Updates coming to Silent Surf August 22

[Ashantara.8731]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 Toxic Sickness should be removed from Fractals altogether. Having to pause whatever you're doing in favor of turning away to vomit isn't a fun mechanic. 😄

Also, the use of portals should be blocked in Silent Surf as people use them to cheat mechanics and cheese the title. Or just block off the "safe area" by an invisible wall!
 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Elzo Yell.1784]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:23 PM, ZerosLune.6720 said:

Create a pilar on the back of each aspect platform, so we can hook to those. Even if the hook does not take exactly where you aimed, you would still land on the platform.

For those like me using Action Camera, you need to zoom out to 1000% to maybe be able to reach the center of the platform, and not fall into your death (or get stuck INSIDE the platform), otherwise it's impossible. You can still swap camera mode during fight but it's extremely disturbing. Having something above each platform seems a good solution. Plus, replace the special skill with the 1 of grapple in CM: swapping to the grapple to use the grapple is completly stupid. 

[soul.9651]

On 7/26/2023 at 4:21 PM, Poki.8235 said:

One more thing I forgot to say, is that insta-death mechanics in fractals should be used very sparingly. This CM has a lot of them. Mistlock is almost useless. I'd propose these changes:

- Failed World Cleaver doesn't kill everyone, just downs everyone. Mistlock not has a use in this attack. Recovering from a party down is still very unlikely. This is more consistent with other "party wipe if failed" mechanics, like Sorrows or Bombs.

- Falling off the arena shouldn't kill you. It should teleport you onto the platform and down you, triggering Mistlock. I also have an alternative idea: Give people 2 parachutes instead of 1 in the last chest and teleport them above the platform so they have to use a parachute to save themselves from lethal fall damage. Unfortunately the problem with that idea is that having a grappling hook can also save them.

- Wrong "Numbers" shouldn't kill you, just do extra damage and down you. The damage can be high, so that you're very likely to die if you don't have Mistlock.

- "Eyes" also shouldn't kill you if you have a Mistlock. They can do extra damage to downed.

Would all this make the CM too easy? IDK. Maybe? That's not really my point here though. It's about maintaining consistency with other fractals. I know the combat design changed with EoD CMs, and mostly for the better. I love EoD CMs when they don't bug out (*cough* KO *cough*), I really do! But I have breaking the rules, and this Fractal breaks a lot of Fractal rules... 5 man content needs to be designed a bit differently then 10 man content.

PS: Oh, please change the Infusion stat-swap recipe to use 2 Integrated Fractal Matrices instead of a Stabilised Prophet Crystal like the other Fractal infusions do.

PS2: Fix the Last Word axe unlock to be 25 CM clears like the text says and not 30.

... Why the hell cm should be forgiving for mistakes "shouldnt kill you"? Just play normal mode then. Fixing bugs is one thing, but why the hell should they destroy entire cm just for "you".. the only thing they should do is to fix bugs faster, not in a month.. if there is some wvw "bugs" they sure manage to hotfix stuff within days, but hey if its anything else, we can wait a month or two -.-..

Edited July 28, 2023 by soul.9651

[Linken.6345]

12 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

... Why the hell cm should be forgiving for mistakes "shouldnt kill you"? Just play normal mode then. Fixing bugs is one thing, but why the hell should they destroy entire cm just for "you".. the only thing they should do is to fix bugs faster, not in a month.. if there is some wvw "bugs" they sure manage to hotfix stuff within days, but hey if its anything else, we can wait a month or two -.-..

Well that invisible cornerstone in the keep sure have been in game longer then afew days.

[Poobah.6254]

The big thing I don't see being fixed in this is the inconsistency with the tethers. We can't have wipe after wipe because the aspects decide to target a new player half way through casting their tether and then there's not enough time to kill them. Also honestly if ya'll are listening to feedback at all maybe just make the aspects die when you cc them too, it's such a problem for healers to kill them in time even when they don't get the last or a late tether (that's basically an auto wipe). Even a healer in celestial or harrier can struggle. These split phases are the only cause for frustration for my friends and it's a real downer that the one phase that has the problems and frustrations is going untouched as far as I an tell.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 7/28/2023 at 1:42 AM, soul.9651 said:

... Why the hell cm should be forgiving for mistakes "shouldnt kill you"? Just play normal mode then. Fixing bugs is one thing, but why the hell should they destroy entire cm just for "you".. the only thing they should do is to fix bugs faster, not in a month.. if there is some wvw "bugs" they sure manage to hotfix stuff within days, but hey if its anything else, we can wait a month or two -.-..

because that's how challenge mote works on all other fractals? fractals are fractals, they aren't strikes and raids and the biggest problem with this new fractal is it tries to (or has tried to) break all the rules as it sees fit, and that's not okay.

 

we have an established formula and it works, and deviating from it will result in content that is dead on arrival. players will do it for the first few weeks or months for all the rewards then it will be 100% skip and avoid on every group (except progressions), because it won't be worth the time or effort for what you get. we've already been through this dozens of times in the game yet players still argue about it somehow.

 

if you increase the difficulty then increase the rewards, otherwise leave it alone. "free" difficulty is like working an unpaid job.

Edited July 29, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Spawnkuecken.5074]

On 7/25/2023 at 8:40 PM, Phyrosite.2504 said:

Thank you for the fixes; however, making Frightening Speed both unable to be blocked and unable to be dodged isn't very fun in my opinion. Please let us use the tools available to us to deal with mechanics, counterplay is fun.

Yes, exactly. It's not fun. What's the point of having an action combat system if I can't use it. I want to be rewarded when I play well.

(Angry Quaggan Noises)
Fixed an issue that allowed players to dodge World Cleaver. Fixed an issue that allowed players to dodge Frightening Speed.

The other thing is that the hp pool should be decreased for all tier levels. Especially for Tier 1, because a lot of new players don't have the dps and get frustrated when they have to hit an enemy for 20 minutes. When I lead newcomers I am faster with them through Sunqa than in the new Fraq.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Once you master grapple, you will not fail it. Normal mode is prefect for this because there is 0 penalty for failing.  You get put back the platform to try again. You were suppose to spend a month learning the basic mechanics on NM and then do the CM. Not skip NM because it was too long and act surprised you can not do the cm.

Issue with the cm, bad rewards. No infused ring to salvage, no salvage kit, just a chance at a sellable infusion I will never have drop. Once I do it enough time to unlock ax, it will turn into a daily fractal only cm.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

23 hours ago, Poobah.6254 said:

The big thing I don't see being fixed in this is the inconsistency with the tethers. We can't have wipe after wipe because the aspects decide to target a new player half way through casting their tether and then there's not enough time to kill them.

You obviously don't get the mechanic here: when the 66% and 33% tether phase pops up, you stand still until the tether vanishes and the blue beam guiding you to your island appears. Tethers don't get "taken away" by the Aspects, they are being stolen from other players who are moving around like headless chicken and crossing, thereby interrupting, your tether. Simply don't move until you got (or didn't get) tethered. 😄

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[LiveFyre.3186]

46 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 Simply don't move until you got (or didn't get) tethered. 😄

If you do this, you risk the tether not appearing at all. Best way to avoid that is have everyone move towards one aspect in the arena, then it'll spend less time trying to find someone to tether to, which means more time to do the mechanic.

[Poobah.6254]

51 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You obviously don't get the mechanic here: when the 66% and 33% tether phase pops up, you stand still until the tether vanishes and the blue beam guiding you to your island appears. Tethers don't get "taken away" by the Aspects, they are being stolen from other players who are moving around like headless chicken and crossing, thereby interrupting, your tether. Simply don't move until you got (or didn't get) tethered. 😄

We thought this was the case but it really doesn't seem to be. I've tried this with groups where we've been very careful/motionless and still shenanigans have happened with the aspects deciding not to tether quickly enough, changing targets, ignoring a player etc.

[RasSativa.5109]

Can you also fix the inconsistent thether mechanic? IT the world cleaver phase sometimes the teather of the aspects jump between 3 members before finally going trough. Then the person only has like a 2-3 second window to kill the add. If thats the healer. though luck better gg and restart. This randomness makes up for a lot of whipes sadly enough
 

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, LiveFyre.3186 said:

If you do this, you risk the tether not appearing at all. Best way to avoid that is have everyone move towards one aspect in the arena, then it'll spend less time trying to find someone to tether to, which means more time to do the mechanic.

You don't have to have everyone tethered each time. If all walk towards the edge before the tethers manifest, then stand still, all is fine and you don't risk anyone breaking/interrupting another player's tether, which will result in a severe delay as the Aspect will have to find a new target (which will not leave enough seconds to kill them all in time). It's a bit of a balance act.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Katary.7096]

7 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

You were suppose to spend a month learning the basic mechanics on NM and then do the CM.

I assume a good portion of the playerbase spent weeks learning that World Cleaver can be dodged and that the adds are somehow optional. Not that I blame them, content that is this defective ought to be hotfixed early.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

The "Frightening Speed/Roman Numeral/Dash" attack shud be reverted to being dodgable with actually dangerous levels of damage.
The previous iteration rewarded skill way better, but hit for too little, it needs to be something akin to 5.5k x 6 hits.

The reworked version should down you if you eat of all it, but the better you dodge, the less damage you take.
This way, ppl who dodge perfectly get to take 0 dmg, ppl who don't...well, practice more.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

3 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

I assume a good portion of the playerbase spent weeks learning that World Cleaver can be dodged and that the adds are somehow optional. Not that I blame them, content that is this defective ought to be hotfixed early.

If you thought they were going to leave a phase transition being able to be completely bypassed  by dodging instead of doing the mechanic, then you are disillusion. Dark Ai 33 and 66 adds attacks can not be dodged, Arks 80, 50, 30 break bar attacks can not dodged (even if the you could in the past and it was fixed). The only attacking becoming undodgable that shocked me was Frighting Speed, but the fact that it gives extreme vulnerability makes sense that it can not be dodged, that make it behave like KO which has the exact same mechanic.  

I am just hoping they force people to kill aspects after 33%. currently their no reason to do that mechanic now.

[Chocofox.9503]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:33 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

Other Updates

• The final boss's health has been reduced on Challenge mode.
• All checkpoints now require only two players regardless of fractal tier.
• In addition to Sugar Rush, the following instabilities have been removed from Silent Surf: Mists Convergence and Toxic Sickness.

As always, thanks for your constructive feedback and keep it coming!

So the cms health is being reduced but what about the regular ones?   

This fractal is painful to run with pugs for t4s. 

[Raythar.8092]

The listed changes look mostly positive, but there's one more I'd like to see and hopefully it's really simple.

Please let us stow the grapple gun with the special action key. I keep trying to do this because you take it out with the special action key and waste a bunch of time fumbling with the controls because of the inconsistency in the key bindings.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i hope some day you will make the neccesary changes so that pugs don't have to play this on lv75 for a quick clear at the cost of reduced rewards. i'm pretty much done complaining about it at this point since it doesn't look like there's any hope of it ever becoming a real fractal.

 

hopefully the next fractal we get will take us back to the established formula that we came here for.

Edited August 1, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Player.2475]

This fractal is the reason I refuse to play the game any day it's daily. I cleared it several times, but it's such a slog and not at all rewarding.

These fixes will solve NOTHING.

Not only does this boss STILL have 3x more health than any other fractal boss in the game, but none of these fixes address the bugs with its one-shot mechanics, like the eye mechanic's terrible hit detection where you can get hit even if you're looking away from the eyes on the last walkable pixel of the platform, or the fact that for some players the blast triggers up to 3 times in a row randomly for no reason even after it finished, or the fact that the newly undodgeable numbers attack basically downs you if you have less than 100% hp when it starts.

 

Edited March 16 by Player.2475

[Nimris.3781]

@Rubi Bayer.8493

some other issues i have found ( not sure if already mentioned):

1. very rarely 2 players can have add on the same platform  ( i encountered this first time today)
2. also very very rarely adds on main platform can spawn not close to edge, but almost in the middle of main platform ( seen once so far)
3. beside not being able to see orange circle markign axes, the spining axe itself can be invisible on the ground as well!  this nearly killed me and i verified with team on voice, there was 1 axe but i didnt see it at all, no circle, no animation but still applying bleed.
4. people that get chosen by tether ( and see their add) can still break tether for other players. this shouldnt be the case as players that got tethered cannot get another but  if they run into someone else's tether, add will stop channeling and can even freeze in animation for a few seconds effectively wiping party ( so called very late tether)
5. adds can also stop casting tether on their own. i was stending right next to add and he targeted me, after 1-2 sec add stopped casting, than waited for 2 sec and casted tether again - this might be due to movement of people behind me, but this shouldnt affect adds and tether casts!!!
6. add phase can bug out and trigger without world cleaver, if that happens everyone gets tether and when 33% world cleaver comes there will be only 1 add to kill. (no idea how it happened)
7. add phase can also bug under 33%, just after doing world cleaver everyone gets tethered again without world cleaver
8. pets and other "allies" can target 'ghost' adds on main platform. i noticed today that my phantasmal worden is throwing axes on untargetable adds effectively wasting a lot of dps
9. Phantasmagoria effect is completly bugged, according to description "Friend and foe become insubstantial, reducing incoming and outgoing damage" it should reduce dmg taken and dmg done, but it doesnt do either of these.
10. also Phantasmagoria sometimes bugs out and stays despite killing add from tether

 

[LiveFyre.3186]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:01 PM, Raythar.8092 said:

The listed changes look mostly positive, but there's one more I'd like to see and hopefully it's really simple.

Please let us stow the grapple gun with the special action key. I keep trying to do this because you take it out with the special action key and waste a bunch of time fumbling with the controls because of the inconsistency in the key bindings.

Please, God, this.

And with all the issues with people being able to intercept tether from other players, why not make it a marker and harmless debuff, like aggro selection from Mai Trin when she's about to teleport over to you if you get too far?

[Kozumi.5816]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:03 PM, Player.2475 said:

This crappy fractal is the reason I refuse to play the game any day it's daily. I cleared it several times, but it's such a slog and not at all rewarding.

These fixes will solve NOTHING.

Not only does this boss STILL have 3x more health than any other fractal boss in the game, but none of these fixes address the bugs with its one-shot mechanics, like the goddamn eye mechanic's terrible hit detection where you can get hit even if you're looking away from the eyes on the last walkable pixel of the platform, or the fact that for some players the blast triggers up to 3 times in a row randomly for no reason even after it finished, or the fact that the newly undodgeable numbers attack basically downs you if you have less than 100% hp when it starts.

Instead of rushing out half-baked content that will make people want to play the game less, how about you actually release it in a finished state?

I'm not your goddamn beta tester, and this isn't an early-access game.

At the very least, don't shove terrible unfinished content into the daily reward system. Make it a separate daily - hell - make it separate content since it's clearly not a fractal and doesn't belong there, only existing to make the daily take longer and reward zero extra loot every time it pops up.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Requenz.1429]

On 7/25/2023 at 7:33 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

All checkpoints now require only two players regardless of fractal tier.

Please just make it dependent on the group size so that half of the players must be present.
⌈Group size divided by 2⌉ resp. written out : smallest integer greater than or equal to half the group size.

[Poki.8235]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:14 AM, Elzo Yell.1784 said:

For those like me using Action Camera, you need to zoom out to 1000% to maybe be able to reach the center of the platform, and not fall into your death (or get stuck INSIDE the platform), otherwise it's impossible. You can still swap camera mode during fight but it's extremely disturbing. Having something above each platform seems a good solution. Plus, replace the special skill with the 1 of grapple in CM: swapping to the grapple to use the grapple is completly stupid. 

As a heavy Action Cam user, I think we have to concede this. I got used to switching out for some targeting stuff cause and I suggest you do to. I wish Action Cam got some QOL updates and was more openly supported, instead of just being a hidden keybind, but that's not the current state of the game.

On 7/28/2023 at 8:42 AM, soul.9651 said:

... Why the hell cm should be forgiving for mistakes "shouldnt kill you"? Just play normal mode then. Fixing bugs is one thing, but why the hell should they destroy entire cm just for "you".. the only thing they should do is to fix bugs faster, not in a month.. if there is some wvw "bugs" they sure manage to hotfix stuff within days, but hey if its anything else, we can wait a month or two -.-..

I did all the PvE content in this game including this CM and HTCM. I don't need things getting easier and, like @SoftFootpaws.9134 (who actually bothered to read my post unlike you it seems) it's not about being easier, only consistent with the game more that is Fractals. If the only reason this fractal is hard is because attack insta-kill you, then that's a pretty kitten fractal. In fact, I'd like to point out how surprisingly lenient several fractal CMs are. People being revived in Shattered's mid-boss or Nightmare's final boss? There being a checkpoint between phases at Sunqua? Not insta-dying on Shattered when you fall? Would any of these fractals be BETTER if those things were changed? I don't think so.

 

On 7/30/2023 at 5:54 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

You obviously don't get the mechanic here: when the 66% and 33% tether phase pops up, you stand still until the tether vanishes and the blue beam guiding you to your island appears. Tethers don't get "taken away" by the Aspects, they are being stolen from other players who are moving around like headless chicken and crossing, thereby interrupting, your tether. Simply don't move until you got (or didn't get) tethered. 😄

You wish it was this simple. I once got a tether, the mob vanished and went to a platform.... but not for me. A person next to me that was targeted at the time by a different add for my add instead. That second as then proceeded to twittle it's thumbs for a few seconds before deciding to retarget on me, giving me not enough time to do the mechanic. It was not "stolen" by that player. None of us moved.

Blocking by someone else is obviously a thing that can happen, but it's not always the reason for "late" tethers, and "Late Tethers" should NEVER happen regardless. This is an insta-kill mechanic. It needs to work like clockwork EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Blocking shouldn't delay tethers, ever. It should be, and what I think is the intended reason they can be blocked in the first place, a way to grab it by DPS players so the healer doesn't have to try to kill an add, but because of the incredibly buggy nature of this fractal people are scarred to move instead.

On 7/27/2023 at 10:06 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

@Rubi Bayer.8493 Toxic Sickness should be removed from Fractals altogether. Having to pause whatever you're doing in favor of turning away to vomit isn't a fun mechanic. 😄

Also, the use of portals should be blocked in Silent Surf as people use them to cheat mechanics and cheese the title. Or just block off the "safe area" by an invisible wall!
 

You can puke on the enemies to do damage. You can stack, since the very start of the come doesn't hit allies. If you don't want to stack, you can stick close to each other and puke in an incomplete half-circle. You only need to turn around if people are all over the place. I'll admit, it's not a fun or interesting instability (I don't like most of them) but you don't have to turn around if people are playing well.

I also disagree about the portal thing (In fact, why is the White Mantle Portal Device, a raid reward, not usable in raids? Come on guys...) but the "safe spot" for World Cleaver has to be fixed, completely agreed on this point.

On 7/27/2023 at 12:27 PM, Raven Enjoyer.3204 said:

Have you been looking at afflicted? All those condis stack up fast that even our very capable hfb struggled even with full minstrel in the end. Might wanna look at that one too.

Yeah, Afflicted is proving to be a slight problem, though it's hard for me to judge it since I always played with at least one Scourge, but there can be a lot of adds in some situations applying these conditions, and you can't do anything about them. You can't actively decide to do a tether mechanic to get rid of some adds, you have to wait for the ads to do it themselves. Failing a CC often does this, but also spawns an extra add, so you end up at net zero. Reflects and Blocks should be helpful, but the adds attack very haphazardly and you have to move around and split a lot during the fight, so I'm not sure how much they help anyway.