Scourge heal skill "consume conditions" is a straight up massive upgrade from Demon heal skill

[Flauvious.6195]

Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

[Star.8401]

because two different classes? Revenant can theoretically pop two heal skills within that cooldown while a necro couldn't....its balancing

[Genesis.5169]

Well, you forget about the debuffs consume conditions apply to when you use it right, and the fact that necros are a cloth class they may have hp but they have no toughness.

And i believe (you can correct me on this) you can trait both down to 20seconds.I think you need to look at the full picture, also there are additional healing tools rev has out side there main heal with necro do not have aswell.

[Solori.6025]

@Flauvious.6195 said:Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

Thats not a scourge skill..

That skill has been in the game since 2012....

Like, you could have wiki'd that .....or googled it...

[Genesis.5169]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Flauvious.6195 said:Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

Thats not a scourge skill..

That skill has been in the game since 2012....

Like, you could have wiki'd that .....or googled it...

@Solori.6025 said:

@Flauvious.6195 said:Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

Thats not a scourge skill..

That skill has been in the game since 2012....

Like, you could have wiki'd that .....or googled it...

I think empowering misery is a rev skill.

[Burtnik.5218]

@Genesis.5169 said:Well, you forget about the debuffs consume conditions apply to when you use it right, and the fact that necros are a cloth class they may have hp but they have no toughness.

And i believe (you can correct me on this) you can trait both down to 20seconds.I think you need to look at the full picture, also there are additional healing tools rev has out side there main heal with necro do not have aswell.

As far i remember you can heal extra 1k from consume conditions by removing the vul right after the use via adept trait in spite adept line

[messiah.1908]

cause rev are weak to conditions . this the the class. we have the lowest condi cleanse in the game. also dont forget corruption line gives resistance and design to have more conditions on you while you do dmg. but the design went wrong... :(

[Crinn.7864]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Flauvious.6195 said:Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

Thats not a scourge skill..

That skill has been in the game since 2012....

Like, you could have wiki'd that .....or googled it...

@Solori.6025 said:

@Flauvious.6195 said:Consume Conditions: Base heal 5240, heals 724 per condition. REMOVES conditions on use. 30 second cd.

Empowering misery (demon heal skill): Base heal 4600, heals an extra 596 per condition on you. Does not remove conditions. 30 Second cool down.

Why

Thats not a scourge skill..

That skill has been in the game since 2012....

Like, you could have wiki'd that .....or googled it...

I think empowering misery is a rev skill.

No he was talking about the OP's labeling of Consume Conditions as a scourge skill, when in reality Consume Conditions is a core necro healing skill that hasn't been changed since 2012.

[Flauvious.6195]

Yea I know it's a core necro skill, I guess I misstyped, it's just that as far as I can see scourge is the only necro so when I think necro I think scourge.

[Ojimaru.8970]

The core design of Mallyx utilities and traits, based from my observation, isn't focused on condition cleanse. Instead, Mallyx seems to revolve around drawing in conditions (especially with Pain Absorption) while countering it with Resistance, which can be gained from Pain Absorption and Demonic Defiance, or utilizing the conditions, e.g. Replenishing Despair, Bolstered Anguish, and Pulsating Pestilence.

[messiah.1908]

@Ojimaru.8970 said:The core design of Mallyx utilities and traits, based from my observation, isn't focused on condition cleanse. Instead, Mallyx seems to revolve around drawing in conditions (especially with Pain Absorption) while countering it with Resistance, which can be gained from Pain Absorption and Demonic Defiance, or utilizing the conditions, e.g. Replenishing Despair, Bolstered Anguish, and Pulsating Pestilence.

indeed and this is the main problem. only 1 trait line handling conditions. the way to handle it is only with resistance boon which now easy to removed.

they should give a trait that proc 5 stacks of resistance for 1 sec when you have more than 3 stacks of dmging conditions with 10 sec icd. so even if 1 stack was removed the other will go up and still protect you. and you have 5 sec window vulnerable

[Rym.1469]

Consume Conditions has been here right from the very start and is one of the iconic skills of necromancer. It's not a Scourge skill.

Empowering Misery is entirely different concept. The whole idea of Mallyx opposite to Necromancer was that you aimed to hold conditions on yourself with aid of resistance and copy them to enemies, while necro wanted to transfer conditions, because holding them does not have any value for Necro. All Mallyx skills even used to bring self-applied conditions to go further with copying. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Now, Mallyx getting shafted right before release and massive boon removal for Mallyx's resistance coming with PoF is another topic, but direct comparisons of skills between classess like in this thread are useless. Especially if they were designed, on purpose, to be different.

[Turk.5460]

Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

[intox.6347]

Also necro have bigger health pool and lower thoughtness .... so you will heal less % of your hp..

[Clownmug.8357]

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

[Turk.5460]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

There is no greater benefit right now. We just have two garbage heals that sometimes work better than one under conditions that are controlled by our opponents.

[Turk.5460]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

There is no greater benefit right now. We just have two garbage heals that sometimes work better than one under conditions that are controlled by our opponents.

Really? Is addition really that difficult?When I roam I play condi using Jalisand Mallyx

My heals without traitsSoothing Stone: 5501, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removedEmpowering Misery: 4600 +596 per condiTotal w/no conditions: 10,101, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed, 35s cooldown (generously adding extra 5 s for people who don't know how to manage legends)Total w/5 conditions: 13,081, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removedTotal IF poison was not resisted (which is highly unlikely in Mallyx) during both heals: 8,764, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Necro Consume Conditions without traits:5240 +724 per condi, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5sTotal w/no conditions: ...5,240 30s cooldownTotal w/5 conditions: 8,860, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5s, 5 condis removed

[Clownmug.8357]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

There is no greater benefit right now. We just have two garbage heals that sometimes work better than one under conditions that are controlled by our opponents.

Really? Is addition

really

that difficult?When I roam I play condi using Jalisand Mallyx

My heals without traitsSoothing Stone: 5501, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removedEmpowering Misery: 4600 +596 per condiTotal w/no conditions: 10,101, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed, 35s cooldown (generously adding extra 5 s for people who don't know how to manage legends)

Total w/5 conditions: 13,081, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Total IF poison was not resisted (which is highly unlikely in Mallyx) during both heals: 8,764, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Necro Consume Conditions without traits:5240 +724 per condi, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5sTotal w/no conditions: ...5,240 30s cooldownTotal w/5 conditions: 8,860, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5s, 5 condis removed

That's convenient, your roaming build uses Jalis rather than Shiro or Glint like almost everyone else. I guess Empowering Misery must be fine then because you can combine it with the only heal skill that has a decent base value and no gimmicky mechanics.

[Ariurotl.3718]

@Ojimaru.8970 said:The core design of Mallyx utilities and traits, based from my observation, isn't focused on condition cleanse. Instead, Mallyx seems to revolve around drawing in conditions (especially with Pain Absorption) while countering it with Resistance, which can be gained from Pain Absorption and Demonic Defiance, or utilizing the conditions, e.g. Replenishing Despair, Bolstered Anguish, and Pulsating Pestilence.Yep. And as a cherry on this half-baked cake, Pain Absorption is also the stun breaker, because of course you don't mind taking conditions from everyone when you break a stun. The pit of said cherry is that the skill is a NON-INSTANT stun breaker at that. Seriously, Rev design still hasn't been given any sort of sense years after release. They just tacked stun break on the skill that was worst-suited for this role on the entire Mallyx line in one of the patches, forgot to make it instant and called it a day.

[Rym.1469]

Pain Absorption was the best candidate for stunbreak, the mistake here was simply not adding a short, singular stack of stability like on other stunbreaks with cast time i.e. Well of Power.

[Teratus.2859]

@intox.6347 said:Also necro have bigger health pool and lower thoughtness .... so you will heal less % of your hp..

Try running a soldier stat minion master and trait for lots of life steal.. ;)High health, high defense, can sustain yourself almost completely off life steal and you still do enough damage to avoid tank boredum.Dagger 2 is actually my dedicated healing skill when I run this setup.

[Turk.5460]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

There is no greater benefit right now. We just have two garbage heals that sometimes work better than one under conditions that are controlled by our opponents.

Really? Is addition

really

that difficult?When I roam I play condi using Jalisand Mallyx

My heals without traitsSoothing Stone: 5501, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removedEmpowering Misery: 4600 +596 per condiTotal w/no conditions: 10,101, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed, 35s cooldown (generously adding extra 5 s for people who don't know how to manage legends)

Total w/5 conditions: 13,081, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Total IF poison was not resisted (which is highly unlikely in Mallyx) during both heals: 8,764, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Necro Consume Conditions without traits:5240 +724 per condi, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5sTotal w/no conditions: ...5,240 30s cooldownTotal w/5 conditions: 8,860, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5s, 5 condis removed

That's convenient, your roaming build uses Jalis rather than Shiro or Glint like almost everyone else. I guess Empowering Misery must be fine then because you can combine it with the only heal skill that has a decent base value and no gimmicky mechanics.

You run Mallyx with...Shiro? (still at 6488 heal if you are competent enough to land your attacks).

And even if you are using Glint heal, that heal has the potential to be a full heal if you can even remotely read your opponent's burst, or wait to use it until you're loaded up with conditions. This is the style of Revenant, critical thinking to receive potentially greater reward, rather than Necro where you can face-smash your keyboard and be OK. If you want that type of simple playstyle...go play Necro.

[Solori.6025]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Because Rev can swap stances and get another heal.

Hooray! Two subpar heals for the price of one!

Subpar, yes, when directly compared to other heals. But if I add the effects of both heals, no matter which ones I choose, the effects will benefit me greater than any 1 of the other professions heals benefits them. So we can't have each of the rev heals be "on par" with other professions and still be able to use two. That would be silly. I think they are fine as is.

There is no greater benefit right now. We just have two garbage heals that sometimes work better than one under conditions that are controlled by our opponents.

Really? Is addition

really

that difficult?When I roam I play condi using Jalisand Mallyx

My heals without traitsSoothing Stone: 5501, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removedEmpowering Misery: 4600 +596 per condiTotal w/no conditions: 10,101, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed, 35s cooldown (generously adding extra 5 s for people who don't know how to manage legends)

Total w/5 conditions: 13,081, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Total IF poison was not resisted (which is highly unlikely in Mallyx) during both heals: 8,764, 2s retaliation, 3 condis removed

Necro Consume Conditions without traits:5240 +724 per condi, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5sTotal w/no conditions: ...5,240 30s cooldownTotal w/5 conditions: 8,860, SELF vulnerabilityX5 5s, 5 condis removed

That's convenient, your roaming build uses Jalis rather than Shiro or Glint like almost everyone else. I guess Empowering Misery must be fine then because you can combine it with the only heal skill that has a decent base value and no gimmicky mechanics.

You run Mallyx with...Shiro? (still at 6488 heal if you are competent enough to land your attacks).

And even if you are using Glint heal, that heal has the potential to be a

full

heal if you can even remotely read your opponent's burst, or wait to use it until you're loaded up with conditions. This is the style of Revenant, critical thinking to receive potentially greater reward, rather than Necro where you can face-smash your keyboard and be OK. If you

want

that type of simple playstyle...go play Necro.

Maybe it's the type of people we find in WvW? Cause I have never found a person running a condi build be successful with mallyx/Jalis in solo roamingSimply because as soon as they switch to Jalis you can chain stun them with little to no complicationsThen again I haven't seen a rev build that does well in ANY prolonged fight with a condi userEspecially not against someone that removes or corrupts boons.

[Flauvious.6195]

@Turk.5460 said:

You run Mallyx with...Shiro? (still at 6488 heal if you are competent enough to land your attacks).

Gotta be prepared for those aquatic levels bro