The best years of Guild Wars 2 are behind us

[Anvar.5673]

Since history tends to repeat itself, I don't see the game lasting more than 3 years in terms of new content.

Weak signals:

• There will not be any more Elite Specs since the balancing is impossible to be handled. That's ok but just give us more PvP game modes so.
• Mini-expansions are Icebrood Saga all over again but not free. Maybe it will not be the same at all (we will see) but please don't give us audio fillers each week for the 2 part release of the 3rd map.
• Not even one new building or music related to the Luxons in both Jade Sea maps. The game is full of recycling since our encounter with the Void and it will be the same with some new areas: "Discover a chain of islands high above Tyria, where distorted, alternate-universe reflections of the world below have taken on lives of their own."
  I'm a bit worried in the fact that developers don't have enough ressources to make new assets anymore.
• Wizard’s Vault are the new Zaishen's Quests who were initialy published to retain the playerbase till the launch of Guild Wars 2, alongside Guild Wars Beyond but it was a downfall anyway.
• The game is full of bots and afk players with alt-accounts on a lot of map and metas (like Tequalt or Dragonstorm) and PvP (ruled by goldsellers). ArenaNet could hire a part-time guy to definitively handle the problem but they don't want to invest in the future of their game since it will enter in maintenance mode soon.
• The PvP of Guild Wars 1 was for everyone and was a great part of your success, the Guild Wars 2's one is a failure.
• The marketing is awful. The trailers are more and more bad and we don't even know what's Bubble Tea in Europe.
• The core team is gone since a long time and remaining ones like Colin Johanson aren't working on Guild Wars 2.
• Most of new ArenaNet's jobs are for the unannounced game since months and those for Guild Wars 2 can be used for the other game.
• The developers doesn't listen their players since the begining and will not listen them anyway as they think we have nothing great to say even as customers.

I hope to see some developers to have some counter arguments to give but we can't go against the truth. ArenaNet don't seems to really want to seriously invest in Guild Wars 2 anymore.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Anvar.5673
typo

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Doomposting at it's finest.

Guild Wars 2 isn't going anywhere. It's one of the four (or five to some) MMORPG titans and unlike WoW (which FFXIV kinda replaces) has nothing that would be "newer GW2". It's formula (horizontal progression) and market positioning (that side MMO you can always return to as your progress is not invalidated over time) give it very solid ground to stand on.

Complain as I might (and I do) about what the devs are doing, justice has to be given where it's due.
If things were slower recently, that's at last partly on us, the players. We made it clear some time ago we would like to see game get more balance and polish, before they go guns blazing with new content. And that's what they did and are doing.

Game needs more money flowing and that's understandable. Inflation happened and that means games need more cash to operate as well. Unless this DLC is really bad I'll try to support A-net and grab it. If the game is outta breath, I'd much rather help them get back on their feet than kick it down.

Sides a-net had projects on the side...and they went sour. It's in their best interest to keep one thing that definitely works alive, well and kicking.
 

[Anvar.5673]

With all my respect, so much naivety at it's finest.

As always, I only believe in what I see and all of my arguments are always valid. What we learned about ArenaNet since the launch of Guild Wars 2 is that they never learn.

I would love to be more optimist, really, but since the fiascos of the Icebrood Saga and Primordius (they did dirty with him), as a player of Guild Wars 1 and a follower of the studio since the begining, I tend to be more realistic.

What you think only belong to you and don't really have importance in regards of the multiples facts I bringed here, and the state of the PvP is surely the biggest shame of the Guild Wars license that I can speak about here alongside many other ones.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Anvar.5673
typo

[Ashen.2907]

47 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Doomposting at it's finest.

Guild Wars 2 isn't going anywhere. It's one of the four (or five to some) MMORPG titans and unlike WoW (which FFXIV kinda replaces) has nothing that would be "newer GW2". It's formula (horizontal progression) and market positioning (that side MMO you can always return to as your progress is not invalidated over time) give it very solid ground to stand on.

Complain as I might (and I do) about what the devs are doing, justice has to be given where it's due.
If things were slower recently, that's at last partly on us, the players. We made it clear some time ago we would like to see game get more balance and polish, before they go guns blazing with new content. And that's what they did and are doing.

Game needs more money flowing and that's understandable. Inflation happened and that means games need more cash to operate as well. Unless this DLC is really bad I'll try to support A-net and grab it. If the game is outta breath, I'd much rather help them get back on their feet than kick it down.

Sides a-net had projects on the side...and they went sour. It's in their best interest to keep one thing that definitely works alive, well and kicking.
 

Is the formula all about horizontal progression any longer? Is character progression still inviolate?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

No more elite specs. Well, at least not for this expansion. But they will give every class a new weapon to use and free up elite spec weapons to be used regardless of trait lines. That is actually more to balance than just a new espec with one new weapon that's only useable in combination with that traitline.

SotO already has more expansion content than IBS ever had. New weapons, legendary armor, freeing up the espec weapons, changing how runes work, etc. Those are features usually reserved for expansions, which we didn't get with IBS (despite ANet's promise of expansion level content for IBS).

I don't know about goldsellers in PvP, but we used to have a lot of those in PvE after launch. I haven't seen one in years. Can't say much more about PvP since I don't play it (and didn't in GW either).

I'll agree marketing is bad. But then again, it's always been bad. Yet the game still exists and thrives to this day. Maybe they're not giving you what you want, but that doesn't mean the game is in decline. It just means this game might not be for you anymore.

Yes, ANet had side projects. The layoffs in 2020 were largely based on the fact that these side projects didn't result in anything viable, i.e. resources were wasted. GW2 is their main focus and the development cycle of the last few years clearly shows a renewed focus on the game.

Your end conclusion is truly baffling to me. ANet doesn't want to invest in GW2 anymore? First of all, it's their main product. Second, a new expansion is on the way and they've updated a lot of things in the last year, even reintroduced old story content so the game has a complete storyline for everyone, not just the ones who were there a decade ago (except for Canach; he got the short end of the stick in this process). They release balance patches (let's not look at the quality of those patches, but merely the fact that they're working on it should tell you the complete opposite of what you claim).

The game not living up to your standards doesn't mean it's dying. Those are 2 different things.

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Is the formula all about horizontal progression any longer? Is character progression still inviolate?

If you're reffering to relics that remains to be seen. Let's not cast judgement on this until we see the evidence.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

24 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

With all my respect, so much naivety at it's finest.

As always, I only believe in what I see and all of my arguments are always valid. What we learned about ArenaNet since the launch of Guild Wars 2 is that they never learn.

I would love to be more optimist, really, but since the fiascos of the Icebrood Saga and Primordius (they did dirty with him), as a player of Guild Wars 1 and a follower of the studio since the begining, I tend to be more realistic.

What you think only belong to you and don't really have importance in regards of the multiples facts I bringed here, and the state of the PvP is surely the biggest shame of the Guild Wars license that I can speak about here alongside many other ones.

With all due respect, so much projection at its finest.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 7/3/2023 at 1:03 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Doomposting at it's finest.

Guild Wars 2 isn't going anywhere. It's one of the four (or five to some) MMORPG titans and unlike WoW (which FFXIV kinda replaces) has nothing that would be "newer GW2". It's formula (horizontal progression) and market positioning (that side MMO you can always return to as your progress is not invalidated over time) give it very solid ground to stand on.
 

gw2 is 'top 5' in its own head and the heads of its biggest supporters. Back in the old days, yes but we don't live in that time anymore. It's top 10 at best.

The consistent top 5 mmorpgs are:

1. WoW
2. FF XIV
3. Elder Scrolls Online
4. Star Wars: The Old Republic
5. Black Desert Online

Edit (7/4/23) : Seven confused emojis? Ooooh...I touched nerves didn't I? Come on. You all KNOW it's true.

Edited July 4, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
clapping back

[Anvar.5673]

9 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

If you're reffering to relics that remains to be seen. Let's not cast judgement on this until we see the evidence.

The answer is simple: they have to replace the 6th legendary rune by a legendary relic. That's the only good answer here and they should have give that answer since days.

 

8 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

With all due respect, so much projection at its finest.

How I can make projections on facts that already exists, some from months but other ones since years ? It's up to the developers to give some answers about the future of the game now.

They had better give an official stance about the PvP by the next month if they want to be taken seriously in the future.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Anvar.5673
typo

[Ashen.2907]

9 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

If you're reffering to relics that remains to be seen. Let's not cast judgement on this until we see the evidence.

To be fair, removing the sixth tier bonus and adding it back as earnable relics is inherently vertical progression.

Of course ANet does have the option to step away from the concept before SotO launches.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

3 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

The answer is simple: they have to replace the 6th legendary rune by a legendary relic. That's the only good answer here and they should have give that answer since days.

No argument there. But as this scenario was so far neither confirmed nor denied, it's too early to judge them on it.

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

How I can make projections on facts that already exists

Because some of your, "facts," are not factual. Calling an opinion a fact doesnt make it so.

 

I tend to agree with your title, but some of your posts' assertions are lacking.

[Batalix.2873]

Let's also observe that:

* The EoD specs were clearly rushed and not up to the same standard as the other especs. They almost exclusively used old animations because the company didn't want the expense of mocap studio. Their fantasies are unidimensional at best, or incoherent or borderline nonexistent at worst. And their traitlines hardly change up their gameplay or explore facets of their job at all: most are just streamlined straight-buffs arranged neatly into power/condi/support.

* EoD maps as a whole are not as filled with worldbuilding and achievements like they used to. The metas definitely feel like they could have gotten another pass and been injected with a bit more identity. Echovald is largely empty but for all the tangled trees to navigate. NKC is just empty period (older maps leaned into GW2's limitations, but after Drizzlewood/Grothmar succeeded at creating population epicenters, NKC is a failure).

* EoD incentives are much thinner. Like 90 percent of why anyone plays them are for Aurene leggy weapons. Nowhere near the amount of side quest collections that HoT/PoF had. You want anything distinct from EoD, chances are better than not that it's held by that one girl with the monopoly on imperial favor in Seitung.

* EoD has a referential, "plug-the-old-content" leaning that is far more extreme than the other expacs. The story itself is really insistent on directing players toward S1, for some bizarre reason that makes no sense outside of plugging the S1 rerelease. The Aurene legendaries--again one of the only reasons for people to play EoD after the story--seem to have been a deliberate attempt to encourage purchase of the prior expacs. The Gyala story especially just felt really odd in wanting to reminisce specifically about mostly forgotten side characters of HoT, PoF, and IBS as if to try to get players to engage with those products.

Overall, EoD has not given me the impression that the new devs have a very strong vision for the game. It feels more like a victory lap slash massive marketing gimmick than a distinct thing like HoT or PoF. Which would have been fine if the game had just ended there and worked on ironing out all of EoD's problems.

But being told that there was a fourth expansion in the works and then getting SotO just feels like blatant misleading. It's simultaneously nothing of substance one would expect in even a small expac, plus a lot of the sort of changes one would expect to see in maintenance, plus a few actively destructive things that make it really hard to continue enjoying what came before it.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

Just now, Anvar.5673 said:

How I can make projections on facts that already exists, some form months but other ones since years ? It's up to the developers to give some answers about the future of the game now.

They had better give an official stance about the PvP by the next month if they want to be taken seriously in the future.

PvP has never been, and will never be, a main focus for GW2. I don't know how long it should take for people to notice that, but it's painfully obvious. Who needs an official stance from them? Just look at PvP and the development it's seen. That tells you all you should know about PvP in GW2.

Your arguments are always valid? Why? Arguments are only valid if the conclusion is true. And it's not. Maybe it is for you, but the state of the game and the size of the playerbase make your arguments invalid on a larger scale. I'm sure on a personal level your arguments are valid, and I'm sure you're not the only one who has a problem with (some of) the points you argue. But your end conclusion (ANet doesn't care about GW2 or its development) is factually untrue.

But to be clear: "What you think only belong to you and don't really have importance in regards of the multiples facts I bringed here". A quote from you, and projection at its finest.

[Farohna.6247]

First time playing a "the game is going to die...doom doom doom!!!" mmo?   You'd be amazed how they keep going despite negativity.  

 

[Firebeard.1746]

This game has a lot left in it as long as the devs understand that they're selling experiences and they respect the fact there's a wide range of skill levels and possible builds from players. If they can keep all players on the spectrum happy they'll do well. 

[pocky.7468]

I realized the best years were behind us when EoD hit. That expansion just got a big old stank about it. They must worked with like a 1/3rd of the budget/resources compared to PoF and HoT or something, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

     I actually disagree here. The reason I say that is because if they stick with adding more core weapons to the game than I think it has a long life ahead of it. Core weapons being added means people won't get bored of combat as fast and finally get to play their fantasies out the way they wanted. For example, I have wanted pistol on Ele for a long time, and now that is finally happening I am excited. I can't wait until they add off hand pistol to it expansion later. I can't wait until they add main hand pistol to Mesmer eventually as well to fulfill all my dual wield pistol fantasies.

     I couldn't care less to be honest about the map size anymore or the story. That is not why I play this game anymore. I play it for the fashion and combat. And as long as they keep adding new looks and adding core weapons I will be happy and content.

[Tachenon.5270]

Well, two things.

1. Nothing lasts forever. Not even nothing.

2. Despite their best efforts, they've not been shut down/driven everybody away yet. But I think it would be cool if we could get 'I SURVIVED THE NPE' t-shirts for out characters.

3. Bonus! How do we know that's really Zojja and not some fanatical fan cosplaying Zojja at a Zojja-con?

4. Double Secret Bonus! You saw the SOTO picture. It can only mean... playable Djinn!

[Anvar.5673]

1 hour ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

PvP has never been, and will never be, a main focus for GW2. I don't know how long it should take for people to notice that, but it's painfully obvious. Who needs an official stance from them? Just look at PvP and the development it's seen. That tells you all you should know about PvP in GW2.

So letting some people earn real money on the back on legitimate players is right for you ?

1 hour ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Your arguments are always valid? Why? Arguments are only valid if the conclusion is true. And it's not. Maybe it is for you, but the state of the game and the size of the playerbase make your arguments invalid on a larger scale. I'm sure on a personal level your arguments are valid, and I'm sure you're not the only one who has a problem with (some of) the points you argue. But your end conclusion (ANet doesn't care about GW2 or its development) is factually untrue.

Who here can give the real number of players accross all inactives, bots and alt-accounts ? If they make so much money, maybe they could keep going with larger expansions and seasons and get the job done with PvP to definitly bury all negative thoughs about the state of the game and their studio.

But we already know, at least since the Icebrood Saga, that the developers don't care about Guild Wars 2 anymore, that it's a side project and that they all would prefer to work on the new unannounced game instead on working on some legacy/spaghetti code. We are just milk cows.

Do you really think they listen their players ? Look at this as an example between many others. They only do what they want and especially everything that players didn't asked for. They just worked a little on the Season 1 to save time until we open our wallet, not for the players.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Anvar.5673
gone too far

[Gendalfs.7521]

For those who say GW2 in top whatever, show your proof, because as I know theres no place you can get actual player numbers (except Steam, which is about 4,5k).

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

33 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

Who here can give the real number of players accross all inactives, bots and alt-accounts ?

If this is what you truly believe, then why make a claim about this in your OP? First you say it's full of bots, then you say no one can say what the real numbers are. It's either one or the other. You can't have it both ways. This reeks of argumentation to suit your conclusion, not actual objective observation.

Using IBS as an argument is also not a strong position, since it started in 2019 and this was created while part of the studio was working on other projects. A lot of those got cancelled, the teams were reshuffled and a lot of people were fired. IBS was released during a tenuous time for ANet that does not represent the current situation.

You don't know whether the devs care for GW2 or not. That's just your personal feelings about the game. Do you know them personally? Have you read a load of interviews saying they don't? Where's the proof to corroborate your claim?

I don't know. Whenever I feel this pessimistic about anything that is not vital to my personal life, I just turn my back on it. If it's not vital it's also not worth the time and energy complaining about it. And if I want to argue for change, taking such a negative tone will not be conducive to that end. There's nothing constructive about your post so apparently all you want to do is complain and be a prophet of doom for this game. We've seen many. I don't know where they are now, but I do know where the game is they were complaining about so much: in active development, not on its last leg.

Look, I'm not saying ANet has got their act together. They've been fickle in their development almost for as long as the game exists. They have abandoned plenty of concepts for new ones, only to abandon those as well. But for me and many other people playing this game still gives us enjoyment. I don't know the exact numbers, but the fact that the studio has the resources to keep developing the game and releasing new content is pretty much proof that they're not in a bad spot today. And mind who you're calling a milk cow. If you lump yourself in with that group (and you did) then you are as much a cause for this perceived problem as anyone else you perceive as a milk cow. This is your gut talking, not your brain.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

7 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

For those who say GW2 in top whatever, show your proof, because as I know theres no place you can get actual player numbers (except Steam, which is about 4,5k).

For those who say GW2 is a dying game, show your proof, because as I know there's no place you can get actual player numbers.

See how that works both ways?

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The consistent top 5 mmorpgs are:

1. WoW
2. FF XIV
3. Elder Scrolls Online
4. Star Wars: The Old Republic
5. Black Desert Online

FF and BDO for fans of Asian anime and furry lovers, WoW for fans of childish comic-styles, and SW:TOR only for its brand (the crap they've done to the playerbase in SW:TOR is unacceptable and you would never see such complete disrespect from ANet).

The only one worth Top 5 is certainly TESO, though I find character animation and movement in it weird and unnatural and controls feel sluggish (another thing greatly surpassed in quality in GW2, where those aspects are undoubtedly top-notch).

Now, while I wasn't a fan of Cantha's weird aesthetics and didn't find any joy in Gyala Delve's plot presentation, I believe that what we have learnt so far about the upcoming contents sounds promising at least and doesn't justify the doom & gloom drama. 😉

[solzuul.6294]

Also consider that there's been nearly no new development in gw2 from gw1. All revisited areas and nostalgia, even much of the wizards tower was in the works and dropped almost a decade ago. 

 

edit: they've pretty much run out of old ground to tread, and I think if there is any ambition in the studio, it is being reserved for other projects. That's not to say that gw2 is dead or dying (heck even gw1 still exists), they can certainly continue to innovate existing systems like they are in SotO, which is a much better deal than IBS. They called it an expansion cycle, but I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their meetings to discuss what they could possibly produce next. 😏

Edited July 3, 2023 by solzuul.6294