Updates coming to Silent Surf August 22

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Ok with all changes except for the hp being lowered, UNLESS you recharge all you skills if you succeed a cc bar.  Lower health means faster cc phases, meaning high dps group will be punished.

[Sirius.4510]

There's also a bug where if multiple people get targeted with axes, one of the players may not see the spreading circle AoE around the other player. This can be pretty painful on CM. If it's not too late, it'd be good to get that fixed for August 22 as well. 

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

This fight takes forever on all tiers, the HP need cut in half at least.

What is the point of giving us dodge and not letting us use it? 

A lot of my groups are actively avoiding this fractal and the forums are filled with complaints that it is too hard and takes too long and all I see here are changes to make it worse.  Make the CM hard to satisfy the powergamers and nerf the regular or take it out of the daily rotation.

I think a 20% hp reduction is good enough, but it should be on all tiers of course, not just cm. That 20% + the powercreep that is coming and will come is more than enough.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Poki.8235]

This is a good step, but just a step. More things should be done and I'm surprised they aren't being done.

- As others have said, the fight is too long compared to other fights. This isn't supposed to be a "Harvest Temple CM" of fractals, is it?

- 33/66% phase should be altered. The tethers behave very weirdly, fire at inconsistent times, and these are not the fault of players walking over each other. "Late" tethers kill runs. Rework this section so that all tethers start firing at the same time and only AFTER everyone gets Phantasmagoria the timer starts. Reduce World Cleavers timer to compensate.

- Right after World Cleaver, the last person coming back has to panic because a new mechanic starts while they're flying back. At least add some delay to the mechanics starting.

- I have been gazed on by invisible eyes, or eyes I have definitely not been looking on multiple times (and also by ones I was looking at, not complaining about that). I hope that all of those get fixes because of Quick / Sugar rush, and not just the de-synched ones? All aspects are going to have eyes visible now, right?

- Speaking of eyes, maybe add a line between you and the eye when you're facing an eye, like in Shattered Observatory? Why isn't there one?

- Toxic trail would be fine if it didn't instantly appear when Kanaxai is jumping during "numbers". Can't you just change that part? No?

- Only 1 or 2 of the red circles for players targeted by spinning Axes are visible instead of all of them. Please fix that too.

- I'm pretty adamant about reworking the grappling hook mechanic cause it's not very fun fiddling with it during the fight. I'd much rather every "island" have a small area designated for them on the main platform, and if you're in that area you can press the SAK and fly to the platform...

[MagicBot.1570]

Good changes. Could you also fix Vengeance and Toxic Trail? Both instabilities don't work properly!

[Katary.7096]

Thank you for the heads-up.

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Fixed an issue that allowed Frightening Speed to be blocked.

Effects which convert incoming damage into healing could still prevent this skill from dealing damage. Perhaps that can be adressed as well?

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• The final boss and the Aspects no longer gain alacrity, regeneration, or quickness from boon-stealing attacks.
• Sugar Rush has been removed from the list of Mistlock Instabilities for Silent Surf.

Good choice.

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The final boss's health has been reduced on Challenge mode.

Out of five different difficulty settings you nerf the one on which the massive health pool of the boss is the most reasonable? I'm going to need an explanation for this one.

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• All checkpoints now require only two players regardless of fractal tier.

I understand that fractals are group content, but if you are dropping the requirement down to two players you might as well go all the way and make it one.

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

In addition to Sugar Rush, the following instabilities have been removed from Silent Surf: Mists Convergence and Toxic Sickness.

That's probably a good idea.

[Blackari.2051]

so there are 10+ fixes for the new fractal/CM yet you will happily wait 1 month to implement them (some of which are literally encounter breaking), instead of pushing these fixes next tuesday ? ...
i really try to find a logic in this, but its impossible

[Vidit.7108]

I'd like some clarification on why this isn't getting a hot fix. 

I'm also a little confused how you designed an encounter that is essentially breaking itself slowly. IIRC there was another encounter or an enemy that several years ago that had a similar problem with stealing alacrity and quickness why exactly did this mistake get made a second time? Why wasn't it noticed sooner?

I would also like to know more about this sugar rush situation. This isn't a new instability so why does it only desync silent surf? Has it been doing this to every fractal the entire time? What's making silent surf different?

[Lion.6590]

Good changes, but can the fight telegraphs get some better visual clarity? Like using the correct visual indicators for attacks that can't be dodged, blocked or invul. Increased the contrast and saturation of the attacks so they don't blend easily with player skill effects like Mind Shock, Sandstorm Shroud and Vindicator dodge.

[Aravind.9610]

Does this mean we can dodge the roman numeral attacks again?

[Zaxares.5419]

Thanks for the changes. They mostly look quite good. A few points I would like to raise though:

1. I would urge you to revert the change that prevented Frightening Speed from being dodged/blocked. A large part of the challenge of Fractals is knowing how to avoid/mitigate damage (no-healer runs are fairly common among the upper echelons of players seeking to clear Fractals as quickly as possible, for example) through positioning, CC and similar foreknowledge. Currently Frightening Speed clearly serves as a kind of "health pressure" since it does a flat 50% of your health, but doing so also takes away the ability/satisfaction of players to counter it by dodging at the right time.

2. Kanaxai's health in NM could also stand to be reduced a bit, perhaps by 20%. His fight STRONGLY favours condi and ranged DPS, with the result that melee/burst builds are quite handicapped against him and result in the fight feeling longer than it ought to be. Shaving his health down a bit should help improve the feeling of progress during burn periods.

3. As a side-effect of 2, consider also reducing Kanaxai's breakbar (or his breakbar resistance) slightly. A lower health pool means less time for CC to recharge, and as it is a lot of groups in NM completely skip his CC mechanic anyway in favour of having more available burn time when he's not moving. We should be encouraging players to engage with the CC mechanic by making it slightly easier and improving the benefits of breaking his bar (perhaps by making Kanaxai deal less damage and increasing his cooldowns for each stack he has).

[ovalle.4163]

i believe that anet is trying to fix a problem they don't understand in the worst way possible here... a bunch of people complain online about the chonky hp bar of the boss, and the only reason they complain about it is because the fight itself and its mechanics are so tedious that making it longer with a huge hp bar only makes it worse.

the real problem is that the fight is FULL of mechanics that force you to stop chipping at the hp.

the worst offender is frightening speed (numbers mechanic)... first it forces you to spread out, then it forces you to watch as the boss takes their sweet time jumping from player to player to deal their unavoidable 50% of your health. and in cm after 33% you cant even range dps him cuz he fears you as well if you look at him. does this mechanic need to be such a huge speed bump on top of being a healing check? either let that slow hell be over quickly, or let us dodge the highly telegraphed attack, give us a reason to want to engage with the fight instead of forcing us to take a break every minute to watch 20 seconds of our time be wasted by this tomfoolery.

and that is on top of dread visage(eye mechanic) and the 66% and 33% phases also forcing us to disengage the boss.

the reason people complain about the huge hp bar is because the fight is a huge annoying chore and not an engaging encounter.... add to that the fact that it is full of punishing mistakes that can not be recovered from that would force the group to start it from scratch all over again and you get more than a few people willing to skip it than deal with it (specially since half of those mistakes are not caused by poor gameplay but rather by the sheer jank of it being an unpolished new release... personally i have been wiped more times by a faulty hook/mushroom or a delayed tether than i have by failing to turn around to an eye or spread to a number or bleed out from an axe).

you are trying to solve this problem by making this chore of a fight a bit shorter (but still just as miserable). you "fixed" the issues of the boss having too much health and the unavoidable damage being somehow avoidable when you should have been focused on fixing the issues that make people not want to engage with it.

don't try to make this punishment shorter in hopes people will bear with it, try to make it so it doesn't feel like a punishment in the first place.

here is my suggestion, make it so the boss only does frightening speed (numbers) if you fail to break his breakbar instead of summoning a new aspect that honestly people can just ignore along the other aspects they are already ignoring... the number of cc phases and it getting harder and harder would mean that it would be extremely hard to never see it at all, and players good enough to do it deserve that reward, and losing 50% of your health would be a suitable punishment for failing to cc in the first place, on top of making people willing to ignore the mechanic in favour of pumping damage regret their decision. if the group is dpsing fast enough that hey cant keep up the cc then the speedbump will serve its purpose as a speedbump.

[Frostbyte.8314]

did the bug fix is live already or will be coming on august 22?

[KlAsIcO.9160]

at least give a special title or something to everyone who took the time to look for ppl and hard work their way to beat the fractal as it is now. i think is deserved to everyone who worked hard developing teamplay, patience, empathy and everything. 

[Haluan.4832]

@Rubi Bayer.8493

tethers?

grappling hook?

[Nitro.4732]

I am glad I got the achievements done before the incomming nerf.  Honestly should just rename the Challenge Mote to  Cheese Mote, cause thats exactly what this is.... can't do the "Challenge"?  just cheese it and revive orb your way to victory.

Secondly...  it seems to me that Potions of Demon Slaying and Sigils of Demon slaying are the biggest useless item in the game since the one piece of CM content they should have been available for seems to be ignored.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Nitro.4732

[ZerosLune.6720]

Perhaps consider making some slight changes to the map itself:

• Create a pilar on the back of each aspect platform, so we can hook to those. Even if the hook does not take exactly where you aimed, you would still land on the platform.
• Tilt the jumping mushrooms so that they are horizontal. That way we won't slide to our death if for some reason the mushroom catapult does not trigger

On a different note, it would perhaps be best if the first "pre" fight was removed in CM. In normal mode it serves a purpose to introduce mechanics, just like the first fights in Sunqua Peak. But once you're doing CM, you know the machanics and it's not an interesting o fun to repeat fight. Feel more like "trash mobs". I think it would be better if was skipped completely and you could just take your mistlock and parachute straight to the boss in CM.

Aside from that, I have to give a +1 to most of Poki's suggestions:

12 hours ago, Poki.8235 said:

- 33/66% phase should be altered. The tethers behave very weirdly, fire at inconsistent times, and these are not the fault of players walking over each other. "Late" tethers kill runs. Rework this section so that all tethers start firing at the same time and only AFTER everyone gets Phantasmagoria the timer starts. Reduce World Cleavers timer to compensate.

- Right after World Cleaver, the last person coming back has to panic because a new mechanic starts while they're flying back. At least add some delay to the mechanics starting.

- I have been gazed on by invisible eyes, or eyes I have definitely not been looking on multiple times (and also by ones I was looking at, not complaining about that). I hope that all of those get fixes because of Quick / Sugar rush, and not just the de-synched ones? All aspects are going to have eyes visible now, right?

- Speaking of eyes, maybe add a line between you and the eye when you're facing an eye, like in Shattered Observatory? Why isn't there one?

- Only 1 or 2 of the red circles for players targeted by spinning Axes are visible instead of all of them. Please fix that too.

 

[LiveFyre.3186]

18 hours ago, TheThief.8475 said:

Title achievement requires the party to reset instance every time someone dies. I think it's intentional but there's no reason for that. Please change the requiremenet to "defeat the boss of SS in CM  without anyone dying" instead of "complete the fractal SS in CM  without anyone dying". It's one of the most annoying things I've even seen in GW2.

Shattered Observatory CM is the same way. Pretty sure the only reason Sunqua was changed is because of CM taking you straight to the end.

[Poki.8235]

One more thing I forgot to say, is that insta-death mechanics in fractals should be used very sparingly. This CM has a lot of them. Mistlock is almost useless. I'd propose these changes:

- Failed World Cleaver doesn't kill everyone, just downs everyone. Mistlock not has a use in this attack. Recovering from a party down is still very unlikely. This is more consistent with other "party wipe if failed" mechanics, like Sorrows or Bombs.

- Falling off the arena shouldn't kill you. It should teleport you onto the platform and down you, triggering Mistlock. I also have an alternative idea: Give people 2 parachutes instead of 1 in the last chest and teleport them above the platform so they have to use a parachute to save themselves from lethal fall damage. Unfortunately the problem with that idea is that having a grappling hook can also save them.

- Wrong "Numbers" shouldn't kill you, just do extra damage and down you. The damage can be high, so that you're very likely to die if you don't have Mistlock.

- "Eyes" also shouldn't kill you if you have a Mistlock. They can do extra damage to downed.

Would all this make the CM too easy? IDK. Maybe? That's not really my point here though. It's about maintaining consistency with other fractals. I know the combat design changed with EoD CMs, and mostly for the better. I love EoD CMs when they don't bug out (*cough* KO *cough*), I really do! But I have breaking the rules, and this Fractal breaks a lot of Fractal rules... 5 man content needs to be designed a bit differently then 10 man content.

PS: Oh, please change the Infusion stat-swap recipe to use 2 Integrated Fractal Matrices instead of a Stabilised Prophet Crystal like the other Fractal infusions do.

PS2: Fix the Last Word axe unlock to be 25 CM clears like the text says and not 30.

[Visbale.6951]

22 hours ago, Phyrosite.2504 said:

Thank you for the fixes; however, making Frightening Speed both unable to be blocked and unable to be dodged isn't very fun in my opinion. Please let us use the tools available to us to deal with mechanics, counterplay is fun.

I agree with you, but let's be honest, the fight is poor in mechanics and the boss has few attacks that present danger. 
Adding a counterplay to the only attack that brings you danger on the platform would make the fight much worse/easier than it currently is. Next step would be what? Not receive fear from eyes using stability? Jesus Christ...

I've played this fight countless times and I can say that like Sunqua, people thought it was very difficult, but actually it's extremely easy, people just need a little effort and learn how to fight.

The only thing I would like to see changed in this fight would be the bug fixes (thank God, some of them are coming), and HP reduction. Killing a boss that has the same HP as a Dhuum CM with 5 people is tiring and overwhelming. I wouldn't even consider adding this fight to a daily run with currently boss HP.

[anbujackson.9564]

On 7/25/2023 at 7:33 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

All checkpoints now require only two players regardless of fractal tier.

Pretty much all I wanted to see, thanks.

[Kaelum.4237]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:33 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

As you can imagine we are all heads down on the final stretch before Secrets of the Obscure launches on August 22--only four more weeks! Our next full build is scheduled to ship then, so we'll include these updates with that.

I know this isn't the right place, but the WvW forum seems to be radio silent from Dev's, so bleeding it out here. Does this mean that we shouldn't expect another WvW beta until after the expansion? Will we ever be getting an update about Alliances and next steps? Anet mentioned in a blog post on 6/28 that we would be getting an update "within the next week or so" and its now been nearly a month. I understand being heads down in prep for the next expansion, but even just a "we missed the deadline, sorry. Please expect an update after the expansion" is better than nothing. 

[SolarDragon.7063]

On 7/26/2023 at 6:40 AM, Phyrosite.2504 said:

Thank you for the fixes; however, making Frightening Speed both unable to be blocked and unable to be dodged isn't very fun in my opinion. Please let us use the tools available to us to deal with mechanics, counterplay is fun.

What, losing 1/2 or more of your health inescapably to a mechanic that stops you DPSing isn't fun?

[Rabid.9138]

all you have to do is replace the hook with the shroom and fix the tethers overlaps. Also why are we waiting 1 month for the fix?@Rubi Bayer.8493

[Raven Enjoyer.3204]

Have you been looking at afflicted? All those condis stack up fast that even our very capable hfb struggled even with full minstrel in the end. Might wanna look at that one too.