo players, worlds that will be reshuffled on a fairly frequent basis. And you are not liking the problems you see with that. I think you are pointing to some real problems that do need to be worked out. And your second point, that personal likes and dislikes will affect a group's actions in WvW, is also something I can't argue with. That happens under the current system and I don't expect it to change when alliances are actually implemented. This one I'm not sure can be changed though. People will act on their likes and dislikes. That's the way we all are. The part in bold, matches will change with the +1/-1 per week but the server that was created with the Alliances/Guild/Solos remain intact for months potentially. I don't think the plan was to resort the server weekly if that was what was meant. So people will get to see regular faces for a set time. Just after the 'x' weeks, some posts have been using 8 as we have now, then the only chance of the same familiar faces are if they have been added to your Alliance. Where as today half of the people you see after relinks will still roughly be the same. I think Alliances that are not full to start with will end up moving around gathering more like minded people as time goes along creating mini-servers till they are full. After that happens and there are enough of these mini-servers than maybe we consider expanding the numbers if needed so that Alliances can match up against full WvW guilds that will be on the size of the Alliances themselves to start with. Being a server pride resigned to the WR project, I think Mabi's point was without servers than that rivalry you had against a server won't be the same as soon as the resorting occurs. Example the Seven Pines you just fought for the last 8 weeks is not the same server after the next resort so there is no rivalry. I think though those frienemies just move down to the Alliance (if visibile somewhere in the UI) or just the guilds (which we do see today already) or even the havocs or roamers. We just lose, oh, its Mag, they are going to cloud, oh its BG, they are going to try and hold their thirds......kind of relationships we have today. I think linking has already helped people start to get that in their heads. These betas are kind of forcing the idea into those that haven't started moving their minds in that direction of hey you can't just live here, you need to head on down to town and shake some babies and kiss some hands if you want to hang out with the town. Mabi, if I misinterpreted please correct me. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said: The part in bold, matches will change with the +1/-1 per week but the server that was created with the Alliances/Guild/Solos remain intact for months potentially. I don't think the plan was to resort the server weekly if that was what was meant. So people will get to see regular faces for a set time. Just after the 'x' weeks, some posts have been using 8 as we have now, then the only chance of the same familiar faces are if they have been added to your Alliance. Where as today half of the people you see after relinks will still roughly be the same... Thanks Grimm. I did misunderstand the weekly reset and I appreciate you getting the correct info out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said: Thanks Grimm. I did misunderstand the weekly reset and I appreciate you getting the correct info out there. Lol, my friend, don't assume what I write is 100% either, betas may make fools of us all. We haven't or I haven't seen them state yet what the resorting time frame is. But I hadn't seen weekly so wanted to share. As always good hunting to you and yours! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 As a reference when I was picturing an extended amount of time between resorts some of that comes from this one: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-world-restructuring-and-the-future-of-world-vs-world/ "Matchmaking, when teams are destroyed and recreated, occurs at the beginning of each season. The term “season” in the context of WvW describes the period of time between each matchmaking event. The length of a season is not yet finalized, but could be up to eight weeks long." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) On 6/21/2023 at 7:30 PM, Chichimec.9364 said: Mabi, I didn't get much sleep last night and my brain is kinda foggy. So if I am misunderstanding what you are saying, please excuse me. The first problem you are pointing out is, I think, that under WR, the worlds will be changed so often - on a weekly basis iirc - that an alliance won't have time to get to know the other alliances, individual guilds, and solo players that they will be sharing a temporary world with. If that is the point you are making, I can't argue with it. I was looking beyond my guild to the possibilities of an alliance and I was liking what I saw. It seems you are looking beyond alliances to possible issues with the very temporary worlds that will house several alliances, some individual guilds, and any number of solo players, worlds that will be reshuffled on a fairly frequent basis. And you are not liking the problems you see with that. I think you are pointing to some real problems that do need to be worked out. And your second point, that personal likes and dislikes will affect a group's actions in WvW, is also something I can't argue with. That happens under the current system and I don't expect it to change when alliances are actually implemented. This one I'm not sure can be changed though. People will act on their likes and dislikes. That's the way we all are. dear chichimen, you hit the point perfectly. the only one i feel like adding is that if somehow we get something around the new seasonal/temporary servers ,so that they take on a meaning, maybe, when you are faced with an enemy/friend or enemy/favorite you can overcome your personal involvement, because your content your action is referred to your seasonal server. with wr, with sever meaningless, your action will definitely be influenced by your enemy/friend and you end up in a 2vs1. mind you, nothing wrong with 2v1 in a three way game. indeed sometimes it is essential to make the game more interesting. Edited June 23, 2023 by Mabi black.1824 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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