why less stuff?

[enigmatic.3576]

1 hour ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

It's literally $25 bucks, that's not a lot of money and the devs need to be able to buy groceries. They literally sell skins in the gem store that cost 20 bucks and somehow this is too little content for 5 more bucks? get real.

Would you may $25 for the Gyala Delves episode?  It's literally $25 bucks, that's not a lot of money and the devs need to be able to buy groceries. They literally sell skins in the gem store that cost 20 bucks.

Your post is an example of either not understanding what the complaint is and/or being out of touch.  Many people want equitable value for what they're spending their money on.  It's okay if that doesn't matter to you but don't go and dismiss their complaints with a nonsensical comparison to skins.

Edited July 16, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[Bankrotas.8215]

5 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

but amount of new content in hot is more then twice of soto. Professions, lege, raids and more all were introduced in hot first time.

I'm not saying anything about amount, I'm saying it's not 25 vs 40 situation.

[Endilbiach.4132]

Please refer to the Spring 2023 Studio Update: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-spring-2023/

It helps answer your questions.  To sum up however, they're completely changing their content production model as a studio.  Average of 1 expansion a year instead of every 2 to 4 years, with content coming out in stages.  They'll be smaller in scale and replace the Living World model completely.

As for why: more steady and reliable income stream is very good for them.  Devs gotta eat, Anet has to keep NCSOFT from getting grouchy with them, so on and so on.  And for people complaining about the content or lack thereof, we haven't actually seen it yet, so take a deep breath and let's see what actually comes down the pipe.

And yeah, there's gonna be stuff that needs to be fixed when it first comes out.  There always is.  And it usually gets fixed.

[enigmatic.3576]

4 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Please refer to the Spring 2023 Studio Update: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-spring-2023/

It helps answer your questions.  To sum up however, they're completely changing their content production model as a studio.  Average of 1 expansion a year instead of every 2 to 4 years, with content coming out in stages.  They'll be smaller in scale and replace the Living World model completely.

As for why: more steady and reliable income stream is very good for them.  Devs gotta eat, Anet has to keep NCSOFT from getting grouchy with them, so on and so on.  And for people complaining about the content or lack thereof, we haven't actually seen it yet, so take a deep breath and let's see what actually comes down the pipe.

And yeah, there's gonna be stuff that needs to be fixed when it first comes out.  There always is.  And it usually gets fixed.

Are we going to use this statement for every single release?  If the DLC turns out to be at the quality of Gyala Delve,  and people start questioning the content in the DLC after that, are you going to post the same thing again (and again and again and again)?

As for stuff needing to be fixed, that's a given.  However, too many things needing to be fixed doesn't present an issue which EoD was plagued of.  Almost every single map meta event and collection had at least one progression stopping bug.  These fixes, unfortunately, will not resolve the lack of content relatively to other expansions when taking into consideration the cost/value.

[Poormany.4507]

5 hours ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

Would you may $25 for the Gyala Delves episode?  It's literally $25 bucks, that's not a lot of money and the devs need to be able to buy groceries. They literally sell skins in the gem store that cost 20 bucks.

Your post is an example of either not understanding what the complaint is and/or being out of touch.  Many people want equitable value for what they're spending their money on.  It's okay if that doesn't matter to you but don't go and dismiss their complaints with a nonsensical comparison to skins.

That's comparing $25 for a single LW episode to $25 for a full expac (Not a good comparison).

Considering many MMOs charge $10+ for monthly subscriptions, $25 for a mini-expac is a very reasonable price imo.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[enigmatic.3576]

5 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

That's comparing $25 for a single LW episode to $25 for a full expac (Not a good comparison).

Considering many MMOs charge $10+ for monthly subscriptions, $25 for a mini-expac is a very reasonable price imo.

You're missing the point.  They were dismissing complaints using the cost of skins as a basis so I used it against them.  If feel that $25 is not a lot of money, and people spend nearly that much for skins, clearly they would have no issues spending that much on that single episode.

It doesn't matter what other MMOs charge as they all provide different quality and amount of content.  What you do compare the DLC to is previous expansions such as PoF and EoD which both sold for $30.  The DLC only has TWO maps, and if the story content is at the same level as PoF and EoD for those maps, you're ~83% of the cost of an expansion for half the content.  Great value.

[Linken.6345]

52 minutes ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

Are we going to use this statement for every single release?  If the DLC turns out to be at the quality of Gyala Delve,  and people start questioning the content in the DLC after that, are you going to post the same thing again (and again and again and again)?

As for stuff needing to be fixed, that's a given.  However, too many things needing to be fixed doesn't present an issue which EoD was plagued of.  Almost every single map meta event and collection had at least one progression stopping bug.  These fixes, unfortunately, will not resolve the lack of content relatively to other expansions when taking into consideration the cost/value.

I mean if you want another example that never got fixed try the meta on Domain of Kourna.

So yea Anet already set down a precedent that they dont go back and fix rushed content.

[rotten.9753]

20 hours ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

To be fair, if we take inflation into account 40$ in 2015 for HoT would be about 50$ in 2023 , so 25$ for half the content would be appropriate price.

And I'm not paying more because the extra options have mandatory char slot expansion, which I consider no sale option.

HoT was 50$/45€ at launch, with inflation it would be about 65$.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:23 PM, enigmatic.3576 said:

You're missing the point.  They were dismissing complaints using the cost of skins as a basis so I used it against them.  If feel that $25 is not a lot of money, and people spend nearly that much for skins, clearly they would have no issues spending that much on that single episode.

It doesn't matter what other MMOs charge as they all provide different quality and amount of content.  What you do compare the DLC to is previous expansions such as PoF and EoD which both sold for $30.  The DLC only has TWO maps, and if the story content is at the same level as PoF and EoD for those maps, you're ~83% of the cost of an expansion for half the content.  Great value.

The reason I brought up skin costs is because you have to look at the general cost of goods per man hour put into it.  Inflation is rising, the studio was sliced in two probably before much of this expansion was even worked on, and to be honest we've been skating by on a relatively cheap business model. Now what I think is happening is more of the studio working on the intangible stuff like balance updates, changing different reward structures, wvw restructuring, and stuff like that. That kind of stuff isn't really part of an expansion and they can't charge money for it, so if you have a limited budget and man power then you have to decide how to spread that to different projects and teams. They still have to make a profit from their work and the gem store brings in a nice chunk of cash but the expansions are what gives them a nice profit boost. The gem store won't sustain the game by itself. From my experience a lot more work is trying to be done for QoL and balance, and trying to I guess rejuvenate the game experience. They also had to spend some time working on DX11.

So when I add everything together and think about how the company is applying their resources, I am way happier. Whats happening outside of maps, metas, stories, and especs, is a lot more than what it used to be. No more semiannual balance updates that were comparatively dinky compared to our frequent balance updates. They have restructured a lot of especs that had nothing going on. And this new expansion seems to have everything the others did besides two new metas that may or may not have been abandoned early, while the two best ones would see play, and probably a shorter story.

$25 is a great price for the expansion and to support a company that seems to care a bit more about the wheel that's been squeaky for like 10 years.

Edited July 19, 2023 by ScottBroChill.3254

[enigmatic.3576]

17 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

The reason I brought up skin costs is because you have to look at the general cost of goods per man hour put into it.  Inflation is rising, the studio was sliced in two probably before much of this expansion was even worked on, and to be honest we've been skating by on a relatively cheap business model. Now what I think is happening is more of the studio working on the intangible stuff like balance updates, changing different reward structures, wvw restructuring, and stuff like that. That kind of stuff isn't really part of an expansion and they can't charge money for it, so if you have a limited budget and man power then you have to decide how to spread that to different projects and teams. They still have to make a profit from their work and the gem store brings in a nice chunk of cash but the expansions are what gives them a nice profit boost. The gem store won't sustain the game by itself. From my experience a lot more work is trying to be done for QoL and balance, and trying to I guess rejuvenate the game experience. They also had to spend some time working on DX11.

So when I add everything together and think about how the company is applying their resources, I am way happier. Whats happening outside of maps, metas, stories, and especs, is a lot more than what it used to be. No more semiannual balance updates that were comparatively dinky compared to our frequent balance updates. They have restructured a lot of especs that had nothing going on. And this new expansion seems to have everything the others did besides two new metas that may or may not have been abandoned early, while the two best ones would see play, and probably a shorter story.

$25 is a great price for the expansion and to support a company that seems to care a bit more about the wheel that's been squeaky for like 10 years.

Yes $25 is a great price for an expansion except you're still not understanding the value that comes from that expansion.  Is a release that gives half the value (at best) of PoF or EoD still an expansion outside of marketing?  If they released Gyala Delve as an expansion, and charged you $25, would you still be here praising them for releasing the expansion at a great price?  I keep bringing up Gyala Delve as an example in hopes you can see where I'm coming from as you're so focused on price and price alone.

Edited July 19, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[ScottBroChill.3254]

On 7/19/2023 at 2:39 PM, enigmatic.3576 said:

Yes $25 is a great price for an expansion except you're still not understanding the value that comes from that expansion.  Is a release that gives half the value (at best) of PoF or EoD still an expansion outside of marketing?  If they released Gyala Delve as an expansion, and charged you $25, would you still be here praising them for releasing the expansion at a great price?  I keep bringing up Gyala Delve as an example in hopes you can see where I'm coming from as you're so focused on price and price alone.

yes. If the fact that they switched resources to way more QoL stuff, balancing, in game rewards, etc. then I am completely fine with the next expansion that on the surface looks to be less, but probably more quality. It still has to be seen though, but I'm not going to say it isn't worth it because it's two less maps. Who the heck even goes back to PoF map besides doing dailies or for some kind of achievement. Or pinata. But compared to other things, nobody really replays the PoF maps for farming.  I think canthan maps can feel a little hollow as well. But they at least are worth to replay for meta farming. But i think a lot of people have their gripes with that expansion, between the rushed and uninspired elite specs, no new espec runes, and whatever else. The whole expansion was rushed in order to provide a specific amount of content that people expected. Would you rather have two half-a**ed things, or one whole-a**ed thing? same amount of time and work put it, just one is focused on quality not quantity.

But then again all of our arguments are pointless until we actually see whats done. If it's of the same rushed quality of EoD, or lacks meaningful replayability like PoF, then you and everyone else are completely justified in it costing that much with providing, numerically, less content. My only gripe is it seems everyone's missing the point of there being a balance between quantity and quality, and people have been complaining about quality while we have plenty of quantity in the game besides more raids. But people want wvw improved, people want classes reworked, people want new reward structures, new core weapons and no weapon restrictions which are going to be a balancing nightmare for a minute. And they expect it to be as easy as it would be for Blizzard with WoW or Square Enix for FFXIV, both of which have subscription costs that give them resources continuously. Monthly subscriptions are the cost of constant updates, yet we on guild wars expect the same from Anet who only charge a merely 30-50 bucks every couple of years. And you don't have to pay it to use old content. If you stop paying subscription on the other games, you can't play the other games. The reason these things have gone ignored for so long is because they have to constantly be putting all their resources into bigger expansions and breadth of content.

And gayla delves is a bad example dude, its just two maps. Doesn't bring new weapons, doesn't bring weapon mastery, doesn't bring legendary armor, doesn't provide an easier method to get skyscale, the expansions let you get LW episodes for free afterward, the new relic system (if you like it or not), new reward system, etc. How do you only take into consideration the amount of maps and nothing else?

[Bealis.6023]

I would argue that the decision to swith to this new model partly comes from the data coming from the current "player" Anyalytics at Anet. Its goal is to keep more active players in the game over the course of time. If you think about it, Xpac releases will be more frequent, we will get the Vault for which you can grind, we will be able to collect materials for the legendary armor set that they announced so we can be "on track", Skyscale...

I am a bit concerned about the future state of GW2, since most of the announced things are not exactly new, exciting things, mostly just improved current systems and features. On its own its fine, but yes, barebones new content in Expac really seems  its just 2 maps, skins and story. We will have to see I guess.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Bealis.6023

[Alsandar.7420]

WoW is $15/month. 

This is an expansion for $25.

Anet employees need to make a living.

$25 is how much a pizza costs

 

 

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

This is an expansion for $25.

Stop comparing to other games and start comparing to the prices we had in this game.

PoF was 30€ and significantly more content. Even EoD was a lot more for 30€.

Unless the new maps are going to be more than double in size and content than what we got in the past, the price is too high.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Stop comparing to other games and start comparing to the prices we had in this game.

PoF was 30€ and significantly more content. Even EoD was a lot more for 30€.

Unless the new maps are going to be more than double in size and content than what we got in the past, the price is too high.

 

Fine, it's going to be 25 whether you like it or not. A lot of people don't have issues with this price point, but if you do then you don't have to buy it. I mean there's things like inflation and they never changed their prices in 10 years. This is even a logical consequence due to that alone. But nobody is forcing you to buy it. 

You're just not being reasonable even though what they're charging is reasonable. 

[jokke.6239]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Stop comparing to other games and start comparing to the prices we had in this game.

PoF was 30€ and significantly more content. Even EoD was a lot more for 30€.

Unless the new maps are going to be more than double in size and content than what we got in the past, the price is too high.

 

Or maybe they were charging to little before

If this is going to mean more/better content in the long run, I sure welcome it

I'm not saying it will, time will tell

[Balsa.3951]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:14 AM, Alsandar.7420 said:

WoW is $15/month. 

This is an expansion for $25.

Anet employees need to make a living.

$25 is how much a pizza costs

 

 

man wooosh!!!  The point above ur head, how often ppl need say it, It's not about the price.  We are all rich, Anet is also already rich, OK? They don't starve, we dont starve. We discuss why this xpac is so low on content. 

Im zero hyped bcs nothing in this pac shows anything to be hyped about .

u can go to the start of this topic and read what I wrote, I mention clearly that I own 25Bucks

Edited July 31, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[enigmatic.3576]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:24 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Fine, it's going to be 25 whether you like it or not. A lot of people don't have issues with this price point, but if you do then you don't have to buy it. I mean there's things like inflation and they never changed their prices in 10 years. This is even a logical consequence due to that alone. But nobody is forcing you to buy it. 

You're just not being reasonable even though what they're charging is reasonable. 

I don't think anybody is complaining about the price point itself but rather what we're getting for that price.  Yes, $25 is a great price for an expansion but you should get an expansion's worth of content/stuff with it.  We're getting half of what we got in the previous two expansions and are paying 83% of the cost.  Where's the missing 33% of value?  Unless something is locked behind owning the DLC, it cannot be considering a part of it.  So if the new legendary armor, relics, and battlepass thing don't require you to purchase the expansion, you cannot include them, for example.

Edited July 31, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[solzuul.6294]

The next 5 mini expacs (including SotO) theoretically would have more maps than the first 3 major expacs in less than half the time. 

edit: i forget to include living worlds in my calculations. Perhaps this isn't so accurate. 😭

Edited August 1, 2023 by solzuul.6294

[Balsa.3951]

16 hours ago, solzuul.6294 said:

The next 5 mini expacs (including SotO) theoretically would have more maps than the first 3 major expacs in less than half the time. 

edit: i forget to include living worlds in my calculations. Perhaps this isn't so accurate. 😭

ya not at all.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:40 PM, Balsa.3951 said:

man wooosh!!!  The point above ur head, how often ppl need say it, It's not about the price.  We are all rich, Anet is also already rich, OK? They don't starve, we dont starve. We discuss why this xpac is so low on content. 

Im zero hyped bcs nothing in this pac shows anything to be hyped about .

u can go to the start of this topic and read what I wrote, I mention clearly that I own 25Bucks

But your first sentence of your original post was the following:

On 6/28/2023 at 5:47 AM, Balsa.3951 said:

Anything to explain why we get less than Ice Brood saga content for the price of a regular x pac?

You only have yourself to blame for this "confusion". How is this not a complaint about the price?

[Gehenna.3625]

On 8/1/2023 at 1:11 AM, enigmatic.3576 said:

I don't think anybody is complaining about the price point itself but rather what we're getting for that price.  Yes, $25 is a great price for an expansion but you should get an expansion's worth of content/stuff with it.  We're getting half of what we got in the previous two expansions and are paying 83% of the cost.  Where's the missing 33% of value?  Unless something is locked behind owning the DLC, it cannot be considering a part of it.  So if the new legendary armor, relics, and battlepass thing don't require you to purchase the expansion, you cannot include them, for example.

Which is just another way of saying that the price is too much, ergo, people are complaining about the price/content ratio. It really doesn't make a difference whether you find the price too high because of a lack of content or the content too little for the price.