Pay to play??? T2 & T3 rifts!!

[Manasa Devi.7958]

11 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

its apply also, buy motivations, get your stuff from rift hunt in 5 days.

I won't be buying motivations. I'll be doing the weekly rifts as long as there are 5 AP achievements to complete, which should be about 2 more weeks, until they add more zones . The essences will be turned into motivations to sell.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Did any other armor get what you suddenly want here?

The Raid armor has so many various tasks, including both, Raids and Open World content -- it was fun to get it, that's why I went for the Raids' heavy set, though I already owned all three WvW sets, because I wanted to experience the cool journey.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that an armor set that is Open World only should include less (namely only one) Open World tasks than the Raid sets, since Open World - with its tons of meta events, maps and possible tasks - is the content-richest part of the game.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The Raid armor has so many various tasks, including both, Raids and Open World content -- it was fun to get it, that's why I went for the Raids' heavy set, though I already owned all three WvW sets, because I wanted to experience the cool journey.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that an armor set that is Open World only should include less (namely only one) Open World tasks than the Raid sets, since Open World - with its tons of meta events, maps and possible tasks - is the content-richest part of the game.

Ok, in an attempt to minimize my needles "blind shots" here, I'll just ask: which part/s of the acquisition do you remember as being cool journey there?

Ah whatever, here's on blind shot anyways! If it's about also needing some meta here or there then isn't this also the case for this armor right now? If you'd only play rifts and nothing else, as far as I'm aware you won't be able to get the armor (and that's not about gold or regular crafting materials). Just... check the legendary armor achievements?

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

21 hours ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

 I made full set of leggy armor, weapons, rune, sigil and trinkets. I never once complained about mat sink. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. 
[followed by weird attempts at personal remarks]

That didn't answer the question at all. And as it often goes on this forum: I'll take that as enough of an answer here.

(and you're wrong btw 🤷‍♂️)

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Nephalem.8921]

I am awaiting the 100 t3 motivation bundle in gemstore. surely they wouldn't pull immortal monetisation. They would also never monetise build templates in 3 ways.

[Kozumi.5816]

Rifts are a massive failure and the way this company works means they will never be reworked or designed based on player feedback. What you see is what we get until they shut down the game, bugs and all.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There are people who are already legendary and are doing this for the skin(s) only. Also, what kind of statement is that? "Oooh, this is merely for casuals, and if it bores you go do more challenging content." Excuse me? There is tons of "casual" content that is actually fun and that would make for a much better experience than Rift Hunting.

But there isn't a ton of casual content that EVERYONE would agree is fun. There are people who think hearts are fun. I don't. So if they're making something that everyone can do, they're going to run into that.

Of coruse, rifts could have been better, but there were disadvantages to anything they could do. If they just did dynamic events, but let people choose which ones they wanted, people would find the event that spawned the fastest and just camp it for the rest of eternity until they got what they wanted. 

Rifts dont' have to be grinded out, because Legendary Armor is supposed to take a long time. I don't think doing the weekly Rifts is such a chore and if you do them, by the time it's over, you'll probably have enough currency to do the armor anyway.. But let's say you don't do all the weekly Rifts. Let's say you do them as you come upon them.

Then you'lll eventually get your legendary armor anyway. Grinding for it is a choice.

[MalekithDG.6124]

23 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Rifts are a massive failure and the way this company works means they will never be reworked or designed based on player feedback. What you see is what we get until they shut down the game, bugs and all.

Wrong, they do things based on player feedback thats why this game is such a mess. They dont have a vision for the game themselves. One of the tasks of being a game developer is protecting the player from themselves and ANET doesnt do that. Its easy to blame a company by saying "hurr durr they dont listen to the community" and you would be often correct but just think about it and you will find out that the reason for many frustrations about this game is BECAUSE of anet catering the community.

Now you must also understand that they are, of course having the last word on what to implement and what not, very selective about which "whining" they cater to. People whine about bugs but they do not get fixed, why? Dead work.

A company turning deaf ears to its customers is one way to get bankrupt but listening to the community is a hard job, as a developer you need to have a vision of your own and be very well versed in whats right and wrong, what should and what shouldnt ONLY THEN you can listen to the community and be selective about what to focus. If its up to players everyone will make their own classes as op as possible(*), buff the metas they used to do as much as possible, make dailies braindead as possible (great way to ruin an ig economy, by pumping resources out of nothing), make legendaries as easy as possible, make other modes as irrelevant as possible... so on... (*Players do influence balancing of the game by the way. Remember Firebrand nerf and people protested in Lion's Arch, in forums etc.? There is a good reason why guardian specs are untouched by the nerf hammer, same goes for ele's and necro's. At worst they are getting a small pat on the hand but no heavy nerfs).

Im actually concerned they will make Gift of Battle available to PVE players without WvW participation lol. So many are crying about that. Lets see, then, if ANET does or does not listen to the community 😉

I am not saying you are wrong about rifts or anything by the way. I also think rifts are a let down, gameplay wise. But I like the material sink part of it. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by MalekithDG.6124

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

There's nothing casual about acquiring the new armor. It takes dedication and commitment to endless grind. That's the exact opposite of casual.

That's not true. Legendary armor was always meant to take a while. Look, at what casuals complain about. Not playing a lot. Not doing events. They tend to complain about things like having to get a gift of battle. They're not complaining about world complete, though they did when world complete included WvW.

Casual players can still do Rifts at their rate and save that currency and get Legendary Armor later. There's no time limit on this. Casual people can still get legendary weapons, but they can't get them fast. I have casual players in my guild who have multiple legendary weapons. It took them ages, for each one, because they're casual.

What's more casual than doing the occassional Rift, or maybe a Rift weekly in a couple of the zones that offer them. They'll get their legendary armor eventually. Of coruse, it's casual. Grinding it is a choice, like it was for casual people who got legendary weapons and didn't grind for it.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

People are never going to agree about what makes a casual player. I tend to have a very liberal interpretation about what makes someone a "casual", but someone doing this "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_armor" SIX times is not casual in my book. Forget about the essences, the 300 provision tokens alone require an intent and determination that doesn't strike me as causal at all.

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

Wrong, they do things based on player feedback thats why this game is such a mess. They dont have a vision for the game themselves. One of the tasks of being a game developer is protecting the player from themselves and ANET doesnt do that.  

Exactly, the "balance" is the prime example of that.

[ugrakarma.9416]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The Raid armor has so many various tasks, including both, Raids and Open World content -- it was fun to get it,

The obsidian armor is for ppl who don't like raids.

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that an armor set that is Open World only should include less (namely only one) Open World tasks than the Raid sets

 Its a open world armor, because the main request for that armor is that requires only open world stuff. 

Also ppl asked for it, said they don't care abot the costs, as compensation.

So u claim make no sense.

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok, in an attempt to minimize my needles "blind shots" here, I'll just ask: which part/s of the acquisition do you remember as being cool journey there?

Ah whatever, here's on blind shot anyways! If it's about also needing some meta here or there then isn't this also the case for this armor right now? If you'd only play rifts and nothing else, as far as I'm aware you won't be able to get the armor (and that's not about gold or regular crafting materials). Just... check the legendary armor achievements?

Okay, my last attempt of communicating my thoughts on this matter 😅 :

It is about doing various things, not just one. Variety = different regions, different activities and tasks. So, what could that possibly mean for this armor set? Well... from the top of my head: meta events from all expansions and Living World seasons, jumping puzzles, map completion, new collections that send you on a journey, and so on.

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

But there isn't a ton of casual content that EVERYONE would agree is fun.

While this is true, I think everyone agrees on the fact that doing only one single thing for months ain't fun. 😄

5 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

The obsidian armor is for ppl who don't like raids.

[...]

I believe there is a huge language barrier issue here on your end... What you wrote is exactly what I said. My point was that the acquisiton of the Raid armor offered more variety in open world tasks than the Obsidian armor does.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[jason.1083]

15 hours ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

There's nothing casual about acquiring the new armor. It takes dedication and commitment to endless grind. That's the exact opposite of casual.

And you didn't see this comming 100 miles away?

When people asked for a ln Open World legendary armor I clearly said that it's gonna be a long grind,because that's the only way to compensate for having it available through braindead easy content with virtually no risk of even dying.

And the word casual has nothing to do with playtime, you can be playing the game since launch, but you can still be a casual, however you're not a casual if you've only played for a month and you're looking to minmax everything and play at 100% efficiency. 

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Okay, my last attempt of communicating my thoughts on this matter 😅 :

It is about doing various things, not just one. Variety = different regions, different activities and tasks. So, what could that possibly mean for this armor set? Well... from the top of my head: meta events from all expansions and Living World seasons, jumping puzzles, map completion, new collections that send you on a journey, and so on.

While this is true, I think everyone agrees on the fact that doing only one single thing for months ain't fun. 😄

I believe there is a huge language barrier issue here on your end... What you wrote is exactly what I said. My point was that the acquisiton of the Raid armor offered more variety in open world tasks than the Obsidian armor does.

I'm doing 25 rifts a week, doing dailies in different zones, and that's enough.  But I'm not donig the same thing at each Rift, because the bosses themselves are different.  Sure they could have said do this event, that event this event, and given us events all over the world. And that would have meant, bugged events screwing people over and it would have meant people having to sit and wait for a specific event.

It's easy to say answers when you yourself are not answering to the community. I am absolutely convinced there is NOTHING anyone could do that someone wouldn't find reason to object to.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 9/17/2023 at 7:08 AM, Lucy.3728 said:

It's healthy for the economy is what I say.

The game and player fun should not be subservient to the game economy - it should be the exact opposite, and the economy existing to prop up the rest of the game and faciliate player fun.

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

It is about doing various things, not just one. Variety = different regions, different activities and tasks. So, what could that possibly mean for this armor set? Well... from the top of my head: meta events from all expansions and Living World seasons, jumping puzzles, map completion, new collections that send you on a journey, and so on.

But this is part of Soto expansion, not "every expansion and living world", again -no other armor does that, so not sure why this one should. There are also needed other activities besides rifts.

[Luthan.5236]

I do not know a lot about the raid armor and other open world content that might be required there - since I do not want to play raids. (And WvW is too grindy for me but I have enough PvP mats to get all 3 PvP armor sets ... I'd just need to grind the required PvE mats or gold for the other parts.)

Just getting it for a skin and complaining that it is grindy: There are other cosmetic things that can be grindy. (If you want a rare infusion where you'd need to farm to pay the insanely high TP price ... or doing the same stuff over and over in hopes of it dropping.)

For the open world stuff and less stuff vs. more ... I think the problem here is: With making this as a sellling point of SotO (which they advertise to new players that might not have other expansions yet) they are limited to SotO and core content. Do we want/need another collection that requires to to core content when core content already has a ton of stuff leading you back to do it? The only thing that would make sense might be the temple events in orr. But just doing the shatterer or somethign like that ... boring.

With making rifts the more grindy thing they probably intend to also make it "easier" (a lot of people seem to like grind and technically there is nothing hard involved in those rifts ... just enduring the grind) since a lot of stuff is aimed at making it easier for new players to catch up.

That is probably the logics here. With even the easiest JP added to the amount of tasks there still would be people popping up complaining that it is impossible to complete with their physical condition. (Though ... an option to add certain other stuff where grind was still possible as alternative ... ? Maybe that could work. Do JP and you have to do 10 less rifts and people that can't do the JP cause of physical handicaps can just join a few more T3 rift commanders auto attacking the boss. And everyone is happy.)

[Ashantara.8731]

11 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Just getting it for a skin and complaining that it is grindy: There are other cosmetic things that can be grindy. (If you want a rare infusion where you'd need to farm to pay the insanely high TP price ... or doing the same stuff over and over in hopes of it dropping.)

You can do tons of lucrative things to accumulate the gold needed to buy the infusions you desire. That's comparing apples to oranges.

[Zaraki.5784]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:26 PM, ugrakarma.9416 said:

u can jump into trains and "leech" for free..

also the materials used to craft it is a sink for materials thats rain on traditional metas: SW, dragonfall, Drizzlewood.

in my bank last time i checked i have enough to craft 160+ T3, without spend a single coin.

theres guys leading T2 trains near 24/7...  more rarier is t3, but last time some guy was leading T3 he said he have 90+ motivations.

Spending coins or using materials in bank is basically the same.

[Shaban.7192]

You basically have to run this content with a group if you are going beyond tier 1 rifts. The cost of a motivation exceeds the bonus reward you get from it. Therefore if 1 person is opening all of the t2 and t3 rifts for a squad, they are operating at net loss, both in terms of gold and time spent earning essence. When I run this content as a commander, there is period of time that the rift boss wont spawn until a motivation is deposited. If my squad sits here for awhile, I try to explain to people that these rifts require a "key" to be opened. I then direct them to the motivations, and ask each person to buy 1 from the tp. After this brief explanation, I've never had an issue with getting others to contribute to opening the rifts. And I've ran 50+ hours of these rifts as a commander.

It's true, the most cost effective AND profitable way to farm these rifts, is by never contributing motivations at all. But, if people start being selfish, I, as a commander will just start charging people upfront to join private squads. I'm sure guilds are already doing this, and other public commanders would do the same. Nobody wants this, so just contribute your 1 motivation when you join a rift squad and all will be kosher.

Indeed, it is more cost effective to spread the keys (motivations) out, only consuming 1 per rift for the entire party of players. That is what I tell my squad members to do. I believe the break even is having 3-5 players per 1 motivation used (at least for T2s), but you're not trying to break even in terms of gold or progression, you're trying to move forward. I'll generally run T1s until I get a party of around 30 people, then I'll switch over to T2s or T3s. T3's you don't make any gold from, only the mats needed to farm for new PVE legendary armor. T2s generate the essence needed for T3 motivations, which when consumed to defeat T3 rifts, yields these legendary materials, ie T3 essence of triumph. This is how the gold sink / money making method works.

Remember, only the person who uses the motivation gets the bonus, but the bonus does not offset the cost of the motivation itself. Therefore, lets say two people wish to earn the new legendary armor, 1 uses as many motivations as possible, crafting all their essences into keys, while the other mooches every rift. The moocher will complete their armor in less total rifts. There is a third type of player, the one who buys all their motivations off the tp. Based on my calculations, this player will complete the armor 3 times faster than the moocher, at the cost of their gold.

[Luthan.5236]

True that you can do a lot of different content for farming gold. Though a lot of "better" farming maps also are non-core stuff. And the SotO armor might as well add other parts that still are costly. We also don't know yet about the last map. Maybe it will be some fun meta and also droppign essences making it possible to switch between the meta and some rifts?

For the motivations and only commander opening T3: There was another thread. It seemed like you get way more rewards when you apply a motivation yourself. (More people applying additional ones increasing the rewards for everyone ... has not been confirmed. But from what I have read it seemed like the commander opening it counts as applying 1 motivation by themselves - giving bigger rewards. Others gaining less essence.)

Not sure though if all info here is correctly available and in the wiki yet. (There seems to be changed info - some stuff removed at the wiki now that was there days ago when I last talked about this subject in some other thread.) Would make sense for a party to every now and then switch between people. Not just the commander opening. Or people donating to the commander - motivations or 1g or so (so he can get something back for the cost he has).

For now I am only going for the title achievement. (One t3 in each map.) Then I guess it is just doing T1 for the weeklies and ignoring the T3 until I need it for the legendary. I did leech a lot so far. Buying one T3 motivation from the TP when I wanted to to one weekly + the T3 for the other achievement quickly to be done with it. (Have not unlocked the mastery for the recipe yet. One of the last ones - finishing that up soon.)

Last map might have a huge influence on the system. Depending on how the meta and the rewards are styled. Imagine them adding a daily heroic chest where you can select between ... stuff where on thing is a rare (T3) motivation. Then prices might drop lower than the prices for summoning stones from EoD have dropped so far. (They are already insanely low now. :D)

[Jhi Kautt.3495]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:39 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

Personally I would prefer a series of interesting, exciting, challenging, and fun activities so that legendaries represented something more than the ability to tolerate mindless repetition better than those without it.

But I get that grind is all but necessary to pad the play time in between content releases, so whatever, I guess.

Exactly, thank you

[Jhi Kautt.3495]

On 9/17/2023 at 4:24 PM, Benjialarue.3790 said:

Don't worry, Anet will surely put everlasting kryptis motivation in the Gem Store one day. 😅
Personally I always do the weekly and that's all, sometimes I'm lucky enough to "leech" some T2 ou T3 rift from others players. 😇

I just quit doing any of it...it is garbage content.

[Lucy.3728]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The game and player fun should not be subservient to the game economy

It's a healthy economy that keeps the fun to play up.

It's bad when nothing has any worth anymore.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lucy.3728