Ranger damage is ridiculous high - when its getting toned down? [Merged]

[zyra.7860]

Rangers been broken for month now and nothing being done. When you take look at ranger's damage? Its getting ridiculous high bursts with pig pet's maul (10k) combined with CC + immob after that which prevents counterplay. Also warhorn #4 eats 80% of your hp when ranger just uses sic em and one wolf pack same time. Recent sword buffs seem to be also little too much since skills #2 and #3 both hit 4-5k and u can cast them in row.

So when this new FotM class is getting balanced? I know certain guy does his everything to "damage control" this situation to avoid nerfs but ranger needs to be checked.

[Sahne.6950]

Sword Damage is WAYYY to high...

Also the Boar f1 has the same powercoeff in pvp than it has in PvE....

 Boar maul: Damage : 584 x(2.2)

for example:  

Dragonstooth: Damage  488 x(1.33)

or

Arcing slice  Damage 489 x(1.213)

 

Now you add a littlebit of "Sic em" ontop... and you can burst people for 80% of their healthbar out of stealth.

 Its pretty clear what needs to happen.

i just hope they dont kitten on the whole of ranger profession when nerfing this, like they did with signetcata....   all it takes is fixing the damage coeffs...

Edited August 11, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Meanwhile, me wondering when people will figure out the one shot Pokémon build

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Sword Damage is WAYYY to high...

Also the Boar f1 has the same powercoeff in pvp than it has in PvE....

 Boar maul: Damage : 584 x(2.2)

for example:  

Dragonstooth: Damage  488 x(1.33)  

or

Arcing slice  Damage 489 x(1.213)

 

Now you add a littlebit of "Sic em" ontop... and you can burst people for 80% of their healthbar out of stealth.

 

 Its pretty clear what needs to happen.

 

i just hope they dont kitten on the whole of ranger profession when nerfing this, like they did with signetcata....   all it takes is fixing the damage coeffs...

And Maul (merged GS) to that combo and you'd just instagib them.

[zyra.7860]

24 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And Maul (merged GS) to that combo and you'd just instagib them.

Yea, its basicly undodgeable 5+5+7 = 17k dmg in less than 2 seconds.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

Its getting ridiculous high bursts with pig pet's maul (10k) combined with CC + immob after that which prevents counterplay.

Careful now, you're talking about multiple archetypes as if one build were capable of doing it all.

The build currently being complained about is just raw damage. It doesn't spam immobs.

2 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

Also warhorn #4 eats 80% of your hp when ranger just uses sic em and one wolf pack same time.

Yeah it's really no different than other specs out there like Scrapper or Tool Holo. These specs can also 100-0 you with 2 buttons.

2 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

Recent sword buffs seem to be also little too much since skills #2 and #3 both hit 4-5k and u can cast them in row.

Sword damage is a bit too high, but most of the excess damage, I guarantee you, is coming from the amazing amount of might stacking that this build brings.

 

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i just hope they dont kitten on the whole of ranger profession when nerfing this, like they did with signetcata....   all it takes is fixing the damage coeffs...

They need to straight get rid of at least about 50% - 75% of the might generation it gets.

Sword coefficients & Pig Maul need to go down. Pig Maul needs massive coefficient reduction. For some reason it's dealing much higher damage than Worldly Impact.

But I'm telling you guys, if you don't reduce that might stacking, they will just come back with another build that deals virtually the same damage. I had recently demonstrated it on stream with a condi Soulbeast variant. You can do the same exact thing while running Grieving with Condis, just come out of stealth with a condi bomb one-shot that is mega souped up from 25 might. It'll hit like a power burst if someone doesn't instantly react to the condi application.

 

Too many people are complaining ONLY about warhorn 4 with sic em & OWP, which nerfing that specific gimmick won't get much done. You could remove warhorn and OWP from the game entirely and they'll still come back at you with sword/axe greatsword and entangle as an elite so you can't move when they land 2shot combos on you with every swing they have. If they slowed down and actually thought about whatt makes that build truly dangerous, they'd realize it is the constant applied offensive pressure, not the gimmick that's easy enough to avoid.

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah it's really no different than other specs out there like Scrapper or Tool Holo. These specs can also 100-0 you with 2 buttons.

Errr what? How is a tools Holo two button “two-shoting“ you?

 

you get that grenade barrage, when standing right on top of someone who doesn’t have projectile denial, does damage in the 7k and change range on average right?   That’s a scrapper’s big hit.  So what second button does the remaining 16k?

[Myror.7521]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 the best of all this is ....... ranger is now another class with warrs Sword 2 Animation but with 100% Hit Chance instead of a Like 10% one..... for real I wonder when they will fix this kitten in warr xD

Edited August 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Frequency.6407]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Careful now, you're talking about multiple archetypes as if one build were capable of doing it all.

Someone wanted ele scepter 1 nerf so bad when only cata (and only the signet nonsense) was abusing it. Destroyed all other ele scpeter specs.

Just calling out hypocrisy.

[Eddie.9143]

Only 11 days until everything changes so dw too much 

[zyra.7860]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Careful now, you're talking about multiple archetypes as if one build were capable of doing it all.

The build currently being complained about is just raw damage. It doesn't spam immobs.

Yeah it's really no different than other specs out there like Scrapper or Tool Holo. These specs can also 100-0 you with 2 buttons.

Sword damage is a bit too high, but most of the excess damage, I guarantee you, is coming from the amazing amount of might stacking that this build brings.

 

They need to straight get rid of at least about 50% - 75% of the might generation it gets.

Sword coefficients & Pig Maul need to go down. Pig Maul needs massive coefficient reduction. For some reason it's dealing much higher damage than Worldly Impact.

But I'm telling you guys, if you don't reduce that might stacking, they will just come back with another build that deals virtually the same damage. I had recently demonstrated it on stream with a condi Soulbeast variant. You can do the same exact thing while running Grieving with Condis, just come out of stealth with a condi bomb one-shot that is mega souped up from 25 might. It'll hit like a power burst if someone doesn't instantly react to the condi application.

 

Too many people are complaining ONLY about warhorn 4 with sic em & OWP, which nerfing that specific gimmick won't get much done. You could remove warhorn and OWP from the game entirely and they'll still come back at you with sword/axe greatsword and entangle as an elite so you can't move when they land 2shot combos on you with every swing they have. If they slowed down and actually thought about whatt makes that build truly dangerous, they'd realize it is the constant applied offensive pressure, not the gimmick that's easy enough to avoid.

So we agree that ranger is atm overperforming a lot and needs to be looked at by Anet.  This thread can be good for Anet to take some advices. Hope next balance patch does some tuning to ranger dmg.

Edited August 11, 2023 by zyra.7860

[Barabbas.8715]

6 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

Recent sword buffs seem to be also little too much since skills #2 and #3 both hit 4-5k and u can cast them in row.

Lol, the sword is trash now. They removed two sets of iframs and a disengage to replace them with two leaps. Now it's boring, unfun, borderline useless, and stupid. Anet ruined Ranger sword just like they ruined Ele daggers, Engi rifle, and War rifle. And probably some other stuff I don't even know about. It's like they want to ruin their game as much as possible.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 the best of all this is ....... ranger is now another class with warrs Sword 2 Animation but with 100% Hit Chance instead of a Like 10% one..... for real I wonder when they will fix this kitten in warr xD

This is actually not true. The sword 3 & 2 animations are a lot harder to hit with than people realize. The pathing is all wonky. For example, they are not effected by quickness because they are mobility skills, and any elevation change like screws them over. This is why people say that sword/skirm soulbeast isn't that great in higher tiered play. Good players know how to exploit things like this. Take Capricorn as example. If you simply stay on the ramp near the side nodes and always walk lower than the Soulbeast, sword 3 & 2 will miss every time. It does this with literally any elevation change. Those attacks also don't hit through objects like Maul or WI does, so you can kite around stuff and they can't hit you with sword 3 & 2. The only way to really reliably land sword 3 & 2 in higher tier is to come in on stealth or + when someone already has pressure on them. It's god awful bad in 1v1 direct engagement.

1 hour ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Someone wanted ele scepter 1 nerf so bad when only cata (and only the signet nonsense) was abusing it. Destroyed all other ele scpeter specs.

Just calling out hypocrisy.

No it didn't. Ele is still seeing good representation from actual Ele mains who know how to swap attunements and use skills other than fire 1 spam. Swapping attunements and using other skills has always been the better play style. Fire 1 auto spam needed to be nerfed because it allowed Eles to land mega damage and might stacking while persevering all their CDs, which was clearly broken. It also allowed extremely inexperienced players to be able to just follow other guys, and hide far away, and deal all the damage of a coordinated burst from some other condi build that actually requires experienced levels of play, but while pushing only the 1 button.

Look man, I know Ele players are still crying over anal cramps, but defending scepter fire 1 auto is kinda silly.

I feel bad for your signet nerfs, they could have been patched better, but this is not my fault and pointing your finger at me constantly isn't going to change anything. I am not the one who suggested those nerfs, nor am I person who wrote up those codes an uploaded them.

If you care so much, you might want to take a page out of my book, make a thread and start prompting discussion over proper fixes, rather than cliche blaming Boyer. I mean I seriously wonder just "how much" these Ele mains really care about what happened when they'd rather point fingers at Boyer in every post, rather than seriously discuss the issue with suggestions of how to fix it.

49 minutes ago, zyra.7860 said:

So we agree that ranger is atm overperforming a lot and needs to be looked at by Anet.  This thread can be good for Anet to take some advices. Hope next balance patch does some tuning to ranger dmg.

Yes, but the non-ranger mains need to chill out. They make bad diagnosis of where the problem is actually coming from and like to propose changes to things that would nerf core/druid/untamed across the board into a state of non-viability. People do this same **** with every class discussion, who don't actually understand the class. What everyone is wanting to nerf is Soulbeast. So before making suggestions, consider what can be nerfed to only nerf Soulbeast. Core/Druid/Untamed is fine. Leave them out of it.

And taking that a step further, even older LB/GS Soulbeast variants are still fine, never were a problem for years. It's this new sword/wahorn variant using pig that is dishing out just simply way too much consistent pressure.

Although I would argue that the build is bad in higher tiered organized play actually, I understnd that it is an OP noob smasher in unranked/ranked mixed queues when there are people with l2p issues to target. In this case it generates downstates very quickly and carries very hard.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Maul could use a longer cooldown and the removal of the reset when stunned. I like to see a reset of the skill on a successfully block. That way it's a counter play option instead of the overpowered option it is now.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just now, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Maul could use a longer cooldown and the removal of the reset when stunned.

Greatsword is fine. Leave it alone.

Things have been the same for like 6 years and no one complained about it.

Your problem occurs when 1-h Sword buffs were implemented, which enabled Warhorn build structures. This centers the problem around Sword & Warhorn performance, not Greatsword.

If you're talking about Pig Maul, that actually has insanely bloated damage for some reason that is significantly higher than Worldly Impact.

[Myror.7521]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 bruh for real it is 100% true. You actually could miss sword 2 on warr even while the enemy just stands in your face xD!

Besides that no GS for ranger is actually one of the most busted weapons this game has to offer when it comes to pvp. In its allready state it is litterly a comb of Warrs GS and Shield just in one weapon. So its just 3 weapons in 1 weapon ^^

Edited August 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

21 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 bruh for real it is 100% true. You actually could miss sword 2 on warr even while the enemy just stands in your face xD!

Besides that no GS for ranger is actually one of the most busted weapons this game has to offer when it comes to pvp. In its allready state it is litterly a comb of Warrs GS and Shield just in one weapon. So its just 3 weapons in 1 weapon ^^

You can't look at balance that way though.

You have to consider what the Warrior itself has for traits vs. what the Ranger itself has for traits, as well as utilities on the bar.

The Warrior class has very powerful defense mechanics built into traits & utilities. This is why its weapons don't have those effects.

Ranger needs its weapons to have evades/blocks because it has half of the sustain effects on traits & utilities that a Warrior has.

This is also why a Thief can teleport all over the place, spam blinds, and constantly stealth, because it has 0 defensive value.

^ This is true.

Also, I don't understand how you can even begin to compare the sustain values of current Ranger specs vs. current Warrior specs. Warrior is insanely ridiculously tanky right now. You can do it on Berserker, Spellbreaker, Bladesworn, and even MysteryMen does it on Core.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Myror.7521]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 warr is not tanky at all. Its Just played on Defence lines only rn, cause it sucks in everything else. It is like you would say "but Ranger is ridicolously tanky" while playing it on a Full Tank meme build xD. For real every other build than bsw,full CC Spam warr, condi Berserker is Not even close good

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

49 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is actually not true. The sword 3 & 2 animations are a lot harder to hit with than people realize. The pathing is all wonky. For example, they are not effected by quickness because they are mobility skills, and any elevation change like screws them over. This is why people say that sword/skirm soulbeast isn't that great in higher tiered play. Good players know how to exploit things like this. Take Capricorn as example. If you simply stay on the ramp near the side nodes and always walk lower than the Soulbeast, sword 3 & 2 will miss every time. It does this with literally any elevation change. Those attacks also don't hit through objects like Maul or WI does, so you can kite around stuff and they can't hit you with sword 3 & 2. The only way to really reliably land sword 3 & 2 in higher tier is to come in on stealth or + when someone already has pressure on them. It's god awful bad in 1v1 direct engagement.

He was referring to the tendency of warrior mobility skills to leap into the entirely wrong direction.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You can't look at balance that way though.

You have to consider what the Warrior itself has for traits vs. what the Ranger itself has for traits, as well as utilities on the bar.

The Warrior class has very powerful defense mechanics built into traits & utilities. This is why its weapons don't have those effects.

Ranger needs its weapons to have evades/blocks because it has half of the sustain effects on traits & utilities that a Warrior has.

This is also why a Thief can teleport all over the place, spam blinds, and constantly stealth, because it has 0 defensive value.

^ This is true.

 

Correct

Quote

Also, I don't understand how you can even begin to compare the sustain values of current Ranger specs vs. current Warrior specs. Warrior is insanely ridiculously tanky right now. You can do it on Berserker, Spellbreaker, Bladesworn, and even MysteryMen does it on Core.

Because Anet keeps:

*taking damage from burst skills

*cramming all the survivability onto defense.

Because defense line holds warrior together like trickery does thief, most variants of warrior you see will be tanky.

That's cause strength/arms suuuck though. 

I wanna run glass but they wont letttt me

Edited August 11, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You can't look at balance that way though.

You have to consider what the Warrior itself has for traits vs. what the Ranger itself has for traits, as well as utilities on the bar.

The Warrior class has very powerful defense mechanics built into traits & utilities. This is why its weapons don't have those effects.

Ranger needs its weapons to have evades/blocks because it has half of the sustain effects on traits & utilities that a Warrior has.

This is also why a Thief can teleport all over the place, spam blinds, and constantly stealth, because it has 0 defensive value.

^ This is true.

Also, I don't understand how you can even begin to compare the sustain values of current Ranger specs vs. current Warrior specs. Warrior is insanely ridiculously tanky right now. You can do it on Berserker, Spellbreaker, Bladesworn, and even MysteryMen does it on Core.

X D
Warrior skills are "average/decent" at best when traited. Ranger skills are "strong" at minimum when traited. The difference widens with Soulbeast, which has one of the most busted utility skills untraited in entire game.
Warrior also can be mobile at the cost of it's damage/sustain potential, Ranger with busted Greatsword has more freedom and luxury with second weapon. 
So on the base you already are stronger than Warrior, but let's add AI pet that can screw over Wars.
Teef has also kitten load of evades on top of that, so it's blinds, evades, teleports, stealth and ccs, that's quite a bit of too much in one package (and even block on derpdevil!).
The only reason why Warrior is "stronk" is because of conquest that requires you to dance within a circle with enemy, nothing beyond that. 

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is actually not true. The sword 3 & 2 animations are a lot harder to hit with than people realize. The pathing is all wonky. For example, they are not effected by quickness because they are mobility skills, and any elevation change like screws them over. This is why people say that sword/skirm soulbeast isn't that great in higher tiered play. Good players know how to exploit things like this. Take Capricorn as example. If you simply stay on the ramp near the side nodes and always walk lower than the Soulbeast, sword 3 & 2 will miss every time. It does this with literally any elevation change. Those attacks also don't hit through objects like Maul or WI does, so you can kite around stuff and they can't hit you with sword 3 & 2. The only way to really reliably land sword 3 & 2 in higher tier is to come in on stealth or + when someone already has pressure on them. It's god awful bad in 1v1 direct engagement.

No it didn't. Ele is still seeing good representation from actual Ele mains who know how to swap attunements and use skills other than fire 1 spam. Swapping attunements and using other skills has always been the better play style. Fire 1 auto spam needed to be nerfed because it allowed Eles to land mega damage and might stacking while persevering all their CDs, which was clearly broken. It also allowed extremely inexperienced players to be able to just follow other guys, and hide far away, and deal all the damage of a coordinated burst from some other condi build that actually requires experienced levels of play, but while pushing only the 1 button.

Look man, I know Ele players are still crying over anal cramps, but defending scepter fire 1 auto is kinda silly.

I feel bad for your signet nerfs, they could have been patched better, but this is not my fault and pointing your finger at me constantly isn't going to change anything. I am not the one who suggested those nerfs, nor am I person who wrote up those codes an uploaded them.

If you care so much, you might want to take a page out of my book, make a thread and start prompting discussion over proper fixes, rather than cliche blaming Boyer. I mean I seriously wonder just "how much" these Ele mains really care about what happened when they'd rather point fingers at Boyer in every post, rather than seriously discuss the issue with suggestions of how to fix it.

Yes, but the non-ranger mains need to chill out. They make bad diagnosis of where the problem is actually coming from and like to propose changes to things that would nerf core/druid/untamed across the board into a state of non-viability. People do this same **** with every class discussion, who don't actually understand the class. What everyone is wanting to nerf is Soulbeast. So before making suggestions, consider what can be nerfed to only nerf Soulbeast. Core/Druid/Untamed is fine. Leave them out of it.

And taking that a step further, even older LB/GS Soulbeast variants are still fine, never were a problem for years. It's this new sword/wahorn variant using pig that is dishing out just simply way too much consistent pressure.

Although I would argue that the build is bad in higher tiered organized play actually, I understnd that it is an OP noob smasher in unranked/ranked mixed queues when there are people with l2p issues to target. In this case it generates downstates very quickly and carries very hard.

Trever just stop, Ele has been gutted thanks to the over nerfs on scepter, so much so that people now think sword weaver is ''good''.. thats how bad ele got, as sword weaver was the weakest specialisation by far, weaker than most other melee too. Good eles always knew how to use other attunements, that had nothing to do with scepter. Many melee specs do the same or more damage/sustain than ele dagger main for less effort, thats why many used scepter.. to lower the risk/increase effectiveness and make ele worth while. Don't know where you are looking, but there are not alot of eles playing now. Plenty of warriors, power necros, soulbeasts, mesmers and DD thiefs thought... all the wash up low skill floor or low risk specs that achieve high damage or sustain for no real effort.

 

Soulbeast makes power necro look hard, who at least have to spam aoes before pressing the big red spinny button.

 

Its a braindead spec. Walk upto sombody, smash dps, if they don't dodge, they lose 20k hp. Even chrono isn't that kitten.. and lets not pretend chrono dmg isn't kitten.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Warrior skills are "average/decent" at best when traited. Ranger skills are "strong" at minimum when traited. The difference widens with Soulbeast, which has one of the most busted utility skills untraited in entire game.

My reference was very specifically about traited/utility warrior SUSTAIN abilities, nothing else.

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

So on the base you already are stronger than Warrior, but let's add AI pet that can screw over Wars.

Warrior should win 1v1s against Ranger builds, all of them, power or condi, any specialization. Only exception is if the Ranger is honestly outskilling the Warrior. Current Condiserk & Bladesworn just shuts Ranger builds down man.

If you're having problems handling Rangers with War, you're doing something wrong.

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Teef has also kitten load of evades on top of that, so it's blinds, evades, teleports, stealth and ccs, that's quite a bit of too much in one package (and even block on derpdevil!).
The only reason why Warrior is "stronk" is because of conquest that requires you to dance within a circle with enemy, nothing beyond that.

No, War has many mechanisms in even 1v1s in FFA that allow it to pull jank and hit through objects with such high vertical & horizontal strikes. It can easy setup jank moments to ensure landing hits on things like Thief when the Thief can't hit it.

I'm not even a War main and I can go onto War builds and just survive forever until a Thief messes up and dies.

A good Thief vs. Ranger though, if the Ranger messes up it can die pretty fast to a good Thief.

26 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Trever just stop, Ele has been gutted thanks to the over nerfs

"wah wah wah, boyer hear my cries, wah wah wah"

k

Can you rehash how you feel about this? I didn't understand the first 20x around, sorry.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[aymnad.9023]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Lol stop acting like soulbeast isnt broken. You lose more credibility with every post.

Everybody would have put it B or C tier not too long ago. Soulbeast was something you can play in ranked but not even close to meta in any way. We all agree that ~3 things should be changed and are very easy to fix but a lot of the posts here are the standard overreactions when people see a ranger on mAT.

Edited August 11, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Everybody would have put it B or C tier not too long ago. Soulbeast was something you can play in ranked but not even close to meta in any way. We all agree that ~3 things should be changed and are very easy to fix but a lot of the posts here are the standard overreactions when people see a ranger on mAT.

I do not care about your tiers and meta bs. There are more than a handfull of toxic specs that are massively over represented in ranked, and all have low skill floors in either dealing 20k+ damage, or tanking 20k+ damage. Soulbeast is one of them.