History behind cmc's balancing decisions and policies

[RedAvenged.5217]

I would like to say i am not posting this as some kindof mass expose. I am posting it because- despite the fact that it was done in front of multiple hundreds of people on discord, that anet never publicized it and to this day not all players know.

1.) Cmc's hiring, one of the major aspects was that it was done in partnership with a discord called "Welcome to pvp" and was Touted as "anet finally listening to the community"

- this was a discord made to promote streamers, by Eu players, and only the streamers they liked. If you were a say legendary+ streamer that they didnt liked you werent allowed

- in this discord, CMC gave private conference calls to all the sponsered streamers to have them tell him what to do for balance.

2.) CMC's Banishment, for multiple reasons including bannable behavior, cmc was forbidden from communicating "with the community"(Anets own words) any further.

- this only included the "welcome to pvp discord" really. It was dubbed as "CMC Has Been Locked Up!"

3.) CMC shadow meetings, after his "banning" from the "community meetings", CMC began to try and confirm the theories he received in the meetings with streamers in private

- for example he met with streamer "Arken" to discuss Guardian and brought up removing the symbols trait: which Arken confirmed would make guardian stronger(this makes no sense)

                - a week or 2 later he giga nerfed symbols and basically removed firebrand from the game, with guardian player approval????

4.) CMC memes, funny quotes he came up with while conducting shadow meetings

- "Rev is a class that top players favor and top players tend to win" "smthing smthing about nade engi not being op"

5.) CMC " unchained", Anet hires streamers like Roy and teapot to promote good balance news and start tournaments

- note: teapot literally streamed with titles " CMC Unchained", this was a counter gag to the old "CMC Has Been Locked UP" meme

- they help behind the scenes and at least roy is official anet guild etc. all as CMC back up team #1

Anyways, this is all things I have seen on discord along with hundreds of other players. I hope this gives you perspective- for better or worse.

Honestly I hope this game lives, because I like to play it and obviously telling the truth about it is the best way to go...

thanks,

Red

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i always appreciate some easy to read lore. thanks for this

[AlchemistRai.7596]

with how the nerfs on the 27th where mostly nerfs to wvw done to the whole game i'd believe this

[phokus.8934]

Hire Roy with  no game design experience, let alone working experience, and put him under Cal as part of the overall balance team.  What could possibly go wrong?  June patches.  It's truly amazing how two people can kill an already dead horse.

[Hotride.2187]

40 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

Hire Roy with  no game design experience, let alone working experience, and put him under Cal as part of the overall balance team.  What could possibly go wrong?  June patches.  It's truly amazing how two people can kill an already dead horse.

Just look at the wvw boonrip nerfs.

[Khalisto.5780]

I'd like him to stop nerfing core classes in order to nerf elites, what he has done to core mesmer to give back second mirage dodge is just meh, also we know he's going for core again to nerf cata, when the issue is clearly cata.

[Enduronex.4865]

4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Just look at the wvw boonrip nerfs.

And just look at his highfalutin behavior towards the community in general whenever people have balance concerns.  The hierarchy of partners, streamers, top ranked players, and ANet employees that controls balance is a club none of us are a part of.   That's why they can keep getting away with all the excrement they do.

[Gendalfs.7521]

It all makes sense now. Ty OP.

[GetFoxxed.9478]

6.) CMC (and the other guy) fired because they can't even address complaints made by the community and release balance patches month after everyone and their mother told them it's a bad idea.

Edited July 3, 2023 by GetFoxxed.9478

[Chiral.8915]

I can just imagine the bullet points in the OP's post on little postcards stuck on a foam board with different colored strands of yarn connecting them....

[lotus.5672]

17 minutes ago, Chiral.8915 said:

I can just imagine the bullet points in the OP's post on little postcards stuck on a foam board with different colored strands of yarn connecting them....

who is pepe silvia?

[offence.4726]

My oh my , what happened to this game ? Came back after a longish brake where cata's we're busted and ruining the pvp scene to check back and see that nothing changed but everything else getting nerfed except them.

Can't wait to see the player dip next quarter.

Edited July 5, 2023 by offence.4726

[Dreams.3128]

22 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

I'd like him to stop nerfing core classes in order to nerf elites, what he has done to core mesmer to give back second mirage dodge is just meh, also we know he's going for core again to nerf cata, when the issue is clearly cata.

Intelligent people and people that can actually read their skills know that this has been the case for literally every spec that had a problematic e-spec. I am thoroughly convinced people and him purely do not have two dam ns anymore about class balance.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[Arken.3725]

Arken here:

 

I suggested a nerf/removal of symbol traits not to make it stronger but to remove(or minimize) a boring mechanic that was strong within the Conquest mode of pvp.  

[Roadkizzle.2157]

24 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

Arken here:

 

I suggested a nerf/removal of symbol traits not to make it stronger but to remove(or minimize) a boring mechanic that was strong within the Conquest mode of pvp.  

What were the changes to the symbol traits?

That was before I started playing but I'm trying to understand the history of the game.

[Leonidrex.5649]

33 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

What were the changes to the symbol traits?

That was before I started playing but I'm trying to understand the history of the game.

back then symbol trait made them bigger, due to that people would take guard to sidenodes, place them in the middle of the nodes and you either gave up node, or are forced to facetank the damage. they guy was correct in making them weaker

[Arken.3725]

37 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

What were the changes to the symbol traits?

That was before I started playing but I'm trying to understand the history of the game.

My suggestion was to change them to something new in its entirety to something more enjoyable than standing in a small circle for many seconds.  

[RedAvenged.5217]

The removal of symbols was mentioned in the original meetings- and I quote: “guardian will never be viable as long as symbols exist”.

later on Arken said on the forums and to me the same exact thing.

I mentioned “what makes you think removing the only viable thing about guard will make it stronger”

I got negative comments and unfriended by arken in game

[RedAvenged.5217]

I don’t think ascribing numerous builds and play styles, by the balance team and their secret teams:

as being builds and skills for “degenerates and their allies “, is right

i am here to help the Average Player, not anything else

[RedAvenged.5217]

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

back then symbol trait made them bigger, due to that people would take guard to sidenodes, place them in the middle of the nodes and you either gave up node, or are forced to facetank the damage. they guy was correct in making them weaker

This build was only like A- teir at its peak- you had to kite like a god to survive 1v2 and still could easily lose a 1v1 to any dps meta build at the time.

it also was a 100-0 loss into the meta side noder of the time, decap engi

[certari.8672]

5 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

back then symbol trait made them bigger, due to that people would take guard to sidenodes, place them in the middle of the nodes and you either gave up node, or are forced to facetank the damage. they guy was correct in making them weaker

Any reason why ranged damage wouldn't work against a player stacking symbols and staying in the spot? Seems like the best counter-play for the scenario? Was guard over-performing defensively despite dealing a lot of damage by staying in one spot?

[melcor.1094]

I am not sure what op is complaining about? That Anet hired a dev without any clue about balance and then forbad him to talk to ppl who know their classes well enough to teach ppl? Or that CmC was in the discord in general? Or is it just a complain about the discord and not CmC?  

I don't know if the entry to that discord was limited like that, relying on some subjective relations or hate/ likes of the discord admins (that would be sad ofc,) but as far as i know this discord was way more open and less elitist than the often for good reasons blamed balance discord.

And i think the approach to ask class coaches to give feedback to the class they know good enough to teach them, ppl who have real passion for the game to take the time to help other ppl, is way better than asking some wannabe goods who prevent competition to keep free farming gizmos, which are more relationbased than skillbased since almost their whole existence or some top 10 wintrader.  Better than asking ppl who care more about manipulating the meta into their roasters favor or trying to compensate their lack in skill by making/ keeping their main class broken instead making the game fair, fun and skillbased.

Also keep in mind: Fame doesn't make you right. Being a big streamer is not an auto- entry for any community discord or a prove that your balance suggestions are good and if you are toxic you might don't deserve to be a pillar of the community and have to stay out of a discord which wants to help the community and the game instead feeding someones own ego.

I also don't see how a guard main suggesting healthy nerfs to his own class is a bad thing. I wish more ppl would be less biased towards their own class (and less biased against classes they don't play) and suggest changes bringing their class back to a skillful, not broken and not power creeped state.

I am not a CmC fan but all the post seems to tell me is, that CmC is maybe not even the main problem but some higher standing boss-devs who first of all hire the wrong ppl for the balance job and then even preventing them from getting input from the right ppl. Ppl who are neither elitist but also no gold buddies, who are knowledgeable about their own class at least (preferable some multiclass experience in addition), balance in general and also with an objective fair mindset. No ele fetish as happen currently.

Edited July 5, 2023 by melcor.1094

[Leonidrex.5649]

5 hours ago, certari.8672 said:

Any reason why ranged damage wouldn't work against a player stacking symbols and staying in the spot? Seems like the best counter-play for the scenario? Was guard over-performing defensively despite dealing a lot of damage by staying in one spot?

you could stand at range and shoot at him, but then you are off node and lose it 😄

[RedAvenged.5217]

6 hours ago, melcor.1094 said:

I am not sure what op is complaining about? That Anet hired a dev without any clue about balance and then forbad him to talk to ppl who know their classes well enough to teach ppl? Or that CmC was in the discord in general? Or is it just a complain about the discord and not CmC?  

I don't know if the entry to that discord was limited like that, relying on some subjective relations or hate/ likes of the discord admins (that would be sad ofc,) but as far as i know this discord was way more open and less elitist than the often for good reasons blamed balance discord.

And i think the approach to ask class coaches to give feedback to the class they know good enough to teach them, ppl who have real passion for the game to take the time to help other ppl, is way better than asking some wannabe goods who prevent competition to keep free farming gizmos, which are more relationbased than skillbased since almost their whole existence or some top 10 wintrader.  Better than asking ppl who care more about manipulating the meta into their roasters favor or trying to compensate their lack in skill by making/ keeping their main class broken instead making the game fair, fun and skillbased.

Also keep in mind: Fame doesn't make you right. Being a big streamer is not an auto- entry for any community discord or a prove that your balance suggestions are good and if you are toxic you might don't deserve to be a pillar of the community and have to stay out of a discord which wants to help the community and the game instead feeding someones own ego.

I also don't see how a guard main suggesting healthy nerfs to his own class is a bad thing. I wish more ppl would be less biased towards their own class (and less biased against classes they don't play) and suggest changes bringing their class back to a skillful, not broken and not power creeped state.

I am not a CmC fan but all the post seems to tell me is, that CmC is maybe not even the main problem but some higher standing boss-devs who first of all hire the wrong ppl for the balance job and then even preventing them from getting input from the right ppl. Ppl who are neither elitist but also no gold buddies, who are knowledgeable about their own class at least (preferable some multiclass experience in addition), balance in general and also with an objective fair mindset. No ele fetish as happen currently.

This discord was the balance discord

all the rumors you heard of a “toxic balance discord”, was from the same discord you are defending

Edited July 5, 2023 by RedAvenged.5217

[DanAlcedo.3281]

17 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

My suggestion was to change them to something new in its entirety to something more enjoyable than standing in a small circle for many seconds.  

Thats the most vague suggestion I have ever heard. 

"Just do something lawl" 

It does start to make more sense, the kitten we have seen over the years.