"why i hate fun"

[ilMasa.2546]

Leaving this here

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/why-i-hate-fun

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[Chaba.5410]

Interesting article.  What was your intent in posting it?  What thoughts, take-aways, and conclusions did you make from it?  I can't read your mind.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah that metric sounds really dumb and i'm glad that john guy disagrees with its existence

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm not in the industry myself, but this reads like a lot of naval gazing.  The adherence to an overall fun score is self-imposed, the definitions being used are contrived.  The revelation in this article is something humanity figured out thousands of years ago.  We've known that the final product has distinct qualities from its compositional elements for about as long as we've been building things.  An arbitrary overall "fun" score doesn't sound like it is much of a problem at all, and any problems that do arise come from people lacking any proper understanding of how things are made.  

There might be some weird, top-down imposed issues stemming from a fun score, but if that doesn't exist then I don't see what the purpose of the article is.  Is the fallacy of composition/division really such a big problem in the game industry?  

[ilMasa.2546]

9 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Interesting article.  What was your intent in posting it?  What thoughts, take-aways, and conclusions did you make from it?  I can't read your mind.

You dont have to read my mind,i found it intresting and i posted it: nothing more nothing less

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

You dont have to read my mind,i found it intresting and i posted it: nothing more nothing less

So didn't have anything to say.  No conversation to be had.  Get enough of these kinds of "retweets" without commentary on other social media platforms.  Might as well be posted by bots at the rate humanity is going with this.

[Me Kill You.9035]

I think the posted because it was interesting to them and probably some other people… no one cares about if you didn’t like it

[Chichimec.9364]

Quote

"People always tell you to your face that the game is fun unless it's absolutely awful. Because fun is perceived to be the most important thing about a game, players who want to please their hosts will at a bare minimum say the game is fun."
John Hobson in the article linked by the OP

roflmao - Mr. Hobson, I've said on this forum and would happily tell you to your face that there are broken things in WvW.  To give only one example, the Defense mechanics are badly broken. What's even worse than the broken mechanics though is Anet's refusal to keep its WvW orphans informed about what's going on with WvW development. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have been listening to the wrong people in your "analytical research". Check this thread for some actual feedback from some of those who actually do run in WvW.

EDIT 1: That article is actually 4 years old. Does anyone know if Hobson still works for Anet?
EDIT 2: Never mind. It looks like he stopped working for NCSoft in 2021 and is currently working for Epic Games.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Chichimec.9364

[ilMasa.2546]

3 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

So didn't have anything to say.  No conversation to be had.  Get enough of these kinds of "retweets" without commentary on other social media platforms.  Might as well be posted by bots at the rate humanity is going with this.

I do understand that the trend is "post and complain about something", i do that alot myself, now looks like you are complaining cos i don't have nothing to say about it?

Chaba...come on: you got too much spare time on your hands man.

btw a we are having a conversation

Edited August 12, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[lotus.5672]

tl:dr

if you want to say something just do it

not clicking on anything

[ArchonWing.9480]

9 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

You dont have to read my mind,i found it intresting and i posted it: nothing more nothing less

You posted a long tl;dr that sounds a little like clickbait. If you're going to borrow someone else's thoughts (especially that many), and expect people to put thought in the discussion, you should really share some of your own. Otherwise, it comes off as a little lazy and honestly you're not really having a conversation at all.

The article itself is a bit abstract. I suppose the point is that putting your idea of fun into the game itself can cause problems because your idea of fun doesn't always match other people's idea of fun, and thus skewing the gameplay in a certain direction. I would say the problems come when some people's idea of fun gets deleted because it doesn't agree with the developers. And of course the staff can change, and have a completely different idea of fun

In that case focusing on game basics and balance can provide better value. If you ask me though, Anet skews towards stubborness; they tend to place their vision of the game above all else often.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

The article itself is a bit abstract.

It's high-level, says nothing about Guild Wars 2 let alone WvW, nothing about the guy's 3 years at NCSoft (His LinkedIn profile doesn't even mention ArenaNet).  Unclear how the blog relates to the subject matter of this forum.  There's sooo many different directions a conversation about it could go here, directions that perhaps were not intended by the OP.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[ilMasa.2546]

4 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You posted a long tl;dr that sounds a little like clickbait. If you're going to borrow someone else's thoughts (especially that many), and expect people to put thought in the discussion, you should really share some of your own. Otherwise, it comes off as a little lazy and honestly you're not really having a conversation at all.

Mate, all i did was reading an old article,i found it intresting and i posted it here.How is that "borrowing someone else thoughts" ? ...jesus 

If you are curious you can read it
If you are not interested then dont read it
If you wanna give your 2cents you are welcome to give your opinion
If you dont want to give any opinion it's all good





 

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

Mate, all i did was reading an old article,i found it intresting and i posted it here.How is that "borrowing someone else thoughts" ? ...jesus 

If you are curious you can read it
If you are not interested then dont read it
If you wanna give your 2cents you are welcome to give your opinion
If you dont want to give any opinion it's all good





 

I did give my opinion, if you bothered to read the rest of it.

I'm suggesting you should too.

[ilMasa.2546]

47 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I did give my opinion, if you bothered to read the rest of it.

I'm suggesting you should too.

... And that's why i quoted a specific part of your answer and not the whole thing. And my reply was about the part i quoted you for.

 I already stated my opinion several time: it was an intresting reading. That's it.

if that's not enough for you, it's not my problem and it shouldn't be yours either in the first place : leave it behind you and move on lol

Edited August 13, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:53 PM, ilMasa.2546 said:

Leaving this here

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/why-i-hate-fun

 

Does look interesting, will have to take a look and come back to this. Thanks for the link. More after can take some time to read all the way thru.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

 

On 8/11/2023 at 8:53 PM, ilMasa.2546 said:

Leaving this here

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/why-i-hate-fun

 

Thank You! for sharing the article. I believe the article is saying that, the word fun is not enough. It is the experience that matters the most.. This is what I have advocating since the first day I posted in the forum of how important the players experience is including to Anet; who should be ready for feedbacks.

The sad truth is, Guild Wars 2 a Beautiful, Adventurous-Explorable game (this is why I decided to not blame Anet Design Team), yet the investing in the players experience...is not there.

The mobs, the environment are filled with increasing control effects such as; pull, knockback, stun, daze including; immobilize, cripple, blind, bleed, weekness...it is just too much. 

One of the biggest Injury that Anet committed was, allowing stealth mechanic to go near-permanently invisible to bypass, exploit the detail interactive environment. 

example;

Imagine being A Game Designer, witnessing a mechanic that prevent the player from exploring and interacting with your designs/details by avoiding, by going completely invisible. When asked, having the player say that it was fun. You tell ask the player what fun? You completely avoided my hard work and effort.

How would that make you feel? How would you react? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xestcRBw-So&t=10s

It would make any Game Designer feel Horrible!, Terrible! Angry!!

 

Lastly, 

"Enable the "but""

"Participants often say "it's fun but..." as in "it's fun but a little confusing" or "it's fun but it's not for me." The second half of those statements can be extremely useful in making a better game even if the first part isn't."

The Community has  done its part. It is Anet who refuses to hear our buts.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Chaba.5410]

The article says nothing about Guild Wars 2 though.  It's all speculative and made even worse as readers start throwing any thought into the wind since it was posted as "just interesting" - like Burnfall suggesting that ArenaNet doesn't invest in the player experience.  Yet how does that make sense when the guy that wrote the article literally worked there?
 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Does look interesting, will have to take a look and come back to this. Thanks for the link. More after can take some time to read all the way thru.

Why waste the time giving it much thought?  OP didn't give it much thought.  Let's raise the bar on quality of conversations before this place turns into a link-share bot site.  Maybe write a program that automatically publishes links here all game industry articles that you peruse throughout the day and think are interesting.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Burnfall.9573]

3 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The article says nothing about Guild Wars 2 though.  It's all speculative and made even worse as readers start throwing any thought into the wind since it was posted as "just interesting" - like Burnfall suggesting that ArenaNet doesn't invest in the player experience.  Yet how does that make sense when the guy that wrote the article literally worked there?
 

 This is the reason why I responded to the post because of what he stated. I will share this quote without linking-shaming him: I hope we do the same. 

"My team used both traditional analytics and HCI research techniques to provide a complete picture of the player experience."

[Chaba.5410]

Should re-title this article to "Why Chaba Hates Mindless Retweets".

Another idea: write a bot that spiders this forum and displays a daily compiled list of shared links.  Bot readers of bot post.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[ilMasa.2546]

3 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Why waste the time giving it much thought?  OP didn't give it much thought.  Let's raise the bar on quality of conversations before this place turns into a link-share bot site.  Maybe write a program that automatically publishes links here all game industry articles that you peruse throughout the day and think are interesting.

lol i love how posting a single link actually triggered a crusade to defend the place from turning into a link-share bot site.

So overdramatic. 😂
We are in an iron barrel: the wvw section doesn't matter to anyone except those very few faithful ones,don't worry.

We'll be the same people posting the exact same things for the next 5 years...sometimes you need to spice things up a bit to get out of that sleepiness building up 😂

And boy, Chaba did wake up lol

Edited August 15, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Why waste the time giving it much thought?  OP didn't give it much thought.  Let's raise the bar on quality of conversations before this place turns into a link-share bot site.  Maybe write a program that automatically publishes links here all game industry articles that you peruse throughout the day and think are interesting.

🙂 My friend I understand your point so let me clarify. I am not a game programmer but I do logistics programming and have done analytics on distribution systems and replenishment systems which included PC software in the past. So to me, this kind of link I will find interesting since I lived the other side of the equation in shipping the final product and trying to predict how many units were needed in the market place. I wasn't aware of this publication so I appreciate the link from the business and developer side personally. So to be able to read info from the developer side while living the distribution side and development from there has a double geek impact in my place. 🙂 Hope that helps, but more after a read thru. As always, good hunting!

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Should re-title this article to "Why Chaba Hates Mindless Retweets".

Another idea: write a bot that spiders this forum and displays a daily compiled list of shared links.  Bot readers of bot post.

Chaba and I agree here quite often. Its fine to link things, but provide the what/where/why in linking something. What was your take, agree, disagree, want to reinforce a point. Don't just link, that quite often happens leaving people with do they agree, disagree, or want to make other points or something else...

It's fine to use a video link to raise a point but take the time to provide the extra details.