Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Mesmer

[Zarathustra.1458]

Chrono got objectively worse as a support

[Ombras.2853]

"Feedback", ha.
I'm so sick of providing "feedback" to these devs.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Hire Jon Peters and Izzy again to take care of the balance. The state of the game gets worse and worse every balance patch.

[Mewtu.9720]

I like the chrono changes mostly. That being said I never cared for participating in any debate in the forums before the last balance patch which gave us an insight on changes so wild, I felt the need to express my concerns for the first time.

I mentioned an issue chrono is facing without the wells: Providing alacrity without a target will be pretty hard to do. Now the boon uptime with the rework is so increadibly high that this is mostly not a concern in fights, since you stack boons to 30s even in full dps gear, but now it feels like an inconvenience and just overall bad when you want the boon to shorten the wait on cooldowns in downtime while other alacrity classes dont face such an issue.

I dont want to reiterate why I think this is a poor design decision. I think it would have been alright if we still had alacrity on well of action (like it was originally announced). Not enough to upkeep without a target but maybe enough to pass the time.

Long story short: This is an oversight which many people from the community cought and called out right when the announcement rolled around. But luckily Anet assured us that we are heard and they value our feedback, so they doubled down and removed the announced alacrity on well of action too.

I dont know if the person who reads through the forums is just not forwarding any of the input you get to the people responsible for change or if the amount of controversial changes this patch caused too much input to read through, but talking big about listening for feedback and then changing basically nothing not only for mesmer but across the entire selection of classes you chose to tinker with is such a loud statement that the feedback is not valued at all.


I really am excited for everything the weaponmaster training beta will introduce and I really look forward to use a sniper as a mesmer in a few months but something has to change if you want community participation in desicions made for these upcoming changes to feel useful, because right now you lost a lot of trust.

[Waffles.5632]

Here is my feedback:

I went to click on one of the beta character slots, go to make a mesmer, enter name, get sent back to character screen with a message that says "beta not available"

 

That's all. I wish I was making this up lol.

Edit: It finally worked just now lmfao

Dagger Ambush is cool.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[kawaiiboy.2685]

USELESS and bad idea ever it does not work. It is useless for virt and chrono to use axe of mirage. Keep the uniqueness weapons to their specialization its better that way. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

So, instead of dishing the awful idea of free for all elite spec weapons, you decided to preemptively nerf bladeturn requiem because with shield block it might be way to many blocks.
So now we have to equip shield on virt and have the most useless skill on game.

So nice we have a balance team full of big brains. /s

[Eddie.8657]

What am i missing? I absolutely love this so far.

Axe/Shield Virtuoso  is fun !
 

[Luthan.5236]

Just tried a bit for fun - to use axe and shield on a virtuoso. Since my main is an engineer and there are more limitations. Here fun to see that it even allows to use 2 from another e-spec. Not that it makes sense though lol.

Technically my mesmer is the "2nd main" but I am soo much on engineer that I really don't know much. One different thing I might try when the final product gets released though. Found to like Chrono most in open world PvE stuff and here we have 2 weapon sets (ele and engineer have them as well not - but no swap in combat) and I can see the dagger maybe being interesting.

Also there is another weapon. (I think rifle? Used to that from my main engineer.) Final thing will need to select from the all the new options - to generate the most interesting to play. (I generally am not too into dps optimization. Just trying to find the stuff most fun for me.)

[ExposedLamia.6574]

Little jealous at seeing all these other classes have so much fun and amazement at their new abilities in the beta area.

 

Mirage this beta has a few problems so far. I don't know how I'm doing it, but you can break mirage's unique dodge mechanic and make it the baseline dodge again. I think it has to do with skyscale? I think it has to do with shield mechanics after a bit more testing. Also, Axe 3 on mirage doesn't have your clones teleport with you if they have a shield in the offhand lol.

 

Probably loads more going wrong but just some stuff that I found already.

Edited June 29, 2023 by ExposedLamia.6574

[SamMathias.1803]

My Mirage beta character will revert back to using normal dodge roll, but I'm not sure about the exact cause. Gaining Mirage Mirror using Crystal Sands seems to bug Mirage Cloak dodge for me.

[SamMathias.1803]

11 minutes ago, ExposedLamia.6574 said:

Little jealous at seeing all these other classes have so much fun and amazement at their new abilities in the beta area.

 

Mirage this beta has a few problems so far. I don't know how I'm doing it, but you can break mirage's unique dodge mechanic and make it the baseline dodge again. I think it has to do with skyscale? I think it has to do with shield mechanics after a bit more testing. Also, Axe 3 on mirage doesn't have your clones teleport with you if they have a shield in the offhand lol.

 

Probably loads more going wrong but just some stuff that I found already.

Ah, looks like I'm not the only one. Gaining Mirage Mirror using Crystal Sands seems to bug Mirage Cloak dodge for me.

[Narrenwinter.2637]

Regarding the new Mirage Ambush Skill for Dagger (Phantom Razor😞

First, I like what it does and it also looks cool.

However, there is a problem with what Dagger actually does outside of Virtuoso elite specialization. 

Phantom Razor (which you only have access to as Mirage) is a condition dmg skill, but the other Dagger skills (as Mirage) are just plain vanilla dps without Jagged Mind from Virtuoso Spec.

This seems to irreconcilably pull the weapon in two different directions (condition vs. power dmg). Power builds won't benefit from the Bleeding and Torment, whereas Condition builds won't choose Dagger because it only provides condition dmg through Ambush.

[Skyroar.2974]

My thoughts:

Virtuoso Axe

Cloneless Axe is surprisingly fun. Simple and clean playstyle.

Skill #3 scaling with number of blades is a really smart way to make up for the loss of clones' and ambush's damage. Not sure if enough, though. The last sentence of the tooltip also needs to be removed, as it mentions clones changing targets, which is irrelevant info for Virtuoso.

Please, consider adding the "blade" tooltip to all bladed weapons (swords, axe). Besides dagger, you added it to greatsword's #2, 3 and 4, but nothing else.

Mirage Dagger

The ambush seems strong and exciting, kind of like a condi, ranged version of MH sword's daze spamming ambush.

The "Mirage Mantle" master trait has a new description (ambush skills are improved), although the effect remains the same. A hint of a future change?

Dagger's Clones

They suck. They offer no condi damage and no utility. They're just there throwing 0-damage daggers. At least MH Sword's clones apply vulnerability, and GS's clones can improve the bouncing skill from GS #2. Dagger's clones have nothing going for them besides being shatters' fodder.

This is especially worse on condi builds that rely on clone's AA condi procs. Mirage using dagger is therefore put into this awkward situation where they have a strong condi ambush but, otherwise, deal 0 condi damage on ALL of their skills.

My suggestion is to put some baseline bleeding into daggers' skills (and clones), and then take a bit of bleeding away from Virtuoso's Jagged Mind trait to make up for it (so condi Virtuoso would get a power-neutral change in order to make room for dagger condi Mirage).

TL;DR

Axe virtuoso is fun, but may be underpowered without clones and ambushes.

Dagger mirage has a good condi ambush skill, but offers 0 condi damage otherwise.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Skyroar.2974

[Waffles.5632]

@Skyroar.2974 @Narrenwinter.2637 100% my thoughts as well. You both spoke my mind.

[Veprovina.4876]

14 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

so psyched for all the options, axe chronomancer and sword mirage! no wonder the dodge needed a little nerf if we get two!

Well good news, you don't have to wait for the expansion, you can play sword mirage right now!

It's janky, and the entire mesmer spec is gutted, but hey, you can play it. It'll probably be ok in open world.

[Veprovina.4876]

Here's the inial thoughts.

Dagger doesn't create clones (stock blade ability) on Mirage. Why?

Mirage reverts to normal dodge often.

Dagger ambush is ok.

Dagger/Shield on mirage looks cool. I love the idea of using all the weapons, but i fail to see how the current balance devs will be able to not make a mess of this. You just introduced a high number of additional weapons to balance for each class. Not to mention relics.

Do you have any idea how many combinations that is?

I'm positive the balance department is not up to the task.

[ascii.1369]

1 hour ago, kawaiiboy.2685 said:

USELESS and bad idea ever it does not work. It is useless for virt and chrono to use axe of mirage. Keep the uniqueness weapons to their specialization its better that way. 

wtf? I just destroyed some people in competitive with axe chrono. It was kitten ton of fun.

Edited June 29, 2023 by ascii.1369

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

9 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

 

Dagger/Shield on mirage looks cool. I love the idea of using all the weapons, but i fail to see how the current balance devs will be able to not make a mess of this. You just introduced a high number of additional weapons to balance for each class. Not to mention relics.

They already showed how they'll fix any problem that will arrive, by making something else useless.
Since you can equip shield on virt they took out the blocks on B. Requiem.

[Veprovina.4876]

5 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

They already showed how they'll fix any problem that will arrive, by making something else useless.
Since you can equip shield on virt they took out the blocks on B. Requiem.

Yes, before we can actually use the shield. They took out functionality preemptively. WIth nothing in return as compensation as usual.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[Salt Mode.3780]

As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. 

As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage.

[Waffles.5632]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:03 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. 

As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage.

Yeah I was thinking sword+pistol/dagger+torch but you straight up don't need sword because dagger ambush so good, especially considering sword ambush is fickle on if it even lands.

I went dagger+pistol/staff and if staff didn't have the alac+might I'd never switch to it kuz dagger ambush + IH just completely wrecks everything atm. This just pve, but pvp the potential is there too with dagger ambush since it's essentially ranged sword but better.

Mirage should of had dagger all along tbh it fits so cleanly into the kit, just need the tweaks to dagger 2 and 3 because they both feel absolutely awful to use right now.

I can see a dagger+pistol/axe+torch build doing very well if anet actually does their job and listens to feedback for once.

There's also shield as well which fits in rather nicely.

[Exciton.8942]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. 

As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage.

I really like the casting backward feature. I think daze can be changed to cripple but casting backward can stay. Otherwise I don't see why this weapon is any use in PvP

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 minutes ago, Exciton.8942 said:

I really like the casting backward feature. I think daze can be changed to cripple but casting backward can stay. Otherwise I don't see why this weapon is any use in PvP

pair this with like traits that increase cd when daze or chaos where your weapon skills are off CD and it is insanely broken

[Roadkizzle.2157]

3 hours ago, kawaiiboy.2685 said:

USELESS and bad idea ever it does not work. It is useless for virt and chrono to use axe of mirage. Keep the uniqueness weapons to their specialization its better that way. 

It works GREAT for other classes. Tempest with Sword and Warhorn is getting 48k+ benchmark.

But the Mesmer spec weapons are just useless without the specs traitline or is just useless like the shield.