So Relics will be vertical progression, power creep and pay to win? [Merged]

[leila.7962]

41 minutes ago, Sreoom.3690 said:

Please ANET, put this thread out of it's misery by releasing your update on how Legendary Runes will be impacted by the new relic system and your proposed resolution that will mitigate the loss of Legendary Equipment Functionality.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/relics-bring-new-equipment-to-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

"Legendary relics will be introduced to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure during one of the quarterly releases in 2024. These prestigious relics will offer the convenience of freely swapping between the various relic effects. Players who have already crafted legendary runes will be compensated with significant progress toward unlocking legendary relics. In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. We’ll be able to share more details when we are closer to the launch of legendary relics next year."

Key-words here are: NEXT YEAR.

As expected, they didn't have anything planned, so now they decided it's a next year thing. Kitten great.

Edited July 20, 2023 by leila.7962

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Sreoom.3690 said:

Please ANET, put this thread out of it's misery by releasing your update on how Legendary Runes will be impacted by the new relic system and your proposed resolution that will mitigate the loss of Legendary Equipment Functionality.

They already did. Crafting 7 legendary runes will give you part of the progress to legendary relic, that will be release somewhere in 2024.

That's the response i expected to see, but also definitely one i hoped to not see.

We can now consider the Legendary Assurance (as well as a promise to never invalidate your progress) to be null and void.

[DeathPanel.8362]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

We can now consider the Legendary Assurance (as well as a promise to never invalidate your progress) to be null and void.

It's been pointed out to you many times throughout this thread that no such "assurance" was made anywhere by ANET.

The documented promises were to not go beyond Ascended in quality, not to exceed level 80 cap, and that legendaries would have QOL to customize stat sets.

All of which remains true.

The main problem with many people is that whatever they hear they have translation software in their brain to translate into whatever they want to hear.

The gap between false expectations and reality is where resentment is born.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

It's been pointed out to you many times throughout this thread that no such "assurance" was made anywhere by ANET.

Okay. So, you agree. People making legendaries are in no way protected from futre gear changes and can be made to gear grind again whenever Anet will desire so.

[NateffEct.2930]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Okay. So, you agree. People making legendaries are in no way protected from futre gear changes and can be made to gear grind again whenever Anet will desire so.

Nothing has changed, Anet made a new equipment slot. Can’t expect new equipment slots to be included in your existing legendary equipment.

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I find it fascinating that you respond when you weren't even named in our posts.  The gentleman dost protest too much, methinks.

You don't have to be named in a post to reply to one. This is a public thread.

[Ashen.2907]

51 minutes ago, aesur.1457 said:

Nothing has changed, Anet made a new equipment slot. Can’t expect new equipment slots to be included in your existing legendary equipment.

Will a current legendary rune owner still be able to swap existing sixth tier bonuses on the fly upon SotO launch? Or is something actually changing as ANet states in their posts?

If the content of that new gear slot is something that you already had paid to have in your existing legendary gear slots it is not unreasonable to expect it to continue to be included.

Had this feature been completely additive there would not be the outcry against removing something that people had already grinded and/or paid real money for in order to sell it back to them. 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[vrauns.3215]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:34 AM, Dondarrion.2748 said:

It's amazing how people can go kittening crazy complaining about a new feature that we still don't know the details of.... has anything ever been p2w in GW2? Do you think Anet will suddenly change their entire doctrine and go down that route?

 

kitten, get a grip...

most of the runes are useless because of the bad combo of stat and special effects, and they are fixing that but here we are, people on the verge of doomsday.

[DeathPanel.8362]

45 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Okay. So, you agree. People making legendaries are in no way protected from futre gear changes and can be made to gear grind again whenever Anet will desire so.

There you go ahead translating things that were never said into headcanon.

There's no expectation of legendary equipment making you "protected" from new equipment slots in the future.

[DeathPanel.8362]

38 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You don't have to be named in a post to reply to one. This is a public thread.

I never said people can't reply.  I merely said it was fascinating to watch people response to something so vehemently to something that presumably isn't applicable or addressed to them.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I never said people can't reply.  I merely said it was fascinating to watch people response to something so vehemently to something that presumably isn't applicable or addressed to them.

Seeing your voiding responses, it wasn't directed at anyone or in any way relatedto this thread. And that's the point 🤷‍♂️

[Shadowmoon.7986]

The blog post pretty much said the 12 xpac relics will be account bound and better than core relics. With no overtunec especs how else will they make money?

[DeathPanel.8362]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Seeing your voiding responses, it wasn't directed at anyone or in any way relatedto this thread. And that's the point 🤷‍♂️

My initial response was to the person talking about how people are totally reluctant to any change.  My subsequent responses were to defend myself from vehement attacks because it apparently triggered some people.  If my subsequent responses weren't related to the thread than the people responding to me are even less on topic.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

My initial response was to the person talking about how people are totally reluctant to any change.  My subsequent responses were to defend myself from vehement attacks because it apparently triggered some people.  If my subsequent responses weren't related to the thread than the people responding to me are even less on topic.

What was not relevant to the thread was the very core of that made up "reluctance to change". It's a made up hyperbole/strawman to paint the issues people raised as something they're not. What exactly do you still not understand here?

Edited July 20, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Cuks.8241]

21 hours ago, Drizzly.4562 said:

Go ahead and point out the people opposed to the change itself.

Since I started about employees I might as well stir it again. First of all the term was reluctant to changes, not opposing. Yeah its a semantic but I think its important in this context.

It was just general observation since its also something I deal often with within my work team where due to the nature of our job the only constant is constant changes. There are always a few in teams that are conservative and reluctant to changes. Nothing wrong with that, they serve as a conservative check. But if you want to advance you need changes so too many like that will stop the advancements. This forum often reminds me of that and the poster I quoted triggered that.

Its not that they are firmly opposing changes. They just come up with many potential obstacles and problems that it can spread reluctance and pessimism (and in these threads also entitlement and greed). And while they might be correct on some points, sometimes you just need to take some risks, push through and solve it on the way, be flexible.

And its definitely relevant to this topic and forums in general. How often is 10 years old Anet's manifesto or promise brought up (and sometimes just made up)? It was definitely brought up in this and other relevant threads. And no I will not point them out but you can see many people found themselves in that post from the heated response. If you want to be successful and stay relevant, the last thing you want to stick is to some 10 years old manifesto. I am happy Anet is willing to go against it if they deem it obsolete.

Also you can just read the title of the topic. I mean its not explicitly against, but I would say reluctance is a mild description.

[DeathPanel.8362]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

What was not relevant to the thread was the very core of made up "reluctance to change". It's a made up hyperbole/strawman to paint the issues people raised into something they're not.

Except that wasn't my comment.  That was the comment I responded to with a hypothetical.  Yet again you strawman by attributing that initial comment to me and started a chain of vehement attacks.  You derailed the discussion with this nonsense, and now you accuse me of being off-topic.  Ironic.

[Astralporing.1957]

46 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

There's no expectation of legendary equipment making you "protected" from new equipment slots in the future.

So, again, you agree. Legendary status is useless as far as protection from gear changes goes.

[DeathPanel.8362]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, again, you agree. Legendary status is useless as far as protection from gear changes goes.

There were no promises implied or otherwise that legendaries made you immune from additions of other gear slots.

 

 

[Seu Nim Rayne.6321]

This thread is too long and too full of bickering and I'm not reading all of that lol Adding my two cents for Anet.

I'm upset because a functionality that I worked for to better my account is being removed, and parts of that function are being put into a different system that will at least partially negate the work that I did. I believe this sets a very bad precedence for the game, as a whole. Legendary equipment and the lack of a constant gear grind is part of what makes this game so approachable for people who do have lives. If it's no longer going to be that way, I don't see me staying active for very long.

I've been here since launch, and my account has never moved backwards in progression until now.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Since I started about employees I might as well stir it again. First of all the term was reluctant to changes, not opposing. Yeah its a semantic but I think its important in this context.

It was just general observation since its also something I deal often with within my work team where due to the nature of our job the only constant is constant changes. There are always a few in teams that are conservative and reluctant to changes. Nothing wrong with that, they serve as a conservative check. But if you want to advance you need changes so too many like that will stop the advancements. This forum often reminds me of that and the poster I quoted triggered that.

Its not that they are firmly opposing changes. They just come up with many potential obstacles and problems that it can spread reluctance and pessimism (and in these threads also entitlement and greed). And while they might be correct on some points, sometimes you just need to take some risks, push through and solve it on the way, be flexible.

And its definitely relevant to this topic and forums in general. How often is 10 years old Anet's manifesto or promise brought up (and sometimes just made up)? It was definitely brought up in this and other relevant threads. And no I will not point them out but you can see many people found themselves in that post from the heated response. If you want to be successful and stay relevant, the last thing you want to stick is to some 10 years old manifesto. I am happy Anet is willing to go against it if they deem it obsolete.

Also you can just read the title of the topic. I mean its not explicitly against, but I would say reluctance is a mild description.

If someone's agains the change, it can mean they're too conservative. But it can also mean that the change is just plain bad. You keep pretending as if the second option does not exist.

In reality, it's quite rare for GW2 community to get so strongly opposed to a change. Sure, there's always some level of complains, but normally it's quite mild and only barely noticeable. Only when real kitten hits the fan does a bigger negative response arises. And, from my experience, most of the time that response is very spot-on and completely appropriate.

In short, people are not opposing this change because they are "conservative" or "reluctant to changes". They oppose it because there are some really major issues with it.

[WRay.2391]

36 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

There were no promises implied or otherwise that legendaries made you immune from additions of other gear slots.

 

 

There is significant difference between adding new weapon slot and adding new weapon slot while splitting parameters on existing slot and putting it into new one.
Just adding slot does not invalidate progress. Latter though is invalidating existing progress while trying to pretend is just something "new".

Considering situation with relics, IMO change is good by itself, it will POTENTIALLY create more interesting options. They should implement legendary relics faster though and provide adequate compensation for existing legendary equipment owners to not loose community trust.

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You keep pretending as if the second option does not exist.

Where do I pretend that there aren't bad changes? I even wrote about conservative check which I see as a positive. You're making stuff up.

Rare for the gw2 community to get worked up about changes? I've never seen any community cling to some 10 years old ideals even remotely close to this one. Getting so triggered because they added 1 equipment slot after 10 years 🙃 but I guess they promised.

[DeathPanel.8362]

29 minutes ago, WRay.2391 said:

There is significant difference between adding new weapon slot and adding new weapon slot while splitting parameters on existing slot and putting it into new one.
Just adding slot does not invalidate progress. Latter though is invalidating existing progress while trying to pretend is just something "new".

Except it is new.  If you read ANET's statements relics will have a large number of new effects never before seen.  The flexibility of being able to combine old and new effects with stats that you want brings a whole new meta.

 

[DeathPanel.8362]

19 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Where do I pretend that there aren't bad changes? I even wrote about conservative check which I see as a positive. You're making stuff up.

First time?  See what I was talking about now?  Some people will simply hear what they want to hear regardless of what they were told.

The sad part is ANET didn't even promise any of that.  Just like what they did to your post they took ANET's words and translated it internally into what they want to hear and are now holding ANET to their made-up head canon promises.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Delete one item functionality, add the same functionality with other name and sell it as content. LOL
Can't wait for the next xpac "we created a new item, called socks which has armor and can use a rune, as we implement this item on game we'll delete the armor rating of shoes and the hability of shoes to get a rune. new content baby!"

This game is nothing but a meme.