Is there a reason why GW2 PvP is so poorly balanced?

[Shagie.7612]

1 hour ago, michixlol.9340 said:

In WoW there are never classes that have not chance.

lol
what?

i love when people here comment on other mmos because they never seem to have any idea what's actually happening in them
like they clearly either never played or did once 20 years ago and had no understanding of the game

if you're gonna say that every spec can always be helpful in wow, the same is absolutely true in GW2 because both games offer the ability to outplay people simply because we're not all perfectly playing robots. that's not a useful metric.
there absolutely are and have always been specs that are as close to "no chance" as you can possibly get.

 

anyways, it's because pvp balancing is difficult, and mmo players largely don't care about pvp across the entire genre so there's no reason to care about it (read: money)

Edited December 10, 2023 by Shagie.7612

[Swagg.9236]

Short Answer:  It's an MMORPG.

Less Short Answer:  GW2 is an MMORPG that didn't have any actual roles in it when it launched, and anet never attempted to rectify this.  They "solution" was basically to crank numbers and bake in more and more passive mitigations so that people could actually use all of their skills in PvP without dying to an Elementalist or a Thief (which are still the baseline archetypes for god-tier easy mode builds in GW2).  This first lead to "Rule by the One With the Most Buttons" (which is why Elementalist and Thief were kings at the start), and in order to drag the other classes up to match that, the other classes eventually just became derivative copies of Elementalist and Thief.  By the way, it's insanely un-fun to fight an Elementalist or Thief if you aren't also playing one; however, if you make everyone into the same class, then there is no room for skill expression and emergent gameplay.  The game is now defined by patch notes rather than player skill.  The only reason this is such a hang-up is that people from 2014 still want to keep holding on to the CRUSTIEST of glories and convince everyone that they're "good" at a video game that doesn't really require that much effort.

Esoteric Knowledge Answer:  You can't give a player 20-30 skills, and then only "balance" their effects and usage by cooldowns.  Moreover, trade-offs create playstyles, and GW2 only buffs things without establishing any baseline capability limits for new gimmicks.  Considering how spammy GW2 can be, it would have made way more sense to balance its asinine volume of skills per class with longer cast-times, builder/tear-down resources, baseline energy/stamina resources, and/or charge-up tiers in order to promote risky time investment into effects rather than just front-loading all of the power onto the back of throwaway cast times that are either instant or never last longer than 0.75s.

You'll Never Have a Role Answer:  The most interesting mechanics and gimmicks in this game are generally locked as utilities or passive traitlines that have been nerfed out of usage because the opportunity cost to take them will never outweigh the capability to be another Elementalist or Thief.  This game should have only had 4 professions at the most, and none of those 4 professions really ought to have had more than 10-15 skills a piece.

Guild Wars 1 Answer:  Anet almost certainly built PvE before PvP, and the professions themselves were almost certainly designed in respective vacuums rather than collectively with a holistic sense of small-scale skirmish roles in mind.  Every class in GW2 is a one-man army with no real obligation to anyone else because every class more or less does the same thing without any effort.  Every class in GW1 is part of a whole because every class has a number of deficiencies and outright weaknesses; any one class in that game can't necessarily function effectively within any given situation without some level of teamwork.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Swagg.9236

[Stalima.5490]

The only way I could see them fixing these things is if they literally give every elite spec it's own individual trait set rather than just global traits for every spec, potentially even completely different weapon abilities based on elite spec even.

But imagine the amount of work that would require...

Imagine a scrapper with a lightning gun instead of a standard rifle, holo with a laser rifle and mechanist with a jade rifle almost like a plasma rifle.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[Sahne.6950]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:00 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Removing dodge would be the best step this game could ever take..

Every day we stray further from god.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

14 hours ago, Swagg.9236 said:

Short Answer:  It's an MMORPG.

Less Short Answer:  GW2 is an MMORPG that didn't have any actual roles in it when it launched, and anet never attempted to rectify this.  They "solution" was basically to crank numbers and bake in more and more passive mitigations so that people could actually use all of their skills in PvP without dying to an Elementalist or a Thief (which are still the baseline archetypes for god-tier easy mode builds in GW2).  This first lead to "Rule by the One With the Most Buttons" (which is why Elementalist and Thief were kings at the start), and in order to drag the other classes up to match that, the other classes eventually just became derivative copies of Elementalist and Thief.  By the way, it's insanely un-fun to fight an Elementalist or Thief if you aren't also playing one; however, if you make everyone into the same class, then there is no room for skill expression and emergent gameplay.  The game is now defined by patch notes rather than player skill.  The only reason this is such a hang-up is that people from 2014 still want to keep holding on to the CRUSTIEST of glories and convince everyone that they're "good" at a video game that doesn't really require that much effort.

Esoteric Knowledge Answer:  You can't give a player 20-30 skills, and then only "balance" their effects and usage by cooldowns.  Moreover, trade-offs create playstyles, and GW2 only buffs things without establishing any baseline capability limits for new gimmicks.  Considering how spammy GW2 can be, it would have made way more sense to balance its asinine volume of skills per class with longer cast-times, builder/tear-down resources, baseline energy/stamina resources, and/or charge-up tiers in order to promote risky time investment into effects rather than just front-loading all of the power onto the back of throwaway cast times that are either instant or never last longer than 0.75s.

You'll Never Have a Role Answer:  The most interesting mechanics and gimmicks in this game are generally locked as utilities or passive traitlines that have been nerfed out of usage because the opportunity cost to take them will never outweigh the capability to be another Elementalist or Thief.  This game should have only had 4 professions at the most, and none of those 4 professions really ought to have had more than 10-15 skills a piece.

Guild Wars 1 Answer:  Anet almost certainly built PvE before PvP, and the professions themselves were almost certainly designed in respective vacuums rather than collectively with a holistic sense of small-scale skirmish roles in mind.  Every class in GW2 is a one-man army with no real obligation to anyone else because every class more or less does the same thing without any effort.  Every class in GW1 is part of a whole because every class has a number of deficiencies and outright weaknesses; any one class in that game can't necessarily function effectively within any given situation without some level of teamwork.

Wonder which classes roll u the most lol. This post reads of some heavy bias,just saying.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lmao removing dodge is best step game can make, wtf that's asinine. The fact gw2 combat is so enjoyable is the fact the implemented a dodge. Whoever said this can go go back to wow oe runescape and enjoy the dated static combat, leave our more modern, fluid combat alone.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

That cat is a snow flake that will die to two maybe 3 hits if mukluck was any kind of good player.  He's facing a prince of the arena so a number two player in the community was his opponent. No reason to complain about anything. All is fine.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

On 8/3/2023 at 6:00 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

''. Removing dodge would be the best step this game could ever take.. 

Go play gw1 no dodge there. 

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Go play gw1 no dodge there. 

With some specs of necro, warrior and gaurdian, there is no dodging in Gw2 either 😜

Edited December 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Cuks.8241]

I've played wow pvp for about 6 years religiously. No way was ever wow more varied than gw2. Not even close. Now wow arena was more competitive at some point and maybe that is why meta was more narrowly defined. But there were seasons or multiple seasons where the whole season you had only 2 team compositions that were viable. And by this I mean specific classes with specific builds. Extreme example was the early 2v2 meta (I think in TBC) when lock/druid were dominating and the only comp that had a chance against it was rogue/mage, maybe rogue/priest. And rogue/mage and rogue/priest only really had a chance if the lock/drud did a mistake. There was one guy that could make it happen on hunter with hunter/druid but he was literary anomaly and probably the best player at the time. Blizz didn't know how to fix (especially the druid) and just scrapped 2v2 from tournies.

GW2 has great class variety in pvp. But like I mentioned if we had really competitive scene the top players would probably narrow it down. But I also doubt that meta would be anything like players think it would be right now and it would probably be nowhere close to soloQ meta.

As for the CC diminishing returns that keeps getting mentioned. You can't compare wow cc to gw2 cc. First of all everyone in gw2 can equip cc breaks / condi removals. Anyone. This is not the case in wow. All skills in gw2 have CD. In wow some classes have breaks but only against specific CCs. Some classes have cleanses but again only against specific CC and those are not self breaks. In early wow it was literary possible by some classes to get enemy players in never ending cc chains. You even have cc like cyclone that can't be dispelled or broken by anything but pvp trinket. And it was very easy to sustain it because you have plenty of spamable CC without CD, no positional requirement for casting it beyond being in range and stuff like focus macros. Pvp trinket and DR were a must in wow. Even now you can get someone that has trinket on CD in a 17.5 sec CC chain with polymorph if there is no one that can dispel it. You can get someone in a 10.5 sec cyclone if his trinket is on CD and no one can do anything about it.  In gw2 everyone is able to counter CC and all CC skills have CDs so if you get into a long chain it is entirely your and your teams fault. 

Edit: seems like since wod cyclone can be dispelled by mass dispel from priest and broken by mage and paladin block and bubble. Was not the case when I played till mop. still very limited dispells only by very high value, long cd spells for a spamable ranged cc.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Cuks.8241

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 8/3/2023 at 6:00 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

Removing dodge would be the best step this game could ever take.. becuase the developers would then be forced to deal with the absolutely toxic amount of dps that is being thrown around. They also may then have to deal with stealth and target drops, which are way over used in this game with not near enough downside. 

I need you

To understand

That your argument is "I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for these meddling kids."

The dodge mechanic is there so you have an answer to those things you think are problematic. The meddling kids are there so there's a show revolving around catching the villain. That mechanic and the combat choices surrounding it were not developed separate from each other. If you need to have dodge removed to form your argument about what state the game needs to be in to force a consideration of reworks, you don't have an argument.

If you're going to argue that damage is too high or that stealth and target drops are the bane of existence, go for it. Your argument collapses immediately if you frame it like you did here, though.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I need you

To understand

That your argument is "I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for these meddling kids."

The dodge mechanic is there so you have an answer to those things you think are problematic. The meddling kids are there so there's a show revolving around catching the villain. That mechanic and the combat choices surrounding it were not developed separate from each other. If you need to have dodge removed to form your argument about what state the game needs to be in to force a consideration of reworks, you don't have an argument.

If you're going to argue that damage is too high or that stealth and target drops are the bane of existence, go for it. Your argument collapses immediately if you frame it like you did here, though.

I need you to understand the context of that post. It was at the tail end of power meta, the likes of scrapper were jumping from stealth and destroying people in under 3 seconds even after a stunbreak or well timed jump dodge (not every time ofc). At that time I was playing specs that had more sustained damage, and this was my gripe; If I missed vital dodges of the scrapper, I took massive damage and died. If the scrapper missed multiple dodges/mitigation efforts on my moderate-sustained damage spec, it didnt die. That same logic applys to current specs like DH.. the punishment for missing dodges is NOT equally distributed and I think if you are being honest you know what I am getting at.

 

SB OPness came around not long after that post if I remember correctly. I got a 16k maul crit, thats 1 ability.. doing enough damage to 1 shot nion half the power builds in the game at that time. That was just 1 ability, never mind all the hard/soft CC, track, lock on and evade damage of SB. Again, if you were playing a moderate-sustained dps spec VS a SB.. the consequences of the SB failing his dodges is nowhere near the same. I understand that this is the nature of "burst specs".. however, lack of dodge skill should be punished, yet on front loaded/stealth jump specs (many of which lately also have attack while invuln).. there lack of dodge skill is not punished near as hard. They get to spew out 10+ seconds of faceroll damage during long invuln/block durations that negate any real need for actual dodge skill. In-fact, most of such players just weave a dodge between there blocks/invulns/evades.. almost like a pve rotation. That is not reactive dodging, but thats where the game led into, through specs like scrapper.. and ANets massive overuse of stealth, evades, invulns etc etc. 

 

My reasoning is quite simple, make all specs suffer for missing key dodges, or simply remove the concept of dodges and give all specs active mitigation. But that isnt what happened though 😜 The game now has a nubmer of burst/condi bomb specs that abuse blocks/invulns as one extreme (all of the above). The next extreme is more bunkery focused or playstyle specs like scourge, core gaurd, sometimes virt, and all of warrior, that can face tank with easy applied, long duration blocks/invulns/shield, and passive mitigations. A dodge is very finite, you need to use it at the correct time, these blocks, invulns, passive traits etc etc last long enough to negate any real timing that is needed for dodges.

 

I like the concept of dodging.. but the consequences of failing dodges is even less distributed in the present game as shown above. So then think about playing a spec that isnt front loaded with invulns while bursting.. or doesnt have face tank forgiving mechanics. Why play such a spec?.. now go look at 90% of sPVP spec representation; Zerkers, core garuds, necro, SB, virts. All have one or both of the above issues in common. It isnt about the overall effectiveness of any given class or spec (in before the just focus the necro crowd). Any person who plays a power burst spec has by now seen how rediculessly passive it is for the likes of scourge, core garud or warrior to negate your burst, with 0 concious effort. Take warrior.. you stun him before you goto open with power damage, he breaks it and is now immune to physical damage and can also attack back. If that zerker was any spec that doesnt have attack while immune in that manner, now has to think about dodging/mitigating right after that break.. you can't do damage while dodging, so you are still on the back foot. Warrior? stun break+attack.. which "can" put him straight on the front foot, thats his reward for eating your CC. I mean think about that.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Leger.3724]

I like how the answers OP is getting is "oh it's just your typical MMO". They're right. The combat is bad by design because they built it like a traditional MMO only worse because they decided to go the "classless" route and shoehorned in action combat to top it off. It's a chaotic, poorly designed mess. And every expansion since, every balance patch since has attempted to bandaid the fundamental design problem while pushing more problems into combat so pvers feel they get new content in the form of specializations and new weapons.

Guild Wars 1 was innovative. It was different than Runescape, Everquest, World of Warcraft. At least New World tried to bring back some sense and innovation to the genre like Guild Wars 1 did back in the day. New World had its own problems and is in trouble now but at least with that game I can honestly say the fundamental design of combat was decent. There was potential that was squandered with pve being grindy, time-gated and lonely while the pvp everyone wanted to play (wars) got locked off pretty quickly to most people.

There are no fixes here for Guild Wars 2 short of extreme action that would basically be a rework of combat at such a fundamental level it would inevitably kitten of pvers and so it's never going to happen.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Leger.3724

[Swagg.9236]

10 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Wonder which classes roll u the most lol. This post reads of some heavy bias,just saying.

Tell me the two builds I run and my rank then.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

"Then hopped into SPVP for a single match to immediately be one-shotted (16K+ damage) by a single grenade barrage from stealth.

And everyone that still plays darn well knows there's an endless array of similarly toxic garbage throughout WvW and SPVP that has completely destroyed the integrity of GW2's PVP.

There is ZERO excuse for any of this. Without cycling their numerous invulnerabilities in PVP, players drop faster than a lot of the common trash mobs found in PVE. It's mind-blowing. Class balance is not the primary issue. It's just common sense to find these numbers and the game mechanics that enable them beyond appalling if you care at all about a healthy PVP scene. It's bad game design 101 and if pressing a single button wipes out a third or a fourth of your enemy's HP, LET ALONE one shots or kills him twice over, then something has gone terribly wrong.

Adding more boons, evades, blocks, invulns, etc. just so you don't get instantly deleted IS NOT HOW YOU FIX THIS ISSUE. You're propagating the very kitten that needs to be treated by adding more destructive and unhealthy mechanics just to avoid the ridiculous damage, through that process justifying the need for absurd numbers.

This is not that complicated, why hasn't it ever been addressed? Why doesn't ANET stop and thin"

Edited December 12, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[vilesoldier.9826]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:15 PM, ccccc.4963 said:

they could also ban every ele player

 

forever spitting.

I've seen the intense mental warping that playing an 11k hp ele in your first 2 years of GW2 can do and it isn't pretty.

Edited December 12, 2023 by vilesoldier.9826

[Kuma.1503]

Because Anet is bad at balance. 

Also...

Because we nuke builds from orbit based on playrate (a popular build with average performance will get nerfed)

And how annoying people think it is to fight. 

Players consisently give the devs positive feedback for unbalancing the game. 

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:47 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

I understand that this is the nature of "burst specs".. however, lack of dodge skill should be punished, yet on front loaded/stealth jump specs (many of which lately also have attack while invuln).. there lack of dodge skill is not punished near as hard.

Dont take this personal please! i like you! i am just trying to open your eyes here.

I think its crazy funny, how you think playing bad on these specs gets you anywhere. For example, lets take the ol burstscrapper you were talking about.    You need to understand that they die the second they dont dodge or block even a single condiburst, because they have exactly 0 ways of dealing with condis.

If your build can NOT punish people for doing mistakes... its more a sign that your build is severly lacking damage.... and not that the enemy´s builds are braindead strong.

 

No offense... but removing the dodge is the single worst idea i have heard in a long time.   And you argument makes exactly 0 sense. Your whole argument boils down to:

->i cant kill the enemy even when they do a mistake and straight up eat my damage, but at the same time i am also not tanky enough to take a burst, when i do the mistake.<-

and your solution is... to remove dodgerolls!? 😵

When i hear the term "sustained-Damage"  i already see you running your selfmade halfbunker-halfsupport Ventaribuild, trying to slowly widdle down your enemys, while doing 300 dmg torment ticks and 250 bleed on top... and then wondering why you simply explode when facing a real build.

 Its a tough pill to swallow.... but your build is just not good... atleast not in this meta.   If anything you should be advocating buffs to your own build. 

But creating arguments around the fact, you cant even kill a burstspec when it facetanks you.... and then wanting to change the whole combatdesign of gw2 because of that.... argh.... idk man XD 

correct me if i am wrong... but i think this is exactly what is happening.     

 

Furthermore, your anticipated change, will actually have the exact opposite outcome than what you think will happen.

removing the dodgemechanic, would dump down gw2s skill ceiling EVEN more, and not increase it.  It would simply turn gw2 into a dps/healing check.... who can dish out the most dps, while also healing the enemys DPS.   

It would literally result in 2 opponents standing infront of eachother hammering buttons, and praying the other one dies first XD

I hope you see the flaw here.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Assolador.3598]

On 12/10/2023 at 4:57 PM, michixlol.9340 said:

I mean come on.. PvP in GW2 has been pretty sh** for a very long time. Devs don't develop anything for PvP anymore. You only have a chance if you go full meta. And there still is a Dragonhunter or something that can twoshot you. And for everyone who says, because MMO, no! In WoW there are never classes that have not chance. When I did PvP in WoW years ago I could improve, I could with every class be helpful. And when I was killed in just a few blows I knew, with better gear this could change. GW2 does nothing with gear tho. Everybody is the same. And still you get two shotted. in some cases. It's stun stun stun dead. 

I try to get into PvP in GW2 very often, but it's poorly designed and it gets no love anymore in any way. There hasn't been a light at the end of the tunnel for many years. And it's always been the same since I started in 2016. 

paladin player on wow detected, it's either that or ice mage

[GenerationX.9178]

honestly its the match manipulation and low population/alt accounts.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Because Anet is bad at balance. 

Also...

Because we nuke builds from orbit based on playrate (a popular build with average performance will get nerfed)

And how annoying people think it is to fight. 

Players consisently give the devs positive feedback for unbalancing the game. 

This is best answer realistically.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:57 PM, michixlol.9340 said:

Everybody is the same. And still you get two shotted. in some cases. It's stun stun stun dead. 

You get 2-shotted when other players who is the same class as you, on a meta build in Plat1 or Plat 2, clearly don't.

I wouldn't assume that people who play GW2 PvP are also making the same mistakes you make. Every single class in this game can hit G3+ every single season. If you struggle to go beyond Gold1 then YOU are the issue. Not the game.

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Dont take this personal please! i like you! i am just trying to open your eyes here.

I think its crazy funny, how you think playing bad on these specs gets you anywhere. For example, lets take the ol burstscrapper you were talking about.    You need to understand that they die the second they dont dodge or block even a single condiburst, because they have exactly 0 ways of dealing with condis.

If your build can NOT punish people for doing mistakes... its more a sign that your build is severly lacking damage.... and not that the enemy´s builds are braindead strong.

 

No offense... but removing the dodge is the single worst idea i have heard in a long time.   And you argument makes exactly 0 sense. Your whole argument boils down to:

->i cant kill the enemy even when they do a mistake and straight up eat my damage, but at the same time i am also not tanky enough to take a burst, when i do the mistake.<-

and your solution is... to remove dodgerolls!? 😵

When i hear the term "sustained-Damage"  i already see you running your selfmade halfbunker-halfsupport Ventaribuild, trying to slowly widdle down your enemys, while doing 300 dmg torment ticks and 250 bleed on top... and then wondering why you simply explode when facing a real build.

 Its a tough pill to swallow.... but your build is just not good... atleast not in this meta.   If anything you should be advocating buffs to your own build. 

But creating arguments around the fact, you cant even kill a burstspec when it facetanks you.... and then wanting to change the whole combatdesign of gw2 because of that.... argh.... idk man XD 

correct me if i am wrong... but i think this is exactly what is happening.     

 

Furthermore, your anticipated change, will actually have the exact opposite outcome than what you think will happen.

removing the dodgemechanic, would dump down gw2s skill ceiling EVEN more, and not increase it.  It would simply turn gw2 into a dps/healing check.... who can dish out the most dps, while also healing the enemys DPS.   

It would literally result in 2 opponents standing infront of eachother hammering buttons, and praying the other one dies first XD

I hope you see the flaw here.

You are missing the point. My idea is that if the punishment for missing dodges is not "relatively equall" acorss specs.. then the dodge system is now a descriminatory factor to many specs (which it is). In that case you do 2 things. 1: Make all specs rely on active, concious mitigation so that mistakes can be punished via lack of active mitigation (which includes dodge) OR 2: Remove dodges and give all specs the low bar face tank or front loaded mechanics (like scourge, warrior, gaurd etc). Your notion that if a spec can't kill something, it simply lacks damage is not a good one. There are burst specs, and there are sustained damage-moderate sustain specs, then there are specs that do low damage but have high sustain. These are literal playstyles.. and gives a level of spec diversity that Gw2 likes to pretend it encourages.

 

Now let me distignuish active mitigation. I'm playing D/D ele, I engage a warrior, and dodge his opener, he then eats my CC. He breaks that CC and is then rewarded with a 2,3? second immunity to damage. That is not active mitigation, infact.. that is actually rewarding the warrior for failing to dodge/block. Ele has arcane shield fine, but you know that you have to pop the arcane shield at the right time, and moniter it, be ready to dodge/get out, as it gets shreded. That is active mitigation.

 

Other specs are doing the same brainless "active mitigation", SB, virt etc. They can pop invulns/immunes that have a set duration, this removes any need to monitor the uptime of said abilitys, so during those durations.. just faceroll nuke. Now ofc, activating such invulns on those specs is more proactive, but the actual use of them is simply press and forget "Oh kitten im taking damage, pop invuln, never think about dodging till it fades". Essentailly.. arcane shield is the way to go with any form of bock that allows you to continue to attack.. it is active mitigation, and active monitoring across its duration. The other forms of block/immunes where you are unable to attack back are fine as they are. With those types, not taking damage comes with the completely balanced downside of not doing damage. However, specs that could essentially spam blocks all day, would be broken.. unkillable, annoying to fight, similar to BS that essentially spams shield no matter what it presses.

 

You made comments on scrapper, I will respond to that, and any burst spec like it (including ele). Such burst specs are designed to get the jump, which puts the other person on the back foot. The other person, for the next 5-10 second or so.. has to get everything right or they die. The downside for that, is if you as the burst spec, fail your burst, you should now fold. The very concept of being able instantly aquire the front foot.. have the chance to kill a player before they can respond (or if they make a mistake) needs to be hard balanced by the fact you die when you fail. Surely you agree with that? Or else you end up with DD thief.. high mobility low risk game play, which bottlenecks the thiefs sustain for obious reasons. People who expect to not die after failing their burst are basically spoiled snowflakes.. want all of the rewards and none of the consequence.

However, with the amount of specs that spew out invuln/blocks while dmging back (burst specs and point holders), that counter balance is now gone. So again, on ele or rev, I will be punished fast for not being able to dodge, but the shear amount of specs that can simply pop a durational invuln/block, or have trait/passive mechanics that allow them to face tank, is simply astonishing.. when you consider that a lot of such specs have a low skill floor, yet have the effectiveness of moderate/high skill floor specs. Its truly absurd.

 

Btw scrapper burst was not hard to do, and SB is even easier, along with zerker condi bombs. The burst specs have systamatically got easier, and easier.. which means putting people on the back foot takes 0 effort... people on the back foot don't do as much damage (unless invuln spam), which means the agressor can get by with poorer dodge skill. You think the average scrapper/sb is going to be able to pull off a burst jump with ele, 12k hp,  an arcane shield, no dodge skill?

 

SB jumping from stealth, and litterally 70% of its damage comes from track-evade and auto lock mechanics, never has the front foot been easier. Who is going to suffer the most for bad dodging? ele or sb?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[vilesoldier.9826]

31 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Such burst specs are designed to get the jump, which puts the other person on the back foot. The other person, for the next 5-10 second or so.. has to get everything right or they die. The downside for that, is if you as the burst spec, fail your burst, you should now fold. The very concept of being able instantly aquire the front foot.. have the chance to kill a player before they can respond (or if they make a mistake) needs to be hard balanced by the fact you die when you fail. Surely you agree with that?

 

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

You need to understand that they die the second they dont dodge or block even a single condiburst, because they have exactly 0 ways of dealing with condis.

 

blud is just talking to himself not even reading xd

[Flowki.7194]

21 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

 

blud is just talking to himself not even reading xd

Thats ironic, becuase you clearly didnt read what I posted. The front foot ensures specs withought invuln while attacking, are in full defense mode. You think im doing damage back to a chrono/SB who just jumped? when they load up with stability or have access to invuln?. Give over.. if what you are saying was remotely true, burst specs would be extinct.

 

Scrapper when it was most in use, and current SB, jump from stealth, with multiple hard and soft CC, along with AOE, track, evade, and lock on damage, which ensures the front foot > high pressure = less reason to dodge, becuase the affected player is garuteed doing less damage (unless immune attack).  Further than that, most power and a lot of condi specs suffer to a condi bomb as if zerker akeem isnt an ongoing kitten problem.

 

Btw I put you on ignore, I rememeber you now, youre that guy who takes everything out of context and uses that to get personal. No time for your type, sorry.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194