Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Omega.6801]

"Legendary will always be BiS"...."technically still true, we just invented a new slots amirite LMAO ROFL LOLOLOOOLOLOLOOLL"
Thanks ANet for respecting the time and effort of your most dedicated players.

[MashMash.1645]

And if you don't buy the expansion, you can't use the new system, but still get your runes nerfed.

This is wild.

[Vidit.7108]

IMO it goes a step beyond rune reworking if an entirely new item replaces the functionality of runes AND you have to go and re-earn that functionality through new content. If they aren't giving players boxes with relics in them equal to the number of 6 runes they have then for the first time since the game came out invalidated pieces of player gear. There has been 6 tier slot reworks that changed what the rune did but this is like replacing the 6th slot with basically nothing. Even if the 6th slot were given new stats that isn't why anyone made or obtained the runes in the first place in most cases. 
Monk and rebirth runes are basically the same stats but I specifically earned one over another for it's 6th tier effect. This isn't really like when they added infusion slots because this is a totally different equipment slot. Also what is exactly the point of having infusions with stats if runes do the same thing now?

[Aurisai.3416]

Yes, this change makes me pretty upset as I've also put the effort into crafting the legendary runes.

Honestly this sort of logic is such a slippery slope it's unreal.. This change will leave runes as little more than another stat buff with a slightly different mechanic to infusions. The 6th rune bonus is what makes the rune set valuable imo. What's to stop them from splitting off legendary weapons next into 3 different components that add up to the same stats we have now in the next expansion? 

I saw someone saying that people that still use regular runes would actually be worse off than people using legendary runes, and frankly, no they wouldn't. To craft legendary runes is many times the cost of the most expensive runes on the market. Many veteran players won't craft them as they feel the cost isn't justified. To justify crafting the runes in the first place you have to be enthusiastic about trying out different builds regularly. To introduce this new stat mechanic to upend that ability now is just a betrayal of those players that invested into the legendary runes to start with.

[HelveticaScenario.6485]

One of the things I love(d) about GW2 is that they promised at the start that they wouldn't invalidate your gear, and they've stuck to that pretty well. This is a direct violation of that, and sets a very bad precedent..

This feels like a huge f-you to to folks (like myself) who worked hard for a set of legendary runes so we could easily change builds and gear up extra toons without having to ever farm/buy runes again. Now, we have to farm relics just to recreate our existing builds. It's a straight up QoL regression.

It's also taking functionality away from players without lege runes, as they will have to farm relics just to bring their existing gear up to the level is was at before, but this is a one-time thing, and IMO it's somewhat compensated by the minor QoL improvement that relics give people without lege rune sets.

I don't dislike the relics system itself, I just think they haven't fully thought through the impact on existing players and the precedent it sets. Making the relic slot function as a lege if you have 6 lege runes seems like it would largely fix the problem.

[Caitmonster.9036]

I can only hope that they do plan to reimburse those who crafted legendary runes and are just being quiet about it. Though being silent breeds a lot of discontent and conspiracy theories in the meantime.

Unless you unlock them account-wide by crafting/binding them and it gives you a pool to pick from sort of like unlocking various PVP amulets and rune sets, then it might not be so bad. But right now this is giving me bot core vibes and I'm not feelin' it.

[Eclipsiste.3251]

27 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

IMO it goes a step beyond rune reworking if an entirely new item replaces the functionality of runes AND you have to go and re-earn that functionality through new content. If they aren't giving players boxes with relics in them equal to the number of 6 runes they have then for the first time since the game came out invalidated pieces of player gear. There has been 6 tier slot reworks that changed what the rune did but this is like replacing the 6th slot with basically nothing. Even if the 6th slot were given new stats that isn't why anyone made or obtained the runes in the first place in most cases. 
Monk and rebirth runes are basically the same stats but I specifically earned one over another for it's 6th tier effect. This isn't really like when they added infusion slots because this is a totally different equipment slot. Also what is exactly the point of having infusions with stats if runes do the same thing now?

A complete set of leg runes gives you access to all runes. Current and future ones. It's going to need much more than 6 boxes of relics to compensate for what they're going to take away from us. It needs to have the same end result: have access to all relics, current and future, WITHOUT needing to craft or farm. The grinding part was done when we crafted those legendary runes that were supposed to be the ultimate QoL in this game.

 

[Kumbaya.4689]

Just now, Eclipsiste.3251 said:

A complete set of leg runes gives you access to all runes. Current and future ones. It's going to need much more than 6 boxes of relics to compensate for what they're going to take away from us. It needs to have the same end result: have access to all relics, current and future, WITHOUT needing to craft or farm. The grinding part was done when we crafted those legendary runes that were supposed to be the ultimate QoL in this game.

Exactly my thought. Present and FUTURE releases must be considered.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:16 AM, Falson.5284 said:

Will Relics invalidate legendary runes?

Not for me!  I'm quite happy with this change, and am looking forward to finishing up my legendary runes before expac launch... Esp if enough people hold off crafting theirs and make the mats cheaper, lol.

I like that every rune will have a t6 stat bonus instead of just some.

I LOVE the versatility of mixing and matching runes with relics.  If I want a minor precision with major ferocity, I won't also be summoning a golem in battle unless I choose that relic.  If I want to proc a magnetic aura at the start of combat, my rune doesn't have to have primary toughness.  And, so on. That's fan-kitten-tastic!

Not to mention this opens the door to more easily implemented stat combinations in the future (easier to create new runes = more chance for new runes to be created).

Given I still have two filled bank tabs devoted to stacks of runes, once I can give those up for my legendaries I can easily devote space to relics until legendary versions of those are inevitably implemented.  If for some reason they're not implemented, at worst I'd still call this change a lateral move.

I do a lot of build experimentations (because kitten the metas), and the customization this will bring has me so delighted rn.

So, haters bring on your confused emoji reactions... your raised eyebrows shall feed my soul! 😈

~EpWa

Edited June 29, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[Mattsta.8694]

The runes only being stats is also weird. They removed the jewel slot from the ascended jewelry and just increased the amount of base stats on ascended jewelry. Why not just get rid of runes and increase the stats on ascended/legendary armors? Can then have a legendary relic that in some way refunds legendary rune holders (like it needing 7 of X and with the patch it gives players one of X for each legendary rune in their armory).

I don't think the idea of splitting the stats and 6th rune bonus is an altogether bad idea, but this feels like a clunky way to change a system that has been around since launch and has had a legendary version for a good while.

[Essence Snow.3194]

54 minutes ago, MashMash.1645 said:

And if you don't buy the expansion, you can't use the new system, but still get your runes nerfed.

This is wild.

I didn't even think about that. I have a couple of paid core accounts that I actively play.....they may get nerfed.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Essence Snow.3194

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, MashMash.1645 said:

And if you don't buy the expansion, you can't use the new system, but still get your runes nerfed.

This is wild.

Nah, I don't think that's correct. They'll introduce the system with the release of the expansion -as in they'll release it in the same patch, but the system itself will become the part of the core game.

[Infinity.1087]

Let's hear what the Devs have to say about this first. 

I get that their initial trailer release is meant to hype players up to get the new expansion so they can't address every detail out there. So hopefully, they will shed more light on this later and confirm whether there will be some sort of compensation for legendary rune holders or not. 

Please share your opinion on this topic as much as possible to get more attention on this. I suspect there aren't too many veterans who have a full set of legendary runes out there so every post matters.

[Blue.3582]

19 minutes ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

Not for me!  I'm quite happy with this change, and am looking forward to finishing up my legendary runes before expac launch... Esp if enough people hold off crafting theirs and make the mats cheaper, lol.

I like that every rune will have a t6 stat bonus instead of just some.

I LOVE the versatility of mixing and matching runes with relics.  If I want a minor precision with major ferocity, I won't also be summoning a golem in battle unless I choose that relic.  If I want to proc a magnetic aura at the start of combat, my rune doesn't have to have primary toughness.  And, so on. That's fan-kitten-tastic!

Not to mention this opens the door to more easily implemented stat combinations in the future (easier to create new runes = more chance for new runes to be created).

Given I still have two filled bank tabs devoted to stacks of runes, once I can give those up for my legendaries I can easily devote space to relics until legendary versions of those are inevitably implemented.  If for some reason they're not implemented, at worst I'd still call this change a lateral move.

I do a lot of build experimentations (because kitten metas), and the customization this will bring has me so delighted rn.

So, haters bring on your confused emoji reactions... your raised eyebrows shall feed my soul! 😈

~EpWa

I also love ther versatility of the new system. There is nothing wrong with that.

It's very cool that you can have minor precision with major ferocity without summoning a golem but players that crafted 6+ legendary runes can now no longer use their runes to summon a golem without having to craft golemancer (and all the other) relics on all their characters.
This is the real issue. The system itself is a good change but it removes an essential feature from expensive items that players farmed literal months for. People are not advocating for relics to not be introduced. They just want security that they didn't spend months of their lives for something that is now gone/less valuable.

[voltaicbore.8012]

4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I hope they do something like, equipping a full set of legendary runes lets you choose a relic bonus without a relic, or something...

I think this is the logical solution.

I, however, am safe either way, because I procrastinated on making the runes thus far. At worst, I will not have experienced a "we're taking away a cool thing your grinded items used to do, you can grind a whole new thing to get it back".

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 hour ago, Omega.6801 said:

"Legendary will always be BiS"...."technically still true, we just invented a new slots amirite LMAO ROFL LOLOLOOOLOLOLOOLL"
Thanks ANet for respecting the time and effort of your most dedicated players.

There should be a way to get them in OW.

So casuals "get cheated " there too ,, and understand your pain 😛

Edited June 28, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Omega.6801]

3 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

There should be a way to get them in OW.

So casuals "get cheated " there too ,, and understand your pain 😛

Definitely.
Time to start the "Where's my legendary relic from fishing and auto-attacking world bosses?"-threads.

[Vegeta.2563]

8 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

There should be a way to get them in OW.

So casuals "get cheated " there too ,, and understand your pain 😛

Drawing a blank... what is OW?  Cuz wiki abbreviations doesn't have it lol

[Meva.8327]

13 minutes ago, Vegeta.2563 said:

Drawing a blank... what is OW?  Cuz wiki abbreviations doesn't have it lol

Open World, meaning easy PvE (no raids, no strikes, no fractals).

Edited June 28, 2023 by Meva.8327

[Kumbaya.4689]

13 minutes ago, Vegeta.2563 said:

Drawing a blank... what is OW?  Cuz wiki abbreviations doesn't have it lol

"Ogrewatch" (Cut), obviously! 🙃

[WithoutAssumption.7936]

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

There should be a way to get them in OW.

So casuals "get cheated " there too ,, and understand your pain 😛

You... can already?

Unless I'm mistake, come SotO the only legendary slots that won't have an open-world focused option are the rings and backpiece.  Legendary Runes are are almost 100% buyable.  The only stuff you can't get from the trading post are spirit shards and obsidian shards.

Although if I had known this change was coming, I wouldn't have bothered with them and would have thrown that gold towards something else.  They had some use since 6 pc bonuses were pretty important and you could do some interesting stuff with them, now they're just a chestpiece worth of stats you can change for 6 times the price of a legendary chestpiece.

[Dualumina.1760]

The wording of the announcement does seem to imply that a legendary version is on the way.

It's not impossible that having a full rune set will be the key to unlocking a leggy relic when the time comes, similar to those who want Twice Told Legend needing two of the same legendary.

This change does seem to make having a legendary relic more valuable than having 6-7 leggy runes, hence my inclination to think that owners of leggy runes will get a shortcut to the relic.

I wouldn't be surprised if folks who had multiple sets of the same legendary armour weight felt this annoyance back when the armoury was released, but as someone who won't have to feel unbridled disdain for Nightmare runes again, I'm not against this change.

[Meva.8327]

2 hours ago, Dualumina.1760 said:

The wording of the announcement does seem to imply that a legendary version is on the way.

Wishful thinking, but I do hope it is the case.

IF there is a legendary Relic at lauch AND IF those players who have crafted 6 Legendary Runes have quick access to this Legendary Relic then it is perfectly fine.

Very big IFs, I am afraid. But we can dream.

[Dapper Shark.4958]

I dont have any points that help close this debate but to be clear Im on the side of legendary relics being a intresting change as long as there is legendary relic given or some reimbursment of pepole that are loosing the benifit of the extra 6th slot effect and have 6/7 legendary runes.

[Eclipsiste.3251]

3 hours ago, Meva.8327 said:

Wishful thinking, but I do hope it is the case.

IF there is a legendary Relic at lauch AND IF those players who have crafted 6 Legendary Runes have quick access to this Legendary Relic then it is perfectly fine.

Very big IFs, I am afraid. But we can dream.

Access should not be quick, but AUTOMATIC. Once again: for every current AND future relics.

The relic idea is great, don't get me wrong, but should not be imposed to the detriment of players who trusted the leg runes system.

It would be a very bad sign if Anet engaged on the road of making people farm again to re-obtain a feature that already needed months of grinding in the first place. That would mean every single piece of gear could be randomly split / modified to force players to farm again.... It's a cheap tactic and the sign of a studio that can't find any other mean to keep their base audience playing...

I've been enjoying GW2 since year 1... My wife is playing too. We both have 16K+ hours playing (granted some players have much more, but we both do have jobs 😄). We're also supporting the game, buying gems on a regular basis, pre-ordering all expansions... So believe me, what I'm writing here are the thoughts of 2 long-time players and GW2 lovers, not random raging. And we're both holding pre-ordering this one until we have a clear answer by Anet about this leg runes possible ruining.

The fact is legendary armory is PERFECT. It's one of the most awesome features I've seen in all my gaming years, every games included. I can play whatever I want, whenever I want. Isn't this the "awesom-est" feature?

I've been having a blast since the leg armory release, testing lots of builds on the fly, changing gear... Playing random non-viable builds just for fun, swapping runes, confirming after a couple of hours that they were really terrible 😆 ... Changing stats and build to fit the needs of my squad in WvW... It's perfect FREEDOM and FUN.

My point: this ultimate flexibility made playing GW2 a 100% fun experience. Why take the risk to ruin this now?

I'm not against farming and grinding, it is at the core of any MMO gameplay, but Anet had been cleverer than competitors 'til now. It's OK when peeps have to farm for something new, not to compensate for being robbed of something we already had. That would basically feel like a punishment for believing in what was said years ago about the endgame nature of the leg armory.

Years after years leading to more account based and less character tied gear was a great idea. The leg armory is the pinnacle of this.... Yet they seem to want to ruin it. Jade Bot was already a chip in the building... Back to character-tied items so close to leg armory release... WHY?

Anet, please don't go this way. We play GW2 because it's beautiful and, most of all, FUN. We're OK with dealing with the less fun parts because in the end there's the satisfaction of reaching goals, achievements, the ultimate gear. Legendary runes were the ultimate QoL part of completing builds. We trusted the fact that this would not change and invested a lot of our time in not-so-fun grinding for this. Finishing the set is such a satisfaction. Please don't ruin this, and don't betray our trust in the fact that making the game great and fun is your prime objective.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Eclipsiste.3251