The best years of Guild Wars 2 are behind us

[loonatic.1689]

It deserves to be said that one of the reasons I'll continue to support Anet/gw is because of all the online games I've played in my life, I find their monetary policies to be the most fair. Permanent dyes and limitless changes on them, all outfits shared across all characters all the time (i can buy 1 outfit and concurrently use it on 69 characters), the legendary armory and all that it brings, expansions cost less than a battle pass in most other games, gold-to-gem exchange that allows you to buy ALMOST anything. These are huge player benefits, in comparison to say, a Lost Ark, who isn't going to get a dime out of me, but players will spend thousands to progress their characters. 

The question I find myself asking is if these benefits come at a detriment to the studio. We know content has not been the same since the layoffs, and we know there's a big undisclosed project in the works. Regardless, I'll be here having a good time, and hoping that Anet continue to be trendsetters in the MMO space when it comes to QOL, accessibility, and open world/event design. The writing...well, not everyone's cup of tea, but not terrible. It's obvious the tonality for most of the writing is in the semi-goofy/comical realm. 

[Hashberry.4510]

The game has finally chosen to cash in on what was a hidden gem of deal, can’t really blame them. I do wish things had wrapped up w EoD or even PoF and they had gone on to a new game and could do what they wanted. The current approach is just vandalism, I guess long running mmos are just going to fall to this if they run long enough.

[Akisohida.8963]

13 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

The game has finally chosen to cash in on what was a hidden gem of deal, can’t really blame them. I do wish things had wrapped up w EoD or even PoF and they had gone on to a new game and could do what they wanted. The current approach is just vandalism, I guess long running mmos are just going to fall to this if they run long enough.

Why? When EoD launched, they said they still had years of story content.

Why are people saying they wish the game would basically shut down? If you are tired of playing; don't play? Why should everyone else lose a game they enjoy?

[Batalix.2873]

2 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Why? When EoD launched, they said they still had years of story content.

Why are people saying they wish the game would basically shut down? If you are tired of playing; don't play? Why should everyone else lose a game they enjoy?

If it were *just* story content and not altering the core gameplay/profession as much as they are, I actually would have been more likely to buy it. 25 dollars for just story and two maps is totally fine by me. It's the taking a wrecking ball to especs, McMansioning on new weapons, and displaying absolutely no real coherent/responsible design vision with it all that is why I am not buying SotO.

If it turns out this was all holding back for a fourth set of especs with the weapons I actually would have wanted, maybe I will retroactively buy SotO. But I'm not optimistic: I was already excusing a lot of questionable EoD weapon choices with that same theory and here we are a year and a half later with the supposed "payoff" being even worse weapon additions.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Batalix.2873]

Update:

Handed in my two weeks to my raid static (who are, btw awesome people, go lookup Twilight Brigade [hack] if you want to get into raiding). After meditating on the urge to leave since SotO announced, I've decided this is the right path. I've been in this situation with other media, other hobbies, other relationships. When you're looking at a solid couple years of just not being in accord with something/someone, and the patterns repeat without signs of "getting better", you break things off. It's just psychologically unhealthy to keep trying to maintain hope this game will return to design sensibilities I agree with. I need a clean break to preserve my rather high opinions of the "old game" before it strays even further from its original principles and undoes more of its established edifices.

Maybe if they manage to streamline this "everyone autoboon ranged pewpew DPS go" paradigm into a new, distinct kind of gameplay--one that refines *that* model into something that is engaging and not just a bunch of non-choice and autoattacks (or otherwise broken spastic all-button melee rotations)--I will return and engage that game through its new strengths and merits. But as long as GW2 is still riding this line of appearing to still be the same old "strategic buildcraft" game while overwhelmingly pushing toward much simpler, skill/fail-proof combat and non-choice traits/weapons...I'm not really interested in sticking around to see how long they will drag out that process. And since so much of the game for me is grinding for legendaries just so I can have the flexibility to play around with builds, regularly narrowing/upending the espec system with all of these patches and now really reckless SotO additions has really just killed off a lot of my interest to continue pursuing those goals. Many of the builds I was working toward have changed drastically over the years, the meta has narrowed even more toward Mech/Virt/FB/Specter than it was on EoD launch, and given what SotO is and isn't doing I just don't have any faith that I will even want to play most of these classes in a few months.

So have fun, everyone. I'm gonna be heavily deprioritizing my engagement with this game.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Burnfall.9573]

2 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Update:

Handed in my two weeks to my raid static (who are, btw awesome people, go lookup Twilight Brigade [hack] if you want to get into raiding). After meditating on the urge to leave since SotO announced, I've decided this is the right path. I've been in this situation with other media, other hobbies, other relationships. When you're looking at a solid couple years of just not being in accord with something/someone, and the patterns repeat without signs of "getting better", you break things off. It's just psychologically unhealthy to keep trying to maintain hope this game will return to design sensibilities I agree with. I need a clean break to preserve my rather high opinions of the "old game" before it strays even further from its original principles and undoes more of its established edifices.

Maybe if they manage to streamline this "everyone autoboon ranged pewpew DPS go" paradigm into a new, distinct kind of gameplay--one that refines *that* model into something that is engaging and not just a bunch of non-choice and autoattacks (or otherwise broken spastic all-button rotations)--I will return. But as long as GW2 is still riding this line of appearing to still be the same old "strategic buildcraft" game while overwhelmingly pushing toward much simpler, skill/fail-proof combat and non-choice traits/weapons...I'm not really interested in sticking around to see how long they will drag out that process. And since so much of the game for me is grinding for legendaries just so I can have the flexibility to play around with builds, regularly narrowing/upending the espec system with all of these patches and now really reckless SotO additions has really just killed off a lot of my interest to continue pursuing those goals.

So have fun, everyone. I'm gonna be heavily deprioritizing my engagement with this game.

including this..

I realized that, there are game companies in the gaming market industry, who strive for learning do better. At each moment they grasp that opportunity, they instill it into their game, resulting in increasing their players experiences. 

Who strive in not in being 'the best combat' but in giving their players the best experience that they deserve.

Who strive in resolving problems instead of ignoring them, hiding them, pretending that they are not there, lying and deceiving their playerbase and its Community.

Who strive in putting their players experience first than profit.

Who strive in Forbidding: any Favoritism, Bias, Toxic Philosophy, Deceptive Marketing, Deceptive Communication, Toxic Culture, Lies for being the face of their company

Who invest in their players, its Community experiences...instead of appearance, its looks, its combat system.

Having one of the 'best combat' is not enough!

Can you imagine telling a job interview that, why should we hire you? is because, you are the best at doing something??

The interviewer would stare at you for few minutes than ask, what are your experiences to prove that you are the best at what you do.

That is Guild Wars 2; the only that the game is good at, is its combat system.

If you ask, what about Guild Wars 2 experience?  What experience?

Job Interview, "thank you for your time...we are looking for someone with experience"

-Guild Wars 2 would completely fail for a job interview...because that is all there is to its name. Because, that is what Anet invest in the game, that is what Anet only strive for; to make Guild Wars 2 the best combat in the gaming industry.

Nothing Else!!

Lasty, what Lessons has Anet  learned; aside from Guild Wars 2 combat system..in putting the players, the Community experience first before profit?

What lessons has Anet learned; aside from Guild Wars 2 combat system...to Communicate with the players and the Community?

What lessons has has Anet learned; aside from Guild Wars 2 combat system, in helping to dissolve; Toxicity, Favoritism, Bias, Exploits, Hacks, Toxic Philosophy and to resolve; Lack of Profession Identity, Lack of Profession Roles, Lack of Communication, Endless and repetitive rooted problems, ignoring our concerns etc..?

None!!

Everything that is happening to this game are under Anet watch. They are Tolerating everything that creates a Toxic experience to us; the Community.

Is it worth fighting for...giving more chances to...a game Company who...only sees itself in the mirror..not you?

 

"Some People Never Change. They Just Become More Of Who They Really Are"

--You Deserve Better, We Deserve Better, I Deserve Better--

Edited July 8, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Forum Moderator.3074]

Greetings, I would like to remind you all to please keep discussions civil and on topic.

[Hashberry.4510]

On 7/6/2023 at 9:20 PM, Akisohida.8963 said:

Why? When EoD launched, they said they still had years of story content

This sort of story content is found anywhere. What was the powerful draw for many was the combat system, as well as a world that did not degrade as time went on. The new team is casting that aside. Better to have left it alone and make the next title I bet we both would have loved it.

[Akisohida.8963]

11 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

This sort of story content is found anywhere. What was the powerful draw for many was the combat system, as well as a world that did not degrade as time went on. The new team is casting that aside. Better to have left it alone and make the next title I bet we both would have loved it.

Or it could be horrible, or even cancelled. No way of knowing.

I'm happy I'm getting more content for one of the only 2 MMOs I enjoy. (The other is D&D Online, but it's so old and really showing it's age. I'd kill for it to do a graphics/engine overhaul. Or even just a 5E D&D MMO that still stays 'action MMO' like DDO and GW2.)

[Batalix.2873]

18 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

This sort of story content is found anywhere. What was the powerful draw for many was the combat system, as well as a world that did not degrade as time went on. The new team is casting that aside. Better to have left it alone and make the next title I bet we both would have loved it.

Absolutely agree with this. Any piece of serial media can keep "writing story" indefinitely. Even if the original authorship moves on and is replaced by people with less ownership/care in the property or knowledge of what its core themes/values were. Even if the quality continues to sink lower into "content" instead of legitimately artistic or engaging ideas.

When GW2 announced they had a "new expansion", I took it to mean they had new mechanical ideas they wanted to introduce, and the story would just naturally form around them. When PR started talking about "more story" I generally didn't care about that at all, and figured it was just framing the expansion in a way to appeal to a different more Marvel-y consumer demographic. But turns out, SotO is just about *only* story and very little else, and it seems that "more story" was not a euphemism--it was literally their only real selling point (compared to all the smoke and mirrors that are all the other soto features).

Funny thing is, if they hadn't been working all of this up and just outright admitted to it just being a map/story expac, and not tried to inject it with all of these recycled half-attempts at "features" that undermine the old game, I would have bought it. But as it stands I am just tired of all the salesmanship and double-speak, not to mention the general impunity with which they are breaking old content and features. Whatever criticisms were thrown at HoT and PoF for being messy, at least there were some juicy cores of really innovative and thoughtful game design. The puffery was at least supported by something. Did not see that in EoD at all, and don't see it in SotO.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Kitta.3657]

I bought the most expensive version. Can't wait!

[sasya neko.1985]

the best years were over for about 6 years ago, i have yet to see something truly positive about Anet since they got greedy.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/8/2023 at 1:00 AM, Batalix.2873 said:

Update:

Handed in my two weeks to my raid static (who are, btw awesome people, go lookup Twilight Brigade [hack] if you want to get into raiding). After meditating on the urge to leave since SotO announced, I've decided this is the right path. I've been in this situation with other media, other hobbies, other relationships. When you're looking at a solid couple years of just not being in accord with something/someone, and the patterns repeat without signs of "getting better", you break things off. It's just psychologically unhealthy to keep trying to maintain hope this game will return to design sensibilities I agree with. I need a clean break to preserve my rather high opinions of the "old game" before it strays even further from its original principles and undoes more of its established edifices.

Maybe if they manage to streamline this "everyone autoboon ranged pewpew DPS go" paradigm into a new, distinct kind of gameplay--one that refines *that* model into something that is engaging and not just a bunch of non-choice and autoattacks (or otherwise broken spastic all-button melee rotations)--I will return and engage that game through its new strengths and merits. But as long as GW2 is still riding this line of appearing to still be the same old "strategic buildcraft" game while overwhelmingly pushing toward much simpler, skill/fail-proof combat and non-choice traits/weapons...I'm not really interested in sticking around to see how long they will drag out that process. And since so much of the game for me is grinding for legendaries just so I can have the flexibility to play around with builds, regularly narrowing/upending the espec system with all of these patches and now really reckless SotO additions has really just killed off a lot of my interest to continue pursuing those goals. Many of the builds I was working toward have changed drastically over the years, the meta has narrowed even more toward Mech/Virt/FB/Specter than it was on EoD launch, and given what SotO is and isn't doing I just don't have any faith that I will even want to play most of these classes in a few months.

So have fun, everyone. I'm gonna be heavily deprioritizing my engagement with this game.

Never play a game because of what it could or should be. Always play it for what it is. Two years is a long time to spend in disagreement. Glad you decided to do what's best for your mental health essentially.

[Batalix.2873]

9 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Never play a game because of what it could or should be. Always play it for what it is. Two years is a long time to spend in disagreement. Glad you decided to do what's best for your mental health essentially.

I enjoyed HoT/PoF for what they were amidst all that so it wasn't all doom and gloom. But those were always going to be finite experiences and now that I feel mostly done with them there has definitely been a reckoning.

[trunks.5249]

if star trek online has made it has long has it has then this game has an easily another decade

[Jianyu.7065]

It's all a matter of perspective in respect to what you get out of the game. There is no right or wrong answer/opinion to this. The game in its current state still has an abundance of wonder. After 1200 hours, I still feel like there is so much to do, and see. And now, having convinced my wife to finally play (who already games, just not GW2), there is a bit of vicarious "newness" for me. 

It's sad because GW2 IS one of those games that cultivates the kind of lasting memories that very few games do. I took a few years off, and the music of GW2 haunted me in my sleep. The only thing I can remotely compare this game to is Bioware's Neverwinter Nights. To this day, there are mementoed experiences that are very real and unforgettable. 

A while back a player posted here on the subject of what would be your biggest regret or something you'll never get a chance to do if GW2 ended today, and I answered that I wouldn't get to share this game with the woman I love. Now that this has come to pass, it has 100% revitalized any enjoyment for this game I may have felt fading. 

ANet has given us all something big or small. Something we have all closely cherished for one moment of many or another. It's a shame the taste has soured for some. 

That said - I welcome the future changes. I'm an old gamer and a gamer who believes change is good. While change doesn't always please the majority of people, I do believe restructuring old foundations leaves a strong platform to build anew - even if that platform is failure; at least it can only get better...

[eyelogix.1654]

On 7/3/2023 at 7:53 PM, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

I don't know about goldsellers in PvP, but we used to have a lot of those in PvE after launch. I haven't seen one in years. Can't say much more about PvP since I don't play it (and didn't in GW either).

 

I believe he means Team USA selling gizmos and titles for real money.

[Gravitron.7982]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:39 AM, Anvar.5673 said:

Since history tends to repeat itself, I don't see the game lasting more than 3 years in terms of new content.

Weak signals:

• There will not be any more Elite Specs since the balancing is impossible to be handled. That's ok but just give us more PvP game modes so.
• Mini-expansions are Icebrood Saga all over again but not free. Maybe it will not be the same at all (we will see) but please don't give us audio fillers each week for the 2 part release of the 3rd map.
• Not even one new building or music related to the Luxons in both Jade Sea maps. The game is full of recycling since our encounter with the Void and it will be the same with some new areas: "Discover a chain of islands high above Tyria, where distorted, alternate-universe reflections of the world below have taken on lives of their own."
  I'm a bit worried in the fact that developers don't have enough ressources to make new assets anymore.
• Wizard’s Vault are the new Zaishen's Quests who were initialy published to retain the playerbase till the launch of Guild Wars 2, alongside Guild Wars Beyond but it was a downfall anyway.
• The game is full of bots and afk players with alt-accounts on a lot of map and metas (like Tequalt or Dragonstorm) and PvP (ruled by goldsellers). ArenaNet could hire a part-time guy to definitively handle the problem but they don't want to invest in the future of their game since it will enter in maintenance mode soon.
• The PvP of Guild Wars 1 was for everyone and was a great part of your success, the Guild Wars 2's one is a failure.
• The marketing is awful. The trailers are more and more bad and we don't even know what's Bubble Tea in Europe.
• The core team is gone since a long time and remaining ones like Colin Johanson aren't working on Guild Wars 2.
• Most of new ArenaNet's jobs are for the unannounced game since months and those for Guild Wars 2 can be used for the other game.
• The developers doesn't listen their players since the begining and will not listen them anyway as they think we have nothing great to say even as customers.

I hope to see some developers to have some counter arguments to give but we can't go against the truth. ArenaNet don't seems to really want to seriously invest in Guild Wars 2 anymore.

I was reading through every single one of these bullet points absolutely trying to find fault in any of it, but alas.....I can't disagree with any points you've made, regardless of my efforts to do so. I completely agree with you.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

12 hours ago, eyelogix.1654 said:

I believe he means Team USA selling gizmos and titles for real money.

If you'd read my comment you'd know I know what a goldseller is. As stated in my comments we used to have a lot of those in PvE. Haven't seen one in nearly a decade. Apparently it's still a frequent occurence in PvP. And it doesn't matter who does it.

[Treacy.4067]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:12 AM, Neiara.9362 said:

 Every game is "dying". Literally no game will retain it's peak forever but as long as it generates enough money, it will keep existing. GW2 isn't going anywhere. I've played both wow (18 years) and ffxiv (3 years), and right now, I enjoy GW2 (2 months) more than either of them. This whole thread is pointless.

Their argument is that the game is going downhill, that its best years are behind it, and people who have been here for years see it and are concerned. I wouldn't call it pointless for them to say this if that's how they feel, when they do it because they care about the game. Constructive and valid criticism is good for games.  Of course someone that's only played 2 months would think everything is fine.  But you are right that the game will continue on, it will just be a shell of its former self and lose a lot of long time members of the community. This happens with every game at some point. I mean there are still games that are running but you wouldn't consider them alive really if that makes sense.  Let's take Rift as an example: I remember long time players sounding the alarm when the game was making very questionable choices and others putting their fingers in their ears and telling them to just quit if they don't like it. Well they did quit and the game took a nosedive. But I guess you can say the game is still technically up and running.

[Gravitron.7982]

58 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Their argument is that the game is going downhill, that its best years are behind it, and people who have been here for years see it and are concerned. I wouldn't call it pointless for them to say this if that's how they feel, when they do it because they care about the game. Constructive and valid criticism is good for games.  Of course someone that's only played 2 months would think everything is fine.  But you are right that the game will continue on, it will just be a shell of its former self and lose a lot of long time members of the community. This happens with every game at some point. I mean there are still games that are running but you wouldn't consider them alive really if that makes sense.  Let's take Rift as an example: I remember long time players sounding the alarm when the game was making very questionable choices and others putting their fingers in their ears and telling them to just quit if they don't like it. Well they did quit and the game took a nosedive. But I guess you can say the game is still technically up and running.

Yup, and just look what's about to happen to SWTOR now that Broadsword is taking over...it will be a shell of it's former self. People see that GW2 is already on this same path....a shell of it's former self. Basically, the OP is saying that the better years of GW2 have already happened, and that the years ahead, while there will be at least a few more years ahead, will be mediocre compared to the previous years. 

TLDR: The game peaked, and will never reach that level again, ever. It's all downhill at this point.

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:57 PM, loonatic.1689 said:

It deserves to be said that one of the reasons I'll continue to support Anet/gw is because of all the online games I've played in my life, I find their monetary policies to be the most fair. Permanent dyes and limitless changes on them, all outfits shared across all characters all the time (i can buy 1 outfit and concurrently use it on 69 characters), the legendary armory and all that it brings, expansions cost less than a battle pass in most other games, gold-to-gem exchange that allows you to buy ALMOST anything. These are huge player benefits, in comparison to say, a Lost Ark, who isn't going to get a dime out of me, but players will spend thousands to progress their characters. 

Its is on of the fairest system. While I may have issue with a couple gem store items, overall it is as consumer friendly it can be for a non-subscription Game, while keeping the lights on.

On 7/7/2023 at 3:06 AM, Hashberry.4510 said:

I guess long running mmos are just going to fall to this if they run long enough.

Fall is a strong word, it just get stretched to thin. It is just so many forces pulling at an MMO + the sheer amount of time the player expect from the game and the game in return from the player. If you are 6k hours deep, the game will get dry, even with the best decision and infinite resources. People will move on, living world as tax for non-active player was always a bad idea for the longevity of the game.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 7/3/2023 at 4:00 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

For those who say GW2 in top whatever, show your proof, because as I know theres no place you can get actual player numbers (except Steam, which is about 4,5k).

See, there's a REASON people disregard Steam numbers. People can come out with all kinds of 'reasons': "It doesn't represent the total player-base!1!" "Those are just the off-peak hours!1!"

But yet it is one of the only places where you can get concrete activity numbers. I have NOT....ONCE seen gw2 go above 3-4k. Loyalists can deny this until the cows come home.

[Akisohida.8963]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

See, there's a REASON people disregard Steam numbers. People can come out with all kinds of 'reasons': "It doesn't represent the total player-base!1!" "Those are just the off-peak hours!1!"

But yet it is one of the only places where you can get concrete activity numbers. I have NOT....ONCE seen gw2 go above 3-4k. Loyalists can deny this until the cows come home.

Except steam literally does not show the entire player-base, since most players got into GW2 before it ever came to steam.

Acting like the steam player base is a reflection of the true population just because it easily shows numbers is...incredibly incorrect.

[Royal Grand Majesty.9852]

Preach released a video recently about the new Augmentation Evoker spec in WoW and how it's slowly ending the Holy Trinity system.
The new spec will work similar to how boon offensive supports work in GW2.
It provides the group with 'Ebon Might' which increases damage and primary stats. [Similar to how 'Might' works in GW2, weird huh?]
We all know what the main selling point feature of the whole dragon flight expansion was.
If GW2 was really dying as you say, it's weird how WoW would try to implement some features from a 'dying' game into their own.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Royal Grand Majesty.9852