Suyheuti.1732 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I have tons of things to say. I started to game after release at 2012, I opened mesmer (Normally I played only warrior style chars at previous mmos but I loved Mesmer's identity) Then I quit. I came back after PoF and I choose mirage. Since the day, my main is Mirage, but I like Chrono too. I didnt like Virtuoso, because Virtuoso doesnt represent mesmer's identity, I think. The first 3 legendary weapons I crafted were, Astralaria, Rodgort and HOPE. Now you can imagine how much I love Mirage. I'm furious because Anet was trying to put Mirage into the casket alive over years. Now they finally succeed. Now give me one good reason to play mirage. Lets compare with condi virtuoso. (About primary weapon axe and its build axe mirage) 1 - Virtuoso has 1200 range, axe mirage is fully melee and playing at edge is dangerous. You can continue attacking when you are in phases. 2- Cvirt is very easy to play. Playing with axe mirage is challenging to archieve good numbers and one of the hardest builds in the game. (When we played with illusions trait, it was harder) 3- Mirage has still bugs to make us miserable, Anet is very busy to fix the bugs in gemstore items. 4 - Cvirtuoso has 41,5K benchmark, I dont know currently mirage's benchmark but even if it is below 44k DPS, not worth to play. 5- With the confusion change, mirage is in coma righr now. (I'm not against confusion change, I hate to play with mirage only specific bosses.) I want justice. Thanks Solar (but no thanks), mirage has been out of the track since he buffed staff and chaos trait. I dont even remember how many nerf mirage took since then. It was a mistake giving alac to staff ambush. It must be in GM trait. Mirage has tons of useless utility and traits. Lets talk about Chrono. You know Sw/Sw-Sw/Focus DPS chrono was a thing once. That thing is dead and now GS is much stronger and easier to play. (Power Virtuoso is much easier and better DPS output) The weird thing is All chrono builds are using same traits, same playstyle and same gear including supports. Domi 1-2-1, Dueling 1-3-1, Chrono 2-3-?. Yes only different thing is Chrono GM trait. If you choose 1, you play alac, 2 quickness, 3 DPS. You dont need boon duration right now. (I didnt try alac but with quickness, it is very easy to cap quick in couple sec with 0 bd) Yeah guys, this is what Anet calls balance. Anet didnt even buff Scepter (its trait is not stacking with quickness and weapon is very lackluster. With new weapons, there will be no balance at all. I would give some ideas but balance team wont care. This is complainment thread. I complained. Maybe some devs read and take a lesson. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katte nici.9483 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 16 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: Anet doesn't, 🤡m🤡 does. Also, don't pander to a multi million dollar company, it's cringe, they have enough staff and resources. When nobody looks forward to a balance patch in years, and each time it's an unprecedented disaster with build issues and bugs, that go unchecked for years, there's something rotten there. And it goes beyond just "people don't like X change", the balance is the biggest mess in years, and now they even added multiple new angles to balance - WHY would they do that if they don't have the resources to balance? Yeah, no, he also made it very clear that every nerf on mesmer is "deserved" and does hard mental gymnastics on why that's so. They are right, though. Dev time costs a lot of money and in this system the company is forced to maximize profit. It's hard to justify the 5+ extra full time balance devs the game would need when instead you can just let players spend resources making alts to play the flavour of the month builds. Sure you get a more healthy game long term, but all that matters is the next quarter. 2 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said: They are right, though. Dev time costs a lot of money and in this system the company is forced to maximize profit. It's hard to justify the 5+ extra full time balance devs the game would need when instead you can just let players spend resources making alts to play the flavour of the month builds. Sure you get a more healthy game long term, but all that matters is the next quarter. How much money would it cost just to replace the current balance leads? I'll give you a spoiler - the exact same they're paying the current ones. They don't need to "invest" or hire 5+ extra balance leads, they just need to hire unbiased competent ones that actually listen to the playerbase that plays their game and for whom they are balancing it. As it stands, they're balancing the whole MMO (MASSIVELY multiplayer online game - emphasis on massively), for themselves. Nobody wanted this patch. They didn't listen to feedback, they didn't care, the patch just plowed on, forcefully if needed. So tell me, how much money does it take for a multi million dollar company to replace 2 people? And "next quarter" isn't anyone's good idea of a financial strategy for a long lasting MMO, trust me, the higher ups aren't THAT dumb. 7 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyant.1327 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Mesmer mains legitimately need a new MMO because its a toxic relationship with ANET. They're never going to change or treat them better. All we can do is move on. 😂😰😭 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 24 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said: How much money would it cost just to replace the current balance leads? I'll give you a spoiler - the exact same they're paying the current ones. They don't need to "invest" or hire 5+ extra balance leads, they just need to hire unbiased competent ones that actually listen to the playerbase that plays their game and for whom they are balancing it. As it stands, they're balancing the whole MMO (MASSIVELY multiplayer online game - emphasis on massively), for themselves. Nobody wanted this patch. They didn't listen to feedback, they didn't care, the patch just plowed on, forcefully if needed. So tell me, how much money does it take for a multi million dollar company to replace 2 people? And "next quarter" isn't anyone's good idea of a financial strategy for a long lasting MMO, trust me, the higher ups aren't THAT dumb. If they had more time and money invested into the developers and QA then they wouldn't be releasing updates with so many bugs or staggering mechanical releases after an Expac. Making bad choices for how to implement a change is one thing, but allowing multiple bugs to come out every patch tells me they do not have the manpower to qa and fix these bugs before a release. I don't disagree that the existing devs have an apparent bias in how they have been updating the game, but more developers would potentially reduce the workload of the few devs they have and allow more time invested into making better design choices for all professions. As an aside, I have found personally that yelling into the void 'they hate me' does not garner any results. Instead, by identifying a very likely issue, 'a lack of time and money invested into developers' and repeating that might cause some Anet staff who read this to consider maybe they really should invest more money and time into the developers. Then all we would be left with is the bad choices the devs make, not the lazy, uncaring, mistake riddled releases we have seen the past year. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin.4501 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 The current balance team basically buffs the classes they like to play and nerfs everything else. It's really that simple. 4 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I just realized how crippling immobile is for us. We cant even dodge while immobile, i understand dodging while CC but immobile is something im sure every class can STILL dodge just without distance. Now that I am immobile I literally cannot do anything because its not a stun i cant stunbreak out of it, even if i was to create some distance i am still rooted. I would have to cleanse it off but that is if I can get it cleansed off vs a heavy condi class. If the argument is that oh just use mantra or antitoxin runes and double cleansing well then make it like that for EVERY OTHER class. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrix.4512 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Oh God, how glad I am that I didn't main Mesmer, although I really REALLY wanted to. I feel sorry for this class (especially the Mirage spec), it was my favorite alt. But if you look at it from another perspective - how long until the same thing happens with my Rev? And all the efforts, resources, and love that I've put into the class/character will simply be wasted. I adore ANet for creating this game, which in just a year has given me more pleasure than WoW did in its entire existence and my 10 years of playing it. But I hate ANet for what they are doing with the game. I hate them for the fact that I will never be able to permanently enjoy my class, because sooner or later they WILL MAKE me change spec or even class. Perhaps I should consider other projects, as I no longer want to support this developer; they don't need me, or you, or that guy over there. They just need our money. Or... actually no, I'm lying - given the recent events, it seems they don't even want our money, because such a fervent desire to lose their playerbase can't be harbored by people who want money. Apparently, they don't know what they want or what they need. 10 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin.4501 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Antrix.4512 said: I adore ANet for creating this game, which in just a year has given me more pleasure than WoW did in its entire existence and my 10 years of playing it. But I hate ANet for what they are doing with the game. Perhaps I should consider other projects, as I no longer want to support this developer; they don't need me, or you, or that guy over there. They just need our money. Or... actually no, I'm lying - given the recent events, it seems they don't even want our money, because such a fervent desire to lose their playerbase can't be harbored by people who want money. Apparently, they don't know what they want or what they need. Basically the people who created this game have long since moved on, and the people who have replaced them are...either not very good at their job or at best completely disinterested in improving things in a way that makes a majority of the community happy. They only seem interested in improving things for the classes they like and the very small number of players they listen to in their Discord group. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles.5632 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 @Ronin.4501 Yes it very much feels like the devs design for themselves instead of for the players and tbh it's immensely frustrating. So many unique playstyles being killed off recently. 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowfang.8529 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 My thoughts on mesmer issues. Mesmer skills that need ups: F5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/4/43/Bladeturn_Requiem.png/33px-Bladeturn_Requiem.png Bladeturn Requiem 2 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/5/54/Bladecall.png/33px-Bladecall.png Bladecall 3 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/9/93/Unstable_Bladestorm.png/33px-Unstable_Bladestorm.png Unstable Bladestorm Wtf with the nerf? F5 is now a trash skill. 2 mult is low now. 3 is just ridiculous. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/01/Phantasmal_Warlock.png/33px-Phantasmal_Warlock.png Phantasmal Warlock Still bugged in wvw with 2stacks of vuln instead of 4. Underwhelming in pvp/wvw. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Sword_of_Decimation.png/33px-Sword_of_Decimation.png Sword of Decimation Reduced cd? Not really https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/f/fd/Arcane_Thievery.png/33px-Arcane_Thievery.png Arcane Thievery Consider reworking the line of sight or fix idk. How many times this skill fail to trigger? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/a8/Mimic.png/33px-Mimic.png Mimic Consider lowering CD again. Or maybe a cool effect on cast? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/08/Phantasmal_Defender.png/33px-Phantasmal_Defender.png Phantasmal Defender Tf? Who does use this skill? Mesmer mantras: Well mantras... Mesmer traits that need ups: Minor Grandmaster https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/b/b3/Master_Fencer.png/25px-Master_Fencer.png Master Fencer Thief and Renegade have the exact same trait but as master minor. Ele has a better trait as master major. Why? Major Adept https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/f/fe/Master_of_Manipulation.png/25px-Master_of_Manipulation.png Master of Manipulation Does anyone use it? Garbage. Major Master https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/07/Chaotic_Transference.png/25px-Chaotic_Transference.png Chaotic Transference Consider applying it with chaos aura not chaos armor. Major Grandmaster https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/7/70/Mental_Defense.png/25px-Mental_Defense.png Mental Defense Does anyone use it? Garbage. Major Grandmaster https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/4/4c/Elusive_Mind.png/25px-Elusive_Mind.png Elusive Mind Ranger has a better trait as master major. Why? Major Grandmaster https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/3/3b/Stretched_Time.png/25px-Stretched_Time.png Stretched Time Utility of wells now? Revert it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin.4501 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said: @Ronin.4501 Yes it very much feels like the devs design for themselves instead of for the players and tbh it's immensely frustrating. So many unique playstyles being killed off recently. Based on what I'm seeing from the current beta (from playing in both WvW and SPvP), this next expansion is basically going to kill multiple builds, as players will just pick the best spec and the best weapon(s) and nothing else will be able to compete. And considering how bad the current balance team already is at "balance", it's only going to get much worse when you factor in all the additional weapon choices. 4 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 sword cata has 50k+ dps in pve sword cata in pvp is so broken it can fight 1v2 and its about fair. but lets nerf virtuoso, it was almost viable 😄 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said: sword cata has 50k+ dps in pve sword cata in pvp is so broken it can fight 1v2 and its about fair. but lets nerf virtuoso, it was almost viable 😄 I'm guessing that not most classes Spec weapons are actually underpowered and only get viable because the eSpec has traits that boost them. Or they tie into the class mechanics. But because Elementalist has the elemental attunements they made the Spec weapons skills powerful individually. So when you combine the Spec weapons with eSpecs they were not designed for and combine two Spec Weapons together they make it much more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuras.5394 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Mirage was ok when I first started over 9 years ago. I could never get into Chrono and I tried many builds. Then you have Virtuoso to which I like the range attack aspect but hated the goofy daggers floating over my characters head. I also hated the fact that it plays like a glass canon and is probably the only spec that needs help with any boss. And we all know how Arenanet will punish players by instant killing us when it comes to some boss or champions. Mesmer is a very frustrating profession to play right now. Dodges only help a little, clones don't last long and die easily. Virtuoso has next to no def or blocks unlike other professions in the game. If Arenanet thinks there is nothing wrong with Mesmer then please show me the builds you all use! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega.5791 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 9:20 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said: I just realized how crippling immobile is for us. We cant even dodge while immobile, i understand dodging while CC but immobile is something im sure every class can STILL dodge just without distance. Now that I am immobile I literally cannot do anything because its not a stun i cant stunbreak out of it, even if i was to create some distance i am still rooted. I would have to cleanse it off but that is if I can get it cleansed off vs a heavy condi class. If the argument is that oh just use mantra or antitoxin runes and double cleansing well then make it like that for EVERY OTHER class. Not sure of serious or not? No other dodge works while immobilized either... never did... at all... Not saying immobilized is a fun condition though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetFoxxed.9478 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Megametzler.5729 said: Not sure of serious or not? No other dodge works while immobilized either... never did... at all... Not saying immobilized is a fun condition though. Its not just immobilize, but ANY crowd control 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Megametzler.5729 said: Not sure of serious or not? No other dodge works while immobilized either... never did... at all... Not saying immobilized is a fun condition though. Yes, but others have several built in fast ways to clense the condition, mirage doesn't. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 53 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said: Yes, but others have several built in fast ways to clense the condition, mirage doesn't. I was forced to forfeit a signet for mantra of concentration. I guess it could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Geronmy.3298 said: I was forced to forfeit a signet for mantra of concentration. I guess it could be worse. Meanwhile most everyone else can more or less passively clense their conditions, but MC working through immob is a problem? Come on... It doesn't have to work through CC, but it should work through immob. You are after all just distorting in place, immob shouldn't work on it, you're not going anywhere like a normal dodge works. Otherwise Mirage cloak is just a worse dodge because you can't even dodge out of AOE, and ambushes don't compensate for it enough. Edited July 1, 2023 by Veprovina.4876 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshkyLicious.4729 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: Meanwhile most everyone else can more or less passively clense their conditions, but MC working through immob is a problem? Come on... It doesn't have to work through CC, but it should work through immob. You are after all just distorting in place, immob shouldn't work on it, you're not going anywhere like a normal dodge works. Otherwise Mirage cloak is just a worse dodge because you can't even dodge out of AOE, and ambushes don't compensate for it enough. To not be able to dodge through immob is just too much, especially since our dodge doesnt move us in any direction at all so we can escape AoEs. And as Veprovina says, our ambushes are in such a poor condition (bc of all the nerfs), so they dont make up for this nerfed dodge either. @Cal Cohen.2358 The only fair way to keep our dodge in this current nerfed state, is to give Mirages the ability to teleport a short distance either backwards, forward or to the sides. Your clones should teleport to random spots next to the real Mirage aswell, when you have IH on. This will help us manage our clones better, which we really need as Mirages. Once teleport is done, ambush happens. No, this wont be too strong and OP, bc both Mirage and it's clones are still too squishy by nature. But the ability to dodge like this gives Mirage some sustain and defence that it badly needs. There's no excuse for not implementing something like this, since thiefs can perma dodge/stealth, and eles are massively OP right now etc. This should've been Mirages special dodge from the beginning, since it fits its identity better. It makes us fast, fluid and deceptive, plus it helps us to actually have a chance to avoid AoEs and not to get overwhelmed too easily. Not so much different from Vindi's dodge, who jumps high up in the air, travels a short distance and makes an attack in the end. Edit: I know that Mirages sword ambush lunges you to your enemy. The ambush can still work like that, but teleport can work defensively at first, to counter your enemies attack. After teleport you lunge at that enemy when the ambush activates. Edited July 1, 2023 by AshkyLicious.4729 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega.5791 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: Yes, but others have several built in fast ways to clense the condition, mirage doesn't. ??? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Resolve https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Midnight (when traited) every shatter when traited every single phantasm skill (when traited and, admittedly, rarely used for this purpose) most of the (short range) teleports like staff 2, sword 3, Illusionary ambush also help a lot (when used of course) Mesmer had it bad with the patch. Barely (any?) new playstyles, nerfs and I still hate the alacrity way of mirage (and still will after the likely changes in July, still forcing double staff/keeping up as many staff clones as possible). I was hoping for some non-troll builds becoming possible but agree about devs seeming quite clueless what to do with mesmer in general. But everybody (except certain thief and warrior builds) struggles a lot with immobilize. Mirage still can deal with it exceptionally well when not ignoring the right tools, though, yes, it requires some consideration now. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Megametzler.5729 said: ??? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Resolve https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Midnight (when traited) every shatter when traited every single phantasm skill (when traited and, admittedly, rarely used for this purpose) most of the (short range) teleports like staff 2, sword 3, Illusionary ambush also help a lot (when used of course) Mesmer had it bad with the patch. Barely (any?) new playstyles, nerfs and I still hate the alacrity way of mirage (and still will after the likely changes in July, still forcing double staff/keeping up as many staff clones as possible). I was hoping for some non-troll builds becoming possible but agree about devs seeming quite clueless what to do with mesmer in general. But everybody (except certain thief and warrior builds) struggles a lot with immobilize. Mirage still can deal with it exceptionally well when not ignoring the right tools, though, yes, it requires some consideration now. all of these condi cleanses are terrible. EM used to be insane with 2 cleanses but at only not enough. null field stationary, AT misses 50% of the time. EM only on dodge and 1 cleanse, prestige cleanses 1 every 30s XD. shatter/midnight is in inspiration which means you are useless if you take them. Reality is as follows. Mesmer builds will AGAIN build 0 cleanse 3dps traitlines and hope to end the fight before they can get hit. if they get hit, they instantly die, no healing, no cleansing, no utility. 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega.5791 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said: all of these condi cleanses are terrible. EM used to be insane with 2 cleanses but at only not enough. null field stationary, AT misses 50% of the time. EM only on dodge and 1 cleanse, prestige cleanses 1 every 30s XD. shatter/midnight is in inspiration which means you are useless if you take them. Reality is as follows. Mesmer builds will AGAIN build 0 cleanse 3dps traitlines and hope to end the fight before they can get hit. if they get hit, they instantly die, no healing, no cleansing, no utility. Again, not saying mesmer is in a good state. But saying "all other classes can dodge during immobilize" or "mes has no fast (mass) condi cleanses" just shows utter lack of game knowledge. Which I simply had to clarify. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Megametzler.5729 said: Again, not saying mesmer is in a good state. But saying "all other classes can dodge during immobilize" or "mes has no fast (mass) condi cleanses" just shows utter lack of game knowledge. Which I simply had to clarify. ye and all of them are kitten, like sure you technically HAVE them but in practice they are trash. its as if I said that warrior can use rifle so warrior is a good range class. in theory you can hit someone from range but in practice warrior kittening sucks at it. 2 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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