(Weekly) Keep Keeper is Broken

[MarkBecks.6453]

This has been an ongoing issue with defending since you, Anet made the changes. Tonight, I have defended our home BL Keep 7 times, and each time I have killed enemy inside the outer, or inside the inner Keep. I have managed to get 2 credits for 7 times, please remove this or fix it urgently. Please review your current defender system, because this is clearly not working as intended.

[XenesisII.1540]

Surprisingly that was one of  the first I finished last night. 🤷‍♂️

https://i.imgur.com/57025Dg.jpg

 

[babana.7521]

7 hours ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

This has been an ongoing issue with defending since you, Anet made the changes. Tonight, I have defended our home BL Keep 7 times, and each time I have killed enemy inside the outer, or inside the inner Keep. I have managed to get 2 credits for 7 times, please remove this or fix it urgently. Please review your current defender system, because this is clearly not working as intended.

First achievement this week for me as well, we were defending Osprey's Palace, the enemy kept streaming in, so many bags!  Did it under 30 minutes. 
Edit: BTW, I was roaming and running alone too, saw the sneaky OJs, when to check and voila. bags and achievement.
https://ibb.co/mD9x4DC

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by babana.7521

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

nope.

towers on the other hand...

[babana.7521]

5 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

nope.

towers on the other hand...

seem a bit slow on the tower guardian this week, only because I am doing more PvE for Vision. 
https://ibb.co/TcC4yGz

[Ronin.4501]

8 hours ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

This has been an ongoing issue with defending since you, Anet made the changes. Tonight, I have defended our home BL Keep 7 times, and each time I have killed enemy inside the outer, or inside the inner Keep. I have managed to get 2 credits for 7 times, please remove this or fix it urgently. Please review your current defender system, because this is clearly not working as intended.

Based on my own personal experience(s), and what was relayed to me by others, the way to get credit for Keep and Tower Defense is to kill a player or players who has actively participated in the keep or tower capture; you need to focus on the players who were on the siege when it damaged the walls/gates, and the players who have killed (or at least attacked) the guards and lord.

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

This has been an ongoing issue with defending since you, Anet made the changes. Tonight, I have defended our home BL Keep 7 times, and each time I have killed enemy inside the outer, or inside the inner Keep. I have managed to get 2 credits for 7 times, please remove this or fix it urgently. Please review your current defender system, because this is clearly not working as intended.

If you don't mind me asking, how many siege were placed by the attacker on outer and inner? How many attackers and how many defenders? 

[Erich.1783]

I am with the other people who say keep is fine tower is an issue, I would be happy to see the numbers swapped, 8 keeps and 3 towers.

[MedievalThings.5417]

Keep seems to complete with little issue.  But yeah, the tower one never moves.  I have all the weekly stuff done, except towers (1/8).  And that one tower defense was me killing a keep tapper halfway between WC and the Lowlands sentry.  Was honestly surprised when I got the defense credit.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Keep seems to complete with little issue.  But yeah, the tower one never moves.  I have all the weekly stuff done, except towers (1/8).  And that one tower defense was me killing a keep tapper halfway between WC and the Lowlands sentry.  Was honestly surprised when I got the defense credit.

Did you see the tapper kill a guard or did they just get aggro?

[MedievalThings.5417]

1 minute ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Did you see the tapper kill a guard or did they just get aggro?

Was clearly just guard aggro.  Guard at the top of the stairs that's always shooting at the veteran bog scale was shooting at him as he was going for another keep tap.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Was clearly just guard aggro.  Guard at the top of the stairs that's always shooting at the veteran bog scale was shooting at him as he was going for another keep tap.

Testing live is challenging, first instinct is to go for the target. With the towers its rougher as the question goes do you let them knock down the wall to try and just test the event. 🙂Appreciate the reply, the geek in me is still trying to see the patterns. Been more consistent when the attacker has killed a guard, killed an allied player or was on the siege that busted down a wall or gate, but its not easy to sit and watch and then go for a single target to try and test. Since the system has the built in logic that a player that is recently killed and hasn't done anything so isn't worth as much already in place, wondering if that also is a factor but there is even less of a good way to test that since you can't tell that in advance, so it also might be a variable in the mix. Since all of the actions stated above does award that the attacker with WxP it might be the later that is doing what I was calling some action to mark them as an attacker which makes them valid for defense event credit if killed. Coding random is not easy so there is a pattern out there lol. Good hunting!

Edited July 7, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[XenesisII.1540]

https://i.imgur.com/ILJU2lV.jpg 

People forget these are suppose to be weeklies, not just another set of dailies.

Maybe anet knows of the defense credit issue, but it isn't an issue to them because they think it should work as random credit, not guaranteed credit, because of the variables involved in getting credit, such as maybe killing actual players who killed a guard, or killing siege that broke one of the objectives walls or gates, etc. Anet did after all lower the tower captures accordingly, remember it was like 15 tower captures to begin with?

Keep credit seems to be easier because you tend to spend way more time at a keep defense than a tower, more often than not against a zerg, and way more guards present so the chances of someone killing a guard or keep siege is more likely, and in turn killing for them for credit.

🤷‍♂️ waiting for the confused -->

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

https://i.imgur.com/ILJU2lV.jpg 

People forget these are suppose to be weeklies, not just another set of dailies.

Maybe anet knows of the defense credit issue, but it isn't an issue to them because they think it should work as random credit, not guaranteed credit, because of the variables involved in getting credit, such as maybe killing actual players who killed a guard, or killing siege that broke one of the objectives walls or gates, etc. Anet did after all lower the tower captures accordingly, remember it was like 15 tower captures to begin with?

Keep credit seems to be easier because you tend to spend way more time at a keep defense than a tower, more often than not against a zerg, and way more guards present so the chances of someone killing a guard or keep siege is more likely, and in turn killing for them for credit.

🤷‍♂️ waiting for the confused -->

lol. We had some company show up at reset that we both know. Being a scribe I figured let's share some joy and spread the love with them.  30 mins in and that was done. We will both have to find our friend and share some more joy with them when they come back to visit. Sharing is caring after all!

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Defense events are broken in general. In the past there was a workaround where repairing a structure under attack was a way to tell the computer that you were there defending but players complained about this and ArenaNet removed this mechanic. That leaves that most defensive actions are not recognized by the computer.

• Closing a wall/gate: No defense
• Healing allies or NPCs: No defense
• Destroying offending enemy siege: No defense
• Killing attacking enemy players: Roll a die. May count. May not.

 

 

[Veeber.3192]

Anet will probably claim diminishing returns! For me, why bother defending when I'll get nothing out of it.

[XenesisII.1540]

28 minutes ago, Veeber.3192 said:

Anet will probably claim diminishing returns! For me, why bother defending when I'll get nothing out of it.

What did you get before the rewards change to motivate you to defend?

[Veeber.3192]

55 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

What did you get before the rewards change to motivate you to defend?

Technically more rewards, not in the WXP sense but in actually defending. People more often then now came to help, you could have great fights that could go either way and be relentless, get loot from kills etc. Yes it was nothing like at the start of the game but people still came.

Then came rewards (initial OTT wxp was bad), don't get me wrong it was needed and it seemed like it helped with people defending more, but what do players like? Being rewarded. When the rewards were 'restricted' there seemed to be even less defenders (on my sever) as the rewards are random. Sometimes it's more rewarding to kill a guard at a tower and leave then defend.

Surely if anyone, enemy of ally, kill X amount and close a gate using X amount of supplies, they should be rewarded and encouraged to continue defending.

This is just my opinion, I've always loved defending but I do think sometimes "why do I bother" in these situations.

Probably not the answer you were expecting.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Veeber.3192

[XenesisII.1540]

16 minutes ago, Veeber.3192 said:

Technically more rewards, not in the WXP sense but in actually defending. People more often then now came to help, you could have great fights that could go either way and be relentless, get loot from kills etc. Yes it was nothing like at the start of the game but people still came.

Then came rewards (initial OTT wxp was bad), don't get me wrong it was needed and it seemed like it helped with people defending more, but what do players like? Being rewarded. When the rewards were 'restricted' there seemed to be even less defenders (on my sever) as the rewards are random. Sometimes it's more rewarding to kill a guard at a tower and leave then defend.

Surely if anyone, enemy of ally, kill X amount and close a gate using X amount of supplies, they should be rewarded and encouraged to continue defending.

This is just my opinion, I've always loved defending but I do think sometimes "why do I bother" in these situations.

Probably not the answer you were expecting.

It wasn't more rewards, pocket change and karma was not more. You can still have the same fights and more rewards out of it because of the event, whether you get credit every time or not, it's still a net gain on rewards over the old system overall, you still get the same bags from kills.

The real problem is they've nerfed defenses too much at this point, walls/gate hitpoint nerfed, siege damage nerfed, rams buffed so that even a cannon can't kill it before the gate goes down, nerfed invul tactic, less supply in towers and keeps means less repair and less siege, all that adds up to not allowing defenders to respond in time in a lot of cases. The only sure delay is disables, and even that is hard to do with all the shields in the game.

Players have also resorted to more sneak captures, it's not a matter of not wanting to respond, it's a matter of not even being able to respond in time now, even to alpine north towers. 🤷‍♂️

P.S you not showing up to defend means even less rewards than the systems at all. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 10, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[blp.3489]

25 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

It wasn't more rewards, pocket change and karma was not more. You can still have the same fights and more rewards out of it because of the event, whether you get credit every time or not, it's still a net gain on rewards over the old system overall, you still get the same bags from kills.

If you think of it in terms of opportunity cost, every time you decide attack or defend the rewards incentivize attacking, especially when getting defense credit is unreliable.  If you defend and don't get credit then you are that much less well off than your teammate that chose to attack, plus teammates are less likely to help defend given the added reward of attacking.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 minute ago, blp.3489 said:

If you think of it in terms of opportunity cost, every time you decide attack or defend the rewards incentivize attacking, especially when getting defense credit is unreliable.  If you defend and don't get credit then you are that much less well off than your teammate that chose to attack, plus teammates are less likely to help defend given the added reward of attacking.

Let's be clear here.

Defense events can trigger multiple times in one attack, depending on the delays, you may get credit for all or none depending on what you did.

Capture events are only once, only when you actually capture the objective. You can just as well fail and get absolutely nothing for it, while defenders always have a chance at loot in that same encounter.

This is probably why anet is fine with the defense event not rewarding you every single time, because the player did not do a specific thing to receive credit for the event, this is the balance to it, until maybe they implement the attack failed event to go along with it.

Obviously attacking will seem more rewarding because it's guaranteed, and probably why everyone is doing sneak capping, so you get no contesting when capping for the reward, and of course you get less players to defend that you can overwhelm for easy kills, but you also get less bags from kills this way. Going by the logic that players don't want to defend, well it works the other way if you decide to attack only. So is attacking really that much more profitable? Meh. 🤷‍♂️

I'm just glad I don't play wvw and think about rewards like an accountant, I go to whatever is available to attack or defend, end of the night open my many bags and be happy about killing way more than I died, and screwing over groups in defenses. 🤷‍♂️🍦

[babana.7521]

Just so happens this week we are getting grossly outnumbered and heavilly double team, 10 players is trying to defend against 3-5 guild blobs, so we gets lots of fights and defending to do and the first 2 item to be completed on my weekly was. TADA, notice the tower guardian @5/8 already. I guess it isn't broken after all. huh.
https://ibb.co/YNvj0F0

Edited July 11, 2023 by babana.7521

[SoV.5139]

Its horrible if they are awarding at random or if there is a player limit.  Tapping a wall up got it every time.  This current behavior is unpredictable and buggy.  If they want more contested structures giving a guaranteed reward each time the timer cycles is a far better strategy.  If we held off attackers for 3 timers we deserve 3 reward credits. It shouldnt have to do with PKing someone under timer within a specific distance in an odd number day in an even number month when pluto is in the 5th house of ascension during a blood moon.   

The current implementation is how you do it if you DO NOT want more contested structures.  People will begin win trading if they dont fix this.  We'll let people take stuff like a K-train and just get the attacker parts every week.  Dolyaks, camps, towers, keeps, monuments, and SMC = 6 objectives = the gold reward = no defenses needed.  

Taking the sure fire method away (tapping up a wall) before fixing these bugs was a bold move cotton.  Lets see how it plays out.   

[babana.7521]

33 minutes ago, SoV.5139 said:

Its horrible if they are awarding at random or if there is a player limit.  Tapping a wall up got it every time.  This current behavior is unpredictable and buggy.  If they want more contested structures giving a guaranteed reward each time the timer cycles is a far better strategy.  If we held off attackers for 3 timers we deserve 3 reward credits. It shouldnt have to do with PKing someone under timer within a specific distance in an odd number day in an even number month when pluto is in the 5th house of ascension during a blood moon.   

The current implementation is how you do it if you DO NOT want more contested structures.  People will begin win trading if they dont fix this.  We'll let people take stuff like a K-train and just get the attacker parts every week.  Dolyaks, camps, towers, keeps, monuments, and SMC = 6 objectives = the gold reward = no defenses needed.  

Taking the sure fire method away (tapping up a wall) before fixing these bugs was a bold move cotton.  Lets see how it plays out.   

If this is the case , I can simply stand inside an objective that is under attack to get rewarded? even when it is just a tap I will get rewarded, now a days I don't even see a tapper, structures are  constantly being tapped, I could just stand there whole day and be rewarded. Why bother to fight at all, way to reward and promote afk wall runners.

[SoV.5139]

4 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

If this is the case , I can simply stand inside an objective that is under attack to get rewarded? even when it is just a tap I will get rewarded, now a days I don't even see a tapper, structures are  constantly being tapped, I could just stand there whole day and be rewarded. Why bother to fight at all, way to reward and promote afk wall runners.

No, there are already participation rules in WvW which disallow piking for rewards.