DONT LISTEN TO THIS ANTI-CMC PROPAGANDA

[Morwath.9817]

15 hours ago, Hellz.3058 said:

I ask my fellow Guild Wars 2 PvPers to not listen to the propaganda screaming ele is broken. In reality it is in a less than decent state as of this current moment

Two changes I can propose off the top of my head are

Make scepter 1200 range on all skills

Make The Trident skill Unblockable just like Phoenix

I think removing CD from Earth Shield would solve all problems!

[Dorsai.1458]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Personally I think the cata jade mechanics giving 1 stability stack is balanced (the instants from trait/aura are not), however, even 2 stack could easily be negated by 2 quick stability specific attacks followed by a stun, but this option is not available to most, and was/is way to easy to boonrip for those who can.

Stability on instant demand is only justifiable against SB, becuase the amount of stuns it can do is just toxic. For most other classes, who may only have 1 or 2 CC options, I think instant stability is just a cheap counter that can be used in toxic burst openers. However, the burst 1 class can do in this game also makes 1 or 2 stuns toxic, dmg also needs to be tuned right down (along with support having many abilities changed to single target application).

 

I agree with how easy it is to gain might, quickness and fury etc. Cata gets a lot of heat, but I think people need to bench their bias hate and look at the raw mechanics of it. The jades don't do much dmg at all, they are specifically used (and require combo for stability) to gain boons. The instant boons from Jades also require some effort to place in the correct place, since people don't just stand still. This means they are a seperate mechanic, a seperate ''game'' from just doing damage, you have to conciously do two seperate things (3 including the combo) at the same time. I don't think losts of boons are bad if they actually take some concious effort to attain.

 

 

 

I have a level 2 hammer cata now.  Bought a hammer and cut and paste a metabattle build.  It's unbelievably easy lol.  So much passive defense and boon vomit without effort.  Landing jade sphere under someone is not hard at all.  

Really ...stop trying to make it sound like cata is not way overtuned.  It's more busted than Bladesworn at launch of EOD (and they took stab away from BS .....guess that being in stunlock sucks only applies to Elems?

[Marxx.5021]

Just take a look on the new Signet Condi Cata. The new "Written in Stone" is somewhat broken. Compare this with other reduce skill recharge changes of other classes. It is not just about bias of some game designer.  It is about damaging the product.

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

1 hour ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

I have a level 2 hammer cata now.  Bought a hammer and cut and paste a metabattle build.  It's unbelievably easy lol.  So much passive defense and boon vomit without effort.  Landing jade sphere under someone is not hard at all.  

Really ...stop trying to make it sound like cata is not way overtuned.  It's more busted than Bladesworn at launch of EOD (and they took stab away from BS .....guess that being in stunlock sucks only applies to Elems?

Yes agree, as said ele was since game release the most braindead spam and facetank class, even the more squishy builds like lr or fa are not hard to play and have very unhealthy mechanics. There is no other class i feel so bored during playing since it is so easy and spammy. 

It is the biggest myth that ele ever was hard to play. Ele just has some more buttons you need to learn at start but in the end you just have more buttons to waste in your sleepy rotations with barely any punishment.  

[Flowki.7194]

8 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

What kind of zaza are you on to have these takes.
Stab, resist, prot, dodges and multiple key boons are broken on cata on top of it having high mobiilty, high power and condi dmg and weakness application and constant aoe cleave. You are extremely biased when u are trying to justify this spec.
Also the specs are not balanced based on how hard it is to play them. why cant ele mains learn this since the beginning of the game.

 

You are only short sighted in looking at cata in it's totality. Read what I wrote again, and look at it from a mechanical point of view. Dmg, sustain and all the rest of it can be toned down by reductions in effect, or increased cooldowns, however, the mechanical side is complicated in how the dmg or mitigation is achieved, and more classes should be like it. Can't you even concede that point, or does your cata hate run that deep? Vidni is one of the few specs I have played that come close to the kind of mechanical complexity of even core ele.

 

For the record, I started out as core ele, core gaurd, and then spent most of the time playing tempest, while also playing things like necro, scrapper, herald, hollow, ren, vindi support. I now play cata a lot more, but not the meta FA/focus. I am in no way bias toward cata, other than the objective statement that ele in genereal is mechanically more complicated which I like, and has to work for its sustain and damage output in a way that feels earned (although clearly cata meta spec in the hands of a good player is doing too good). 9/10 catas are bad, you know it.. If you don't think that is true, then feel free to explain why mid/low ranked is overwhelmed with necros, warriors and mesmers. I'd much rather vs a Cata than any of those specs, because the chance of the cata being an easy kill is much higher due to its complexity and punishment for mistakes.

 

An example of some real toxic mechanics is thief. Regardless of its meta status, the ability to take on any fight (even 2v1), and then escape as soon as you know its not going your way is horrendous mechanics, as it is the absolute king of low risk high reward. It is also absolutely toxic that the amount of mobility a thief has, means he can spend the entire game completely avoiding pvp, and just back cap, nobody can do much about it or waste a huge amount of time if so. It is not that hard to achieve that unkillable mobility.. and it is far harder to constantly have to defend against a thief doing it. Nobody seems to care about this? while stealth is by far one of the most broken things in this game.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

I have a level 2 hammer cata now.  Bought a hammer and cut and paste a metabattle build.  It's unbelievably easy lol.  So much passive defense and boon vomit without effort.  Landing jade sphere under someone is not hard at all.  

Really ...stop trying to make it sound like cata is not way overtuned.  It's more busted than Bladesworn at launch of EOD (and they took stab away from BS .....guess that being in stunlock sucks only applies to Elems?

Its easy to smash buttons, its not easy to smash the right buttons at the right time, and their are more buttons to press, so go figure. As far as jades go, the idea is to land the jades over the area where you think the enemy is moving into, keeping them just on the edge for the combo, so that you actually get some of the benefit of boon ticks as you pass through it. Keep playing hammer cata, once you get to nonebrainded players you will soon see how hard it is to drop the likes of water jade in the right position to get enough combos out of it. There are reasons you rarerly see hammer cata, SB for example is simply easier, and just as, if not more effective, keep playing and see.

 

Weaver is the same. Its more complicated and cumbersome to achieve what most other specs can do with far less effort. It is litterally the reason not many people play it.. becuase the effort to reward is just not worth it, unless you simply love the playstlye. If weaver was in meta then no doubt more would play it, but not as many as you think, becuase it is very cumbersome (the effect of over complexity), just like hammer cata (although weaver a lot more so).

Edited June 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Just take a look on the new Signet Condi Cata. The new "Written in Stone" is somewhat broken. Compare this with other reduce skill recharge changes of other classes. It is not just about bias of some game designer.  It is about damaging the product.

People complain quite a lot about FA cata, and the amount of immunes. The signet changes and dagger off hands I feel was an effort to entice more ele players into earth line and off hand. That would reduce the amount of blind, supper speed, or immunes. The signets are powerful, but you can't forget that fire is mostly pointless if power, aside from stability stack and some crit. You also lose crit immunity, a key reason to take earth in the first place, while earth line also favours condi damage if any. Water signet is good, but with the amount of condi now, this would either force you to keep fire line/focus for transmutes, or use a clense heal rather than the signet. The earth signet root is good, but if not condi, that does not seem to be direct upgrade over other utility, while its use is also brodcasted. So then you have to ask if only using 1 or 2 signets, is it even worth being in earth line, or not taking stoneheart. 

 

I personally really like the signet changes becuase it fits in with my own tempest dps playstyle, and its also another option for condi/hybrid cata. With that said, people complain alot about tempest reflect spam. Playing with signets is more of a dps single target deal, that means the tempest is less likely to be aura sharing. Again, the less signets you use, the less sense it makes to take it, so to me, 3 are minimum to make up for the loss of stoneheart. You really feel not having it when a scrapper/thief/willbender jumps you.

   

Edited June 29, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[ArthurDent.9538]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 9/10 catas are bad, you know it.. If you don't think that is true, then feel free to explain why mid/low ranked is overwhelmed with necros, warriors and mesmers.

Everyone who plays cata climbs out of the mid/low ranks into higher ranks leaving none left in low tiers. Seems like a logical explanation to me considering the hyper overabundance of catas in plat games.

[AlPower.2476]

They have no stab nor reflects. They should give 'em more.

Also don't forget to nerf the rest of classes

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

15 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

I think removing CD from Earth Shield would solve all problems!

Nah make it a kit that you can swap in and out freely. 

[Flowki.7194]

20 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Only demonstrating a lack of knowledge.

I mentioned evade not dodges, the only part I referenced dodges was when I said you get both of them back while chaining distortion and evades from mirrors. Also dodges are different for mirage so no, you're also wrong to say dodges don't count in the way I mentioned.
I also didn't say sustain, I said defences, the subtle difference is sustain I tend to also bundle health regeneration into this while defence I consider once it's gone you take a hit that you will find it difficult to come back from. Mesmer notoriously has awful healing while ele has good active and passive defences as well as good active and passive healing. I consider easy access to regen and heals that happen through normal play to be passive just so we're all clear.

Ele having more buttons to press does not equate to it being more active, especially when the cool down management is actually a lot easier when you learn how things will be up by rotation. Example being for non weaver builds your number 2 skill will always be ready next time you jump into that attunement (not stance btw) and skill 3 will usually be ready every 2nd attunement. Skill 4 and 5 is usually 3rd or 4th depending on how much CMC buffs and reduces the cool downs the best players are playing ele and winning.

Dodges have mutliple dual or situational effects (other than just evading damage) for various specs across most classes, so please don't act like alternate mechanics for dodging is special to the mesmer. Dodges do not count, we all have them, along with mechanics to be used aside from evading a direct attack.

 

Call it sustain, call it defense, we are both talking about the same thing; buttons you press to not die, the more you have to press, the longer it takes, the more you have to press, the more room for error, thats basic laws of physics and nature. Buttons across more stances means you also increase the chance of getting locked out of needed ''atunememts'' (sorry, wow warrior days). This essentially means you can be punished very fast for going into the wrong attunement at the wrong time. You are either locked out of sustain, or locked out of damage. Just about all of the abilities have situational uses, and to just go into random stances spaming abilities is the reason 9/10 eles are easy kills, its not about cooldowns. It is more difficult for other classes to make such mistakes, because at best they have 1 weapon swap (the likes of vindi aside). Scrapper has nade set, but its not exactly on a cooldown, and the more complicated engi specs are not currently being used, its afk mech specs, or 5 button burst scrapper, or occasional hollow. 

 

Ele is very strong, OP in the hands of the best players, I keep conceding this point. But you also seem unable to concede the point that despite that issue, the ele is still a complicated class relitive to what the other GW2 specs can achieve with half the buttons, and half the stance, attunments, or what ever the case may be. You have to understand why that is even possible, go look at the amount of effects gaurdian gets across a few of its abilities, same with necro, warrior and on. Many effects in dmg/sustain/mobility in 1 button. Ele has some of that too, but clearly not near as much, given double the buttons (not even counting earthern shield).

 

 

 

 

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Everyone who plays cata climbs out of the mid/low ranks into higher ranks leaving none left in low tiers. Seems like a logical explanation to me considering the hyper overabundance of catas in plat games.

That is not true, at all. I see catas in ranked maybe every third game, and mostly they are not very good at it, they die way easier than all of the more common mid/low rank specs. Its like attacking a bad scrapper, only knows how to rush in and nuke.

 

I have seen more Catas over the last few days after the patch, but im pretty certain thats people jumping on the bandwaggon thinking its been buffed, its easy, its a free ride to plat. Also I would assume a lot of those players are ex necro/mesmers looking for the next easy fix, cata isn't it.. and I bet cata representation will drop again once they realise its way harder than the haters give it credit.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Vinny.7260]

Nooooo. You guys got too serious! I was laughing until I saw the walls of text! 😭

 

Buff Catalyst, Tempest, and Weaver. Especially Catalyst! It practically has no boons and does zero damage... It's practically unfair when they have to press so many buttons.

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:46 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

That is not true, at all. I see catas in ranked maybe every third game, and mostly they are not very good at it, they die way easier than all of the more common mid/low rank specs. Its like attacking a bad scrapper, only knows how to rush in and nuke.

 

I have seen more Catas over the last few days after the patch, but im pretty certain thats people jumping on the bandwaggon thinking its been buffed, its easy, its a free ride to plat. Also I would assume a lot of those players are ex necro/mesmers looking for the next easy fix, cata isn't it.. and I bet cata representation will drop again once they realise its way harder than the haters give it credit.

Its entirely bust, I only play ele and have my own builds that do very well in pvp that are not meta, but when i switched to cata it to try it without even learning the final detail around combos and play I was just destroying people through sustain and dmg. 

Its an absolute design mess, I refuse to play it because its broken, but it feels like i'm fighting against an unfair build when i don't use it, so now i'm starting to avoid pvp for the first time in years.

Tio fix it they should only be proccing from combos rather than aura.

[Loboling.5293]

Churning earth needs a leap finisher and should blast twice. I also propose that it drops a multi field just before that acts as EVERY combo field at once. 

 

Just a little qol improvement for ele.

 

Also consider making fire scepter autos deal 1.5x base power damage. I think right now it takes too many autos to kill tank builds. It should be 3-4 at most.😏

 

Ps: Please don't ban me, got a suspension last time I made a bad joke on the forum. I claimed that the mirage on launch became so powerful they manifested into reality and had taken over arena net headquarters. Was my first infraction.😅

 

Pps: my suggestions are jokes, please don't follow through CMC 

[Anaston.2840]

On 28/06/2023 at 20:16, Hellz.3058 said:

Peço aos meus colegas PvPers de Guild Wars 2 que não ouçam a propaganda gritando que ele está quebrado. Na realidade, está em um estado menos que decente a partir deste momento atual

Duas mudanças que posso propor de cabeça são

Faça o alcance do cetro 1200 em todas as habilidades

Torne a habilidade do Tridente Imbloqueável como a Fênix

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Burnfall.9573]

2 hours ago, Loboling.5293 said:

Churning earth needs a leap finisher and should blast twice. I also propose that it drops a multi field just before that acts as EVERY combo field at once. 

 

Just a little qol improvement for ele.

 

Also consider making fire scepter autos deal 1.5x base power damage. I think right now it takes too many autos to kill tank builds. It should be 3-4 at most.😏

 

Ps: Please don't ban me, got a suspension last time I made a bad joke on the forum. I claimed that the mirage on launch became so powerful they manifested into reality and had taken over arena net headquarters. Was my first infraction.😅

 

Pps: my suggestions are jokes, please don't follow through CMC 

at least you are learning. Mentioning anything about Anet headquarters is called to the FBI and NSA. Be grateful that Anet moderator is understanding with having a caring human heart/

With the rise of A.I, if the moderator was an A.I you would of end up in Federal Prison.

[Flowki.7194]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, Dorsai.1458 said:

I have a level 2 hammer cata now.  Bought a hammer and cut and paste a metabattle build.  It's unbelievably easy lol.  So much passive defense and boon vomit without effort.  Landing jade sphere under someone is not hard at all.  

Really ...stop trying to make it sound like cata is not way overtuned.  It's more busted than Bladesworn at launch of EOD (and they took stab away from BS .....guess that being in stunlock sucks only applies to Elems?

So whats the verdict on hammer cata, have you played around none brainded Untamed/SB's and realised its not just spam buttons and ''I win''? Have you learned to not spam jades under the enemy becuase thats absolutely not how to do it?

 

I eagerly await an update.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So whats the verdict on hammer cata

If take away Scepter Cata, Hammer is still the strongest class/build.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If take away Scepter Cata, Hammer is still the strongest class/build.

What? that is just not true at all. Even a decent deadeye would just kite it to death or boredom..  hammer has ZERO mobility.

 

If you take away scepter cata, scepter DPS tempest is also very strong, it will be stronger than condi cata if stability is taken off signets, as tempest has far more ''stand in fire stance and auto attack'' sustain. Even worse case, dagger/dagger cata will still be better than hammer, simply for it having more mobility. Sustain, dps and w/e is absolutely useless if you have no way of maintaining optimal range.

[Dorsai.1458]

10 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So whats the verdict on hammer cata, have you played around none brainded Untamed/SB's and realised its not just spam buttons and ''I win''? Have you learned to not spam jades under the enemy becuase thats absolutely not how to do it?

 

I eagerly await an update.

As a new bandwagon Cata player (wanted to see what the fuss was about as I have never played elem before), I've been messing with a ton of specs and variations.  Scepter/Dagger signet cata is straight lol is SPVP.  I die only when gang-banged and I panic and forget how to swap to lightning and ride my way out of danger.  In WvW, I'm in all exotics rolling everyone I see in 1v1 except celestial harbs.  I have a better understanding of cata mechanics, but the muscle memory isn't just there yet.  Even then, I make a ton of mistakes but the passive damage reduction and aura spam usually ends in enemy death or they run away and ride the lightning is on CD.

In my build, I can almost have about 75% uptime on protection ...minimum 30% damage reduction, constant 25 stacks of might (using scepter lol).  In most fights so far, I've never had to move out of fire or earth attunement.  I only use lightning for the mobility and sometimes CC.

[Asra.8746]

The solution is really simple.

Increase initiative cost of all the thief skills some more.

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

As a new bandwagon Cata player (wanted to see what the fuss was about as I have never played elem before), I've been messing with a ton of specs and variations.  Scepter/Dagger signet cata is straight lol is SPVP.  I die only when gang-banged and I panic and forget how to swap to lightning and ride my way out of danger.  In WvW, I'm in all exotics rolling everyone I see in 1v1 except celestial harbs.  I have a better understanding of cata mechanics, but the muscle memory isn't just there yet.  Even then, I make a ton of mistakes but the passive damage reduction and aura spam usually ends in enemy death or they run away and ride the lightning is on CD.

In my build, I can almost have about 75% uptime on protection ...minimum 30% damage reduction, constant 25 stacks of might (using scepter lol).  In most fights so far, I've never had to move out of fire or earth attunement.  I only use lightning for the mobility and sometimes CC.

You are fighting newbs, go in the arena, find a true gold/plat, and stay in fire stance. Most of the issue right now is peopl are simply not use to fighting condi, since power is so previlent, and the current supports/dps loadouts reflect it. I play vindi support more often in ranked now, and I very much look forward to playing agaisnt signet catas, as its an absolute hard counter. I dueled a condi necro just yesterday, who was basically shocked at how strong it is, he gave up. Dodge removes a condition, totem has a clense, dome is a clense combo field, there is a clense within alliance. If condi cata is not nerfed then the meta will (or should) shift do cent support of some sort.. its truly the hard counter.

 

On core power ele/condi dps tempest I also kill newb catas very easily, as I also bring extra clenses to the fight. I can't kill a decent condi cata on core or power cata, becuase the signet stability is just too much for the opener. I can still do very well on dps condi tempest, and once (if) stability on signets is removed for cata, dps tempest will wipe the floor with condi cata. Thats the elephant in the room for anybody who plays dps tempest, they know its not far behind the current condi cata.. and it doesnt depend on gimmik stability spam. I just hope they don't wreck dps tempest when they nerf cata, its the stability alone on signets that needs to go (slight meta shift to decent condi clense will do the rest).

Edited July 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Nepster.4275]

Make Sunspot trigger on all attunements

Make auras twice as long 

Frost aura should give +20% damage reduction, and while under the effect of it conditions cannot be applied to the caster 

Also remove stoneheart and give it's effect on auras by default so u can take another GM trait and still have the effect 

Like, ele is a light armor class with low health pool, it needs some defense