Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Ranger

[Scynte.1340]

Solar Brilliance feels good to use, but the aoe moving with the player is a bit weird. It seems like it would look better if it were planted in the spot it is first used. 

Dagger makes me feel more than ever that I need special key binds for untamed so that the key used for the f5 is more accessible. 

[Spike rr.7125]

Untamed: Staff on untamed would make for a really sweet heal quickness build. Untamed as a concept is really interesting however as a heal support untamed is extremely selfish. I would love to see some less selfish options for this build because it really does feel awesome with the staff ambush skill. However as it is right now it probably is pretty decent, its just the staff is bugged and doesn't apply quickness.

BUG: Staff does not apply quickness when you use its unleashed skill.

Hammer: An idea that could be interesting; using the hammer skills would cause that singular skill to flip over to the unleashed hammer skill.

[Halbarz.3854]

Having new weapons is one thing but you should address some of the base ranger traits in the meantime to allow utilization of the new weapons in different elite specs. 

I still not convinced that hammer will be used more , GS still seems to be the most obvious choice for 2H
Interested to see what people come up with build wise

Edited June 30, 2023 by Halbarz.3854

[Mephistopheles.2490]

These are interesting changes actually. The animations on the new ambush skills are fascinating, even tho there is no visble dps option for Untamed rn. My main point would be the aesthetics. I would love to seea general re-vfx-ing of skills cause kost of the skills are outdated, uninteresting. Sad experience, yesterday I tried out Harbinger for example and the potion throws are just grey lines just as the shortbow skill 1. Now this is a complete turnoff for most newcomers. Cause at first they dont understand the combat system, and to be honest in 2023 GW is still a slow progression MMO meaning that you need a lot of time to level up, unlock all the skills and so on and so forth.(even after the change of exp boost achievements). So the main point of my post would be, that, YES these weapons changes are fine, need some polishing, bugfixing and stuff, BUT, I think that we also need a huge VFX and SFX also that could catch more eyes. Also, about class fantasy, almost forgot, it should be also part of the plan to create a storykine or more achievement related to the elite soecializations. IMO it added some authenticity to farm out the achievement ascended weapons for the elites specs. This kind of exclusivity is still a good feeling. As a Soulbeast as Ebelek Eze said, we trained to use the dagger because we are fighters, like primal berserkers with our pet inside us, and this is why we chose a weapon of such. I think you need to think of this too. Cause it could lead to the complete ruination if class identity.

[kiwituatara.6053]

16 hours ago, Woop S.7851 said:

Ops, my bad, yes you are correct 👍, there is no invulnerability for the wisp, thanks for noticing it!

Just tested Soulbeast Longbow/Staff (WvW only), quick notes:

• The range for wisp is still 1200 range, with Quick Draw trait on, can run away 2400 range after bursting in Beastmode
• When used with Smokescale, the Staff skill 3 can land in the smokefield for aoe stealth, works wonders if 2 Soulbeasts (both Longbow/Staff) are roaming together while under pressure
• With Bristleback, can stack bleeding, if Ogre runes' 6th bonus is equipped, can stack more bleed from Rock Dog + have 1 more cannon fodder pet, Rock dog has a default leap/interrupt last checked, though I could be wrong. With 2 Rangers roaming that is 4 pets in combat, high mobility/heal/support from Staff, and 1500 range DPS
• With Fanged Iboga, can spam confusion vs healers while rupting/bursting DPS & conditions then run away if focused
• With Rock Gazelle, can spam interrupts, the addition of Staff now allows me to swap to 'full glass DPS/Condition Gear' due to staffs' high mobility/support, watch out WvW Necros! 😁
• Have yet to try Staff/Staff, in WvW, losing the 1500 range advantage from Longbow can be detrimental

Staff dps is sooooooo being slept on.

Rapid fire uses maybe only 1/2s of Sic Em/One Wolf Pack effectively. The fact you can utilise those burst uptime for the FULL 8s/10s with staff auto while building might stacks!!! On a weapon that is 1200 range that's not projectile. While using tanky utilies from soulbeast.

 

I have been playing power staff on druid for a while. Even without buffs, you can really apply pressure consistently with power staff.

[Draeyon.4392]

Hammer damage too low in competitive modes on non untamed builds. Would never use it over other options. Please look at warrior hammer for a cc weapon that can deal damage and look to adjust base ranger hammer accordingly.

[Strider.7849]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:55 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

Hammer is probably not going to be used, due to the good part being locked behind Unleash and what we get is simply weak. Hopefully the unleash part will be thrown into a garbage pile and hammer is reworked.

Dagger has good hybrid dps and since the 3 change it has ok'ish mobility. Probably will see play in PvE as mh axe alternative. Pretty much the melee mh dps weapon we were missing.

Staff is probably the most interesting one, as it's the only full support weapon we have (not counting WH cause it's just offhand). Despite AA and wisp being the only damage, it has a potential to be used in PvP/WvW as a mix between dps and def weapon, thanks to allowing a 3rd power focused traitline.

It seems like the heavy nerfs they made to druid are because they wanted hammer to work with it. I tested a condi build and it flows better with hammer than with other weapons since CA forces melee now and the loss of ancient seeds. It's still really bad though. 

[Beddo.1907]

28 minutes ago, Strider.7849 said:

It seems like the heavy nerfs they made to druid are because they wanted hammer to work with it. I tested a condi build and it flows better with hammer than with other weapons since CA forces melee now and the loss of ancient seeds. It's still really bad though. 

All classes got hit and hammer wasn't very popular , so I doubt that's it.

[Strider.7849]

7 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

All classes got hit and hammer wasn't very popular , so I doubt that's it.

Are you sure all classes got hit? 

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

All classes got hit and hammer wasn't very popular , so I doubt that's it.

He plays with Blood Moon, if you add hammer then you can reach up to 9 stacks of bleeding on druid with hammer alone but....again  outside pve, hammer is useless unless paired with GS which once again carries the whole class.  I can see hammer condi druid being played as a off roamer/small group in wvw....nothing exceptional mind you, but definitely more sustain than Untamed hammer thx to druid sustain

Edited June 30, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[RisenHowl.2419]

Staff and hammer both feel great on soulbeast. Both druid and soulbeast have spots in the wvw meta with this expac and the last few balance patches

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Ranger getting some real benefits from this mastery.

Soulbeast's dagger isn't chained to it's native spec with anything, providing full value no matter which ranger spec equips it.
Druid now gets a great condi option with it, as does Untamed with bonus new unleashed ambush skill for it.

Similar story for the staff. While healing part of it's kit is best at home with druid and rest of it's kit, other ranger specs can find plenty of use for it anyway. Untamed has a great new ambush for it which aoe pulse heals and grants prot. And they can already grant aoe quickness with abush skills, so support Untamed is shaping up right in front of our eyes.
Soulbeast benefits from staffs escape ability and projectile block. Also even soulbeast can heal allies a bit, so the staff can help reinforce some niche bruiser/offhealer build.

Both soulbeast and untamed can also try taking power spin on this weapon in competitive - killing enemy glass cannons with extremely hard to defend against laser beam is definitely a strategy.

And lastly we have the hammer. Even when losing offensive half of it's abilities due to other specs not having unleash mechanic, it's still a robust defensive control weapon for power builds.

And i can totally see both druids and soulbeasts enjoy such an option. Druids love cc'ing enemies into oblivion, especially with immob which has now been reduced. Hammer can help fix that problem.
Power Soulbeasts crave for anything that can help them setup their big burst (Whirling defense, Wordly leap), and hammer sounds like a great option for that.

[Mitchwise.3514]

Solar Brilliance is really fun, and could be the basis of a really fun heal-quick Untamed build especially after the changes in July go through. However, currently it is bugged and doesn't provide quickness. Also, some more supportive trait and utility options would be really helpful for Untamed. As someone else said, all of the cantrips are entirely selfish (and not really helpful in pve). 

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[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Mitchwise.3514 said:

Solar Brilliance is really fun, and could be the basis of a really fun heal-quick Untamed build especially after the changes in July go through. However, currently it is bugged and doesn't provide quickness. Also, some more supportive trait and utility options would be really helpful for Untamed. As someone else said, all of the cantrips are entirely selfish (and not really helpful in pve). 

 

While I want to dream as well, part of the problem is ranger's boon output.

 

Almost everything that can be sustained is currently on druid. Warhorn 5 is the only thing in core ranger's kit that can be kept up on its own at 100% BD.

 

Design aside the pet swap traits are only doing a little better, with Clarion Bond being unable to upkeep and spirited Arrival being specifically changed to do so.

 

Sun spirit mathematically could upkeep might if the animations weren't so long. Stone Spirit can't upkeep prot, neither can pets or Invigorating Bond. Would be forced to use both off CD which would all but invalidate the aegis from stone spirit and potentially white tiger. The rest generally aren't worth using for boons, although I will give water spirit props for being a strong group heal.

 

I'd love to have a goopy green quick healer, but I don't see it happening sadly.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

21 hours ago, Spike rr.7125 said:

Hammer: An idea that could be interesting; using the hammer skills would cause that singular skill to flip over to the unleashed hammer skill.

I don't know if you guys realize this, but you can swap between the unleash hammer skill, and the normal varient outside of untamed by right clicking the skill slot. Individually.

Aka, You can have your preferred Hammer skill loadout outside of untamed.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

5 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

While I want to dream as well, part of the problem is ranger's boon output.

Actually untamed's boon sharing is up to the task.
Assuming you got 50% boon duration:

Quickness, fury, protection and regeneration - can be upkept 100% of the time.
Might - blasting fire field (torch offhand) seems the best solution. this can range anywhere from 9 to 21 stacks of long lasting might depending how desperate you are for it.

 

4 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

I don't know if you guys realize this, but you can swap between the unleash hammer skill, and the normal varient outside of untamed by right clicking the skill slot. Individually.

Aka, You can have your preferred Hammer skill loadout outside of untamed.

Now that is something i had no idea about, very nice!
Great job on dev's part there - its not as powerful as on untamed, but i still gives us control over what we want from it and on per ability basis:3

Edited July 1, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Riot Inducer.8964]

Got to say I am pretty impressed with the way the ranger weapons have turned out. 

First off thank you for the way hammer skills are customizable! This is what I wanted from hammer since the EoD elite spec beta weekends! Also I dare say it's a reasonable proof of concept for what alternative weapon skill sets could look like in the future if we get to the point where new weapons can no longer be added.

But regardless custom hammer on soulbeast has felt so much better than untamed at least in pve. No more accidentally putting your cc skills on cooldown because you used the unleash version or missing the window for your +dmg to cc skills because you didn't want to cancel your ambush skill. It just works exactly as intended with no mucking about swapping modes to line up the right skills at the right time. I love it.

Dagger wasn't much of a surprise it's great everywhere, core, druid, untamed, it's all gravy. The ambush skill for it is quite satisfying too! Great job. 

Haven't done a ton with staff but it's got some serious potential, a lot more than I expected. It has some synergies to be a reasonable complement to power damage builds and with the ambush skill it might open up a quickness healer build for untamed which is wild to think about. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Actually untamed's boon sharing is up to the task.
Assuming you got 50% boon duration:

Quickness, fury, protection and regeneration - can be upkept 100% of the time.
Might - blasting fire field (torch offhand) seems the best solution. this can range anywhere from 9 to 21 stacks of long lasting might depending how desperate you are for it.

Fury, protection, and regen, you specifically take pretty big losses in DPS for through Nature Magic (or just meh trait choices). Untamed does not want to do this. It already struggles in DPS enough.

 

Taking offhand torch on both power and condi is a foolish choice. Specifically for might makes it even worse. It's not worth going through all that extra time spent giving might with a subpar weapon, especially on power builds. Yes, it can be done, but so can heal quick catalyst and heal alac bladesworn.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

16 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Fury, protection, and regen, you specifically take pretty big losses in DPS for through Nature Magic (or just meh trait choices). Untamed does not want to do this. It already struggles in DPS enough.

 

Taking offhand torch on both power and condi is a foolish choice. Specifically for might makes it even worse. It's not worth going through all that extra time spent giving might with a subpar weapon, especially on power builds. Yes, it can be done, but so can heal quick catalyst and heal alac bladesworn.

Well I didn't say it's optimal, just that it is possible.
That being said why is torch a bad condi weapon?

[Mitchwise.3514]

8 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Actually untamed's boon sharing is up to the task.
Assuming you got 50% boon duration:

Quickness, fury, protection and regeneration - can be upkept 100% of the time.
Might - blasting fire field (torch offhand) seems the best solution. this can range anywhere from 9 to 21 stacks of long lasting might depending how desperate you are for it.

Just theory crafting a heal-quick build here:

1) If you go staff-staff, the unleashed ambush alone can be used 4 times in a 20-25 second window. That's a 5k heal per ambush and full protection and quickness uptime.
2) Ranger poops out fury and regen just for existing.
3) Flame Trap is on a 12 second cooldown with alacrity. You can blast that with Unnatural Traversal, Staff 3, and either Frost Spirit or Stone Spirit for 9 stacks of might with 40 second duration. This easily amounts to 25 might even though it takes a while to ramp up.
4) Water Spirit, Invigorating Bond, and pet abilities (Moa F1) could then provide about 10k in emergency heals on a fairly short cooldown.
5) You still have Nature Spirit for the rez, though it is obviously not as good as Glyph of Stars.
6) Aegis is available on Stone Spirit and White Tiger. If you need the aegis, you could easily sacrifice a tiny bit of might to provide that to group.

So in conclusion: 25 might, full quickness, protection, regen, fury, and vigor. Partial uptime on resistance, resolution, and aegis. Good healing output, boon corruption,  condi cleanse, emergency rez, and pet flexibility. Really only lacking stability and good breakbar damage (which could be fixed with pets or dropping a little might application).

Seems decent enough, though you'd definitely get some funny looks.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Well I didn't say it's optimal, just that it is possible.
That being said why is torch a bad condi weapon?

It's so much worse than offhand dagger and burning doesn't complement ranger that well as of right now.

[captrowdy.9561]

Was stoked to use hammer in soulbeast got wvw and pvp. Doesn’t seem to be working well? 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

12 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

Was stoked to use hammer in soulbeast got wvw and pvp. Doesn’t seem to be working well? 

Are you changing the skills from the "leashed" version to the unleashed version?

 

Hammer is also bad in pvp right now, not sure if it's workable in wvw though.

[Saucy.1547]

Untamed can make great use of soulbeast dagger for a condi build. The pet Unleashed moves combined with untamed dmg buff gives unleashed a viable condi build. Easily 25k-30k+ dmg, just stay unleahed and stack conditions. No weapon swap needed, no complicated rotation (skill order matters very little unless you are min maxing) Unleash swap to dump pet ambush abilities only or to soak dmg.

 

Here is the build in work. Obviously use double dagger (menu wont let you pick main hand dagger yet).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POhAwilZw+YWMK2JW6P3x/JkC-zRJYmRDfYkmAdFg/0kiZLQFA-e

[aymnad.9023]

Bug from beta :

Staff and dagger ambush do not work with Let Loose (untamed)

If you mouse over the dagger auto while playing untamed it has to display 4 autos + the ambush which does not fit on screen so you end up missing info about the 1st auto and the ambush.

Other bug:

Let loose fury is a different “fury” in PvP. It does not trigger traits like remorsless and has a different icon placement from standard fury (you can have both effects)

Weaponmaster :

My main issue with allowing all weapons is that they have to compete with each other and on ranger they will hardly shine or be super situational. 

For example I doubt dagger can find a place. Soulbeast can use it because of the synergy with Predator's cunning. But on other specs it has to compete with axe and shortbow which are range, strong and even with them ranger manages to be behind what other professions can output on most bosses.

For staff I really do not share the excitement some players have for this weapon outside of a support druid build. It has minimum healing (as the main one is tied to CA) and dps (because it should not be a dps weapon).

Hammer skill selection is really cool. Something should inform players that they can change the skills! Without reading the forums I would never have known. I tried it on sicem build and had a better dps output. Gs is safer, hammer will have more dps and lb will have range. I just think it will struggle in PvE vs most of the eod strike bosses where range is better and will hardly be used in PvP.

Untamed :

Now a special mention to untamed. The new ambushes are really cool. 

The dagger ambush is fun. A blink + an effect is what unnatural traversal should have been. The aoe effect has some good value for teamfights. Still I doubt it will be played in PvP because the rest of the dagger kit and ranger weapons do not allow to follow up.

The staff ambush is great but as I said about staff earlier I have mixt feelings about it. I tried to solo a bounty and found that it had good dps and good healing. But I also noticed a lot of healing comes from the lifesiphon  (which makes sense) when I struggled a bit to heal someone. Maybe some duelist builds or some support attempts on bosses without too much damage can make it work.

Edited July 2, 2023 by aymnad.9023